Flirting with danger?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Advice please:

It's been seven months since I last saw my exBPDgf.  I am light years ahead of where I was during the crisis break up time.   I've never had such dark days.  Now -- I'm in a new relationship, my job is going great, I've reconnected with friends and family.  And I still think about exBPDgf  every day.

By way of review, the break up was ugly --- she was driving me crazy with shaming, abandonment fears, walking on eggshells, rage attacks out of the blue --- all the typical things you read on these posts.  So I sought advice from a yoga friend (girl) and I didn't tell the exBPDgf that I was spending time with yoga girl -- honestly just talking about my relationship struggles with the exBPD gf(I wasn't allowed to have female friends).  When exBPDgf found out I was the root of all evil, she trashed my apartment, ubered out and flew away (for the 10th time at least) and she shut me out completely -- blocked, deleted, no contact -- except for pics of her and her new thug ex con bf.

Anywhoo... .fast forward seven months -- I wished her parents a Happy Thanksgiving the other day, and they texted back that exBPDgf still loves me and they wish I could fix it.  They want to talk to me.  This follows a few texts from exBPDgf that were kind enough, but with a subtext of how I screwed everything up.

I'm going to meet her parents tonight and tell my half of the story.  That all of this didn't come from nowhere.  I'm going to tell them I never loved anyone more than I loved their daughter, that she is very special.  I'm going to tell them about their daughter.

The more she had me the more she put me through hell.  She had no appreciation for the money I put into her new home, my repair of her car, my moving her stuff, my paying for the storage, my feeding her. 

In fact as time went on, she increasingly shamed me, gave me all kinds trouble EVERY time I was with my children, accusing me of not being good to her, leaving me over the silliest perceived slight -- I want to tell them that NO MAN would put up with what I put up with -- I want to tell them I think she has BPD.

I want to tell them that we both want the same thing, her parents and me -- we both want her happiness.  But clearly what she's been doing the last 30 years hasn't been making her happy.  Married three times.  Broke.  No true friends.  She needs therapy.  I want to offer to pay for it, and even go with her if that is whats needed.

I feel like its the last piece of the puzzle that will help my soul truly rest.  I still want to fix her.  And maybe selfishly exonerate myself.  I do love her.

I would never be back with her.  The fact that she can shut me out so completely for seven months, my darkest days,  and all of the sudden remember she loves me?  And there is no way I would ever touch her again after God knows what she's been involved in these last seven months.  Literally grosses me out.

And I know her parents may be insulted, especially by BPD -- because they were neglectful.  But I don't believe that's the root of her illness.  She had other hardships they don't even know.  And I won't tell them.

I do love her.  And I want to fix her.  And I feel somehow responsible.  Which is of course the root of this whole freaking drama.  Who the heck do I think I am to fix anybody?

But I'm going to do it anyway.

Mistake?

[Seenowayout]

Advice please:

It's been seven months since I last saw my exBPDgf.  I am light years ahead of where I was during the crisis break up time.   I've never had such dark days.  Now -- I'm in a new relationship, my job is going great, I've reconnected with friends and family.  And I still think about exBPDgf  every day.

By way of review, the break up was ugly --- she was driving me crazy with shaming, abandonment fears, walking on eggshells, rage attacks out of the blue --- all the typical things you read on these posts.  So I sought advice from a yoga friend (girl) and I didn't tell the exBPDgf that I was spending time with yoga girl -- honestly just talking about my relationship struggles with the exBPD gf(I wasn't allowed to have female friends).  When exBPDgf found out I was the root of all evil, she trashed my apartment, ubered out and flew away (for the 10th time at least) and she shut me out completely -- blocked, deleted, no contact -- except for pics of her and her new thug ex con bf.

Anywhoo... .fast forward seven months -- I wished her parents a Happy Thanksgiving the other day, and they texted back that exBPDgf still loves me and they wish I could fix it.  They want to talk to me.  This follows a few texts from exBPDgf that were kind enough, but with a subtext of how I screwed everything up.

I'm going to meet her parents tonight and tell my half of the story.  That all of this didn't come from nowhere.  I'm going to tell them I never loved anyone more than I loved their daughter, that she is very special.  I'm going to tell them about their daughter.

The more she had me the more she put me through hell.  She had no appreciation for the money I put into her new home, my repair of her car, my moving her stuff, my paying for the storage, my feeding her. 

In fact as time went on, she increasingly shamed me, gave me all kinds trouble EVERY time I was with my children, accusing me of not being good to her, leaving me over the silliest perceived slight -- I want to tell them that NO MAN would put up with what I put up with -- I want to tell them I think she has BPD.

I want to tell them that we both want the same thing, her parents and me -- we both want her happiness.  But clearly what she's been doing the last 30 years hasn't been making her happy.  Married three times.  Broke.  No true friends.  She needs therapy.  I want to offer to pay for it, and even go with her if that is whats needed.

I feel like its the last piece of the puzzle that will help my soul truly rest.  I still want to fix her.  And maybe selfishly exonerate myself.  I do love her.

I would never be back with her.  The fact that she can shut me out so completely for seven months, my darkest days,  and all of the sudden remember she loves me?  And there is no way I would ever touch her again after God knows what she's been involved in these last seven months.  Literally grosses me out.

And I know her parents may be insulted, especially by BPD -- because they were neglectful.  But I don't believe that's the root of her illness.  She had other hardships they don't even know.  And I won't tell them.

I do love her.  And I want to fix her.  And I feel somehow responsible.  Which is of course the root of this whole freaking drama.  Who the heck do I think I am to fix anybody?

But I'm going to do it anyway.

Mistake?

[Seenowayout]

I regret that post

Her parents couldn't see me. Their advice was if I moved down here permanently she might be willing to make it work

I go back and forth between two businesses -- one up north where I live and one down south where she lives and I have a second business

I have a 14 year old son up north who needs me.  How can I dessert him?  I love him so much.  I have a growing business up north I've worked all my life for.   I have friends and family up there.  How could giving that all up to be all hers all the time  even be an option?

Im a fool. I officially quit.  People are selfish

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

There was no love there. There never was.  Everything was and continues to be the opposite of 2 Corinthians 13.

I'm done worrying about her. 

People are so selfish

[itgetsbetter94]

That Epistle to the Corithians on Love is the first gift my ex gave me on our first date. It meant world to me. To him, it was probably just a manipulation tactic. And he was the religious one, and I was agnostic.  Funny, nothing is sacred in the eyes of peoole with BPD- nothing.

I'm glad you stepped back from your plan. What's the point.
Her parents also sound "off" to me- she "might" come back to you if you return to her town. Come on. There's a meme that comes to my mind... .B**** please! 

You have a new life, new r/s, work is doing fine, everything is in excellent order- why in the world would you put your toe back into the toxic BPD waters? No, no, no... .Be grateful for what you have and don't look back.

[Kelli Cornett]

I think it's good you have stopped caring. You have a girlfriend and your life is going well. Why would you even think about ruining that?


Plus she clearly doesn't seem to care about you.


Stay on the right path

[Skip]

My guess is that her parents told her of the meeting and she balked... .understandably, well intentioned and understandably, a bit violating at the same time.

pwBPD can be pretty perceptive.

I think she knew that if you wee going to reconnect, it would be you and her and would have some romantic side to it. Going through her parents generally signals some reckoning.

The response may not be as you are interpreting it. If one of my exs who I still had "eyes" for wanted to meet with my parents, I would not be receptive, either.

And I still think about exBPDgf  every day.

What do you think about?

[Pretty Woman]

What stood out to me is you already have the answer you seek:

Everything you have worked for and loved is up North, your child, your business. Imagine if you gave all that up to suit her (and she has compromised NOTHING) and she still ends up leaving?

You will hate yourself more for giving up on you and your dreams.

You are no longer in a relationship with this woman. It sounds like communicating with her parents re-opened feelings which made you long for what "could have been".

the reality is, she is not there. She has no intention of working towards re-engagement and now an old wound has been reopened.

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs."----I gave my ex this as a plaque after one blow out. At the final discard I found it shattered outside the community garbage cans. The BPD relationship is none of those things. It is the opposite.

What do YOU want, Seenowayout?

[Seenowayout]

Here's the thing. I don't want her back that way. I get it. There's  no way I'm going back to a relationship with her. Too many people are dependent on me to waste myself on that madness

But for two years she was my best friend. We were partners in crime. We talked all day long every day for two years. We swam, we laughed, we rode, we sang, we prayed, we kayaked, we walked the length of Manhattan, we cried in an alleyway, we shopped, we ate, we made love,  we planned, we built a home, we shared our most intimate thoughts

And then she was gone. Gone.  Poof. Dead.

It's like my best friend died. Overnight. 8 months ago next week.  Who's counting?

 I'm in mourning. I'm chasing a ghost.  I don't want a relationship with her. I just want to know she's happy.   I miss her friendship

I will never understand the discard. I will never understand how she can be the opposite of 2corinthians13. I don't understand how I loved someone who didn't know what love is. I too sent that quote to her many times after fights and rages and I  never got a response. I knew she was the opposite of that. I guess she did too . That's why she never commented on it. Not her fault. She just wasn't capable. Love. It's unconditional. There's no ego.  It will make a man leave his home. Humiliate himself

i tell myself -- "all that pain I'm feeling. She feels it too. And her way of dealing with it is to discard me."  My way of dealing with it would be to hug her.

I'll be the bigger one. Ill carry the wound. I'll think about her every day.

And I'll be here to answer the phone when she misses me again. When something triggers a softness in her and opens a door to communicate again

I wish I could fix her. Not so I can be with her.  But so she can be truly happy

But I quit that fantasy. I'll just pray for her

[Seenowayout]

God -- I need boundaries

[MeandThee29]

It's rotten all around. My pwBPD and I had several decades and two children together. I still love him. But we can't be together as it was, and he's seemingly gone his own way now. When the trouble started building, he talked about finding someone "better," so I wonder if he's done that. That's hard to think about.

Yes, set your boundaries. For a time I thought we'd be working this out sooner rather than later. Now the whole picture is very cloudy, and I've had to come to the point that this may be it. I was very down about that in October and November, but am coming out of it now.

Hang in there. It does get better.

[Skip]

This follows a few texts from exBPDgf that were kind enough, but with a subtext of how I screwed everything up.

Is this what you also want to do... .express caring with a subtext (to the parents) that she screwed everything up?

This is not a great place from which to rekindle a relationship... .diving into the darkness from before.

[Enabler]

Seenowayout, family dynamics are a funny one. The family has grown up together, often balancing itself to keep the internal emotional weightings stable. Families often rest precariously on a knife-edge "working" under some yoda force unknown to the external onlooker. You may look from the outside or even from the inside and think "everyone knows about the elephant in the room", the family members may even openly discuss it casually with you or pass comment about specific behaviors... .but the old saying of "bloods thicker than water", you try messing with that family system, however dysfunctional, by trying to address the elephant and there's a high chance that you will run up against the family defenses. I can see that you are trying to do the right thing (although as Skip points out, are you trying to put the blame and shame in the right place, correct the narrative to your version of events?) and you want her to get the help that YOU think she needs, but you've run into the dysfunctional family defense system.

Think about how this looks to the players involved... .Since the last thing a pwBPD can tolerate is shame, let alone shame from her own family, she will fiercely defend your ability to cast shame on her via her parents. Likewise her parents likely feel shame themselves since she is a reflection of their ability as parents... .MOVE ALONG, NOTHING TO SEE HERE... .

[tryingsome]

Can a be a bit frank with my questions? You say you love her.
So what is it about her personality do you admire and love?
I see reference to all the excursions and fun times, but nothing about her personality.
Incidentally, you can find that in friends and family.

Now unless you are referring to the beginning and I see a ton about her personality.
But most of those words shed a bad light on her.

Sometimes we have to ask the tough questions about ourselves.
Did we enjoy this person for how they made us feel at times, propelled us into care-taker and role-model?
Did we feel invigorated from being needed? 
If did we love them for who they are (and this could be true for you);  if that is the case the problems could be solved.

[Seenowayout]

Wow.  I just love this board and you guys.  So much insight.  thank you.

To be very clear -- I don't want to go back to the relationship.  I love my new gf, she's crazy about me, my job is banging, my friends are back in the fold, my family is needing me and surrounding me -- everything in my life is so good and drama free right now.  Why on earth would I upset that.

But I am haunted still.   

Is it my guilt for being just another guy who could't live up to her needs?  Is it my outrage that I was treated so badly by her, and I can't get an ounce of sympathy from anyone on her side?  Is it my fear and sadness for her, that she will never be happy?  I think it's all of the above but mostly that last one.

I'm still trying to fix her.  Such arrogance on my part.  She doesn't want it, I can't do it anyway.  And who am I to say she's broken.  if she wants to live her life like a professional victim -- that's her perogative.  Have at it loser!   Oh but I keep thinking of all the pain she felt in her life and it breaks my heart.

Enabler -- you are right about family.  They are terrified of her, have their own guilt comples.  And she's so convincing.
Skip -- you are right to question my motives.  I think I was looking for a little sympathy
Prettywoman, Itgetsbetter, Rubbersoul -- thanks for the encouragement.  I've given the same advice to others, good to hear it given back.
Tryingsome -- hmmmmm now that's a question I've been asking myself too

I loved her when she was sane.  When she was tender and childlike.  When she was vulnerable.  When she was funny.  When she loved me.  When we shared.

But that wasn't the whole her.  We all have up and down moments, and I was subjected to a ton of them growing up.  My mom was major up and down.  And I love her throughout.  So I loved my exBPDgf as she struggles with all her craziness.  It's not something that can be explained.  I don't throw away my love for her just because she's angry, or hurt me.  I probably should, I just don't work that way.  Love is patient, love is kind ... .

But the shape of my love has changed, I don't want a relationship anymore.  I love myself again.  But I still love her as a friend as a sister as a person I had so much history with and I want her to be her best self.  And I want her to stop blaming me for her unhappiness.

Pretty sure I got mommy issues   

Anyway == back home to the ones that love me.  Really love me.  And want my love back.

Peace and love!

Foundawayout

[Enabler]

I read a book recently called Love Languages of your Children, the theory goes that there are 5 Love Languages and you typically have 1 primary one:

Words of affirmation
Touch
Acts of service
Gifts
Quality time


Whilst reading it I thought about how I knew I was loved by my parents... .my enduring memory of when I felt most loved by my late father (and lets be honest, a father-son relationship is pretty important for a young boy) was when I'd come off a football pitch and he'd his hand round the back of my neck in that kind of guiding way that Dads do and would say "Well done son, you did really well there, kept battling on." So my Love language is words of affirmation and physical touch. I wanted him to be proud of me.

What hurts me the most is the reciprocal of that. "You didn't try, you did a bad job."

Do you think something like this plays out in you as well? Is this what's stopping you from letting go of the need to fix her? You struggle with the idea of people (her parents, whom I guess you have grown to respect and hope they respect you as well) might think that you didn't try hard enough.

One thing my FIL said to me when I asked him if I could marry uBPDw was "Are you sure you can handle her?"... .I'll never forget that I was accepting a burden of responsibility from him at the point where I said "I'll do my best".

[Seenowayout]

It's an interesting thought Enabler.  I do respect her parents.  When her dad called to say he couldn't meet me that night, he said "look, I want you to know, you're a good guy"  -- and I confess I got a rush and thanked him for saying that.  I am, for better or for worse, a people pleaser.  Interestingly --
 one of her big, constant, shaming slurs that she just loved to throw at me (and which honestly stung every time) was that I want people to like me.  I guess I do.  Is that so bad?  Why shame me over it? 

I have an opposite story from yours.  In second grade my parents signed me up for baseball -- but they neglected to tell me how to play -- like everything else in my life I guess they just assumed this knowledge is formed in utero.  So I had no idea what was going on, I'm running in the wrong direction, getting hit by balls, throwing the wrong way.  The coach took me to my dad, and with me standing right there says "what's wrong with this kid?", and my dad said "he had a leg brace when he was a baby" -- which I didn't even know about, and as if that was the reason I didn't know you run the bases counter clockwise!  One of those small moments, from a different era, when I learned I was both a freak and a disappointment -- all in one!  So of course from that moment on I had stomach aches every night there was practice, until my parents told me I didn't have to ride my bike to the game anymore.  In hindsight, my parents really weren't very good at parenting -- and they had six of us -- but I still love them.

I don't know, that's what seems to be missing from all of this.  That unexplainable "magic" that is love.  I can't explain why, I don't know why, I don't want to know why -- and I'm a scientist.  Her brother would say it was just dopamine and serotonin.  Yuk.  Maybe.  Or maybe she and I were two people with something similar deep down inside -- we saw it in each other and cared about one another and shared our dreams and thoughts.  Until she didn't.

If it was real love I wouldn't be sitting here babbling about it Enabler.  She would be talking to me in person about it.  Meanwhile, my love is real and if she needs help I'm here.  Never a relationship, but an ear or a shoulder -- yes.  Despite the Hell she put me through.  Meanwhile, I have my life to live.

Seriously -- her loss.  Big time.

[Enabler]

You've turned over some stones there which you can think about and learn from but you also finished on a high... .you're a good man, your exs dad even said so. Her loss... .

[Enabler]

Sorry, I feel like I didn't give you anything additional to challenge yourself with.

Do you still regard yourself as a freak and a disappointment? I would suggest that this recent event points to that still being an issue for you. When I say issue I mean it leaves you vulnerable with a fragile ego. You say you're a scientist? You're no idiot then. You say you have a good friendship network where you live now, so you're not socially awkward. You've picked up a new GF with relative ease so clearly you don't have 2 heads... .although some people probably pay good money for that. You are evidentially kind, caring, loving and honourable. These are all awesome qualities... .how comes you don't believe it? I mean REALLY BELIEVE IT IN YOUR BALLS?

What do your parents think of you now? Are they proud of you? Do they tell their friends how accomplished you are, or is it a sibling that overshadows you? Regardless of how much you try and impress them?

I don't doubt your love for your ex in the slightest, I doubt it as much as I doubt the love I have for my wife. Although I'm an emotional caretaker to put a label on it, I always knew what a functional relationship should be and wanted that soo so bad.

[Tormenta]

Hi, it looks to me that you are not seeing the situation clearly.

You say that you were partners in crime and you did all those wonderful things together and you are basically shuting up all the awful things that she did, all your pain, the times that you were really hurt, how it impacted your life and your kids´life.

Listen, the bad part of her/the relationship was not a mistake or isolated incidents or things "to fix". They were part of the relationship too and they would be again, as she is in denial. By any chance didnt you write in any bad moment a diary or a letter or email that you can read now to remember how those bad moments were?

I would say this: do you want to "fix her" and you love her? She is out, then respect that.
Fix your life, fix yourself and love yourself instead, it´s a hard work too!
And then love what you actually have now, your new relationship, your kids, your bussinesses, the things that bring you actual happiness.

Best wishes.