Father of 3 sons, 13. 11, 9, Mom is BPD, and I'm just trying to keep them whole.

[Palmetto]

I've been trying to absorb the abuse for the past 14 years.  I didn't realize she was BPD until about 5 years ago.  As the boys have matured I think I've done a good job showing them love, acceptance, and normality.  I felt I've been able to handle the verbal abuse in the past but after all these years it's starting to affect me and how I feel about the future and our lives in general. ( me & the boys ).  Their Mother doesn't acknowledge she has any issues and pretty much blames me for everything that is wrong in the world.  I'm getting tired and need to learn better coping strategies for myself as their Father. Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated.  I consider myself an honest person and am having difficulties filtering out the abuse she says to me with what reality is after all these years.  Laughing about it worked when they were younger but now it's starting to affect me and I need some help restoring my strength. 
Thank you.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Turkish]

What,  specifically,  in the relationship is resulting in the most pain,  and how are the kids handling things?

[ForeverDad]

Only you can determine how best to care for yourself and also your children.  We can offer suggestions, ideas and what worked best for us (and what didn't) but you are the one to educate yourself and figure out the "less bad" options.  The good thing is that by getting education and researching your options then you can make more informed and more confident decisions.

You've had well over a decade to try to improve things but the problem is she's not listening, not responding, not improving.  Sadly, many do end up having to set up their own separate homes so the children have at least some time in a calm and stable home.  But when nothing else has worked, then what?  Something for you to ponder.  Would it work if you stated - after researching well, even starting first with a counselor and family law attorney for yourself and using their advice too, "Things are dysfunctional now and have been for a long time.  We can't continue with the discord, chaos, arguments and whatever in the family.  We need calm, peace and stability in the family.  We are going to start the children in counseling and for ourselves we will start joint/couples counseling."  What that does is set a Boundary.  Boundaries are good, they're essential.  However, it is almost predictable that setting proper boundaries will trigger an overreaction from her in a desperate effort to get you to go back to the way things were in the past.  So be very prepared legally in case she starts a burn-the-bridges campaign.  Search here for the term "extinction bursts".

I am a strong supporter of marriage.  But severely dysfunctional marriages are another matter entirely.  So I hope you can resolve the issues in the family for yourself and your children.  But if it is that unhealthy and she refuses to address the long term issues (generally therapy with an emotionally neutral professional) then your options are limited.  Here's a quote regarding if things just don't improve.

Living in a calm and stable home, even if only for part of their lives, will give the children a better example of normalcy for their own future relationships.  Staying together would mean that's the only example of home life they would have known — discord, conflict, invalidation, alienation attempts, overall craziness, etc.  Over 30 years ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Taking action will enable your lives, or at least a part of your lives going forward, to be spent be in a calm, stable environment — your home, wherever that is — away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.  And some of the flying monkeys too.

I apologize if I've written too much at the very start.  Hopefully she will respond to getting counseling for the family as a unit and individually.  However, I just wanted to give an overview of options, starting with the less drastic ones.

[livednlearned]

Hi Palmetto,

It can be gut wrenching to watch our kids witness or experience abuse

Bill Eddy's book Don't Alienate the Kids is a pretty great book about raising emotionally resilient kids when one parent has BPD (the title is a little misleading, imo). It really changed how I role-modeled healthy behaviors for my son. A lot of us think we are shielding the kids from the abuse, but they are absorbing all of it. The more skillful we become, the more resilient they become too.

The Improving board is a great place to learn from others the skills that can help you prevent from making things worse, and those same skills can help you raise emotionally resilient kids.

When your wife abuses you in front of the kids, how do you typically respond, now that they are older?

How do they deal with their mom, and what kinds of relationships do they have with you, and with her? Do you see signs that they might be struggling with other relationships outside the home?

Maybe we can think through together some ways to create emotional safety for yourself, so your kids can learn some resilience from you.

 

LnL

[isilme]

As a survivor as an only child with two BPD parents, I can say that staying together "for the kids" is never a great idea if you feel you may improve your life and theirs by leaving, and that you can make a good custody case.  The abuse and violence I saw and had visited upon me was pretty much cut in half when Dad finally threw me in a car and we left Mom.  Even though he was bad, the two of them together was getting to be too much for me. 

Within 4 years of just Dad's abuse and neglect, distanced from Mom's confusing enmeshment, abuse and neglect, I was able to grow strong enough to finally stand up to Dad.  It got me kicked out and disowned (in writing no less), but ultimately, it was much better for me. 

That said - if you still love your wife and want to find ways to make it work - that CAN happen.  And reducing the household drama will help EVERYONE.  BUt stay for you and your marriage.  IF you get to where you feel that is done - don't keep struggling to keep it for the kids.  They can see you're unhappy.  They can tell something is wrong even if they may not have words for it.  You can't pour from an empty cup - you need to refresh yourself, and a partner with BPD makes that a challenge.  I've been with my H 21 years, and we've made some great progress in the last 10 since I found this site and started working in me and my codependency issues that feed the BPD fires.  But I am still here and H will always have it, and it takes a lot of wide-eyed acceptance to stay. 

Part of that acceptance is that your W is emotionally disabled and may never be able to give what you need.  Are you okay with that?  How much DO you need?  What would be an improvement in your mind as far as your interactions?  I see working on ourselves a bit like dragging our partners up a ladder.  As we improve, they tend to be dragged, sometimes kicking and screaming (literally) to start as we change our behaviors, right along up behind us.  They may never quite make the same rung, but if we both started at the bottom, as you climb, she eventually should, too.  You are the one conscious enough to be able to change the dynamic.  If you stop responding int he old same ways, she will have to reevaluate her actions to be able to process the disordered emotions inside herself. 

Keep on what you're doing with the kids - sounds like you are being a good dad. 

[Palmetto]

What,  specifically,  in the relationship is resulting in the most pain,  and how are the kids handling things?

Thank you for taking the time to respond.
The boys Mother has lived in a separate home for 2+ years now, just so you know.  What causes me the most pain now is hearing the questions and confusion from my sons as they try and understand their Mothers' actions and words.
I've been reading and watching the videos on the site and need help figuring out how to get engaged in a therapy program.  She will surely perceive this as a threat.  Advice on how to bridge the topic is appreciated.
I believe now, with my oldest just turning 13, the sooner the better for their mental health.
Thank you and I hope your holidays are happy & healthy.

PS. Thank You for the book recommendation. I will definitely order that asap.

[ForeverDad]

Have you informed the school counselors of the difficult situation?  They are a resource readily available.  They probably can't get too deeply involved in issues, but surely they can help.  Also, once they are brought up to speed they almost surely will be on your side for outside counselors and may even be willing to stand up for that counseling when contacted.

However, they may not want to get involved in family dynamic.  If mother opposes counseling, you may have to go to court to get the court to order it.  Yeah, ex may get riled.  We can't always avoid conflict or triggering the other parent.

My lawyer told me, "Courts love counseling!"  So I doubt the court would take his side and nix the idea.  However, you have to be careful he doesn't sabotage you by somehow manipulating things so the kids get inexperienced or clueless counselors.  Some have had good counselors withdraw services because of the ex's actions, no counselor wants to deal with licensing complaints or lawsuits.  (My pediatrician withdrew services permanently when my ex raged one evening at the staff.  Similar happened with a daycare I was using.)

Here is a recent post I made on how to raise the likelihood of getting a good custody evaluator.  Just substitute 'counselors' in place of 'evaluators'.   That way even if he does manage to scare away one or two counselors there will still be more on your recommended list already vetted though the court process.

... .I'm not trying to be discouraging but actually what complications to avoid.  First, you need to select reputable evaluators that the court trusts and your lawyer trusts to do solid evaluations.  You cannot let your ex pick a biased or gullible person or it could risk making things even worse!  One approach is to make a short list of really, really good custody evaluators with solid reputations for solid work, then present that to court and suggest your ex choose from that most excellent list.  Probably her lawyer can't object since there are multiple choices.  Court will like having both parents involved in the selection but the key is that you've hand picked the best of the lot as the only ones for consideration!  Since a CE or two may drop out during the process - did we say high conflict? - your short list should have at least 3 and maybe 4 names if there are that many available in your area.

Meanwhile you can be a great help yourself.  You can learn validation skills to assist your children in seeing things objectively rather than subjectively.  For example, rather than telling them things, guide/teach them to observe, reach solid conclusions and then ponder how to address the situation.  Counselors should be trained to do that well but you can do it too.