Forced codependency

[Graceinaction]

Before anyone starts in on how I choose my own behavior, please hear me out.

I had to stop going to my therapist in the spring because of insurance issues and there is no money to pay since my husband isn't working. I saw my therapist for almost 4 years and she was great. She told me many times that's I'm not codependent, but that occasionally I let my husband pull me into codependency behavior. She said that when she first started seeing me she assumed I was codependent, but after a while realized I wasn't, and that I fight my husband's attempts to make me codependent.

Since my husband had to take a medical retirement from his job, his behavior and illnesses have gotten worse. He's not "just BPD." But I believe his BPD is driving many of the other issues. If he could get his BPD under control he could function again and possibly stabilize his other illnesses.

However, since he has retired, he acts like a child and he tries to force me into situations where I am the mother. He had pretty severe neglect growing up, and to this day his parents are beyond ridiculous. They act like children themselves. It's severe. I wish I could videotape their behavior around me because I don't think people would believe how bad it is otherwise. They act like I'm their parent! My in-laws! I've always been uncomfortable about their behavior, but I've only recently been able to put into words and understand what they're doing. Seeing how they are now, with me, their complete lack of insight, and the things my husband has told me about his childhood (which he says was far worse than he can explain or even understand himself,) I think it was beyond not being heard or validated. He was left alone for days to fend for himself. His parents were there, in the same house, and yet refused to feed him or wash his clothes or bathe him or even sweep the floor. His childhood home is now hoarded and probably needs condemned. So 3 years ago his parents bought another house, and still keep the hoarded house. His parents say they can't sell the hoarded house and blame him, and by extension me, because they expect us to take care of it. Not in this lifetime, and I told my husband he is welcome to do whatever he wishes, but he's not spending one penny of our meager savings on their irresponsibility. His mom says it's my job to make my husband clear everything out of the house. I once attempted to explain to her how that was not my, nor his responsibility, and her eyes glazed over. I swear I felt like I was trying to explain quantum physics to my 4 year old.

When I met my husband he was independent and successful. Introverted, yes, but I am too and we seemed like the perfect match. So let me get to my point and question:

I think I'm in a power struggle with my husband who is trying desperately to make me codependent. He succeeds sometimes when my guard is down or he convinces me that he's unable to do things for himself. But I've "won" most of the battles. It's wearing me down. I'm not worried about turning codependent, I'm worried he'll never declare defeat and step up and be the man I thought he was. I'm worried he will continue down this path for the rest of his life like his parents.

Is there some point where they stop? All the boundaries in the world don't seem to slow this down. He wants me to be his mom, and I refuse. He manipulates, throws fits, makes threats, lies about me to others, etc.

I will admit, JADEing is my weakness. I'm a talker, and reigning that in has been hard. But I'm actively working on that.

Any experience? Is there a book about this? I've read many codependency books and most don't fit this dynamic. I'm fiercely independent, strong willed and have a strong personality. But I'm also loving and quiet and hate conflict. I stand up strongly for what I believe in, but I don't think that should be a daily struggle in my own home with my husband! I get reeled in every once in a while, but I usually recognize it and don't do it again. There's one situation that he had me stuck in for a while, and I finally realized and stopped it. Maybe that prolonged things?

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[Graceinaction]

I just reread what I wrote, and I said something not entirely true. I said I'm not scared of becoming codependent. I AM scared of that. I grew up in a dysfunctional family with a severely BPD grandmother that controlled the entire family with fear.
I was the one that stood up. I broke the family pattern. I set boundaries, stood by them firmly, and 7 years ago cut her out of my life.

When my family went nuts over my actions because suddenly they had to deal with the fallout, I never once backed down. Then my mom (her DIL) suddenly grew a backbone too! My dad almost lost his mind in the process, but to be honest it was interesting to watch how it all played out. I did fight feelings of guilt, but keeping my kids safe from her craziness kept me strong. When my FOO saw what I did, the entire dynamic shifted and even my dad has been able to set some boundaries with her.

My point is that I grew up codependent without any real voice in it. It was the only way I knew. Once I learned better ways, I didn't struggle that much to implement them, so I think I'm not super prone to codependency in my personality, but I am in my childhood. I do worry I will give up. I think I would walk away before it came to that, but I've seen too much codependency in my FOO to not be scared I will end up there.

I'm also concerned that I have codependent behaviors that I don't recognize.

[need2relate]

Hello Graceinaction,

While I am new to this site, I am not new to living a life with someone who has BPD.

I would like to start off by saying that I also struggle to keep my SO from being co-dependent. I am also quite independent. I am not sure if any of what I am about to say will work for you, but it has (most of the time) worked for me.

For example, when my SO sits on the couch and watches me cook, clean and otherwise do everything around the house for she, myself and my stepdaughter, it used to infuriate me. I would just stew on it the whole time I was cleaning. I took a step back and realized a few things. I am by nature a busy body - always doing something. I also had never expressed to my SO that help would be greatly appreciated. The next time I was cleaning I simply asked if she would please load the dishwasher, or vacuum, etc. She expressed to me that she was happy to help and appreciated that I asked her to do a specific thing. She went on to say that sometimes all of the things that need to get done are overwhelming and that listing out one thing at a time for her made it all seem much more manageable. This may seem like "mothering" to you and it may not work, but it has helped us very much. I do not like that I have to list out what needs to be done, but for me it is a much better alternative to being so frustrated by the lack of help. I personally do not view this as codependency but rather me adjusting to the needs of my SO and she adjusting to my needs.

I hope this is in someway helpful to you.

[Graceinaction]

I don't think that's codependent, it sounds like you're communicating your needs and she's meeting them or attempting to!

Unfortunately that doesn't work for my husband. We've tried just about everything. Lists, me asking, dividing things... .early on we had the help of a marriage counselor who eventually threw his hands up in the air and wouldn't see us anymore. He told my husband to seek counseling on his own. Then about s year later we tried another marriage counselor. That time it didn't go well either.

He seems to want me to nag him, and then he acts like a teenager. Same attitude and behaviors. At times I've reached that point. Now I don't nag, but anytime it comes up he still responds as though I am. He will call me a nag, and I'll point out that it's something I haven't brought up in months so how could I be nagging? He will admit I am not nagging, but then go right back into his teenager act. It's like he's trying to recreate what he wanted as a kid but didn't get. His parents never nagged him. Never said one word about his grades or activities or anything. Yes it sucks, and I feel bad that his life was like that. But it's not my job to fix now when he's 40!

Need2relate, I'm SO glad that asking her worked for you. It must be such a relief to have help, and have her respond well to being asked!

[Tattered Heart]

I used to struggle with mothering my H. Just a few weeks ago I was with some girlfriends and I mentioned that I no longer hang up my H's laundry for him. They looked at me like I was a horrible wife. I wish you guys could have seen the looks on their faces when I said this. I explained to them that I used to do this but he refused to help me with houseclearning and I had to make decisions about which chores were more important. So his clothes sit getting wrinkled in a basket in the laundry room. He actually hung them up last week without me prompting him!  

When we first got married his mom handed me he coupon book for his car loan and said she was trusting me to make the payments. I asked my H how much he owed on it and he said he didn't know because he would just pay his mom whatever money he had instead of having to make monthly regular payments.

A few years ago I decided that I did not want to be my H's mom. Sometimes he will try to force me into this role. Just last wee he had overspent by $150 between pay periods. I found myself scolding him. And then I was really mad at myself. So last night when I was paying bills, I had a conversation with him about his excess spending. I started by apologizing for nagging him and scolidng (I'm really not a naggy person). I told him that I do not like to act like his mom because I'm his wife. And I laid it out that he has to get his spending under control. I explained to him that I want him to be able to buy the things he wants to buy but we need to budget for it and we have to put a focus on getting out of debt and upgrading our home. He agreed and apologized for overspending.

I think for you this comes down to a boundary issue. COuld it be you ahve both created this me vs. you arrangement where you make a rule, he breaks the rule? I would suggest one way to do this is to try to empower your H to do more for himself, even if it's in baby steps.

For instance, he is sick.
You might say, "Wow, that cough is bad. You should probably make an appt to see the doctor."
Him: Will you make it for me?
You: I won't make it for you because I'm trying really hard not to be too mothering, but I will help you find the number (or I'll be right here next to you if you have questions while you call them)
Then after he calls, suggest that he saves the number to his phone so next time you don't even have to help him get hte number.

Does that make sense? You play a supportive role not an enabling role.

I know for myself sometimes I want to make sure I am not being taken advantage of by my H so much that I forget to be kind. Despite their BPD kindness is important. My other relationships are extremely healthy. LIke you, my previous T did not believe that my other relationships are so healthy. I'm very good at speaking up, conflict resolutions, talking about issues openly with friends and co-workers. So I do a lot of comparing:

Would I do X for a friend just to be nice to the friend? If yes, then it's ok for me to do that for my H; if not, then if I were to do it for my H, then it might a codependent behavior.  Would I allow a friend to do X to me? If yes, then it's ok for my H. If not, then I need to look at how why I'm allowing it from him.

[need2relate]

Would I do X for a friend just to be nice to the friend? If yes, then it's ok for me to do that for my H; if not, then if I were to do it for my H, then it might a codependent behavior.  Would I allow a friend to do X to me? If yes, then it's ok for my H. If not, then I need to look at how why I'm allowing it from him.

Wow this is very helpful, I plan to try this out. Thank you for sharing.

[need2relate]

Unfortunately that doesn't work for my husband. We've tried just about everything. Lists, me asking, dividing things... .early on we had the help of a marriage counselor who eventually threw his hands up in the air and wouldn't see us anymore. He told my husband to seek counseling on his own. Then about s year later we tried another marriage counselor. That time it didn't go well either.

He seems to want me to nag him, and then he acts like a teenager. Same attitude and behaviors. At times I've reached that point. Now I don't nag, but anytime it comes up he still responds as though I am. He will call me a nag, and I'll point out that it's something I haven't brought up in months so how could I be nagging? He will admit I am not nagging, but then go right back into his teenager act. It's like he's trying to recreate what he wanted as a kid but didn't get. His parents never nagged him. Never said one word about his grades or activities or anything. Yes it sucks, and I feel bad that his life was like that. But it's not my job to fix now when he's 40!

I am sorry that seems to not work well for your SO. I do feel that sometimes my SO just wants me to nag so she can pick a fight. Do you find that sometimes he has the desire to get aggressive for no apparent reason? I find that sometimes my SO wants to pick a fight because she is feeling charged up and need to find a source to release it on.

I agree it is certainly not your job to step in and recreate things he felt were missing from his childhood. It is nice to hear that he recognizes that you are not nagging, even if he slips right back into the behavior.

[Graceinaction]

My husband has been diagnosed and accepts his diagnosis, which I know is a huge thing. I've suspected BPD for years, and back in August he took a NAMI class and came home and said "I think I have BPD." I was caught off guard, and to be honest I had to fight the urge to laugh and respond in a snarky way, but I did fight the urge and was thankful he was catching on. Then during his past hospitalization the doctor told him to read a book about it. When my husband said he was open to reading the book and acknowledged that he already suspected having it, the doctor made the diagnosis. I think the doctor may have been hesitant to diagnose at first for the many reasons it can go ugly!

However, since being diagnosed, he has done worse. It's  like he's clinging to the dysfunction. I understand that in some ways, but at what point is the pain bad enough to want to deal with it? He refuses to deal with his childhood. I don't push him to, but I have told him that until he does I don't think the situation will get better. Personally, I think cutting them off would be necessary, but I will never tell him that. I get along with them fine, so it's not for selfish reasons. I don't like them very much because I know too much about them and don't respect them. But we get along fine. I don't really care how he deals with his past, and I'm not his therapist so I can't determine the way it should be done. But it needs to happen and it's not.

He says he wants a functional marriage, but he's not willing to put in the work. I guess I thought other since he's been diagnosed and accepts it, he would at least start trying to get better. I know it's a long process, but I've already waited 10 years.

What's rock bottom? At what point do people with BPD decide enough is enough? He knows he's messed up, he knows he's messing up our marriage and our kids, he has lost a LOT (including a career he loved,) and yet he's stuck.

Today has been rough. There's a situation with his therapist that he doesn't want to deal with. He wants me to deal with it and I refuse. He doesn't directly say he wants me to deal with it, but that is what it all comes down to. He wants me to "rat him out." Nope. I won't do it. He's a grown man and needs to face his lies on his own. We've been at an impasse on this for weeks. My boundary is firm, and it really ticks him off. It ticks me off because if he would just handle it, it would be done. Instead he builds it up, blames me, lies more, comes up with crazy reasons it is my fault... .on and on.

I don't know what I'm trying to convey exactly. My brain is kind of fried from the conversation we just had. I'm able to set the boundaries and hold on to myself and reality, but it's exhausting. The solution is so simple, but in husband mind it is like facing death. I understand because I can remember feeling like that as a child. The difference is that I learned as a child that it's NOT like facing death. So why doesn't he learn? He's had to face his lies before, and afterward he admitted it wasn't that bad. So why is each time like starting over? He never learns or remembers that it wasn't that bad!

[Enabler]

It might be a mute point but you might want to reclassify the behaviour your SO's demand from codenependancy to "care taking". For me the defining difference is that codepenadants define their existence by their efforts to help the individual with issues and therefore become as entrapped by the disordered behaviour as the person suffering... .if the person recovers the helper no longer has self definition nor feels valued therefore is dependant on maintaining the status quo to maintain their value. Caretakers on the other hand don't necessarily want the responsibility nor do they define themselves by their rescueing of the borderline or "victim". They desperately long for the victim to become self sustaining so they can themselves live a more fulfilled life free from the responsibility of nurturing an adult child. I actually like the use of the word nuturibg and it's a word my T used to describe what my uBPDw wants. It's the reason for all the inane questions which she could easily answer herself, the hand holding, the excessive moral support and validation.

There are books on this, I believe there's one called "stop caretakinv the borderline" and there's a preview version on google books... .see if you like it. Caretakingbis energy and emotionally draining but not half as dangerous as codependency as you do not place positive value and self definition on your rescuing... .it's an annoyance.

[Enabler]

Ps, read Toxic Parents, again, feee previews on google books. You might get some way to understand what is going on his head re Parents and childhood trauma. We don't get it as nons. How does a hideously sexually abused child grow up to continue to want a loving caring relationship with their parents despite having full knowledge of the heinous things their parents have put them through... .but they do. We are hard wired to love our folks irrespective of their behaviours to us! We're just lucky we had good parents I guess!

[Graceinaction]

Tattered Heart, you made a lot of really good points. Sometimes I'm not as kind as I should be, and I don't always realize it. I'm very kind by nature, but I have been struggling with resentment and so I am not always as kind as I should be with him.

Also, the point you made about asking if it is something you would do for a friend- that is a great tool and I'm going to start using it! I'm kind of blown away that you brought up his spending and he took it well. How did you get to that point? I use SET and struggle with Dearman and struggle with Jadeing, but my communication has gotten better. For all that work, it all still falls apart. I'm good at boundaries, and it has helped in some ways. I've learned to stop circular conversations and arguments. I'm trying really hard! He says he wants to try but doesn't know how. He says he doesn't know how to do anything. He has accomplished many big things in his life, and is very smart. But he acts like he has no intelligence at all when it comes to BPD. But that's not true. He was in 6 weeks of Partial hospitalization and learned a lot of DBT skills. He won't even attempt to use them. He has a therapist that he lies to. He has the resources.

I'm trying, and I know I can't make him do what's right. He says he wants to get better, but I'm not seeing any effort. I don't want to walk away, but if he's not going to try then my only other option is to continue living like this, and that's not acceptable to me.

[waverider]

I think you are mixing codependency up with fear of enabling his dependance. You are not dependent on him.

You can choose what you do for him and what you wont, that is your choice and it is not a weakness if you choose to "mother" him on certain issues.

Leaning back on his diagnosis to validate his own shortfalls, and hence make even less of an effort is quite common. You may never be able to prevent that. You can't "make" him do anything regardless of how many boundaries you enact.

Boundaries are about keeping you out of harmful situations as opposed to controlling or modifying someone else's behaviour. The problem is most likely his dysfunctional thought motivators. Would you say he is motivated by impulse, need and immediate gratification, whilst showing no motivations in regards to responsibility and obligations? eg he can get something but cant put it away. Make grand gestures but cant do unrewarding chores?

Is there a feeling of lack of effort and simply can't be bothered? Puts more effort into getting out of things, or pressuring others to do them for him, than it would to do himself? That would show lack of cognitive thinking and inability to weigh up that reality, it simply doesn't occur to him that avoidance is often more effort. Probably because his thinking is so entrenched in a "you do it" mentality.

Its unlikely you can make a big change on this behaviour, only clarify in your mind it is your choice to decide what you will and wont do. if that means by extension what he can or cannot have then that is his choice he has given away. its not for you to feel bad about it, you didn't take it from him.

Resentment is the hard one, as it is earned not bought or a birth right, if someone makes little effort it is hard to earn respect. If you dont feel respect, it shows and creates a sense of failure in the other person, which feeds avoidance as a coping measure, and round it goes.

[Graceinaction]

This is all a lot to think about. It makes sense- codependency vs. caretaking vs. enabling dependency vs. mothering. I understand now why looking at it through the codependency "lens" didn't make sense to me. Now I need to sort it all out in my mind.

I definitely don't want to mother him in any sense because it leads to really bad behavior on his part. An example- when he first agreed to seek help he wanted me to go to his Pdoc appointments. I agreed to go, and according to things I had read it is a good idea to have the spouse included. From the beginning he would defer to me. The doctor would ask him about symptoms and he would look at me and wait for me to respond. The majority of the time I would defer back to him. Occasionally there would be a question he truly couldn't answer and I would but I wanted him to speak for himself as much as possible.

The odd thing was, at home he's not like that. He wasn't then anyway. He wasn't passive or weak, he had a job that required him to be very strong and assertive. He was strong and assertive at home. We had very traditional male/female roles in our marriage and I was ok with that. The second we would be in front of the doctor his entire personality changed. It felt like when I take one of the kids to the doctor and she speaks to me and occasionally asks the kids a question.

We discussed it between appointments and he would tell me the things he wanted to talk about with the doctor. But then we would get in there and he would regress again. Every time. Because of insurance he's had to change doctors several times, and his last doctor had some issues of her own. I have no idea what was going on with her, but I can tell you her behavior wasn't ok for a doctor. I told him I wasn't comfortable going with him anymore as long as he was seeing her. I thought he needed a new doctor but he kept saying "I think she's trying." I'm sure she was trying, but trying doesn't mean you're a good doctor! I stopped going and she started requesting I go. She said he wouldn't talk. I did go a few more times intermittently, but by then I had started to think that my going fed his behavior of regression.

He now has a new doctor and his case manager called me this past week and I told her I wasn't going to his appointment. So she said she was going. From what I hear it went terribly. He just won't communicate in any meaningful way. I don't know why I wrote all of that except to explain how he acts like a child and sometimes I get pulled in without realizing until later. And I don't have many people I can talk about this with. Nobody really. My mom tries to listen but she doesn't understand.

I know that setting boundaries won't change his behavior. But I have never lost hope that his behavior will change. That at some point he will want better for his own life and our family. I'm a fighter. I had something very traumatic happen to me 20 years ago and I fought so hard. I was told I would never be the same. Guess what? I wasn't the same, but I am even better. I went to therapy, learned everything about PTSD, and fought like hell. In the process I learned about family systems and my own family's dysfunction. I learned boundaries and how to be a good mom. I'm far from perfect and I make mistakes constantly. But I learn from them. I don't repeat the same junk over and over.

That is my biggest weakness. Just like he projects onto me, I do the same thing. I can't fathom choosing to stay stuck in dysfunctional behavior. I can't fathom not wanting to have good relationships with my spouse and kids. I project my hope and desires onto him. I try to face that he doesn't want to get better, then he tells me he does and I believe him despite the fact that his actions don't show it. In that way I am dysfunctional, and I can't seem to let it go. If I'm honest with myself and you, I know boundaries aren't to change his behavior but I always hope they will. If I tell him he must stop raging or he has to leave, yes I am protecting the kids and myself from his raging. But I still hope he will choose to stop raging instead of leaving. He rarely does. Usually he leaves. And it hurts because I don't understand why anyone would make the choices he makes. Yes he is motivated by impulse, need and immediate gratification. Avoidance is his main priority.

He will sleep in his car at a truck stop instead of having a 10 minute conversation about the budget. He will make what should be a 5 minute conversation 2 hours long by deflecting, avoiding and circular arguments. I've gotten much better about not allowing it because it's exhausting to me, but sometimes I let it go too long before I stop it. The funny thing is that he complains that it's exhausting, but will never just have the stinking 5 minute conversation. Who spends 2 hours avoiding a discussion about something so small and simple?

As far as respect, you are right on that as well. I've thought a lot about that. He doesn't respect himself. I read somewhere that borderlines feel the need to live up to their parent's expectation that they are a loser. I see that he is smart and strong and good at heart. He makes lots of bad decisions, but I don't think he's a bad person. But he seems determined to be a loser. He wasn't always like this. I think he was for many years before I was a part of his life, but when we were first married, really the first 7-8 years of our marriage he was kind of ambitious. When he was forced to take a medical retirement he decided he was a loser and now seems determined to stay that way. It doesn't have to be like that. He could still be very productive and have the career he always dreamed of! That's the crazy part. Before the medical he had even talked about retiring early to follow his dream. Now he can and he refuses.

Yes, it's not the way we expected things would go, but dude, roll with the punches!
I've been as supportive as I can, which is pretty darn supportive. He has the ability. I've been patient because, well, he's a man. His identity was pretty tied up in his career. But I didn't expect him to blow our lives apart.

I'm sorry I write so much. It helps me to get it out. The feedback from all of you has been amazing and I have a lot to think about. Please don't stop if anyone has more input! I learn so much and this whole forum is amazing. I don't write often, but I read so much. I read really old posts sometimes and want to respond, but responding to 8 year old posts isn't really appropriate... .

Thank you. This forum is really incredible and I wish I could give back as much as I'm getting.

[waverider]

Another thing to think about in regards to never seeming to learn from past behaviour. Someone with intense and immediate emotions who tends towards avoidance rarely works issues through.

Imagine when you grieve, it hurts you talk about it think, about it, the pain fades and you start to heal... That is the norrmal process. In a Borderline world the emotion is intense it skyrockets towards catastrophe, everything explodes, total control goes out the window. It is frightening so the only way to deal with is it is to avoid, shut it down, quarantine it.

This is why after these extremes they seem to come good quicker, without the wounds others suffer. They have dealt with it, they have come through the other side. Or so it seems. You are deemed the one with a grudge, the bad guy, as you are healing and not "over it".  So it must be your fault

By not owning it, working it through, and getting to the real cause and effect, its not been put into perspective and so they dont learn, and it repeats. Next time it repeats the pain from last time comes out of quarantine and is piled onto the now just as strong as it was when locked away. This validates and escalates the now. To you it seems like a turbo charged rerun... and so it goes on, groundhog day on endless rerun.

Avoid>explode>quarantine>deny and avoid. There is no healing, there is no evolution. This is one of the reasons therapist struggle with pwBPD they are simply not willing to be open and discuss real issues stay in perspective and often go in with an agenda to lay blame or deflect.

You are his comfort zone so you get closer to the truth, but outsiders are a clean sheet on which they dont want to expose their real selves, even when "fessing up" its usually substantially distorted.

So what to do? Well accept you can't fix them directly, but you can do a lot to fix the environment around you, and your own sanity The more stable the environment the more it will influence them towards better choices. But they are their choices to make

[Notwendy]

I think people tend to think of co-dependency as an all or none thing- but just like BPD can be on a spectrum- with some people having traits or not every one of the symptoms,  so can people with co-dependency. I sometimes wish there was a different word for this as the term "dependency" is confusing. We think of dependent people as weak and helpless and unable to take care of themselves and that does not describe many of the nons in BPD relationships who are taking on a large part of the responsibilities of the relationship, finances, and housework.

Growing up in my FOO, my BPD mother didn't work, didn't do housework, and seemed dependent on others to do things for her. So how was it that my father, who was successful in his job, and a good parent who seemed to take on the responsibilities of supporting the family was the co-dependent one?

And how is it that I, who had a career and was independent found myself in a relationship that had similarities ( and huge differences) from my parents' relationship? I don't think my H meets full criteria for BPD and I don't meet full criteria for co-dependency, but the combination of both of our tendencies seemed to follow a pattern.

We are not our parents, but something about our tendencies were similar. How could they not be. Yet it was a mystery how his relatively calm appearing FOO somehow had similar dynamics to mine. My mother is severely BPD and our FOO was chaotic. My MIL is the opposite- the home maker, carer. Later, I realized that she is co-dependent and enabling, and while my FIL is not BPD, he has anger issues, but they are not apparent because of the efforts of MIL.

Once I saw the connection, it helped me to unravel what was going on. I can relate to the title "forced" co-dependency as my H also at some level, wanted the emotional caretaking his mother did for his father, and would feel unloved and angry if I did not. So I did it, not because I wanted to , but because I feared the consequences of the rages, and anger if I did not.

That was another key. I was not being forced to be co-dependent, I was acting out of my own fear of the consequences. I still had a choice. I wasn't a slave or being held hostage. I was not doing things under physical threat. I was doing things out of fear, but whose fear was that? Mine. And I could work on that fear.

To me the benefit of a term or label- whatever one calls it , isn't in the identity, but the tools associated to help me work on my own part in the relationship. If working on co-dependency, caretaking, enabling or any other term is helpful- then the results are what are the goal.  Some of the tools and resources work on relationship dysfunction in general. IMHO don't fear the label, but if aspects of it help- use the label to find tools and resources to help you.

[pearlsw]

Just want to say this is a very interesting thread and mind-blowing at times! Lots of food for thought here! Thanks to all the posters for sharing these insights!

[Enabler]

Co-Dependancy is batted around too much and has become far to blanket a label. It's unfair to use this to label ourselves when there's better terms which depict the motivations of each actor:

Enabling - the act of removing, relieving or negating negative consequences of someone else's (usually a SO) maladapted behaviors such that the enabler takes the pain/effort/cost for that someone else.

Co-Dependency - where the enabler gains something, usually a sense of significance, security or emotional reward for enabling the enabled person with maladaptive behaviors. The removal of the maladaptive behaviour detracts or removes the enablers identity and emotional reward giving the enabler a false incentive to continue enabling and perpetuate the maladaptive behaviour by the enabled person. Each person is as sick as the other and as dependent on each other to continue the status quo of dysfunctional behaviour.

Caretaking - the act of absorbing the negative consequences of deficiencies and maladapted behaviours of someone else (usually SO) to ensure that the enablers life continues as smoothly as possible such that the enabler can achieve life goals and operate in as near to "normal" life as possible. Compensating for the enabled persons ineffectiveness or chaotic behavior in a constant counteracting manner. This typically revolves around the enablers or enabler/enabled couples blueprint of how they believed life should be, life goals and values. The Caretaker takes no positive emotional gain from the act of caretaking other than they have more control and tend to lean toward their own blueprint rather than the couples. If the maladapted behaviours were to cease the caretaker would feel relieved and would happily move to their ideal situation which would be a loving, caring partnership of 2 healthy functioning adults. Caretaking it emotionally and physically draining.

Emotional Caretaking - the act of attempting to manage someone else's emotional wellbeing. This could be managing their environment to reduce stress and relinquish them from responsibility, take over tasks that frustrate them and cause them to dysregulate, remove yourself and kids when they dysregulate, avoid asking them things or discussing certain things when they're not in the right mood, validate them, seeking truth rather than accepting enabled's word, accept that you may not get your emotional needs met by them... .The enabler takes no positives from enabling other than they hope to avoid the negative impacts of emotional dysregulation from the enabled. If the enabled were to heal and recover the enabler would be much happier and would be content with the improved situation. Emotional caretaking requires being hypervigilent to enabled's moods, body language, signals and actions. It is emotionally draining and often causes a huge amount of personal anxiety.   

You can see from my interpretation at least that there is a difference between co-dependancy and caretaking. It's a fine line but ultimately caretakers take NO emotional benefit from their actions and do not define themselves by their caretaking. Their lives would be positively impacted by the removal of the disorder. They are healthy people in unhealthy situations. They stay because for duty, moral, ethical or purely because they have far too much invested in the relationship to remove their care and support. They do nothing to encourage the behaviour and in many cases constantly battle to normalise the situation.

My 2p... .I'm a caretaker.

[waverider]

Good post, most people are stuck in the middle somewhere as the dysfunctional behaviour becomes normalised and perspective is lost. Especially if they become isolated.

As a coping mechanism the caretaker often adapts to their environment with a new persona that incorporates a degree of avoidance. ie they loose themselves, and being a "caretaker" becomes not so much a job as a life style

[Notwendy]

I agree that co-dependency has become a broad term, and other descriptions may fit some people better. However, some of the help and tools available for co-dependency may also help for all the categories.

We all bring the relationship tools we have into these relationships. Something attracted us to our partners, and we stay for different reasons. We want to improve the relationship. We learn that we can't change another person, only ourselves and that this requires learning new relationship skills.

I also agree with WW that a tendency can become a lifestyle.

If I learned a relationship tool that was better than the ones I had, the category it came from was less important to me.