BPD and Intimacy/SEX

[Prim]

Hello everyone,

First let me apologize if this had been covered already elsewhere but currently I am in a state which is too distraught and upset to check the other posts properly.

My partner has BPD. They are getting treatment for their BPD which mostly consists of therapy, (supposedly DBT) which they say isn't really working because all it does is teach them mindfulness and the cognitive part of the DBT is insignificant. I am also experiencing some difficult anxiety which is being treated by meditation and mindfulness (I have no pre-existing mental health issues).

I struggle on a daily basis which I will explain about soon but currently the best thing helping me in mindfulness, meditation and exercise.

I try to explain to my SO how these things are helping me and the he/she should try them too. But he/she says that they've been trying these things for almost a decade and they don't work for them, and therefor they are unfixable.

He/She has quite mild BPD symptomps so I am lead to believe after reading half of "Stop walking on eggshells" by Mason and Kruger. (Maybe I am wrong and I don't yet understand BPD).

However, I think that maybe I could live a life where I can support he/she in the BPD issues that they experience. But there is one issue that breaks my heart every second of every day.

I've met this person who I adore and love more than anyone else I've ever met in my life (I'm an >25 adult who understands the full rammifications of what this statement means).

This person with BPD has such an aversion to intimacy that he/she will not engage in any form of intimacy (sexual, casual, anywhere in between) such that I feel that I am behind a glass wall watching the person that I love. There are some times when I am able to make some connections with them physically (NOT SEXUALLY) which fills my heart with joy but then those feelings are quickly crushed when anything more than touch is perused.

This is probably the most heart-breaking thing I will ever encounter in my life. Being so in love with someone but not being allowed to be close to them.

When we first became a couple, we had sex for one month. He/she said she enjoyed it well enough but didn't "gett off" on it. But then something happened and now I there is a impenetrable wall around him/her that I cannot get close to without being seen as an awful person who doesn't care about him/her and only cares about my physical needs.

Is this BPD? Is this something else? Is there any hope?

He/she has had four previous relationships fail due to this exact reason, and after a significiant amount of time (6-12 months) where I have been patient and not pressed the issue because I had hoped "I was the one" and he/she could overcome it (Yes - probably the stupidest thought I have ever had in my life), I can no longer continue without anxiety killing me from the insidue out. He/her says they have been trying to fix the issue for almost a decade and is ready to give up because it is "unfixible" (has been to many therapist, sex therpaists, tried different meds, tried coming off meds).

The one issue i have with him/her is that because they have been trying to "fix" themselves for almost a decade, that they are much less willing to put in more effort because everything else so far hasn't worked. So if I sugggest new ideas they are shut down and I'm told I don't know what I'm talking about.

BPD community - Is this BPD? (I am new to it). Or is this something much deeper and not related. I am not young enough to devote years for him/her to fix this (okay I could devote 1-3years maybe, but at a huge risk to my sanity), and is this a commong BPD characteristic?

I want to give him/her every chance possible to work on this issue because I know its not fair that someone has a mental illness so its not fair to not give them a chance. But if they "give up" and its destroying my daily life... .what can I do?

Is there anyone out there that can give me even the tiniest bit of hope? Or is this just not BPD... .and I should be trying to address this issue elsewhere.


Additional relevant information that relates to the aversion of sex and intimacy: my partner thinks that men are inherintly evil and must supress their impulses not to hurt people. They think that that pregnancy is extremely unfair and that is it traumatic for a female to undergo the birthing and gestation while the man "does nothing".

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[babyducks]

Hi Prim,

and ,

I am glad you took the step to join us and post your story.

Let me start by saying that BPD exists on a spectrum.    Some people have traits,  some people have a more full blown disorder, some people have other mental illnesses also.

I want to also say that people with BPD are unique individuals formed by the distinct experiences of their life.   While, in general there are behaviors that share a lot of similarities they can be expressed differently.   For example, you will often  read here peoples stories of infidelity or cheating.   My partner was diagnosed Bipolar 1 and BPD, and I never once had a concern about her cheating or infidelity in our relationship.   Cheating was anathema to her.    It didn't mean she didn't fit the diagnosis but that she expressed differently.    :)oes that make sense?

But then something happened and now I there is a impenetrable wall around him/her that I cannot get close to without being seen as an awful person who doesn't care about him/her and only cares about my physical needs.

Is this BPD? Is this something else?

I think it's very hard to tell.   None of us here are experts,  just experienced with what we have/had going on in our own lives.    

The idea of "fixing" or being "unfixable" is something we talk about a lot.    What was true for me that years of therapy, medication, (she was/is compliant to both) lessened the symptoms that my partner experienced.   They did not go away.    She had more effective tools to deal with mood swings and shame storms.   They did not end.      For her entire lifetime my partner will be dealing with the ramifications of her illness.

The one issue i have with him/her is that because they have been trying to "fix" themselves for almost a decade, that they are much less willing to put in more effort because everything else so far hasn't worked. So if I suggest new ideas they are shut down and I'm told I don't know what I'm talking about.

One thing that is definitely a component of BPD is a very high need for validation.   Have you ever heard of it?    People with BPD (pwBPD) view their emotions as facts, they have an intense belief that their interpretation of events is the only truth, the feeling of the moment will last forever, and their feelings are caused by external events that they have no control over.

Suggesting new ideas, even while well intentioned, is invalidating to a pwBPD and does more harm than good.   Invalidating a pwBPD can create a dead locked situation.   Where neither side is able to convey their thoughts and feelings.

Regardless if he/she is BPD I would suggest you look at validation/invalidation.     It can be a way to improve the communication between you.

'ducks

[pearlsw]

Hi Prim,



Sorry to hear about your struggles with intimacy with your partner. It sounds he/she has many serious issues that are causing him/her a lot of a pain, and you as well. You sound like a very loving and understanding partner. I know I tend to start up with partners thinking I can simply work with whatever comes my way. Sometimes the issues are much bigger than we anticipate and this can be hard to square with our own identities - of seeing ourselves as  people who are willing to love others as they are. It is okay though to question and find our limits. We don't have to be endlessly self-sacrificing.

I find my partner with BPD traits has more issues with sex than I am used to in a relationship. (In fact I pretty much never had a partner where sex was an issue.) At times they get very close and into "deal-breaking" territory for me. Don't be too hard on yourself over this, okay?

Probably not all can be explained by BPD though. It sounds like gender identity issues could also be factors... .and perhaps other issues with abuse or assaults (or fears around them) that have led to such extreme attitudes towards men and unbalanced ones towards pregnancy?

I wonder if your partner is discussing these issues in therapy? Remember, they are ultimately for him/her to resolve. Stay focused on yourself and see what you can do on your side is one thought here.

Take care! We have many thoughtful members who I hope can help us and add more here!

p.s. thanks babyducks, i see you posted too while i was typing - you are always so super!

[evanescent]

I'm reluctant to tie the lack of sexual intimacy to BPD.

I read somewhere recently that about 10% of the population simply does not get the same feeling from it that the rest of us do. Whether this means anything about the direct physical pleasure or not I can't say, but they just aren't interested in it beyond whatever emotional intimacy it may enhance. So I would hesitate to suggest that treatment for BPD will have much impact on it.

[No-One]

Prim:

I'm very sorry about your situation and that your partner isn't emotionally available.  I can tell that you care a lot about your partner.  Unfortunately, we can't fix someone else.  Do you see yourself as a "rescuer"?

Additional relevant information that relates to the aversion of sex and intimacy: my partner thinks that men are inherently evil and must suppress their impulses not to hurt people. They think that that pregnancy is extremely unfair and that is it traumatic for a female to undergo the birthing and gestation while the man "does nothing".

Do you have any thoughts about the source of these thoughts?  Was she abused by a man at some time?  How about her family history - was there abuse?

I know that some people use dual pronouns these days (or neutral pronouns).  Because of the nature of the discussion, I want to check my understanding.  Am I correct in thinking that you are male and your partner is female (both heterosexual)?  Just thinking that it is relevant to the above quote.

[Prim]

Hello everyone,

Thanks for your time to give feedback and information.

I had my suspicions that the intimacy and BPD were not related, and that yes mental illness comes not just as one thing but a host of interacting factors.

I guess the advice I will take away from this so far is to continue focusing on myself and my own sanity and try to give my partner as much time as possible to continue with the various forms of therapy and treatments. But our intimacy issues are surfacing more and more frequently now (it's not even me who usually brings it up) and I just feels like I can't keep holding on being patient and waiting forever while I am being hurt by this more and more often.

P.S.
To "No-One": Yes you are correct, I realized that I gave away our genders in the final sentence but there was no other way to say it.

[Prim]

some more information:

Babyducks:
I don't understand validation/invalidation so I will explore this, thank you.

"Invalidating a pwBPD can create a dead locked situation" This is constantly happening to the point where we can no longer talk about intimacy without both of us getting so upset that we shut down and alienate eachother.

"The idea of "fixing" or being "unfixable" is something we talk about a lot. What was true for me that years of therapy, medication, (she was/is compliant to both) lessened the symptoms that my partner experienced.   They did not go away. "
I'm not sure if I can deal with a lifetime of this. But my partner doesn't have a choice. That's not fair, life's not fair, and it feels like I'm the coward for taking the easy way out by moving on and saying best of luck with your enormous host of problems... .


Pearlsw:
"At times they get very close and into "deal-breaking" territory for me. Don't be too hard on yourself over this, okay?

It already feels like deal-breaking territory and that for my own sanity I will have to give up someone I love so dearly just so that I can be happy. And its not fair on them because I have to be selfish about their happiness when I know they will be crushed (and fear crushed too severely - we are otherwise so good for eachother).


Evanescent:
"I read somewhere recently that about 10% of the population simply does not get the same feeling from it that the rest of us do."
My partner won't even kiss me because the anxiety is too intense. Its not even about "feeling" at this point. She was willing to have sex with me for one month at first even though it wasn't doing much for her, but then once we became a committed couple now all forms of intimacy (to a point, even hugging) is off limits.


No-One:
":)o you see yourself as a "rescuer"?"
No I do not. I am bad at dealing with this situation and keep making mistakes all the time which makes things worse. Maybe I'm just not cut out for being someone with a mental illness.


Everyone:
I jump back and forth between thinking I should cut my losses and run (which I think is selfish of me) to move on and find another healthy relationship some time in the future instead, and then crying every day because I love this person so much and I think everyone deserves a chance at happiness.

I know that maybe this is just bad timing when we met and that she can because the right partner for someone else in a few years time with more therapy and maturity and life experience, but maybe that person just isn't me

[pearlsw]

Hi Prim,

Oh yes, these are tough decisions. I know sometimes I worry too much about my partner not ever being able to get along with anyone - romantically or otherwise. I wondered if it was timing or what other factors might be involved.

I remind myself that this is his journey in life and I am not responsible for that. I am strong and willing to help, but I do have limits and I will not stay past them if it comes to that. I hope there is a chance for a future together I can live with.

I can relate to your pain. Both partners with BPD traits I have had were incredibly funny, interesting, super talented, and total geniuses.  I felt like they were good matches for me for awhile. I have often thought I met someone I could spend my life with, only to "unfairly" discover that simply wasn't possible. And it hurts enormously.

I think your meditation and mindfulness will be a big help for you with whatever choices you make. A lot of the lessons here are based upon mindfulness so if you are already working with this concept you will find that the tools here can be of help with this or any relationship you may have.

I was pretty nervous and felt very uncertain there was any hope left. But after months here reading/studying I have actively chosen to enjoy the process of learning and changing and improving myself in light of my partner's mental health issues, but it took some effort me to get to that mental space. Not saying you have to do that - but your mental state can make a difference.

Take care!

[babyducks]

I don't understand validation/invalidation so I will explore this, thank you.

Hi Prim - 

I borrowed this definition from another website.    If you google Validation in relationship, or how to validate someone you will find a lot of resources.

Validation is one way that we communicate acceptance of ourselves and others. Validation doesn't mean agreeing or approving. When your best friend or a family member makes a decision that you really don't think is wise, validation is a way of supporting them and strengthening the relationship while maintaining a different opinion. Validation is a way of communicating that the relationship is important and solid even when you disagree on issues.

Validation is a skill we learn.  Much like learning a different language.    It works well in general life situations but with a person with a mental illness it's an essential tool to have in the tool box.

Often times I was inadvertently invalidating my partner (now ex) because I couldn't understand the intensity of her feelings or why they would suddenly pop up.     She would tell me something like,  I think you need to stop visiting your family because you spend too much time with them.    And I would say, well that's not going to happen,  there my family,   I am going to see them.     Rather missed the point.

There is a communication tool called SET, Support Empathy Truth that would have worked better in this situation.

Support -  I can see you have some strong feelings about me visiting my family.
Empathy - I'm guessing it feels lonely or maybe worrisome when I am gone.   What can you do to help with that?
Truth -  Still my family is very important to me,  I care for them deeply and I'm going to see them on Tuesday.

Many of us here, by our natures, are fixers and helpers,  we want things to be better and believe that they can be.    We often jump over the recognition of the feelings going right too the conversation about solution.    I know I did.   That can be invalidating.    And because the underlying feeling hasn't been recognized the conversation deadlocks.    In a 'you don't understand my feelings, you don't know what this is really like' loop.

what do you think?    make any sense?

'ducks