MY BPD friend cannot simply say "congratulations" - do I just let it go?

[CycleBreaker123]

She's a longtime friend - initially romantic but that was very much in the past.   Have seen her through many dramas, been painted black more times than a vampire's fingernails - then white again - blah blah.   When I don't hear from her in awhile, it's because things are going so great - when she has "good news", she's quick to share it.   So this time it's me that has good news to share, actually it's remarkable news regarding my wife discovering she is pregnant with twins - BPD friend knows we have been in reproductive hell for five years.     So I contact her wishing to get together - she's like ducking and dodging.    Then she's going on a "trip" in a few days at 6:50am - like why do I care the exact departure time?   So I take the bait - ask her "where are you going?"    Inquiring about her destination somehow turns me into Darth Vader - like seriously - it's not like I care where she is going - it's just kind of odd that she would need to shield the destination.   So anyway, I end up telling her my news, via email.  Should I be hard on her for not even being able to RESPOND?   I mean, it's just basic human courtesy - "hey we are gonna have twins !"    "WOW, CONGRATS!"    I mean it's not like it take a lot of time to offer congratulations to a friend, even if you don't like the person, it's pretty standard to say something in response, right?      So I'm guessing it's the LACK of response that is the message here - and what is the message?      The only message I can really decode is that she is in a lot of pain right now, I mean I am not supposed to be "wounded" that she can't respond, right?   I'm thinking it's much more of a statement about her mental state right now, then it is a statement of her feelings, or lack of.   Because it's just so outrageous to say nothing, so embarrassing - like who behaves that way?     Or should I be all butt hurt about her lack of common courtesy, and make a big deal about it?   Or do I say something like "get back to me when you can" - that sounds so patronizing, etc, like I'm treating her with truly kid gloves to the point of absurdity.    Or do I just say nothing and let it go for awhile and circle back in a few weeks?    Just seems silly to blow us up over such a thing - on the other hand - if this sort of thing happens on the Housewives of Beverly Hills TV show, it's like guaranteed they go to war through the remainder of the season.   It is almost like she is daring me to say ANYTHING negative so she can declare nuclear war.   

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

what happened when you asked where shes going? you say that turned you into Darth Vader, but what happened? did she lash out? what did she say?

[Tattered Heart]

Congratulations on twins!

Is it normal for her to not respond to your messages? If you were to call her and have a person to person conversation to get caught up on life, how will she respond?

Although it's common courtesy for others to respond with a "congratulations", why is it so important that you need a congratulations from her? Is it her in particular that it bothers you about or would it bother you if another friend didn't respond either?

One thing I'm learning is that often direct communication is best. If it hurt your feelings that she didn't respond, then it's a conversation worth having with her. We have a communication skills called SET that can help us nons share truths with our pwBPD. If it were me, I would work towards having an honest conversation that just lets her know that you understand she is busy, but that it hurt your feelings that she didn't respond. She may get mad. She may stop talking to you for awhile, but at the same time, you were able to share your feelings with her. Here's a link to our workshop on SET. Take some time to read through it, then come back here and we can help you work through how to start this conversation:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0

[CycleBreaker123]

what happened when you asked where shes going? you say that turned you into Darth Vader, but what happened? did she lash out? what did she say?

She didn't respond to my asking where she was going
Finally I texted "it's not like it's a trick question"
After which she unloaded that not even her parents
Are as intrusive, etc.    like she really was waiting to pounce, provoked me
Into a trap, as it were.

Just so silly.  Why not just lie, make up a simple story like " I gotta visit my aunt" .   Why tell me "I'm leaving at 6:50"? Which basically announces she's boarding
A train?   Why be so mysterious about something so simple?

[once removed]

"it's not like it's a trick question"

it is kind of aggressive. it turns "where are you going" into a demand: "tell me where you are going". when someone presses me for answers, i get impatient with them too. as you said yourself, you didnt really care where she was going. she volunteered the information she was intending to give.

as for being disappointed and feeling slighted at her lack of a congratulations, thats pretty understandable.

i have a friend, a close friend, who used to be a terrible shoulder to cry on. hed always say the wrong thing. i kept expecting him to act differently, to give me the support i wanted at the time, that he couldnt give. it got a lot less frustrating when i stopped expecting that out of him and looked elsewhere for that sort of support, and just enjoyed the things i liked about our friendship and about him as a friend.

its kind of like, you wouldnt expect a friend who wasnt funny to start telling jokes and cracking you up all the time. this may be that kind of limitation on her part.

[CycleBreaker123]

its kind of like, you wouldnt expect a friend who wasnt funny to start telling jokes and cracking you up all the time. this may be that kind of limitation on her part.

She's very Facebook savvy - spends hours "liking" all sorts of nonsense on
friend's pages, etc.   so her not saying anything is definitely
A "statement" - a provocation.  Game playing.  I just don't have any interest
In playing.   Just more realizing that over time, I'm just
Going to become more like a parent, and less of a friend.   Like
Give give give and expect nothing back / not even a thank you.  She saves
Of her good behavior for people whom she doesn't feel close to.   ThTs
Not going to get better- it's the opposite in fact.   Over time
Her behavior is just more and more childish to the point
Of absurd.   So do you tell them you are leaving, or just leave?  Telling her
Seems pointless.  Just more drama

[foggydew]

Well, this all sounds very familiar. My uBPD friend never replies to any message where emotion is involved. Seems he can't take it, whether positive or negative. But if I wait till the emotions have cooled, then he can reply, sympathise, etc. We can talk about things then.
You said you had a romantic relationship in the past. Maybe the past is not so far away for your friend, and your news awoke conflicting feelings in her, feelings she is not well equipped to deal with. This disorder is a handicap, especially concerning emotions. If someone is lame and can't run, you can see it and can help. It is difficult for you in this situation, you feel you aren't important, you feel neglected. True, it may be the case. You have to decide if you can cope with your friend's often hurtful disability.
"Liking" things on FB requires no emotional involvement. Dealing with you does. And yes, being a friend often feels like being a parent in such a situation. Don't you need some practice? ( that was meant to be a joke).
I hope you can sort it out for yourself. Dealing with your twins may mean you just fade out of the friendship without bells and rattles anyway.

[I_Am_The_Fire]

I'm really curious.

Why does her lack of a response bother you so much, regardless if it's good manners or not? Why not just let it go? Why does this mean so much to you?

You wrote "I'm thinking it's much more of a statement about her mental state right now, then it is a statement of her feelings, or lack of."  How do you know what her mental state really is or what her feelings are? It seems like you're making an assumption here.

"Because it's just so outrageous to say nothing, so embarrassing - like who behaves that way?" Why is it embarrassing? Why is it so outrageous? Why not just chalk it up to bad manners or maybe she's super busy and move on?

If she's "ducking and dodging" you, so what? Again, why does it matter? You asked to get together. It's up to her whether she persues that or not.

Who knows why she told you her departure time. Why take the "bait" assuming it is even bait? Why bother? There could be many reasons. Again, why does this matter?

"Why be so mysterious about something so simple?" Again, why does it matter? She isn't obligated to divulge her life or plans to you if she doesn't want to. You aren't obligated to divulge your life or plans to her either.

"her not saying anything is definitely  A "statement" - a provocation.  Game playing." Are you really so sure that's what it is? It does seem to me you're assuming an awful lot here as well. If she is playing games, then I suggest you leave it alone. Don't engage.

"Just more realizing that over time, I'm just Going to become more like a parent, and less of a friend... .Her behavior is just more and more childish to the point Of absurd" Why? Why would you become more like a parent to your friend? Only you can put yourself in that role. No matter how much someones tries to force you to parent them, it's up to you to take a step back and stop doing so.

All of this reminds me of when my ex tries to "make me a better person" by shaming me for not reacting the way he expected/wanted me to, for not saying what he expected/wanted me to, for not FEELING what HE thought I should feel. When he does this to me, my initial reaction is "leave me alone! you're not the boss of me! I do NOT have to answer to you or explain myself to you!" She may have similar feelings.

Personally, I'm learning to let go of my expectations when it comes to my ex and even my friends and family. Yeah they may do or say something that upsets me. Then I have to ask myself why it bothered me so much. What was it I expected? Do I feel I need to let them know how I feel if it's that important to me?

Having said all that, how you feel is how you feel. There are no right or wrong when it comes to feelings. Feeling disappointed and upset are completely understandable. I am just curious what your expectations are and why this bothers you so much.

[CycleBreaker123]

I'm really curious.

Why does her lack of a response bother you so much, regardless if it's good manners or not? Why not just let it go? Why does this mean so much to you?

If I dig down, it bothers me because such behavior feels like a few prior situations with her, both ended up with her in the hospital after self harming.  Awful times.   She's drifting around right now, completed University after 8 years of much drama and drop outs, restarts, etc.   Graduation four months ago was a real high point - now the reality of figuring out the next step is looming large - and I just want her to be okay, which I'm afraid she is not.  Disassociations, paranoia, anxiety, lately.    So any weird behavior like not responding to a close friend's fertility news comes with this waving red flag attached - like waving "I'm not okay" at me, and this time I don't wish to get involved with trying to help her - been there, done it, ended up overly embroiled in something that had nothing to do with me. 

That all said, have been reading about how some people with BPD can't separate themselves from another person - so if the nonBPD person shares good news about their life - such good news can be interpreted as abandonment - like why isn't my life 100 percent about her and her issues, how dare I have stuff of my own going on that has nothing to do with her?   Obviously once twins arrive on the scene, I won't have any time for her, etc.    This makes sense to me.    By not responding, she keeps the focus on her. 

[spacecadet]

Congratulations on your twins!

You have a big heart to be concerned about her well being with all that you have going on now. Maybe it helps to remind yourself that you are not responsible for her feelings or what she does.

What would it be like for you to reach out again, say you want her to know you'll still value her friendship (and keep same amount of contact or whatever is true). And add that it would be great to hear that she's happy for you and your news. Your perception of her in your last post makes sense. She may be feeling envy at how settled you are and especially if she has wanted a family. And envy is an emotion many of us feel uncomfortable admitting to, so that's probably amplified with her.

[CycleBreaker123]

Congratulations on your twins!

You have a big heart to be concerned about her well being with all that you have going on now. Maybe it helps to remind yourself that you are not responsible for her feelings or what she does.

What would it be like for you to reach out again, say you want her to know you'll still value her friendship (and keep same amount of contact or whatever is true). And add that it would be great to hear that she's happy for you and your news. Your perception of her in your last post makes sense. She may be feeling envy at how settled you are and especially if she has wanted a family. And envy is an emotion many of us feel uncomfortable admitting to, so that's probably amplified with her.

It wouldn't take much to send her a message along the lines of your suggestion.    Many of the suggestions above have given me a lot of food for thought, and I very much appreciate people taking the time to respond.    What I'm realizing is that there is a good reason for my confusion when I went to post on this topic, and could not figure out the appropriate folder to post in.   And that reason is that this message board is focused on Non-BPD's who are, or were previously, bound very tightly to somebody with BPD.   Either an immediate family member (offspring, parent, spouse) or a current or ex-spouse.     It's really tough when the BPD person occupies such a key role in one's life.    But what about a friend of the BPD?   Well ... .this forum isn't really about "My Friend has BPD, blah blah" and I think the reason such is the case is that non BPDs who have a troublesome connection with a friend with BPD, simply drops the friendship at some point - it's hard to find a good reason to keep putting up with what occurs to me as worse and worse behavior over time - it's like the "closer" the friend becomes, the more trusted, the more one becomes an "insider", the WORSE that friend is treated - the more they are unappreciated - it's like the "tests" become increasingly harder to pass.   There was a time I decided that it's not that difficult putting up with her occasional splitting me and subsequent silences - that I don't have to be yet another person in her life who abandoned her.    But at this point, with such personal demands ahead of me, it's just obvious that I have to let her go - just like so many others have done in her life - leaving only her immediate dysfunctional family to be there for her.   She has had so many three-six month boyfriends, it's like I can set my watch waiting for the new one to morph from James Bond to yet another super villain.    It's not getting any better with her - quite the opposite - at this point she can't even find a way to say "hey, great news!"  - something any six year girl  would know to do.   It's not that I need to hear such from my friend - it's that after such a long haul with her - she can't find her way out of the fog to do something so simple.   A few years ago, on my birthday, she actually baked me a cupcake, card, etc.   First time she ever did such a thing - it was like suuuuuuuuch a big deal - front page news story - " whoa, my friend made me a CUPCAKE",     I just can't do it anymore, there is no reason to continue - it's not getting better - and we are not tied closely enough to warrant the effort involved.    And that's why I think there is no "my friend has BPD!" folder in these forums.   No friend of a person with BPD needs to continue to put up with the nonsense. 

[foggydew]

Well, if there is no section for BPD friends it isn't because these people don't exist. Often with some mixed history, which could probably be because at the beginning of such friendships the wires and borders get crossed. Skip, what about it? There is another site with mixed personality disorders... .they do have a section for friends. I think it would be worth exploring.

[CycleBreaker123]

Congratulations on your twins!

You have a big heart to be concerned about her well being with all that you have going on now. Maybe it helps to remind yourself that you are not responsible for her feelings or what she does.

What would it be like for you to reach out again, say you want her to know you'll still value her friendship (and keep same amount of contact or whatever is true). And add that it would be great to hear that she's happy for you and your news. Your perception of her in your last post makes sense. She may be feeling envy at how settled you are and especially if she has wanted a family. And envy is an emotion many of us feel uncomfortable admitting to, so that's probably amplified with her.

We got together, and I actually did tell her that I found it weird that she didn't even mention the fact that my wife was expecting twins, not even one time, even after I kept bringing it up repeatedly prior to us getting together.   It became kind of a running joke, like every single time we were in touch via email or text, I would at some point say ... ."and btw, did I happen to mention that we are expecting TWINS?".    At one point, she did muster "yes" - but that was it.   So we got together face to face and I put it right out there - like what was UP with her refusing to acknowledge my "good news"?   She looked away, kind of shrugged - finally she said "I really didn't know what to say."    I asked if she had been in such situations before, and she said yes, that with female friends it's different, it's basically required for a female to jump up and down if another female friend tells her that she is pregnant.   I asked "you can't just say CONGRATULATIONS"?    And she replied "well what if I don't think it's a great thing for you?"   Then the conversation became weirder and weirder after that.     I mean, c'mon - it's not like my friend doesn't know how to tell "white lies" or "black lies" as the case may be most of the time.   She can withhold, misrepresent, or bald face lie if needed, many times during the day.   I hardly believe she could not cross her fingers and simply have said "congratulations!" when I initially told her.     I'm just curious if her behavior here is consistent with BPD, that's all.   They just can't be bothered to express even a bit of faux-happiness with a friend's good news?   Or is doing so somehow "losing points" in a game they are playing in their heads?

[Donalith]

Speaking from my experiences, this behavior is consistent with the BPD personalities with which I have interacted. In order for them to tell a "little white lie" to congratulate you it must benefit them in some way as they are emotional-centric or be an established or expected pattern of behavior. You'll notice she doesn't say that she's happy for her female friends. She tells you what you're supposed to do, because it's expected. She doesn't have an established "do this" for male friends.

For example, this might be an internal subconscious emotional dialogue (no where NEAR conscious thought).

- He told me he's having a baby. He's going to abandon me.
- I don't know what's "right" to say: say nothing. If I say the wrong thing he'll abandon me.
- Now he's asked me a direction question. What should I say to be "right"? I don't want to give him the wrong answer because he might go away.
- I wish I had a baby so I had someone to look up to me.
- Or maybe a puppy.
- OOooh! I could get some kittens, but just kittens and when they grew up I could get rid of them and get more kittens so I had someone to pay attention to me and that needed me.

me me me, I I I... .

In order to lie to you and tell you she's happy for you (when she's not, she can't be because she generally can't be happy on behalf of another person) she has to know that's what the required "right" answer is.

Maybe thinking of it in this scenario would help:

You have a six year old child. She's had your attention for six years and you tell her she's getting a sister and won't have your sole attention any more. Would you expect her to congratulate you? Or even know to lie and congratulate you? BPD entities, from my experience, are emotionally immature. You're looking for an emotionally mature response from someone who isn't.


Or... .on the flip side, what if she's not BPD? What if she really just doesn't care and you are pressuring her to congratulate you? Perhaps you are laboring under the illusion than you are better friends that you really are.