Wanted to Post Update Here

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi Everyone on this forum, especially Baby Ducks and FormFlier
  This post probably belongs on Family Law. H filed for divorce, sent a process server to deliver the initial paperwork, but as I don't have a doorbell--only dogs--I didn't realize anyone of any importance was here. I figured it was UPS or someone walking by. As a result, I haven't gotten the paperwork yet, which is just as well because I need to find a lawyer.
  I know some of this post is a repeat of other posts, but I'm really upset, and I need to put it down on paper, so to speak, so I can start processing what Im now about to face.
  I am in my 60s; I have been married for nearly 10 years, been in the r'ship for a bit more than 10. There is a significant age difference (I'm older). I now realize that H wanted a mother who had no power. When I got involved with H, I stopped working because he was supporting me. He "paid" me a fifth of money coming in and we shared a joint account. (we live in a community property, no-fault state, by the way), from which I was expected to pay the bills.
  We have significant upkeep on our home--2 houses, a pool, landscaped grounds--and, as a result, every month, we have received significant income. Because in the past my H has bought $7000 worth of lawn gnomes in a month, computer after computer, which he broke, leaving me with not enough money in the joint account to pay bills, I set up an individual account that he couldn't see, so I could pay bills.
  My doing so led to his thinking I was stealing from him (he also thinks his father has stolen from him), as a result of his thinking this and telling people I was a thief, I filed for divorce 8 years ago. The results were disastrous--someone tried to steal my car, someone broke into my house, someone took down my webpage. The experience, at the time, brought back PTSD from my adolescence. I am now once again in the grip of PTSD.
  This morning, I doubt that I will even be able to live through another divorce. As I write that, I realize how many people are in my corner. I remember my sister and T telling me to remind that part of myself that keeps saying, I can't go through what I went through 8 years ago, that it's not 8 years ago, and I'm not the woman I was 8 years ago. It is hard to keep remembering that.
  He comes from a wealthy family, and I haven't worked outside the home since I've been with him, mostly because H made it too hard to work outside the home. I am only now returning to my writing (I'm a writer, editor, and writing instructor).
  I don't want the divorce although I think eventually I will be better off without him. I am quite certain that emotionally he needs me more than I need him.
  He is delusional and a High Conflict Personality. His "official" diagnosis is a form of schizophrenia with a PD Not otherwise specified because he has aspects of a few: BPD, NPD, and Histrionic. Because of his diagnoses, because of what he's been doing lately, and because I filed for divorce from him about 8 years ago with disastrous results, I am having a recurring bout of PTSD.
  I'm having trouble breathing and eating and I'm really cold and shaky.
  I am doing what I can to stay healthy: having friends over, reaching out, crying when I need to cry, and basically putting one foot in front of the other, but I feel like an idiot this morning.
  I devoted ten years and almost all my energy to helping this man. I helped, in part, because I'm wired to be a caregiver, and, in part, because I really did love him. I thought I was going to die with him. I thought the last thing I'd see on this earth were his eyes looking into mine.
  And that won't happen.
  Even if he wanted to reconcile, knowing what I know about his cheating on me, knowing and seeing the video he shot, I don't trust his eyes to be what I thought they were: gentle, loving.
  And still, I don't want to go through a divorce. I don't want to have lawyers representing me the way they did 8 years ago. I don't want my bank accounts examined to see where I spent every penny. This feels so invasive at a time I just want to crawl off and die.
  Reminder to self: I have my sisters, my daughter, my son. I have friends, friends who just call me and ask me to go out for dinner or lunch, friends who come stay with me and don't mind when I'm falling apart.
  I have my dogs: my old dogs, my young dog, my son's dog. I have my cats, my farm animals.
  I know my strength is my ability to feel what I'm feeling in the moment, no matter how horrible, and then move forward.
  And I still keep thinking of what I'm losing, what I'd wanted to have, what I didn't have, and I feel sad, and my stomach hurts, and I can't breathe. And it feels like I need to throw up.
  I'm exhausted. Please, all of you pray, pray that this divorce moves on with the least amount of drama as possible.
TMD

[toomanydogs]

Hi Everyone on this forum, especially Baby Ducks and FormFlier
  This post probably belongs on Family Law. H filed for divorce, sent a process server to deliver the initial paperwork, but as I don't have a doorbell--only dogs--I didn't realize anyone of any importance was here. I figured it was UPS or someone walking by. As a result, I haven't gotten the paperwork yet, which is just as well because I need to find a lawyer.
  I know some of this post is a repeat of other posts, but I'm really upset, and I need to put it down on paper, so to speak, so I can start processing what Im now about to face.
  I am in my 60s; I have been married for nearly 10 years, been in the r'ship for a bit more than 10. There is a significant age difference (I'm older). I now realize that H wanted a mother who had no power. When I got involved with H, I stopped working because he was supporting me. He "paid" me a fifth of money coming in and we shared a joint account. (we live in a community property, no-fault state, by the way), from which I was expected to pay the bills.
  We have significant upkeep on our home--2 houses, a pool, landscaped grounds--and, as a result, every month, we have received significant income. Because in the past my H has bought $7000 worth of lawn gnomes in a month, computer after computer, which he broke, leaving me with not enough money in the joint account to pay bills, I set up an individual account that he couldn't see, so I could pay bills.
  My doing so led to his thinking I was stealing from him (he also thinks his father has stolen from him), as a result of his thinking this and telling people I was a thief, I filed for divorce 8 years ago. The results were disastrous--someone tried to steal my car, someone broke into my house, someone took down my webpage. The experience, at the time, brought back PTSD from my adolescence. I am now once again in the grip of PTSD.
  This morning, I doubt that I will even be able to live through another divorce. As I write that, I realize how many people are in my corner. I remember my sister and T telling me to remind that part of myself that keeps saying, I can't go through what I went through 8 years ago, that it's not 8 years ago, and I'm not the woman I was 8 years ago. It is hard to keep remembering that.
  He comes from a wealthy family, and I haven't worked outside the home since I've been with him, mostly because H made it too hard to work outside the home. I am only now returning to my writing (I'm a writer, editor, and writing instructor).
  I don't want the divorce although I think eventually I will be better off without him. I am quite certain that emotionally he needs me more than I need him.
  He is delusional and a High Conflict Personality. His "official" diagnosis is a form of schizophrenia with a PD Not otherwise specified because he has aspects of a few: BPD, NPD, and Histrionic. Because of his diagnoses, because of what he's been doing lately, and because I filed for divorce from him about 8 years ago with disastrous results, I am having a recurring bout of PTSD.
  I'm having trouble breathing and eating and I'm really cold and shaky.
  I am doing what I can to stay healthy: having friends over, reaching out, crying when I need to cry, and basically putting one foot in front of the other, but I feel like an idiot this morning.
  I devoted ten years and almost all my energy to helping this man. I helped, in part, because I'm wired to be a caregiver, and, in part, because I really did love him. I thought I was going to die with him. I thought the last thing I'd see on this earth were his eyes looking into mine.
  And that won't happen.
  Even if he wanted to reconcile, knowing what I know about his cheating on me, knowing and seeing the video he shot, I don't trust his eyes to be what I thought they were: gentle, loving.
  And still, I don't want to go through a divorce. I don't want to have lawyers representing me the way they did 8 years ago. I don't want my bank accounts examined to see where I spent every penny. This feels so invasive at a time I just want to crawl off and die.
  Reminder to self: I have my sisters, my daughter, my son. I have friends, friends who just call me and ask me to go out for dinner or lunch, friends who come stay with me and don't mind when I'm falling apart.
  I have my dogs: my old dogs, my young dog, my son's dog. I have my cats, my farm animals.
  I know my strength is my ability to feel what I'm feeling in the moment, no matter how horrible, and then move forward.
  And I still keep thinking of what I'm losing, what I'd wanted to have, what I didn't have, and I feel sad, and my stomach hurts, and I can't breathe. And it feels like I need to throw up.
  I'm exhausted. Please, all of you pray, pray that this divorce moves on with the least amount of drama as possible.
TMD

[babyducks]

Hi TMD,

As you know I have c-ptsd.

It sounds very much to me like you are describing an amygdala hijack.  that happens.   it's okay.

there are lots of ways to describe an amygdala hijack and lots of ways for it to manifest itself. 

for instance, have you ever had the experience of being overcome by laughter, uncontrollable laughter?   where people in the room start laughing, beyond what's really intended by the joke, and then can't stop? that's an amygdala hijack.

it's sound like your amygdala, the fight or flight part of the brain is taking over, that's normal with ptsd.   that's why you are having trouble breathing and eating and are feeling shaky.

you are doing the right things by talking back to the inner voice.   

here are some suggestions to help with the physical.   stand up.   I mean that literally.  stand up now.  and stretch your arms and legs out as far as you can.   take up as much physical space as you can wherever you are.   make yourself big.   claim your space.   that will help unclench the muscles of the diaphragm that tense.

try alternate nostril breathing.   Yes really.   plug one nostril and breath in.   plug the other and breath out.   it forces you to concentrate on moving air in and out.

because of your past experience with divorce, your brain,... your amygdala is a over stimulated, it's seeing this as a threat and reacting the way it knows how.   you are going to get through this.

hope this helps

'ducks

[formflier]

TMD,

     

There are times I really don't like the screen in front of me... .other times I like it.  In so many ways that computer screen brings us together.  I would never have known you without it.  I often imagine your estate with all sorts of critters running around.  Always a smile on my face. 

At times like this the screen seems so limiting, when someone on the other side hurting so deeply.

You poured your heart into your relationship because that is who you are.   You were authentic.  That people are true to themselves yet experience such pain as a result is a mystery of life I can't begin to explain.

If we were in real life I'd stop by with a warm cup of coffee and sit with you a while on your porch.  Likely not much would be said.  Sip coffee and scratch some dogs on the head.  Quietly contemplate things... .together.

I'm limited to saying I'm sorry for the pain you feel.  I'm in your corner and I'm rooting for you to continue to be you and find the resilience to carry on.

Best,

FF

[toomanydogs]

TMD,

     

There are times I really don't like the screen in front of me... .other times I like it.  In so many ways that computer screen brings us together.  I would never have known you without it.  I often imagine your estate with all sorts of critters running around.  Always a smile on my face. 

At times like this the screen seems so limiting, when someone on the other side hurting so deeply.

You poured your heart into your relationship because that is who you are.   You were authentic.  That people are true to themselves yet experience such pain as a result is a mystery of life I can't begin to explain.

If we were in real life I'd stop by with a warm cup of coffee and sit with you a while on your porch.  Likely not much would be said.  Sip coffee and scratch some dogs on the head.  Quietly contemplate things... .together.

I'm limited to saying I'm sorry for the pain you feel.  I'm in your corner and I'm rooting for you to continue to be you and find the resilience to carry on.

Best,

FF

Thank you, FF.

I know exactly what you mean. Seven years ago, I made friends via an online game with a man who lives a state over from me. Nothing untoward. He was/is married. I was married. However, I liked him. For whatever reason, he touched me.

We became friends on Facebook, and it turns out he's about as conservative as I am liberal. And, still, political differences, in my opinion, should never separate people, and I simply liked him. I liked his family. I liked reading about his struggles. I liked him.

Last year, he went through a tragedy no family should ever face, and I felt so limited by my knowing him only through an online medium. I wanted to go over and be with him and his family. I wanted to hug every last one of them. I wanted to simply sit with him and his family and just let my presence be known. Be felt.

Instead, I sent flowers. I sent gifts to the children in the family. I needed to do something. And still I felt a bit awkward. Truly, if he were to walk onto my property, I'm not completely sure I'd recognize him, but the way we were able to connect touched me, continues to touch me, deeply.

You have always reminded me of him. I know you have a military background, so I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that politically you are probably more conservative than I am, and still your story, your willingness to be open, touches me. I respond.

As a result, I have reached out here to you and to Ducks, and I have reached out to my one-state-over friend, who is now there for me.'

Funny, this virtual world.

Thank you for being here, for responding when I am so needing a response, a hug, an acknowledgement. Thank you,
TMD

[formflier]

 

Yep... .pretty conservative guy... .with my political and conservative views.

I have some libertarian in there as well. 

I really don't want to government involved in religion.  I'll handle that just fine in my own home and church of my choosing.  By the same token, I don't want "religious" people to be banned from government or have to hide who they are to serve in public.

I think the military had it about right.  Occasionally there are some chaplains that go rouge... .but generally, at a public event, they will talk about a creator, God... etc etc... .but in a way that that many religions could appreciate.

Same chaplain can hold a private service for his denomination and do so as he feels led to do. 

So... yeah... .I'm probably pretty stereotypical for military officer.  I think most people would be surprised at how many liberals are in the military.  I knew plenty of fellow officers that were "closeted gay" (pre change of policy) and didn't really care, as long as they didn't want a piece FF action... .

It really wasn't a big deal.  I was much more interested in their flying abilities and leadership qualities than... .you know... .whatever turned them on. 

I enjoy debating political things, especially with libs, because it's fun to be right... .   

Seriously though... .just because someone votes a different way than me, doesn't mean we can't be friendly and respect each other.

So... .someone get me a ladder so I can climb down from my high horse before the speech keeps on going.

FF

[toomanydogs]

Hi TMD,

As you know I have c-ptsd.

It sounds very much to me like you are describing an amygdala hijack.  that happens.   it's okay.

there are lots of ways to describe an amygdala hijack and lots of ways for it to manifest itself. 

for instance, have you ever had the experience of being overcome by laughter, uncontrollable laughter?   where people in the room start laughing, beyond what's really intended by the joke, and then can't stop? that's an amygdala hijack.

it's sound like your amygdala, the fight or flight part of the brain is taking over, that's normal with ptsd.   that's why you are having trouble breathing and eating and are feeling shaky.

you are doing the right things by talking back to the inner voice.   

here are some suggestions to help with the physical.   stand up.   I mean that literally.  stand up now.  and stretch your arms and legs out as far as you can.   take up as much physical space as you can wherever you are.   make yourself big.   claim your space.   that will help unclench the muscles of the diaphragm that tense.

try alternate nostril breathing.   Yes really.   plug one nostril and breath in.   plug the other and breath out.   it forces you to concentrate on moving air in and out.

because of your past experience with divorce, your brain,... your amygdala is a over stimulated, it's seeing this as a threat and reacting the way it knows how.   you are going to get through this.

hope this helps

'ducks

Thanks, ducks.
  The "being big" helps. It helps symbolically, and it helps, as you wrote, to unclench my diaphragm. The one nostril breathing at a time I'd forgotten. Went back to it, and again that helps.
  Thank you.
  I'd never heard of the amygdala getting hijacked. Actually, I'm pretty sure I have only a passing understanding of the amygdala. Mentioned it last night to friends, and they referred to it as the reptilian brain. Would that be relatively accurate?
  One thing I've noticed when I'm have a bout of recurring PTSD is that generally moving helps. Sometimes, however, if I'm too deeply affected, I can't move. It feels scary to move, but I can almost always stand up straight.
   You know, I'm writing this, and I'm just starting to cry. I had so not wanted to end up in a divorce. Not the first time. Not this time.
   Now I'm struggling with whether or not to contact my father-in-law, trustee of the trust, before I retain a lawyer. I'd wanted him to be my family, and now that's being ripped away, too. I don't like second guessing what to do; however, I understand divorce is a legal proceeding, and I need to protect myself.
   What I'll do is write FIL a letter, send it to my T/Coach and get her advice before I send it.
Thanks, ducks , for the info on how to ride out the PTSD. I have medical marijuana--tried a new strain last night that helped.
   Thanks again,
TMD

[formflier]

I've done some work on my amygdala in the past to help calm down ptsd. 

Sound therapy while "imagining" a past traumatic event helps "release" those emotions and things that were "stuck in there".

This was with past PhD type psychologist.

Amazing stuff.  I can remember a time when xyz happened, but it is sort of like a factual footnote in my history now, rather than something that "lights the fire" of emotion that overpowers what is going on at the moment.

Somehow the amygdala plays a part in the "self defense" mode of your brain/body.  PTSD tends to keep you "stuck" in that mode... .or gets you into that mode much more quickly than "normal".  Whatever normal is... .

Hows that for a clinical explanation?

FF

[babyducks]

Hi TMD

   One thing I've noticed when I'm have a bout of recurring PTSD is that generally moving helps. Sometimes, however, if I'm too deeply affected, I can't move. It feels scary to move, but I can almost always stand up straight.

Riding out a ptsd flashback, (physical or emotional) is no fun what so ever.   It does feel like you aren't going to survive, breathing is hard, moving is hard,   and my stomach goes nuts.   absolutely feels horrible when you are in the middle of it.

I'd never heard of the amygdala getting hijacked. Actually, I'm pretty sure I have only a passing understanding of the amygdala. Mentioned it last night to friends, and they referred to it as the reptilian brain. Would that be relatively accurate?

well, disclaimer here,  I am not a neuroscientist and I don't play one on TV.       I only know how it works for me.

the amygdala is part of the limbic system, responsible for regulating the emotions, including the flight or fight response.    it was very helpful back in the day when saber tooth tigers leapt out of bushes to eat us.   it's capable of taking over in a second.

for simplicity sake if you divide the brain into two parts, the thinking part and the feeling part, the amygdala is in the feeling part dealing with threats.

like FF said in PTSD or c-ptsd the amygdala gets stuck in ON mode.   Or in hyper active mode.   it's not capable of telling the difference between a subjective threat and a life threatening one. 

when I get hijacked by my amygdala I KNOW the world is ending immediately.   the thinking part of my brain goes silent.    it sucks.

for what it's worth I understand everyone has and can experience a hijack.   

'ducks

[babyducks]

 Now I'm struggling with whether or not to contact my father-in-law, trustee of the trust, before I retain a lawyer. I'd wanted him to be my family, and now that's being ripped away, too. I don't like second guessing what to do; however, I understand divorce is a legal proceeding, and I need to protect myself.
   

what I wonder about contacting your FIL is how this would help you?    what good would come from it?   if I remember correctly FIL has fallen pretty silent.  (yes?  no?)

it seems to me that there is a risk of antagonizing your FIL for a potential pay off of, well I am not sure of potential pay offs?

your FIL's natural loyalties and responsibilities are going to fall with his family, his son. I can't fathom what his legal responsibilities are.    he might decide to wash his hands of the emotions of all this entirely.  if you can only play this card once I would suggest playing it after the lawyer told you exactly what to do.

I've just come from Edie Windsor's funeral where I got to listen to her legal team.   One of the struggles of the legal team was to get Edie to agree to do things that went against the grain for her, went against her natural feelings to enable her to win her case.   

Go ahead and write the letter.   Share it with people you trust.   Don't send it on to FIL until you know what the legal ramifications are.

my two cents.

'ducks

[ForeverDad]

what I wonder about contacting your FIL is how this would help you?   what good would come from it? ... .

Go ahead and write the letter.   Share it with people you trust.   Don't send it on to FIL until you know what the legal ramifications are.

I agree with FF, get the legal advice of an experienced lawyer, capable of taking a difficult case to court if it comes to that, one that is proactive, has solid strategies and a real problem solver.  SPLITTING by Bill Eddy & Randi Kreger is an excellent handbook.

Regarding the repeat of the re-living of emotional fears (PTSD), I recall about 5 years ago there were articles on Proprano, a beta-blocker that cuts heart rate.  One side effect was that when the users relived traumas, their fears were not triggered as much and there was hope that it would help to reduce the emotional impact of remembered/relived fearful memories.  Perhaps someone could post on those early ideas/discoveries have been developed?

I recall one article was in Feb 1, 2012, The Atlantic, "Ending the Nightmares: How Drug Treatment Could Finally Stop PTSD".  The article does mention the brain's amygdala.  In January 2016 the New York Times had an article with more details about research into proprano, "A Drug to Cure Fear".  An internet search will list other articles in other journals.

[ForeverDad]

I'm not saying proprano is the only wonder drug out there.  I've seen other beta-blockers mentioned such as metopro, prazosin and others on PTSD boards.  Consult a doctor who specializes in such things, in case you can be benefited, especially for the short term, be cautious about long term use.

Disclaimer:  I am not a lawyer nor a doctor.

[toomanydogs]

I've done some work on my amygdala in the past to help calm down ptsd. 

Sound therapy while "imagining" a past traumatic event helps "release" those emotions and things that were "stuck in there".

What kind of sound therapy? I'd be willing to try that.

Somehow the amygdala plays a part in the "self defense" mode of your brain/body.  PTSD tends to keep you "stuck" in that mode... .or gets you into that mode much more quickly than "normal".  Whatever normal is... .

Hows that for a clinical explanation?

FF

I think your clinical explanation is perfect. My T/coach told me years ago that there is the flight/fight/freeze response. What led, I'm guessing, to the PTSD and what trips me up now is I tended to freeze.

Now when I have so much going on and so much unknown, I freeze. (Hey, maybe that's why I'm so cold and shaky?)

Yesterday, was quite bad, and I couldn't reach anyone, and I ended up calling the Suicide Prevention Line, which has volunteers you can talk with if you're emotionally distressed. However, if you're in the middle of a full-blown panic attack or a PTSD recurrence, they bump you up really quickly to a counselor. She was able to help until I could reach my coach.

The problem I keep running into the early morning, as it is here (I can hear my rooster crowing and the sun's not even up) and late in the evening, is I'm not sleeping well, at all. If I can get seven hours, I can cope. I've been getting five or six and wake up with my heart pounding.

And today I call lawyers, see who I can meet with sooner rather than later. I've ready Splitting, especially Chapter 7, and I will see how the individual lawyers react and see who seems to get me.

God, I wish I weren't in this position,
TMD

[toomanydogs]

I'm not saying proprano is the only wonder drug out there.  I've seen other beta-blockers mentioned such as metopro, prazosin and others on PTSD boards.  Consult a doctor who specializes in such things, in case you can be benefited, especially for the short term, be cautious about long term use.

Disclaimer:  I am not a lawyer nor a doctor.

Thanks, ForeverDad. My H (soon to be my ex-H?) is on prazosin and was on proprano. The issue I've had with those drugs, especially the proprano, is that I tend to have low blood pressure--sometimes as low as 85/55--and most of those lower the BP even more.

That said, I think it's time I see someone, i.e.: a psychiatrist, because I am having a horrible time managing the anxiety/PTSD, and when I'm symptomatic like this, I find it really hard to think, which will make it really hard for me to make a good decision regarding a lawyer.

Off to start my day, one way or another.

TMD

[formflier]

 
Same disclaimer from me... .no doctor or lawyer.

I took prazosin for a while.  Technically I'm still prescribed it for "as needed".

My understanding is that it is/was primarily a blood pressure drug.  Someone... .somehow noticed that ptsd types that have nightmares or "startle awake" at night were helped by the drug to stay asleep.

I had some nightmares but would often "startle" awake (sleeping soundly to wide awake in no time flat) for the weirdest noises.  So... .imagine the furnace comes on and somehow my brain "questions" why it should be running... .I'm awake and investigating it.  

Basically any noise that I wouldn't be expecting.

Anyway... prazosin worked and helped me get sleep.  Good sleep combined with other treatments helped me get a handle on the ptsd thing.

Since it "really" is a blood pressure drug and since it is taken at night, I had to learn to be very careful waking up, basically get up really slowly, so that my BP would catch up.  

FF

[formflier]

If you are not under the "regular" care of a psychiatrist and/or psychologist, I would certainly recommend setting that up.

It has allowed me to get in touch with them early in some "crisis" or "issue" and figure out "how long is too long" to let something go on.

I have reached out before thinking they would give me sleep medication and after describing symptoms and time frame they advised to give it more time and gave me some strategies and things to do to help get sleep back on track.

Basically said things like "this is "acute" issue" let's see if it resolves with xyz strategies before we medicate it.

I've got a number of sleep disorders, so I try to stay on top of changes or "weirdness" before they go on too long.

FF

[toomanydogs]

My understanding is that it is/was primarily a blood pressure drug.  Someone... .somehow noticed that ptsd types that have nightmares or "startle awake" at night were helped by the drug to stay asleep.

That's my sleep pattern right now. I fall asleep and then startle awake somewhere around 2:00 in the morning, my heart pounding, and as low as my BP is, my heart resting would be 94.

I had some nightmares but would often "startle" awake (sleeping soundly to wide awake in no time flat) for the weirdest noises.  So... .imagine the furnace comes on and somehow my brain "questions" why it should be running... .I'm awake and investigating it.  

Yes, and I've been having nightmares.

Anyway... prazosin worked and helped me get sleep.  Good sleep combined with other treatments helped me get a handle on the ptsd thing.

Since it "really" is a blood pressure drug and since it is taken at night, I had to learn to be very careful waking up, basically get up really slowly, so that my BP would catch up.  

FF

That might be helpful. I was worried about passing out.
Thanks!
   
TMD

[toomanydogs]

If you are not under the "regular" care of a psychiatrist and/or psychologist, I would certainly recommend setting that up.

I'll call my primary doc and see if she recommends a psychiatrist.

Basically said things like "this is "acute" issue" let's see if it resolves with xyz strategies before we medicate it.

I've got a number of sleep disorders, so I try to stay on top of changes or "weirdness" before they go on too long.

FF

Since menopause, I've had trouble sleeping regularly. And now it's become unmanageable for me.

Have a good day, FF.

TMD

[formflier]

So... .I'll send out some of my strategies, many recommended by my current psychologist.

the first one is one I fought... .but seems to help. 

1.  Turn the clock around.  Wake up when alarm goes off.  Do not look at clock in night when you wake up.  Awareness of time will only increase anxiety.

2.  Keep  notebook by bed with pen.  When you nightmare and wake up or startle and wake up.  Don't look at clock... reach over and write down the issue... ."get it out"... .so you won't be anxious about forgetting it... .then work on strategies to go back to sleep.

3.  Not sure if I would be "measuring" your heart or stuff like that at night... .I think it may be kinda like number 1... and increase anxiety.


Look... here is the thing.  You have a completely valid and understandable reason to have crappy sleep.  So... .step up the self care (for me it would be extra stretching and hot baths right before bed) and then go with what you get. 

The critical thing is figuring out when "expected and reasonable" crappy sleep has turned into something more. 

You don't want to "treat" something too early... .but if something chronic has taken hold, you don't want that to go on too long either.

Ever had a sleep study?  I've had several so they can adjust my machines and habits to help me sleep.  I mention this because of the "since menopause" comment.

I would be cautious about doing a sleep study in the midst of an "acute" issue likely caused by life circumstance.

Anyway... I think I've give you plenty to think about. 

Hang in there.

FF

[livednlearned]

Hi TMD,

Nice to meet you, and I'm so sorry for what brings you to the Family Law board.

I admire how you are taking good care of yourself, posting here and reaching out to friends, talking to a coach, preparing to talk to a psychiatrist.

I wanted to share that this board (including Forever Dad) was a lifesaver. The peer support and collective wisdom I found here was unlike anything else I found anywhere else in my life. Advice from friends here helped me legally, financially, emotionally, psychologically. I hope we can provide that same comfort and support to you now as you go through this.

We really do walk these journeys with each other, and I'm glad you reached out to let us know you're hurting.

Maybe we can help you as you begin to consult with lawyers? I'm not sure if your divorce 8 years ago was with someone who has a PD? If not, there are some important distinctions. Picking the right lawyer is probably more important than a non-PD divorce, for one. You'll want someone who is assertive, not passive or aggressive, and there are ways to tell what you're getting from how they respond to questions.

A good lawyer can help regulate emotions, especially if you have PTSD. I can imagine that an aggressive lawyer could antagonize those feelings and make things worse on both sides, including the one that's supposed to be helping you.

LnL

[flourdust]

I also want to say welcome! The board structure here can be helpful in organizing your thoughts and targeting the right kind of support or advice you need. This board is the right place for talking about the nuts and bolts of divorce issues. The other recovery boards are good for different reasons -- Breakup Crises for dealing with the stress and trauma of the separation; Learning from the Wounds for taking steps toward putting it behind you and figuring out who to be next.

[ForeverDad]

I am in my 60s; I have been married for nearly 10 years... .He comes from a wealthy family, and I haven't worked outside the home since I've been with him, mostly because H made it too hard to work outside the home. I am only now returning to my writing (I'm a writer, editor, and writing instructor)... .I don't want the divorce although I think eventually I will be better off without him.

Nearly 10 years married.  If you are in the USA... .Did you know that you have a right to claim Social Security benefits based on either your income history (as always) or his income history (once you have passed the 10 years married landmark)?

For that financial reason it might be best not to get a final decree of divorce until after you've passed the 10 year marriage anniversary.  Verify with your lawyer whether my understanding of the time requirements are accurate.  My point is that your retirement, if his work history is better than yours, might be more comfortable than you figure.

[toomanydogs]

Nearly 10 years married.  If you are in the USA... .Did you know that you have a right to claim Social Security benefits based on either your income history (as always) or his income history (once you have passed the 10 years married landmark)?

Thanks, ForeverDad. I'll write that question down, as well. Altogether, I'll be seeing 3 lawyers, at least at this point that's what I'm planning on.
Because we've been living on a stipend released from his irrevocable trust, I don't know what kind of social security benefits he has.

For that financial reason it might be best not to get a final decree of divorce until after you've passed the 10 year marriage anniversary. 

Based on the divorce process from 8 years ago, it'll take at least that long just to move forward in any direction whatsoever.
If I'm able to delay moving forward--take the maximum time the court allows in returning documents--chances increase that H will have meltdown. It's very difficult for him to wait. And when I say "difficult" I mean, he's likely to act out in a big way.
In my opinion, after all I've seen over the years I've been with him, he is not functioning at a high enough level to live without help. I tried to provide that help, and I think that's why I'm having such a hard time with this.
I put all my teacher/mother/caregiver energy into ensuring he had as good a life as he possibly could. That gave my life purpose (it seemed to give it purpose), and those aspects (teacher/mother) are the strong parts of my personality.
My mom died when I was 14, and a week after she died, my dad started drinking really heavily and was never home. There were 7 of us kids ranging in age from 17 to 3, and I'm back to being that 14-year-old, whose mother just died and whose father couldn't handle it.
I've come unmoored, and I'm really having trouble.
TMD

[formflier]

My mom died when I was 14, and a week after she died, my dad started drinking really heavily and was never home. There were 7 of us kids ranging in age from 17 to 3, and I'm back to being that 14-year-old, whose mother just died and whose father couldn't handle it.
I've come unmoored, and I'm really having trouble.
TMD

   

Ducks can explain the concept better than I can, but I think focusing on separating issues and putting them in their "own bucket" is going to help.

I suspect what that is going to look like is

Bucket 1.  My therapist and my mental health team.  Works on me.

Bucket 2  My lawyer and divorce issues

Bucket 3  Mental health team and daily or regular interactions with your hubby

Bucket 4  Life with friends outside the other buckets... .where you make a point to not talk about the other buckets.

You can likely fill in more bucket lists... .

FF

[Red5]

@toomanydogs, I am praying for you!... .My heart breaks for you at reading your posts here, know that you are not alone in this, many of us here have gone through this exact same thing as you are now, and we survived it, we persevered through.
In my first marriage, during its second and final failure prior to divorcing, I was thousands of miles away in Japan... .a very bad situation, complete failure, she stopped taking care of the children, our home, our financial obligations, like she had before, eleven years earlier, she was checking out, but this time I was not in the States, I was on deployment far far away… I too was most likely suffering from what I understand now to be PTSD as you describe, due to the previous crash and burn scenario eleven years earlier, which of course had a very negative effect, and very permanent effect on my physiological condition as well... .I remember not being able to eat, sleep, or even barely function, .but as my first wife and I had gone through all this before, I knew exactly what was coming again, and that this time it was going to go the full distance to termination, .I remember just trying to stay alert, grounded, focused on the day to day, completely helpless to do anything about it, I remember reading my Bible, even hugging it to my chest late at night, I remember laying in the middle of the floor, and stretching out my arms and legs as far as I could, I remember the shaking, which I now identify as panic attacks... .I remember night sweats, I remember nausea, .I remember complete and gripping fear of what was going to happen to our marriage, our life, our family… I remember pacing the floor, back and forth, I remember running around the Iwakuni air station sea wall, in the freezing cold late at night, so as to try and ward off the endless feeling of hopelessness, Everyone in my squadron knew I was up a tree, at the end of my rope, and they helped me as best they could by constantly engaging me, I put up a good front, and did my job, but I was a shell inside, but I got through all of that, the calendar ran out and we came back to the States, and I dealt with the dissolution of the marriage as best I could, I became every mechanical, and un-feeling towards my soon to be ex-wife, and in the end, I took back the reigns of finances, financial obligations, got control back again, and survived with my career, my children, and my sanity all intact, and went forward to become as single father of three teenagers, and we moved on from all of that… and you will as well, my best advice is to take as best of care of yourself as you can, engage your friends constantly, make a “plan of action, and milestones to accomplish, ie’ financial security, a support network as you have here, find ways to occupy your mind, your thoughts, find a way of physical release, walking, running, or interactive hobbies. Get out of the house, and be around others (friends) as much as you can, this is very important, I think the key is to make your mind as healthy and secure (so to speak) as you can, make a plan, make lots of plans… Stay busy as much as you can… Come here and vent, engage with a few very close friends (confidentiality), build your inner emotional (and spiritual) strength, and take good care of yourself… as time passes you will get stronger, but it will take time... .hope all this may help a little, and we will all be praying for you !  v/r Red5

[ForeverDad]

In my opinion, after all I've seen over the years I've been with him, he is not functioning at a high enough level to live without help.

While you can always state how well you acted in the marriage, trying your best to get the bills paid, etc... .your lawyer will most likely advise you not to say things that would make him appear unable to care for himself.  He's an adult, you need to let him wear his big boy shoes.  While it may sound ridiculous, considering he has a trust supporting him, you don't want the court to have even a wisp of a thought to have you provide spousal support or alimony.  Believe me, his lawyer(s) will try to twist history and reality to cast him as the victim.

I don't know whether you have any rights to a portion of his trust post-marriage but don't ignore that option if your lawyer says it's possible.

[toomanydogs]

   

Ducks can explain the concept better than I can, but I think focusing on separating issues and putting them in their "own bucket" is going to help.

I suspect what that is going to look like is

Bucket 1.  My therapist and my mental health team.  Works on me.

Bucket 2  My lawyer and divorce issues

Bucket 3  Mental health team and daily or regular interactions with your hubby

Bucket 4  Life with friends outside the other buckets... .where you make a point to not talk about the other buckets.

You can likely fill in more bucket lists... .

FF

Thanks, FormFlier!
One of the things I just mentioned last week to my T/coach was that I couldn't handle the onslaught of all I was going through, and I needed to compartmentalize. (Seems like buckets, to me. )

I separated them regarding simply the breakup of the marriage, and they looked like this:

1. The grief of losing what I thought I had.
2. The grief from the past that's intruding.
3. The anger at what my H has done, regarding cheating and spreading lies.
4. The PTSD from the time before.

Now, thanks to your suggestions, I have ways of keeping myself as sane as I can and as close to happy as I can:

1. Relying/leaning on friends. I am unbelievably lucky in this regard.
2. Relying/leaning on my sisters. Again, I am unbelievably lucky.
3. Letting my kids (grown) know some of how I'm feeling.
4. Relying on my T/coach, and psychiatrist when I get one.
5. Relying on whatever lawyer I choose.
6. Posting on BPD
7. Not remaining in an embittered mode. (A little hard, but not impossible.  )
8. Trying not to be paranoid of everyone's motives.

I have a friend coming over this evening. This morning a friend gave me a facial, then I had a makeover at the cosmetic store. Look pretty darn good for an old lady.

I came home, another friend was here. I vented. She hugged me.

The mornings and late nights are by far the worst. However, I do have a fairly good appreciation of my strength. I have been through a lot in my life. I'm not wanting to go through a divorce, but that would appear to have been taken out of my hands. I will persevere and eventually thrive.

Thank you,
TMD

[formflier]

We had similar days. 

I went by an old military barber.  Talked for hours with other guys there.  Got a low and tight.

Shaved with straight razor.  Very clean cut... .   

FF

[toomanydogs]

@toomanydogs, I am praying for you! ... .My heart breaks for you at reading your posts here, know that you are not alone in this, many of us here have gone through this exact same thing as you are now, and we survived it, we persevered through.
In my first marriage, during its second and final failure prior to divorcing, I was thousands of miles away in Japan ... .a very bad situation, complete failure, she stopped taking care of the children, our home, our financial obligations, like she had before, eleven years earlier, she was checking out, but this time I was not in the States, I was on deployment far far away … I too was most likely suffering from what I understand now to be PTSD as you describe, due to the previous crash and burn scenario eleven years earlier, which of course had a very negative effect, and very permanent effect on my physiological condition as well ... .I remember not being able to eat, sleep, or even barely function, ... .but as my first wife and I had gone through all this before, I knew exactly what was coming again, and that this time it was going to go the full distance to termination, ... .I remember just trying to stay alert, grounded, focused on the day to day, completely helpless to do anything about it, I remember reading my Bible, even hugging it to my chest late at night, I remember laying in the middle of the floor, and stretching out my arms and legs as far as I could, I remember the shaking, which I now identify as panic attacks ... .I remember night sweats, I remember nausea, ... .I remember complete and gripping fear of what was going to happen to our marriage, our life, our family …. I remember pacing the floor, back and forth, … I remember running around the Iwakuni air station sea wall, in the freezing cold late at night, so as to try and ward off the endless feeling of hopelessness, …. Everyone in my squadron knew I was up a tree, at the end of my rope, and they helped me as best they could by constantly engaging me, I put up a good front, and did my job, but I was a shell inside, … but I got through all of that, the calendar ran out and we came back to the States, and I dealt with the dissolution of the marriage as best I could, I became every mechanical, and un-feeling towards my soon to be ex-wife, and in the end, I took back the reigns of finances, financial obligations, got control back again, and survived with my career, my children, and my sanity all intact, and went forward to become as single father of three teenagers, and we moved on from all of that … and you will as well, … my best advice is to take as best of care of yourself as you can, engage your friends constantly, make a “plan of action, and milestones to accomplish, ie’ financial security, a support network as you have here, find ways to occupy your mind, your thoughts, find a way of physical release, …. walking, …. running, or interactive hobbies. Get out of the house, and be around others (friends) as much as you can, this is very important, … I think the key is to make your mind as healthy and secure (so to speak) as you can, make a plan, make lots of plans …. Stay busy as much as you can …. Come here and vent, engage with a few very close friends (confidentiality), build your inner emotional (and spiritual) strength, and take good care of yourself …... as time passes you will get stronger, but it will take time ... .hope all this may help a little, and we will all be praying for you !  v/r Red5

Hi Red5,
  All I can say is, "Oh, my God." The stories that got posted here are so so similar. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
  Since all this has started with my H, I have asked everyone to pray for me, and for my atheist friends, I have asked them to keep me in their thoughts. I believe the prayers have helped. I still have absolutely horrible mornings; my late nights aren't great, either. However, somewhere inside myself, I find strength, and I get up and keep going.
  There are moments when I truly feel as if God is holding me in the palm of His hand. Other times, I feel as if my Guardian Angel is right behind me, hands on my shoulders, helping. (I was born and raised Catholic. My imagery reflects the Baltimore Catechism.)
  The thing is, though, I can feel the outpouring of support here on these boards, with my friends, with my family. Thank you for your support, Red5, and thank you for sharing your story. When I see the similarities I don't feel quite so alone, if that makes sense.
  More than anything financial, what I want from the experience of this divorce is to come away from it with compassion for myself, my H, my in-laws. Haven't quite gotten to compassion for my H's psychiatrist, but maybe with a bit more prayer... .:D
  Thanks again. The bpdfamily is truly one of a kind.

TMD

[Cat Familiar]

TMD,
My story is different in that I was the one to initiate the split from my ex husband, the "husband from hell". I finally got fed up with the infidelity, violence, financial irresponsibility, drug use, etc. I got to the point where I realized that if I stayed in the relationship, I was just "waiting to die" so I ended it, not knowing how on earth I would make all the crazy puzzle pieces of our life work out by myself.

We had a joint business, livestock and pets, a parcel of land we had begun to clear, fence and plant orchards, and were living in a small trailer without electricity.

After I ended the marriage, I built a small house hooked up to the power grid, hired a company to manufacture my product, moved my mother with dementia into a house I bought for her, went back to school, and meanwhile further developed the land and took care of the animals.

At first it was overwhelming, but I just took it one step at a time and kept making progress.

Now I have a large beautiful house, even more animals, a pool and a garage. I have time to ride the horses and play in the garden. I look back on it and it amazes me how my life has evolved (even with another BPDh--but this one is nicer and much more responsible).

I send you my best thoughts and wishes. It's daunting looking at all the steps and choices you will be making, but just remember, one foot in front of the other. Take it bit by bit and soon you'll be looking back, amazed at all you've accomplished.

   

Cat

[toomanydogs]

TMD,
My story is different in that I was the one to initiate the split from my ex husband, the "husband from hell". I finally got fed up with the infidelity, violence, financial irresponsibility, drug use, etc. I got to the point where I realized that if I stayed in the relationship, I was just "waiting to die" so I ended it, not knowing how on earth I would make all the crazy puzzle pieces of our life work out by myself.

We had a joint business, livestock and pets, a parcel of land we had begun to clear, fence and plant orchards, and were living in a small trailer without electricity.

After I ended the marriage, I built a small house hooked up to the power grid, hired a company to manufacture my product, moved my mother with dementia into a house I bought for her, went back to school, and meanwhile further developed the land and took care of the animals.

At first it was overwhelming, but I just took it one step at a time and kept making progress.

Now I have a large beautiful house, even more animals, a pool and a garage. I have time to ride the horses and play in the garden. I look back on it and it amazes me how my life has evolved (even with another BPDh--but this one is nicer and much more responsible).

I send you my best thoughts and wishes. It's daunting looking at all the steps and choices you will be making, but just remember, one foot in front of the other. Take it bit by bit and soon you'll be looking back, amazed at all you've accomplished.

   

Cat

Hi Cat,
  Another person with animals. Makes me happy.
  Divorce is daunting. I divorced my kids' dad a long time ago; it was pretty easy to accomplish because we'd been separated for so long. My first H had a stroke in his 30s; I responded by taking the "we got a do over" approach, so let's make it right this time. He couldn't.
  But I went back to school, with 2 small kids, got my degree, and raised my kids alone.  We went bankrupt, lost our house, and I understand why my first H couldn't change. I can even have compassion.
  It's just odd and amazing the direction life takes us all.
TMD