UPDATE - mom and diaper changes

[clover]

I talked to my therapist about my mom sneaking and changing DS' diapers, and he said that I need to tell my mom that she isn't allowed to change the baby and why.

My therapist is amazing and I trust his advice, but I cannot wrap my head around this. We have a session about it in a few weeks in which we are going to talk about his suggestion (bc this was at the end of my last session).

I completely understand, under normal circumstances and maybe even under these circumstances, telling my mother and DH and I are going to be the only ones changing the baby. But telling my mom that she was sexually inappropriate with me as a child? I... .am just not prepared to do this in any way! I do not understand the value in telling her. She absolutely does not take responsibility for anything. And I even get that I'm setting a boundary, not expecting closure, but when someone has done something this bad to you and still are sneaky and boundary-crushing, what is the point of telling them?

I have told my husband and my best friend about my mom. It is something that I can barely wrap my head around myself. I can't even really talk about it in detail without feeling like I'm going to have a panic attack. I don't even know how I would begin discussing this with her. I don't feel that she is a safe person (because of what she did!) and am terrified at the thought of having to go over what happened to me only to have her act like I'm accusing her of something perverted. I don't want to talk to HER about all of the weird things she did.  

My therapist says that she has to know the rules if she is going to be in DS' life, because she doesn't know that she is doing something wrong. I repeatedly told her not to change DS, that we would do it. And she went out of her way to simply because I said no, which is how she behaves to me regarding any boundary. An example not having to do with physical abuse: If I tell my mom not to clean something, she retaliates by (1) doing it anyway and (2) going through my things and throwing stuff away. That's the kind of power play crap that she does with EVERYTHING.

My actions around her, including being LC/VLC instead of NC, keeping physical distance between her and my children, not telling her what is going on in my life, are done to keep me protected from the worst of her insanity. It's not ideal, and I realize that one day I may have to go fully NC. I understand being honest with her when she says something rude or is insensitive, etc., but in regards to sexual abuse I feel like it's my job to protect myself and my kids, not sit her down and have a discussion with her. To me it seems like telling a predator your moves.

If anyone has any insight on this or can even help me understand where my therapist is coming from, I would appreciate it.

[Insom]

Hi, clover.  I empathize with your situation because I also have a family member who undermines boundaries.  No answers.  Just chiming in to let you know I hear you.

Do you know if your therapist is experienced with BPD?

[Turkish]

Hi clover,

First,  the board here is an adjunct to therapy, so if you trust your T, trust your T. Our job is to support you.  

Second... .if I had to describe your emotions from what you wrote,  I see angry,  but maybe also fearful of the fallout,  not only about what's going on right now,  but also your emotions (anger and pain) about your mother's inability to comprehend that she hurt you.  Is this close?

To expand a little on the story I told in your other thread... .my ex said that months before I reported it,  then S5 told her that "uncle touched my butt." After the fallout from this later, we realized that we were wrong in not teaching the kids proper names for their body parts. Penis, vagina, since corrected. Teach kids the right terms as soon as they start talking.

Ex talked to grandma,  grandma denied it.  Uncle denied it,  and grandma laid heavy guilt upon my ex for even bringing it up.  I ended up reporting it a few months later,  just after she turned 3, after the second time she told me "uncle touched my butt" referring to her red vaginal area. I knew I couldn't not report.  I didn't trust my ex's family dynamic (DV behind closed doors). To say that they were angry at me is an understatement. My ex told me that her older brother called me a mother effing mother effer   they also said that I was the one molesting my daughter  

Yet two years later,  I get invited to family functions. My T told me they'd get over it.  I didn't believe him.  I'm also not ignorant that our dynamic had changed. However,  it needed to be done for the sake of my kids.  

What my T told me is that doing what I did was like shining a flashlight: deeds were exposed,  no longer hidden.  Those that hid couldn't anymore because of the light.  This is similar to something Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis once said,  sunlight is the best disinfectant.

While you mother isn't doing anything reportable yet,  your instincts are to protect your child, your primary family.  

Since my instinct is to keep the peace,  I feel for you in that you don't want to cause unnecessary drama.  I was raised that way too. It might help to couch this in a BIFF type of statement (I'm having trouble thinking of a Support, Empathy, Truth way to put this).

This article is about how to deal with hostile communications after divorce, but I've found that the Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm can work verbally as well in communicating boundaries,  almost implicitly:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=133835.0

What do you think?

We're here for you to walk with you.  As a parent,  I never could conceive I'd have to deal with these things.  I'm glad,  in a happy/sad sort of way,  that there's a community here where we can talk about these things safely.  

T

[Notwendy]

Trust your gut. If something your T suggests bothers you- then you can go back and discuss that with him. It is up to you to choose to speak to your mother as he suggested or not. It is great that you trust him. You could say you are not ready to do that yet, or don't want to. T's work with us at the place we are emotionally.

Or he may not know your particular mother and how she responds to boundaries. My mother is like that- a boundary is like waving a red flag in front of a bull and she goes for it. She seems to get pleasure from breaking a boundary. She likes to "pull the wool over someone's eyes" . She also lies.

Confronting my mother in a transgression causes her to dysregulate. On one hand one could say this causes fear in me and this could make me avoid doing that, but on the other hand, it does no good in terms of learning. She doesn't process what she hears as something she did. She blames/projects it on to others, so there isn't any learning or accountability on her part. She may feel badly in the moment, but she projects it and then doesn't feel it.

The sad part about this is that it makes any kind of real relationship with her impossible. People are human, they make mistakes. When confronted, or they realize it, they make amends. That repairs the relationship and builds trust. This doesn't happen with my mother. She does what she wants, people choose to go along with her wishes or they don't.

For boundaries, I pretty much have to act like a mother speaking to a toddler. She will ask,or try to manipulate me and all I can do is say no, or walk away, or hang up ( politely- say "gotta go mom someone is at the door" . Negotiation, explanations do not work with her. The other one is to enforce other boundaries- for instance, she snoops through things so we lock personal things like bank statements, tax forms, letters up when she is around as we know she goes through things.

With the kids, my best boundary was to not ever leave my mother alone with them. Someone was always there with her. However, she didn't like changing diapers so I didn't deal with that issue. As I said before, the issue was sharing TMI and yet, the solution was the same. If they were not alone with her, she would not have the opportunity to do something I didn't want her to do .

Even if you did speak to your mother about the diapers, you would not be able to trust she's respect the boundary, so not having her be alone with your child is a boundary you can put in place.

[Harri]

Hi clover. 

Let me preface my response by agreeing with Turkish and Notwendy and say that you need to trust your gut, work with your T and definitely discuss any hesitation you may have re: telling your mom about her sexual abuse against you.  Follow that hesitation/reluctance whatever you feel as I think it can lead to insight and healing when using the insight about yourself to look back at your relationship with your mother/family.

I know many Ts encourage their clients to confront their abuser.  From what I understand, the purpose is *not* to get the abuser to listen, validate your experience or change their behavior and own and apologize for their abusive acts.  It is to empower you.  To feel yourself forming the words, to hear your own voice speaking out and defending you, saying no to your abuser and to take back your power.  Speaking out can allow you to change the narrative of your story so that you can move from the position of being a helpless victim to being a survivor.

Having said all that, I never confronted my mother about her past acts of abuse but I did speak out every time she tried to fondle me, grab me, kiss me, want to cuddle with me, etc.    Every time.  I followed up with acting ie either walking away, holding my arms up, and yes, sometimes I stormed out, panicked and cried and yelled but I spoke up (dammit!).  Speaking out will not feel safe or normal to you.  Change is hard and after years of being conditioned to not make waves, not confront, etc, it is going to feel wrong on many levels... .but your conditioned responses are what are 'wrong' unhealthy, dysfunctiol and abusive to you.  Expect to be nervous, panic, even dissociate (if you do that).  Expect to hurt and feel uncomfortable.  Do it anyway.  It is the only way to break down the conditioned response and unlike the pain and discomfort you feel while maintaining the same old rountine, you will get used to the new healthier responses and you will feel better.  It takes time and practice.

Like you, I knew I would not get any acknowledgement but I knew it was vital for me to stand strong in the moment as she attempted to abuse, control, manipulate me into going back to my old role of taking her crap. 

I agree with your T that your mother does not know that what she is doing is wrong.  People with BPD, among others, have no boundaries and as a result have no idea of where they end in relation to others.  (If your mother is aware and does this sort of stuff a deliberately, I would put that behavior in the NPD or AsPD category instead).  I think the pleasure some pwBPD feel when seeing others hurt, frustrated, etc is related more to them being happy to see the people who 'hurt them' (in their eyes) also suffer... .more like a now it is your turn sort of thing though every person is different.  My mother had a cold chilling gleam of pleasure in her eyes when she felt she won, but I have since learned she very likely had another more prominent disorder.  It does not really matter what causes these people to abuse, expecially with sexual abuse and especially with little kids, it needs to be stopped, and not necessarily with a soft touch of lets sit down and talk about this stuff.  (can you tell i am in a take no prisoners sort of mind-set today?   )

I'm not sure he wants you to educate her about her behavior but i can't be sure.  I would not want to be the one who has to make her see the light either.  I never felt that I had the strength or ability back then (my moms dead 10 years tomorrow) to provide the matches and candle for my mom to learn.  Ten years later, lots of reading feeling and therapy later and I am not sure I would have done anything different.

Hope something helped here.

I think you are doing very well at dealing with all of this.

[Notwendy]

I don't even want to try to get my mother to "see the light". For one, I don't think it would work. The only way we resolved things in my FOO was to pretend they never happened. Mentioning them would cause a major dysregulation. I think these dysregulations served as a "reset" button for my mother and her brain discarded them somehow.

Later, it seemed my father joined her in these anger episodes. I liken them to a little kid with a stomach ache who throws up. Right afterwards, the child feels fine, and yet, there is a pile of vomit on the floor. No biggie if it is a child, or person who does not feel well. Yet, the anger episodes were like emotional vomit. She felt fine afterwards, Dad felt fine when she was happy, and they acted like nothing happened. We, kids, were still reeling from the emotional vomit - and if we brought it up- well we were causing trouble to them. It didn't take us long to not waste time with this.

One odd scene I recall from my teen age years was coming home earlier than expected from school. I walked in my room as usual and caught my mother red handed snooping in my drawers. There was no denying it. My stuff was everywhere. She had no reason to do that. I was a good kid, made good grades, no stuff parents would feel they needed to look for. She was reading my letters and snooping. She likes to snoop. We didn't do texting then- we passed notes, wrote letters.

I was dumbfounded. I don't think I even said anything- but being caught doing something - she probably did this frequently when I was at school and didn't want me to know. The getting caught was embarrassing and caused a major dysregulation. She somehow blamed the whole thing on me. Then afterwards, well to her, it never happened.

All I could do is set boundaries. When she visits, we lock personal things up- letters, bank statement, tax forms. When we visit, we know she snoops in our suitcases. There is no stopping it-she does what she wants. We just have to be sure that whatever we don't want her to see, we put where she can't get it. As to my kids- she was not  alone with them. They are older now and know how to handle her.

IMHO talking doesn't work with my mother - only boundaries do.