Communication advice going through divorce

[Dorian211]

Hey all,
I have spent the past 3-4 months reading everything I can find on dealing with a pwBPD. In all my readings and YouTube watching one theme emerges... .That it's challenging for pwBPDs to emotionally self regulate. The guidelines on how to communicate range from being Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm to validating their feelings first. I have tried both with varying degrees of success, although I have probably alternated between each method more than being consistwnt with one or the other, so that may influence the outcome.

I am starting to think that the former is probably best while going through a divorce and to just be consistent there. While the later is probably better for maintaining a relationship with perhaps a family member.

Does that sound right? Any other thoughts on communication especially when it's constrained to email and txt? Any other advice on how to move this thing forward and get agreement would be much appreciated!

[flourdust]

Hi, Dorian. That has generally been my approach during my divorce. My stbx will send long, often accusatory messages to me. I look through them to see if I need to give a response. If I do, I try to keep it BIFF and just focus on answering specific questions that are needed for making plans, not defending against accusations.

I do sometimes try to work in something validating, like thanking her for her time, or effort, or concern, or sympathizing that something that happened with D12 (say, fighting over dinner) must have been no fun.

And during certain phases of the divorce, my attorney advised me when to be responsive or not -- bearing in mind that your communications may also have the court as an audience.

[Dorian211]

And during certain phases of the divorce, my attorney advised me when to be responsive or not -- bearing in mind that your communications may also have the court as an audience.

Thanks flourdust.  Currently, I'm having trouble getting her to agree to anything, to sign basic things (e.g., the vacation schedule), or often to respond to questions (e.g., do you approve filing the taxes as is or do you want changes).  Pointing out potential negative consequences (e.g., fines, etc) doesn't seem to work and I gather just causes more stress which decreases the likelihood of positive action.  Did you find anything that was particularly helpful in moving the process forward gracefully?

[flourdust]

That's a tough one. I've vented about that a lot myself -- offers that I sent that were ignored, documents waiting for her signature that sat for months.

Sometimes repeated, polite nagging works. Your lawyer can also write nagging letters, though you pay for the privilege.

If there's a deadline coming up (say, for vacations), then you can increase the pressure by filing for a temporary motion from the court. You may not get the outcome you want (and the court may be annoyed that you guys can't work out the simplest things together), but that's really the only direct leverage you can apply.

Oh, you may also be able to apply some leverage by removing any leeway in your current parenting agreement. If she is used to being able to pick up the kids a little early or to casually swapping days with you -- clamp down on that. Follow the letter of the agreement until you get signed legal documents that change it.

[livednlearned]

The BIFF approach that Bill Eddy uses fits inside his view that high-conflict personalities are generally one of the following:

generally cooperative, not dangeorus
uncooperative, not dangerous
uncooperative, dangerous

He says if you are working with the first, there will be more communication skills open to you (including one he calls EAR - empathy, attention, respect, if I remember correctly). It's similar to SET (support, empathy, truth) skills like the ones described in Loving Someone with BPD by Shari Manning.

I remember Eddy saying that if EAR and validation don't work, then move to BIFF.

About getting to agreement -- my ex was uncooperative and I had a good L, while my ex was digging himself a deeper and deeper hole. Gradually I developed confidence to state what I was going to do in the absence of his agreement.

For example, if our son was spending my custodial night at a friend's house, and wouldn't be at the house in time for the exchange, I would say, "Son will be staying overnight at a friend's house and the family will be returning him to my place at 11am instead of 10am. Unless I hear from you by day/date/time, I will assume that you will pick son up at 11am here and drop him off at 2pm."

Ex would respond with something like, "You f*@king c@*! all you care about is yourself!"

 

Then, when Saturday came around, I would tell S16 that I thought his dad was going to pick him up at 11am, though I wasn't sure, and to keep his phone nearby in case he got a text (our order said ex was not to get out of his car, and was not permitted to park in my driveway).

Like flourdust said about his own situation, I never engaged in the drama or defended anything. I just tried to phrase things so that there was an assumed affirmative in case he didn't respond.

When he was civil and did something normal, I engaged him civilly in response. "Thank you for sending son's artwork with him. He is excited to scan it and send it to you."

It does get easier.

[Dorian211]

Thanks to both of you. Super helpful and made me laugh a little. 

I'm going to also try display being "outcome independent" and presenting simple binary choices. Will see how it goes and post back.

[david]

Our order says that we, respectively, have 48 hours to respond to something that pertains to our boys. I give plenty of lead time for ex to respond. If she does not respond I then give her my plan with our boys and follow that.
Sometimes I also say what my plan is with the first email. If she does not respond to that I simply send an email saying I assume you are in agreement and I will do( and I repeat) what I said in the first email after the 48 hours.
I am very non confrontational when I send these emails and have gotten good at that.

[ForeverDad]

If you cannot get agreement, then state what you will do.  Of course, do so in a way that won't get the court upset with you if it ever became a court issue.

I recall when I was first separated and we were only a few months into the divorce.  Our son was still a preschooler and I wanted to take him with me on a vacation.  I handed her a vacation notice.  Thinking it was a request, with her entitled perspective, she said a definite No!  My lawyer said, Go ahead and have a great time.  Fortunately I had chosen to start the two week vacation on my weekend.  I learned later that the police told her she couldn't complain I left until I didn't return for the usual exchange on Monday.  By then I was a few states away.  (We didn't have anything in the order that I had to stay within the state.)  Well, she demanded that an Amber Alert be issued.  I read the deputy's record of the incident, he chose is words well. laying the blame on the rules.  "The complaint does not meet the criteria for Amber Alert."  That didn't calm her down, she demanded an investigation.  The end result was that the investigator was very unhappy with her but did get my lawyer to agree to have me call her and hand the phone to our son every few days.  I asked the lawyer why she didn't just call and talk to him herself.  Simple idea, right?  He sighed and said, Just do it.  It never did become an issue in court.

The court's default policy on vacations was that they had to be notified at certain threshold dates.  I think Spring Break was Feb 15, Summer was May 15 and Winter Break was Nov 1.  We agreed to make it a simple 30 days notice.  Well, shortly before the Final Decree was issued she verbally mentioned going away on Spring Break.  Then crickets the next few weeks, even after the Final Decree.  Then Spring Break week she asked to trade an overnight of my time early in the week for an overnight of hers on Friday.  Guess what, come Friday there was no kid at daycare to pick up.  I called her and she was already on her way with our son.  No advance details verbalized.  No written notice.  She was gone for the week after Spring Break and she hadn't even notified his school (kindergarten) that he would be gone.  Things got a little complicated in court but to make a long story short the magistrate ruled that... .Mother had an "inability to comply" with both the ended order and the new order.

Very rarely did I get agreement from my ex.  Generally she was cooperative only if it favored what she wanted.  So there were times I had to ponder my choices and (1) Let Go the issue or (2) Proceed with what I concluded was right (and hoped the court would agree too if it came before the court).  Looking back, most of the time her bark was worse than her bite.