Boundries with friends

[Lakebreeze]

 I'm curious if anyone has delt with anything like this and if it's even a BPD related problem.
This woman who is my mother's age who attends my church has befriended me and my kids. She calls frequently, texts, asks to have play dates with my kids, comes and then stays for hours, buys them gifts and candy ect. I understand that she is lonely but it also strikes me as being pushy and makes me a little uncomfortable.So when she does come over I try to set some boundaries ie you can come at 10 but we have to leave at noon.
My H however feels that that is being unkind and very unchristian towards this woman.
The latest incident is that we saw her briefly trick or treating with our kids.i wished her a Happy Birthday, apologized that I left her card at home.  H finds out it's her birthday and  tells her we are going to take her out to lunch to celebrate. We take her out to lunch and now my husband is going on about what a kind and wonderful friend she is and what a horrible person I am for being so unChristian towards her. It's odd. H has NO friends. And yet he wants to makes friends with the one person that I said makes me feel uncomfortable. Is this more of a me being co dependent problem? Thanks friends!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[momisborderline]

Hi LakeBreeze,
Wow that's an interesting one. I guess the first thing I would say is no, this does not make you uncharitable or unchristian. As for whether it's BPD or co-dependency I don't know. I do have a question though, does your husband have BPD? How is he at creating boundaries with others? You said he doesn't have any friends, so maybe he hasn't had to practice boundary setting with friends. Anyways, I hope you are able to maintain boundaries with this woman because it sounds as if you don't she'll be there all the time! Good luck to you.

[foggydew]

I could be this woman. She probably needs the idea that she is useful and accepted. How about making a fairly fixed time with her each week, so she knows she has something to look forward to and feels accepted without needing to be pushy, you don't feel overwhelmed and your husband sees that? It could be a pleasant situation all round. She surely doesn't want to feel she is on the receiving end of charity, she wants to feel liked.
This is a common problem in society today; when you reach a certain age you no longer have your own family around because everyone is in their tight family unit and has no time. I try to be super sensitive to not being intrusive -but it doesn't make for an easy or fulfilling life.

[Tattered Heart]

Very interesting. For your H to defend her so strongly leads me to believe there is something within this woman that your H sees as an ally. I think you are on the right track in determining what is appropriate and what is inappropriate for visiting and contact with her. Trust what you are sensing. You see that something is off. Keep an eye out for subtle forms of manipulation or control from her and begin to address those things as necessary. I would suggest reading up on SET in the event you need to have some hard conversation with her.

You mentioned that she is kind of pushy. What do you mean by this? Has she tried to violate any of your boundaries? WHen you set limits on her how does she respond?

[Lakebreeze]

I do have a question though, does your husband have BPD? How is he at creating boundaries with others? You said he doesn't have any friends, so maybe he hasn't had to practice boundary setting with friends.


He is undiagnosed but certainly exibits all the behaviors. His typical behavior with others is to be charismatically charming and idolize people but not be able to maintain it. Example. He let a woman he worked with live rent free in our rental property. He said she was going to eventually buy it. That he was giving her the kind of opportunities that he would like people to give him. Then after 5months rent free he evicted her for not paying rent. And he said she was a low life looser and all sorts of names.

[Lakebreeze]

Foggydew,
Thanks for your perspective. You are absolutely right that she wants to be needed/ accepted. She tells people she comes over to "help me" with my kids. She seems well meaning.

[Lakebreeze]

Very interesting. For your H to defend her so strongly leads me to believe there is something within this woman that your H sees as an ally. I think you are on the right track in determining what is appropriate and what is inappropriate for visiting and contact with her. Trust what you are sensing. You see that something is off. Keep an eye out for subtle forms of manipulation or control from her and begin to address those things as necessary. I would suggest reading up on SET in the event you need to have some hard conversation with her.

You mentioned that she is kind of pushy. What do you mean by this? Has she tried to violate any of your boundaries? WHen you set limits on her how does she respond?

Tattered Heart: here are some examples of what I call "pushy." She wanted to set up a camping trip with us this summer and I had said nicely, that we would not be camping this summer. I gave all kids of explainations. Her response "well have your husband call me and we will talk about it." He never called her at that point, im not sure why.
She says I should feed the kids a certain kind of cracker and buys large amounts of them.
She did stop when I asked her too. So that's good.
If she sees me in the parking lot leaving church she comes over to the car to talk to my kids opens the door and will talk for 45min. Any requests or explaination that I need to get going is generally ignored. She leaves once the kids start having temper tantrums or something unpleasant like that because it's lunch and nap time.
She steps in and reprimands my kids in front of me. If I say "oh I'll handle this" she continues on with " you listen to your mother etc etc." Once I didn't make my child finish her milk and we both got a lecture about how wasteful we are. It was in my house
 She comments often about what a mess my car is and what a bed example it is to the kids.
She wanted to sit next to us at a parade but then complained about what a poor spot we had chosen.
I know this stuff is not a big deal it's just that the sum of it makes me uncomfortable around her.
 
The alley comment you made got me thinking about another incident. My brother is talking to me about this girl who wants to date him. She is a game-er (like video games) and he is a marathon runner. He is telling me how he dosent want to hurt her feelings but that they have no future, nothing in common and he is not going on a date with her. My husband over hears this. When my brother leaves my husband goes at for a good while about what a jerk my brother is for not giving this nice girl a chance. "She is a nice person, very romantic and she deserves a chance." He never met her in his life. Dosent know her or even what she looks like. Do you think this is sort of a similar thing? I made a JADEing comment about how I'm sure my brother can make his own decision and we'll just say it didn't end well at all. 

 

[EdR]

Hi Lakebreeze!

I don't feel there is anything BPD like in your situation, but I do think it is really interesting.

I guess every single human being is different and that is nicely reflected in your example. In short:
-) YOU: you're not really against this woman or anything, but your maternal instincts seem to keep your wits sharp. And you're probably annoyed by her 'pushing' for a role inside YOUR family.
-) YOUR HUSBAND: imo he has quite a nice role. He doesn't seem to invalidate you, but he sees things perhaps a little differently. He does not seem to have any problems with the situation. I think that the fact that your husband has a different opinion on this matter is a sign of a healthy relationship.
-) THE WOMAN: of course, we do not know her intentions. But it seems to me that she is just a caring person and means well.

What would I advise you to do?

Well... .please note that we're living in a time where every contact with children (anywhere from 0-21) could be explained as: Wow... .PEDOPHILIA ALARM. So I would really ask you to try and focus on the position of this woman: it is TERRIBLY weak. So I would ask you to remain aware of that and try not to damage her by even hinting at those things. I would strongly feel that would be unchristian and uncalled for.
Unless you ARE onto something of course. But no need to go there I guess... .

Every party involved seems to mean well. So the most important thing now is communication!
Be honest and true to yourself, your husband AND this woman! Talk with your husband and try to find common ground.
Just discuss the fact that you would agree on her spending time with your kids, but you as a mother want to remain in control here. Try to get to the focal point of what's bothering you!

And then... .well... .honestly and openly discuss this with this woman as well. I strongly feel this is the best option. Be honest! Don't sugar coat anything, but do try to remain empathetic, calm and open in your communication! Otherwise it will only lead to miscommunication in the long term... .

[pearlsw]

Hi everyone, Interesting discussion. I think you may have a problem here! If someone steps over boundaries so much you really must be careful. I can easily imagine the list of annoying stuff/boundary crossing stuff will just keep adding and adding up. Sounds you are handling it in a friendly way so far, but I can see this getting tense. I know if I was stifling my true feelings with a person like this at some point... .I can easily picture you saying something to set a boundary and her not taking it well. What do you think?

I think you may be on to something with BPD and idealization. I notice my BPD partner tends to put people we meet into strict categories right away - he is black or white with everyone, no in-between.

Your story kinda makes me sad actually because it sounds like she has some issues with making friends - she overdoes it a bit perhaps? Can't read your signals very well? Doesn't know how to do it in a balanced way? But it sounds like she really wants to be connected to people. I'm gonna be her when I am single again some day! Hi people with families, can you please adopt me? Well, I am not so pushy.  I'll be more like a sad puppy wishing someone would play for a little while.

By the way I am with you on the brother issue - a marathon runner and a gamer don't sound like a good match.

Good luck with this... .I know I'd be on edge about it.

[Tattered Heart]

Tattered Heart: here are some examples of what I call "pushy." She wanted to set up a camping trip with us this summer and I had said nicely, that we would not be camping this summer. I gave all kids of explainations. Her response "well have your husband call me and we will talk about it." He never called her at that point, im not sure why.
She says I should feed the kids a certain kind of cracker and buys large amounts of them.
She did stop when I asked her too. So that's good.
If she sees me in the parking lot leaving church she comes over to the car to talk to my kids opens the door and will talk for 45min. Any requests or explaination that I need to get going is generally ignored. She leaves once the kids start having temper tantrums or something unpleasant like that because it's lunch and nap time.
She steps in and reprimands my kids in front of me. If I say "oh I'll handle this" she continues on with " you listen to your mother etc etc." Once I didn't make my child finish her milk and we both got a lecture about how wasteful we are. It was in my house
 She comments often about what a mess my car is and what a bed example it is to the kids.
She wanted to sit next to us at a parade but then complained about what a poor spot we had chosen.
I know this stuff is not a big deal it's just that the sum of it makes me uncomfortable around her.
 
 

I call these people "snipers". They get in these itty bitty tiny passive aggressive remarks that sting just a little but are so subtle you feel like a jerk for even bringing the up. But over time they create a pattern of just rubbing you the wrong way. They are covert in their meanness and manipulation. They are often overly sweet and motherly. As she escaltates you may not be able to keep being extra kind. She may need you to be more direct in what you will and will not allow. I'm sure our communication tools will come in very handy.

As for your H and her, perhaps when there is an issue with this woman, you can try to re frame the way you present these issues to your H. Use SET and DEARMAN as needed, validating his need to see her as a friend but also reminding him of his responsibility to family first. It sounds like over time he may get board and the relationship will run it's course.