At what point did you say, "enough is enough?"

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

The end of my relationship came when my BPD ex beat me into the hospital, so I'm probably NOT the person to ask about knowing when to walk away, clearly I DIDN'T make a good call.

But I wanted to reply to plug the concept of making a choice before it's made FOR you. I can look back now and count at least 10 times I probably SHOULD have called it quits, and if I had I could have spared myself a lot of heartache. When he spit on me? Yup. When he backed me against a wall and then punched a hole into it an inch from my head? Yup. When he called me a ___ and chased me across the parking lot of his apartment complex? Yuuuuuup... .and numerous other times.

I guess all that to say that at some point our BPD people have shown us what they are capable of when dysregulated. At some point we have a pretty good idea of whether they are capable of really improving or changing. And at some point we can pretty accurately predict what the future holds. I knew for many months and wish I had made the decision for myself BEFORE the worst could happen.

Just my 2 cents... .I know it's not easy. But I think you probably have a pretty good idea.

Lala

[Lalathegreat]

The end of my relationship came when my BPD ex beat me into the hospital, so I'm probably NOT the person to ask about knowing when to walk away, clearly I DIDN'T make a good call.

But I wanted to reply to plug the concept of making a choice before it's made FOR you. I can look back now and count at least 10 times I probably SHOULD have called it quits, and if I had I could have spared myself a lot of heartache. When he spit on me? Yup. When he backed me against a wall and then punched a hole into it an inch from my head? Yup. When he called me a ___ and chased me across the parking lot of his apartment complex? Yuuuuuup... .and numerous other times.

I guess all that to say that at some point our BPD people have shown us what they are capable of when dysregulated. At some point we have a pretty good idea of whether they are capable of really improving or changing. And at some point we can pretty accurately predict what the future holds. I knew for many months and wish I had made the decision for myself BEFORE the worst could happen.

Just my 2 cents... .I know it's not easy. But I think you probably have a pretty good idea.

Lala

[SamwizeGamgee]

LowSpirit - I think I know what you're saying about not being as bad as some of the horror stories on these boards.  I too read of others stories, and I feel sorry for them, and at the same time, glad that I'm not in a situation "that bad."  However, I will note that each person is different.  There is not a set standard, or line past which one can say "enough is enough."  There's not a matrix that gives you a score to tell you when to end a relationship.  I sometimes feel regretful that I didn't end my marriage right away, or 19 years, or 18 years, or 17 years ago, and so forth.  I kept giving and suffering.  In some ways it was a learning process for me, and I think I am a better person because me deepest character flaws have been blasted away due to my constant trying harder and becoming a better person.  That said, I think inside, my gut is saying that I've had enough. So, you've got to figure it out for yourself.  There is no outside answer.

As an observer of human behavior, I suspect that by the time a woman (your wife) asks you what you think of an open relationship - and you don't blow up and instantly shut the idea down - it's too late.  The ship has sailed.  Furthermore, thinking of BPD as a toddler mind, by not making an extreme prohibition of a behavior, anything less is an implicit permission.  So, you have already told her with your behavior that she can have an open marriage.  Better decide what you're going to do about it.

Lala - your story is a stark reminder about how important safety is, and how difficult things get when we move our "line of tolerance."  It must be hard to think about and share.  I'm sorry.  It also is a difficult lesson for me in that I "wish" I was getting physically abused rather than verbal and emotionally abused.  I can protect myself physically better.  I would have physical proof, evidence, and a court case if I was physically harmed.  It would be obvious to myself and others that the relationship is toxic, harmful, and needed to end.  Instead I mull around in a category of "hurt feelings" as grounds for divorce.  I'm not making light of any abusive situation, but, I would much prefer to have a "fight" I can identify.   You can look back at physical damage that was your warning sign.  I look back and see ambiguous emotional cues, feelings, rages, and then doubt they happened like I remember, or misunderstood, or ignored.   We both went too far down the road suffering they way that we have.

[LowSpirit]

Thank you, Sam.  I too am wondering whether I made a huge mistake by not shutting things down as soon as she raised the "open" question.  As I said, I was worried that if I said an outright "no", she might go off and do something just to put me in my place.  She has always said that she wants me to be "a man" and dominant and make decisions, but in reality, they have to be the decisions she wants made -- she just doesn't want to have to make the decision herself.  And being dominant means doing the things she wants me to do.  Her cycles of ups and downs have gone on for years, lasting anywhere from a week of not talking to me or the kids, to 6 months of high libido behaviour (that after the first few weeks became less fun and more just trying to appease), to probably a year or more holed up in our bedroom -- barely talking to anybody and fairly often locking me out.  She also has difficulties maintaining friendships ("latches onto" one or two people and does everything with them every day for months, but sooner or later she says something 'wrong' or takes something somebody else says personally when it was not and terminates the friendship).  She is currently in a group of friends local to our city that she found online a few months ago;  many of them are decades younger, and are living the irresponsible/free life of "polyamourous" and "open" relationships -- I think that is where the idea came from.  I am thinking that, true to past behaviours, this is just the high part of a cycle and it will end soon -- or the friendships will end just as they always have.  I just hope that is before she actually decides to do something.  If she does do something and jeopardizes the marriage, then I guess I would have to see whether she instantly regrets it and we can introduce marriage counselling (maybe leading to counselling for her) and improve the situation, or whether she has no remorse which I cannot see resulting in anything but the end of our marriage.

In the meantime, her blaming me for all her problems has created a huge hole in our relationship where if I say anything about togetherness, just she tosses out that I (apparently) didn't care at all about her for years and drove her to depression.    And she doesn't invite/involved me in her social life with her friends, even when their SOs are invited.  We still get along (her snide comments, annoyance, and quick frustration with me is nothing new so doesn't bother me and I recognize where it comes from), and still sleep together, but the deep connection that we should have is not there... .and I guess maybe never will be unless she eventually decides that she does have a problem and starts going to therapy and recognizes that I was not the cause of her moods (she was told a few years ago by the doctor that they have gone as far as they can with the meds, but she needs therapy too, but would never go once the meds got sorted out).  By the way, she wasn't always like this -- yes, strong-willed and the more dominant one in the relationship -- but things didn't really start to come 'unhinged' (and I do not mean that in a derogatory way about her, but I mean with behaviours and our relationship) until after our 3rd child... .I am not certain whether the stresses of motherhood, etc. can be a trigger for setting off BPD (probably something else I should read up on).

I am very unhappy, and ruminate on this stuff all day every day, and have no idea whether we have a future together, but knowing where this all comes from (in my thoughts, something she cannot control and does not do purposefully to hurt me) combined with my feeling that a lot of it is just my inability to cope properly (I am an anxious/weak kind of guy) does not make me feel that it is time to 'fish or cut bait'.  I am working on myself: going to talk to the doctor about how to deal with my overwhelming anxieties, losing some weight, joining some other forums just so I can have some "normal" social interaction, etc., and also trying to understand her better (reading this forum and other material).  It is not yet time for me to say 'enough is enough' but it certainly is a struggle to make it through the day sometimes still feeling good about myself and with some hope for the future.

[SamwizeGamgee]

I hear you. I have gone on the roller coasters as a BPD passenger also. 
Confidence is sexy, and if she hasn’t seen yours in a while, maybe sexual boredom is behind the talk of open relationships.  Maybe.  You could read “No more mr. Nice Guy!”  I was put off by the title for a year or so, priding myself on being a nice guy, but I had a lot of wrong reasons and methods to being a nice guy.  Give it a read and see where it takes you.  It gave me some much needed perspective. 

Having a solid sense of self is life saving when living near to a BPD sufferer.  Self help is very important.

Keep on going!

[LowSpirit]

Thanks, Sam.  I will look that up.  Indeed, I can see where "nice guy" and "wimp" overlap and perhaps that is part of the problem.  I have always thought I was being extremely nice by accommodating many of her wishes.  That, of course, may just be being a wimp -- at least in her eyes.  As I said, she has talked often of wanting me to be more dominant and making decisions, etc. although she is not happy if I choose wrong or do something she does not want.  I will read that reference (is a post on this site, a book, or something else?), and work on my ESP to figure what she wants when she doesn't say it (ok, maybe not ESP, but I was just having a conversation the other day with my daughter and she was talking about how "mentalists" must be extremely good at picking up on body language and small expressions of people to guide them -- I will have to do some looking up of that).  Goodness knows, I would like to be the person she is looking for before she goes looking to much (recognizing that I am me, and I have to be happy with myself, too... .and aware that I cannot meet the standards of a fictional character she sees in some movie or reads about in a book). 

[vwbug]

"In the meantime" I would suggest that you say "enough is enough" to abusive behavior.  That's easy for me to recommend that YOU no longer put up with that.  Realizing that your decision may "trigger" a decision by the other party to essentially say this r/s "is no longer working for me" and they may leave.

Wow, thanks for this.  This helps me understand my last two breakups!  I felt badly that both men left me, rather than me leaving them because they treated me poorly.  But they left AFTER I set strong boundaries.  That really helps me reframe and beat up on myself less.  Thank you!

[Wolfsocks]

Reading this had made me grateful that I "only" received emotional abuse. My breaking point came when I realized the huge double standards my partner was holding on to when I fell in love with another person for the first time in ten years (that's how long our relationship lasted).  She has flirted with other people for years but I had to be completely faithful - to the point that people thought I was a prude. My partner was allowed to have as many close friendships/relationships as she liked but I had to be exclusively hers.

When I admitted my feelings for another person all hell broke lose. She raged, cried, emotionally blackmailed, manipulated and tried to control me for months. There was no willingsness on her side at all to work on the weak spots of our relationship (I had been very lonely for over a year because of her crazy working hours). I think the only way to "save" the relationship would have been to cut all ties with the other person.

At that point, however, I felt so abused and trapped in an unloving marriage that this was no longer an option. The other person I fell in love with does not have BPD and I simply could no longer choose a hurtful, dyregulated control freak over a gentle and kind soul who really seems to love and respect me.

[Enabler]

By the way, she wasn't always like this -- yes, strong-willed and the more dominant one in the relationship -- but things didn't really start to come 'unhinged' (and I do not mean that in a derogatory way about her, but I mean with behaviours and our relationship) until after our 3rd child... .I am not certain whether the stresses of motherhood, etc. can be a trigger for setting off BPD (probably something else I should read up on).

LowSpirit, couple of quick questions:
- Was that your last child together?
- Was she working even part time with 1 & 2 child and gave up work to be a stay at home mum for 3?
-  How old was child 1 when child 3 was born?

I have had a couple of thoughts on this based on some information I have read on bpdfamily and putting timings together.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/why-we-struggle-in-relationships

"Typically, a borderline adult gets exactly what they feel they have always needed when they have a baby. That is, while it has proven almost impossible to merge with another adult, while simultaneously maintaining control over the relationship, with a baby that is exactly what the borderline achieves. The situation is, at first, tantalizingly perfect. The borderline wants perfect recognition of their own independence and that is what they perceive within their merger with the infant. As long as they respond to the child's biological needs in the first few months, the child is very likely to seem to be giving perfect recognition of the borderline's independence. To the borderline, the fact that they are now a parent, seems like individuation."

"Predictably, however, as soon as the baby has independent striving, the borderline parent experiences abandonment at the hands of their very own child. Such abandonment or individuation is impossible for the borderline to tolerate and thus they react to their own child with distaste, anger, ignoring behavior, and they use any other means necessary to thwart their child's independence."

My uBPDw's symptoms seemed to lessen when the children were very young, as though she had exactly what she'd always needed. As the article above notes, when the children became older and unmeshed from her she struggled... .and along came another replacement baby... .until we'd had our 3rd. After #3 she did not return to work and had a lot of time to ruminate AND deal with our eldest who was then say around 4, starting school (abandonment) and very independent (abandonment). This is a complete hunch, but I think that my W hates the bad feelings stirred up by the children's independence and going to school (emotional abandonment/ physical abandonment) she cannot pinpoint their origins but even more importantly does not want to feel anger towards her own children as she knows that is wrong and they are just children. She cannot rationalise why she might be angry with her own children being independent or "abandoning" her going to school, so looks for an alternative thing to blame... .so instead she directs the anger at me.

[Mustbeabetterway]

Thanks for starting this discussion, 5min.  I have related to so much of what has been said here.    I have been married to a PWBPD traits for over 30 years. There have been really good times and really bad times as most of you have also experienced.  During the past 3 years, I have been working on myself and my part in our problems.  I have come a long way in keeping my emotions regulated and taking better care of myself.

In short,  there has been a ton of crazy making behavior.  Yelling, screaming, cussing, name calling, throwing things, breaking things and occasional pushing and shoving physically threatening behavior.  Recently,I have set firm boundaries and have been maintaining those boundaries.  It has been very difficult.  But, when I become an observer instead of a participant in the craziness, I can respond in a more rational way.

The angry fits have continued.  Recently, my husband started breaking our wedding crystal.  He says it’s half his and he doesn’t want it.  This is just an example of how things can go off the rails. 

I can relate to those of you who after an ugly episode ask yourselves if it really happened. It’s sometimes hard to believe.  But, I am shaking myself and forcing myself to believe the truth of what has happened and will continue to happen if I don’t take a stand.  Last year, I began to experience some stress related health problems.  One being that my hair began to fall out.  When I tried to talk to him about the stress that his anger was contributing, he totally blamed it all on the stress from taking care of my elderly mom.  Which admittedly is stressful, but not the entire problem.  At least taking care of an elderly person has some firm guidelines and answers, whereas living with a PWBPD is a puzzle.

We are getting our home ready to sell.  We did plan to move to my family’s home which has been empty and I  have been maintaining since my mom moved to a long term care facility.  But, just today I told him that I want to move there by myself.  He acts shocked and hurt even though I have been telling him that I will not continue to live with the name calling. 

I really pray for the strength to enforce this boundary.  I don’t want to grow any older with this crazy behavior.

[Cat Familiar]

Quick and to the point, the “no-go checklist”.
#1.) unfaithfulness, audultry, sexual betrayal.
#2.) physical violence, bodily harm, or direct credible threat therof.
#3.) direct, and complete financial sabotage, of family security assets, with prejudice.
#4.) sabotage, attack of professional career, ie’ an attack, on my career out of spite, with willful destructive intentions.

Yeah, that would seal the deal, end game.

Well, I had all of these in my first marriage to a pwBPD, and I still stayed for years. I kept thinking if I just loved him enough, he would quit doing all these things and remember to be kind again. Well, he did "try" and largely stopped a lot of those behaviors, or maybe they just went underground and he continued doing them without my knowledge.

But the sum total of my experience wore me down and filled me with bitterness, anger and depression. When I realized that I was "merely waiting to die" I told myself that if he ever crossed the lines of violence or infidelity again, I would have a choice: 1. ending the relationship  or  2. waiting to die.

I chose #1  and my life has been so much better ever since. Yes, divorce with a pwBPD was no picnic, but I emerged stronger and more intact than I'd been in the relationship.

Though I did counseling for a couple years, had a nice BF I didn't want to marry because of his PTSD from military service, I still ended up marrying another BPD husband. Although this one is much milder on the spectrum, it was still a shock when I finally recognized some of the behavioral patterns. Fortunately he doesn't do any of the above list, but it was incredibly disappointing that he wasn't the man I fell in love with. He's still a good man, but the BPD.

Ah, it's hard to escape the childhood programming when one has grown up in a home with a BPD parent. Thanks Mom!     

[Red5]

Well, I had all of these in my first marriage to a pwBPD, and I still stayed for years. I kept thinking if I just loved him enough, he would quit doing all these things and remember to be kind again. Well, he did "try" and largely stopped a lot of those behaviors, or maybe they just went underground and he continued doing them without my knowledge.

@Cat Familiar, I came up with my “nogo” checklists resultant from my twenty-one year life experiences associated (from) with my first marriage.
Yes, twenty-one years… we got married very young, she (#1) was seventeen, I was eighteen… what did we know right?… #1 came from a very abusive childhood, I was clueless then of course about anything about that, and won’t go into that here, but needless to say it was pretty bad, and as we know this adversely affects a person’s psychology as they grow up, and we did grow up together, it was great at first, but after child number three, she began to act out, as that’s what I called it then, and as we grew up, we grew apart, and I began to learn, she began to talk about things, and I had no idea how to help her cope, or even understand why, I learnt the hard way about all kinds of things a young man was better off not knowing.
I tried hard, I tried hard till it almost killed me to save that marriage, as we did have three children together (life history), and that meant the entire world to me.
But in the end, after all of that we had been through together, she did leave for good, and not only did she leave me, she left all of us, me, my two sons and my daughter.
A tough nut to crack, this childhood abuse monster, and as I later found out, and as I learned more and more, that this type of abuse is multi-generational in most cases, I came to understand that I really never stood a chance in saving her (#1)… and I learned that it (CSA) utterly destroys lives, even if physiological treatment is sought, it still leaves scars, akin to PTSD, flashbacks, severe emotional distress, self-harming, “acting out”, on and on and on, so these people never ever get very far away, before it destroys everything they have and hold,  once again.
I was her “escape” now that I understand; almost thirty five years later on, it is an abject miracle that we stayed married for twenty-one years.
So I was freed from all of that (responsibility), and I managed to get free also relatively intact… and I remained on my own (with my teenagers) for a while, a few years of independence, which I was able to heal somewhat, and I dated some, and then I met “the one”… unfortunately, my knowledge was only tuned to one channel, so I was oblivious to things I should have recognized (retrospect), and I am where I am now, another decade downrange… and still learning !

[SamwizeGamgee]

Cat - yikes!  I have been using the descriptor "just waiting for my turn to die" as an explanation of my marital status. Ugh, you hit a nerve.  And thanks.  There has to be more, but, like a convict on death row - i'm trying to spend as much time with my kids an fill my life with fitness and otherwise purposeful work until it's my time to die.

[Lucky Jim]

i'm trying to spend as much time with my kids and fill my life with fitness and otherwise purposeful work until it's my time to die.

Samwize: Living a life of quiet desperation, as if you are on death row, strikes me as incredibly sad for someone as bright and talented as you.  I wonder whether the solution might be "outside the box."  For example, not all spouses live together full time.  Some spouses even live and work in different states.  Not saying this is right for you, but am suggesting that there are different formats out there that might be more viable for you going forward.

LuckyJim

[Red5]

Samwize: Living a life of quiet desperation, as if you are on death row, strikes me as incredibly sad for someone as bright and talented as you.  I wonder whether the solution might be "outside the box."  For example, not all spouses live together full time.  Some spouses even live and work in different states.  Not saying this is right for you, but am suggesting that there are different formats out there that might be more viable for you going forward.

LuckyJim

I had a random thought, I always try to see things as they are, relative to time and space, how big is a human head, a human brain, well about roughly the size of a canolope, a mush melon as my Grandmother used to refer to them, and to say that this compact sized unit holds the human continence, even the “soul essence” , and then considering the size and area of the earth and even our solar system, then why in the world would we let another human hold us hostage so? Considering the actual size of our mates “brain housing group”... .how is this possible, when there are so many other things in our lives that are enormous is size comparison, why do we let one other person control, and devalue, and make us so miserable? What a quandary eh’... .I guess I am trying to say, life is so enormous and so expansive, so big!... .how can something so small rule over us?... .why?, is it “Love”, or responsibility, or who really knows... .v/r Red5

[SamwizeGamgee]

I’ve spent time thinking about death row.  I can find some inspirational stories there. There is enlightenment and penance.  There is wisdom hidden from most.  There is value in each day that the sun rises and each breath we draw.  I am extremely more attentive as a father since I know that my time is limited and affected by the family dysfunction.  Although I’ve committed no crime, here I am. However, I’m as free as my belief system. I’m as happy as I choose to be. I am immune to marriage for the most part. 

@LJ. I am in a pause right now.  I cannot stay in this grayish area forever.  For now I stay, but maybe I’m a fighter not a lover.  This has to get fixed or broken eventually. 

[Lalathegreat]

Oh Samwize, something about these last few posts makes me incredibly sad. I completely understand your response to me above about how hard it is to determine when the emotional manipulative BS and unkindness is “enough” to end a relationship. Clearly, in a situation like mine where there was a gross physical assault after some fairly egregious red flags, the lines become a lot clearer.

However, my observation is that you are a generous, kind, and supportive person. You display that continually on the forum in your thoughtful responses. That you have been reduced to “waiting to die” by the circumstance of your relationship makes me want to cry.

I guess I would encourage you to think again about what your definition of “enough” is. I know we aren’t supposed to tell anyone what to do and clearly I have revealed a bias, so my apologies. But please consider that if you are comparing your life to that of a death row inmate, the damage you are experiencing is substantial.

Take care of yourself!

[Cat Familiar]

Though we didn't have children, my ex and I shared a business, a ranch, and after so many years, our lives seemed inextricably entwined. When we first got together, I was still a child, emotionally, if not numerically.

Ending the relationship was like jumping into the void. I had no idea how I would manage and he sabotaged me every way he could. But I persisted. I kept moving forward, once I had the taste of freedom. For a year, I slept with a gun under my bed (not something I felt comfortable with, but a friend who knew my situation insisted).

Ultimately, the legal paperwork was done and I had paid him far more than I thought I should for him to go away. My attorney explained that I'd either spend about the same amount of money in his fees if I'd try and fight in court with the vain hope of making it "fair" so I chose to end it sooner and be done with the ex forever.

In retrospect, I got off cheap, with real estate prices having skyrocketed. It was brutal, but freedom from this tyrannical person was well worth the fight. And though I have issues in my current relationship, it's like comparing a mosquito bite to an attack by a grizzly bear.

[Lucky Jim]

5 min, Sorry to hijack this thread, briefly.

Hey Sam, I know that you're in a holding pattern.  Years ago, during my marriage, I had a strange fantasy, which was that I would be arrested and sent to jail.  For what crime, I am unsure, but the theme was that it would be a relief from the daily strife with my BPDxW.  I longed to have a cell where I could live without abuse.

The reason I mention this weird fantasy is that it reminds me a little of your identification with those on death row.  In both cases, I think, you can see one's subconscious trying to be heard.  It's a message from the depths of one's core.

Like you, I was in a holding pattern and lacked the strength to leave.  Yet here I am seven years after separating from my Ex, and life is a lot more expansive than I ever thought, as Red5 notes.  I've found that, despite all the hardship, I still have the capacity to love and be loved by kind people.  There are kind people are out there for you, too, when you are ready to make the move.

You deserve to be happy, right?

LuckyJim

[SamwizeGamgee]

Thank you all, and apologies for hijacking the thread quite a bit.  Lala, you are very kind and thoughtful, thank you.
I am looking at myself, trying to pry back layers of thoughts and feelings.  I am watching for signs whether I have reached an enlightened state of lovingkindness and acceptance and have arrived at the “rest of my life” or, whether I am covertly depressed and gone numb to the point of being wrongly on death row of marriage.  I do believe that when we numb the hurt, we numb the joy, and I can say that marriage doesn’t hurt and doesn’t bring an iota of joy either.  Probably not the life I’d like to pass on for my kids for sure.  But, for some reason I’m just feeling inert, but accepting and happy with my own self at the same time. 

My hobby of distance running just sort of ingrained my psyche to keep running, take the pain and keep running for the greater joy and accomplishment of the run.  It’s analogous to marriage.  Eat, suffer, and keep going. 

Meanwhile, I question whether the fight to be free would be worth the price I’d pay.

[ozmatoz]

Meanwhile, I question whether the fight to be free would be worth the price I’d pay.

This, so much this.  Sam, I'm in the same limbo right now, numb, no joy, sometimes no hope.

I was talking to my T a few weeks ago about what I was so afraid of about leaving and it really boiled down the the almost insurmountable fight and pile of BS that I know will get thrown at me.  My versions of passivity was hoping she'd find a new partner and in the midst of her love-bombing just finally leave me alone. 

I desperately want this to be over, but I have no fight left.  You're not alone.

[Lalathegreat]

Oh boy Samwize, you probably remember that I’m a runner too, and boy does your observation resonate.

I’m what one might consider a “grinder”. I will never be the fastest runner, but I’ve done fairly well for myself because I’ve always been willing to work as hard or harder than the average Joe. This has caused me problems at times... .amennorea from underfueling and overtraining, overuse injuries from “playing through the pain, and issues with my weight that required some intervention. Essentially what I have learned about myself is that it is FAR too easy for me to get so caught up in the “end game” that I become completely unaware of the damage I cause myself - honestly when I’m too focused I don’t even SEE the warning signs it’s so easy to keep pushing the override switch.

I’m not accusing YOU of training unwisely, But it HAS been my observation that we distance runners, as a whole, do tend to “grind” towards a greater purpose. And when you mentioned that, I found myself wondering how much my tendency to “just get through it” contributed to my inability to make the wisest choices for myself throughout the course of my relationship.

And knowing that the process of leaving would be so hard that you instinctively begin to avoid it? Yeah - I did that too. Nothing about a BPD relationship is easy. It seems that those sticking it out are doing so by pure strength of will.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Sam, If running the marriage marathon brings you joy, then I'm all for it.  On the other hand, if it's a case of "Eat, suffer and keep going," then I question whether it's worth it.  There's a quote from William Faulkner, and I'm paraphrasing here, that someone's epitaph was "he was born; he suffered; he died."  Undoubtedly we all will do all three, but maybe there's room for some happiness along the way?  LJ

[Cat Familiar]

I take commitments seriously and it took a lot to break me out of a very damaging marriage.

As a child of a BPD mother, who asked me when I was about five which parent I'd choose if she divorced my dad, I want to add my opinion about divorce. My response at that time was that I'd run away rather than make that choice. For a year or two both parents repeatedly asked me who I liked best. Ultimately they stayed together and never mentioned divorce again in my presence.

But it was a loveless marriage. My mother pushed my father away any time he tried to be physically affectionate to her. And she loudly complained whenever a TV show or movie showed kissing scenes or more. It was very damaging to me, growing up in this sort of environment, not having healthy role models for loving parents.

So yes, keeping marriage commitments can be honorable, but at what cost personally and to children?

[5min]

It has been a few days since I have been on the site. Wow! Lots of good discussion. I don't feel like anyone has hijacked it. All of your posts are helping.

It has been a rough morning. I am the devil incarnate and the cause of all her problems for the last 11 years. I'm tired of the drama, name calling, blaming, screaming, and rages. I am tired of her inability to get along and to just live. She takes everyone else out of the game. The "I am just waiting to die" hits the nail on the head. I guess I have been at this tipping point for some time hence the original post. Today I am out of empathy, sympathy, and love. I expect no change. I don't want to go home tonight, but there's no other option for now.

I can relate to commitment. I take it serious and doing so has tried my faith to near breaking. I get that the answer is "No, she will not get better."

[Mrb87]

I hit my limit when he made feel like I was raising a child again. I feel like i was getting nowhere and I saw no growth or improvement and I was getting nothing from the relationship but stress. I tried to be strick, caring, solving his mistakes, cheering him up, steering him in the right direction but his mind was too damaged and I didn't wanna b dragged down with him and lose my way of life and thinking. So I had to chose me or him and I chose me. I hurt at first but when u feel ur energy being sucked from and u see urself start to change in the mirror you'll say awww hell nah it's time to go . Love isn't that hard and it shouldn't be and it shouldn't make u hate it.  So basically when his actions forced me to put my care and energy back into myself that when I had enough. At first I was scared he would move on and find someone else but then I realized their BPD isn't gonna end or get better with someone the same cycle would just repeat and if I didn't  leave i would be stucked into it for life and I don't want that burden

[ateu]

I agree with Mrb87, I felt like I had an adoptive child to take care of - a very troubled one at that. All my time was spent taking care of his never ending problems in all areas of life. As soon as we sorted something out, he would mess it up again.

That, combined with his cheating (both physical and emotional at several times). There were no trust left after this occurred.

I also figured out he never listened to what I wanted out of the relationship. If he wanted something, he really needed it NOW, and I had to be ok with that or all hell would break loose.

He had double standards for what was acceptable for me to do, and what was acceptable for him. If he felt I disrespected him, I tried to change so he wouldn't feel like that. When I felt he disrespected me, he just laughed it off, I was always "overreacting", always "too jealous", always "too fixated on money", always "too cold".

There were many things that should have made me say "enough is enough" a long time ago. Life is hard enough as it is, I can't stay with someone that makes it so much harder.

[Mrb87]

i had the same exact problem. if he need something or wanted to complete something on his selfish bucket list (which were only things he liked or things he did so his ex would like him again or feel some type of jealousy but fronted like his list was for us) we HAD to do it or the tantrum would begin. i NEVER once cheated on him but all his words and the way he spoke to me, he tried to make it sound like i was cheating or doing something hidden and i did him wrong took and took the trust out of the relationship and he needed to get revenge on me. There would be days when i would leave him on a good note and come back and he would hate me for no reason and create a strange feeling in the air and i would be so confused. i would ask what wrong and he would say "nothing God's ___ing with my life once more. why doesnt he just kill me." hearing statements like that killed the mood in every way and and he would make them %90 of the time

[Cat Familiar]

There would be days when i would leave him on a good note and come back and he would hate me for no reason and create a strange feeling in the air and i would be so confused. i would ask what wrong and he would say "nothing God's ___ing with my life once more. why doesnt he just kill me."

It's hard to understand the depths of self-loathing pwBPD feel. These sorts of moods can be triggered by nothing external. They might suddenly fall into a major funk because of something they've remembered, something they see on TV, feeling disrespected at the grocery store, who knows?

And then they are very unpleasant to us, the person who loves them.

My husband was going through old letters some time ago and found one from his first wife, who he married when he was a teenager. She broke up with him shortly afterwards. In her letter, she stated that he had no ability to be introspective and realize how his moods impacted her.

Well, many decades later, I'd say she was spot on. Very enlightened and observant for one so young!

[Enabler]

Well, many decades later, I'd say she was spot on. Very enlightened and observant for one so young!

The joys of emails... .when I was trying anchor my sanity in facts recently I found an email from '07 (second time she left and came back) basically saying exactly the same things as I would say today. I even found a letter I posted under her university dorm from '97 (6m into the relationship) door saying the similar things. Siiiigh!

[Cat Familiar]

The joys of emails... .when I was trying anchor my sanity in facts recently I found an email from '07 (second time she left and came back) basically saying exactly the same things as I would say today. I even found a letter I posted under her university dorm from '97 (6m into the relationship) door saying the similar things. Siiiigh!

Maya Angelou on Twitter: ""When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."