Thanksgiving down. Christmas, New year's and all of winter to go.

[Depression = 72% of members]

So we made it past this weekend.  He did really well all things considered - I was pretty eggshelly a lot of the time, though.

Visited parents - they managed to clear off the stairs.  Yay.  His mother also is so bad at time management, she put a turkey in the oven when we got to her house at about 7:30PM with a hazy idea that would be dinner in about 3 hours.  We convinced them that we should pick up burgers, and I ended up being awake till 2AM deboning said turkey because there was no other way to fit in the overstuffed fridge.  Learned MIL was supposed to feed FIL at some point - neither had eaten all day.  This is normal for them, both being stubborn about not fixing food.  They exist on snacks and take out when a friend of theirs comes to visit.  

The house is still crazy piles of stuff in places, nowhere to sit unless I move things out of the way, and it's a bit stressful to tactfully move things to be able to cook, sit, eat, and sleep, s as not to initiate a fight or sulking on the part of the parents.  H did really, really well the whole trip, only got gripey a few times with me, and often not about ME, but how his parents won't get off the couch (literally), do little but bicker and complain about dying and how their kids won't come visit.  We were trying to not be late to the house where we were going to meet for dinner, 20 minutes away, but to do that I have to get the mom and dad moving to the car 1.5 hours before we need to arrive.  The parents are in their late 60s, but really they move and act as if they are in their late 80s.  

The lack of consistent structure, healthy outside interactions, total physical atrophy have them unable to walk more than 5 feet at a time without swelling feet, being out of breath, and almost falling.  The mom also has no realistic concept of time and the dad has given up on her being on time in any way.  Knowing her son has diabetes, and she has it, it makes perfect sense to her to wait 3.5 hours to bake a turkey for dinner that won't be ready until about 11PM.  Knowing it takes her an hour to change clothes, it makes perfect sense to not even try to get dressed until the last possible minute.  I used to think it was simple passive-aggressive "I'm going to show when it suits me!" behavior, but while I think that's a factor, because H is like that, too, but watching her this time, I could just see that in her mind, it all makes sense.  Gotta be somewhere in half an hour? Time to do all those crazy chores you never do any other time.  Go feed all outside stray cats, feed indoor cats, fiddle round with this and that, cleaning out your purse.  Getting dressed when you overheat and need to cool off for 15 minutes?  No worries, everyone else can wait.  They are just being mean and fuzzy.  Sigh.  

H feels guilty for not moving in with them, but there are no jobs in their area, it's not a particularly safe place (he refuses to let me run errands alone after dark), and we can't get them to leave the family home.  As weird as it may sound, they are still far better than my own parents.  O_o  

Basically spent several days makings sure parents and H ate in a timely manner - H helped with preparing food for his parents, so that was good.  Managed to get the place to a somewhat livable order, with clear counters.  

H did pretty good till last day there, when H wanted to get on the road in time to get home and unwind a bit.  He didn't feel like waiting around for the parents to wake up from nap #3 that day, to spend time making them another meal, and for me to stick around to clean up from that.  He was short with me because they were dozing, even though I was packed and ready and had already helped load the car.  His mood got fussy after we got home, managed to have some friends over which probably delayed the dysregulation on Sunday.  I came home a little sick, always do from their house where it's a little too cold, there are animals I'm not used to and spending a day out at the family farm trying to do something for the dad.  

By Sunday, his mood is pretty bad - it always is when we get back from his parents'.  He was ready to get rid of everything we own, he is convinced we need drastic renovations on all parts of our house, he is convinced he will be wheelchair bound in a year, he is convinced all his hobbies and creative pursuits are a waste of time and he gets stuck on suddenly being able to make money off all things he's ever painted, created.  He gets down because while he doesn't market things, he assumes if they are online, that's enough for them to sell.  He has been invited to an exhibition to show his craft items in two weeks - as of yesterday, nothing was good enough.  He's going to die any day now, etc.  I was glad Tattered posted the list of ways we could respond before the holiday.  it really helped me try to focus on "don't JADE, don't JADE."  I managed somehow to do all the things I planned to get done (clean the sheets, cook our own turkey well before 11PM, , and run errands.  To placate H a little, I took 4 boxes of stuff to Goodwill, to help clear out the room where he likes to dump things.  He thinks the solution to dumping things is to cut down walls so there is no where to hide things.  Not to simply not hold on to crap.  It got close to a fight but never quite boiled over - not sure if I magically employed great communication (hah) or if he exercvised far greater control than usual.  It got dicey trying to get him to let go of an old, broken video game system - his mom has instilled in him a disdain for getting rid of anyhting no matter how broken - I can get by taking things to Goodwill to let THEM throw them away - but it's a struggle to even get things into those boxes, no matter how much he hates clutter.  

Sigh.  One more visit in a month, another in Feb.  

[isilme]

So we made it past this weekend.  He did really well all things considered - I was pretty eggshelly a lot of the time, though.

Visited parents - they managed to clear off the stairs.  Yay.  His mother also is so bad at time management, she put a turkey in the oven when we got to her house at about 7:30PM with a hazy idea that would be dinner in about 3 hours.  We convinced them that we should pick up burgers, and I ended up being awake till 2AM deboning said turkey because there was no other way to fit in the overstuffed fridge.  Learned MIL was supposed to feed FIL at some point - neither had eaten all day.  This is normal for them, both being stubborn about not fixing food.  They exist on snacks and take out when a friend of theirs comes to visit.  

The house is still crazy piles of stuff in places, nowhere to sit unless I move things out of the way, and it's a bit stressful to tactfully move things to be able to cook, sit, eat, and sleep, s as not to initiate a fight or sulking on the part of the parents.  H did really, really well the whole trip, only got gripey a few times with me, and often not about ME, but how his parents won't get off the couch (literally), do little but bicker and complain about dying and how their kids won't come visit.  We were trying to not be late to the house where we were going to meet for dinner, 20 minutes away, but to do that I have to get the mom and dad moving to the car 1.5 hours before we need to arrive.  The parents are in their late 60s, but really they move and act as if they are in their late 80s.  

The lack of consistent structure, healthy outside interactions, total physical atrophy have them unable to walk more than 5 feet at a time without swelling feet, being out of breath, and almost falling.  The mom also has no realistic concept of time and the dad has given up on her being on time in any way.  Knowing her son has diabetes, and she has it, it makes perfect sense to her to wait 3.5 hours to bake a turkey for dinner that won't be ready until about 11PM.  Knowing it takes her an hour to change clothes, it makes perfect sense to not even try to get dressed until the last possible minute.  I used to think it was simple passive-aggressive "I'm going to show when it suits me!" behavior, but while I think that's a factor, because H is like that, too, but watching her this time, I could just see that in her mind, it all makes sense.  Gotta be somewhere in half an hour? Time to do all those crazy chores you never do any other time.  Go feed all outside stray cats, feed indoor cats, fiddle round with this and that, cleaning out your purse.  Getting dressed when you overheat and need to cool off for 15 minutes?  No worries, everyone else can wait.  They are just being mean and fuzzy.  Sigh.  

H feels guilty for not moving in with them, but there are no jobs in their area, it's not a particularly safe place (he refuses to let me run errands alone after dark), and we can't get them to leave the family home.  As weird as it may sound, they are still far better than my own parents.  O_o  

Basically spent several days makings sure parents and H ate in a timely manner - H helped with preparing food for his parents, so that was good.  Managed to get the place to a somewhat livable order, with clear counters.  

H did pretty good till last day there, when H wanted to get on the road in time to get home and unwind a bit.  He didn't feel like waiting around for the parents to wake up from nap #3 that day, to spend time making them another meal, and for me to stick around to clean up from that.  He was short with me because they were dozing, even though I was packed and ready and had already helped load the car.  His mood got fussy after we got home, managed to have some friends over which probably delayed the dysregulation on Sunday.  I came home a little sick, always do from their house where it's a little too cold, there are animals I'm not used to and spending a day out at the family farm trying to do something for the dad.  

By Sunday, his mood is pretty bad - it always is when we get back from his parents'.  He was ready to get rid of everything we own, he is convinced we need drastic renovations on all parts of our house, he is convinced he will be wheelchair bound in a year, he is convinced all his hobbies and creative pursuits are a waste of time and he gets stuck on suddenly being able to make money off all things he's ever painted, created.  He gets down because while he doesn't market things, he assumes if they are online, that's enough for them to sell.  He has been invited to an exhibition to show his craft items in two weeks - as of yesterday, nothing was good enough.  He's going to die any day now, etc.  I was glad Tattered posted the list of ways we could respond before the holiday.  it really helped me try to focus on "don't JADE, don't JADE."  I managed somehow to do all the things I planned to get done (clean the sheets, cook our own turkey well before 11PM, , and run errands.  To placate H a little, I took 4 boxes of stuff to Goodwill, to help clear out the room where he likes to dump things.  He thinks the solution to dumping things is to cut down walls so there is no where to hide things.  Not to simply not hold on to crap.  It got close to a fight but never quite boiled over - not sure if I magically employed great communication (hah) or if he exercvised far greater control than usual.  It got dicey trying to get him to let go of an old, broken video game system - his mom has instilled in him a disdain for getting rid of anyhting no matter how broken - I can get by taking things to Goodwill to let THEM throw them away - but it's a struggle to even get things into those boxes, no matter how much he hates clutter.  

Sigh.  One more visit in a month, another in Feb.  

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[RolandOfEld]

Hi Isilme, my goodness, what a thanksgiving, and it doesn't sound like anyone showed thanks for YOU. Hang in there for the rest of the visits.

[Tattered Heart]

I feel bad for your H. It sounds like being around his parents brings out a lot of negativity and childhood issues, including a fear of becoming like his parents. They have lots of clutter. Does your H also have hoarding tendencies? Do you think part of his irritation could be from the anxiety of getting rid of his clutter or more of a projection about hating his clutter because it's like his parents clutter?

My H's family has a lot of clutter and his grandpa is a "collector" of junk. (He collects stickers from bananas because he is out of things to collect). My H has a strong emotional reaction when I try to remove his junk. He once kept a motor from a vaccuum that was 30 years old because "we might need it". I remember cleaning out a closet of junk, trying to get him to separate things into keep and discard piles. It was like pulling teeth. In our last house he had a full room filled with junk. WHen we moved I said no more junk in the house. He has now filled up an outbuilding, a car that no longer works, parts of the yard, and is starting to move into the house. Waiting for warmer weather to rent a dumpster to get rid of it.

[walkinthepark247]

isilme,

I wanted you to know that I am thankful for the advice that you have given here on this thread. Please know that your posts have often meant a lot to me. I have read some of your posts and responses several times.

[isilme]

Thanks, everyone.

Roland of Eld - ever since I saw your name I wanted to share that I'm re-reading the Dark Tower series.  H liked the Gunslinger, and I got as far as maybe the 6th book and then gave up, but the movie was soo bad (IMO) I needed to verify where they went astray. 

Anyway, you might say I've accepted this as my "ka". I am wired and programmed to some extent to caretake.  And to a limit, I think that is acceptable.  It's just this time of year it gets overwhelming.  And I ended up sick after we got home - ear infection with an eardrum about to rupture from the allergens, cold house, and lack of good sleep.  H has been pretty good so far.  He usually does not deal well with me being sick, and can at times act like my health is an imposition on him, but this week he's trying, took me to the doctor, actually drive the car since my equilibrium is a mess, and did not act too cranky or upset at my being on the couch (pretty sure it reminds him of his mother who never leaves the love seat) last night. 

Tattered - yes.  I feel bad for him.  I managed through the scorched earth response of total NC to divest myself as much as possible of my own parents.  He cannot/has not.  Yes - he attaches emotion to "things".  His parents are hoarders, his brother recently admitted to having to fight a hoarding situation since they needed to move.  The older sister fights it by being a neat freak. 

I am in the middle.  I have a threshold for clutter, then things need to go.  H just fights me on it, and I can't get him to allow me to simply take things out of the house unless I can ensure a perfect home for them.  Every item might as well be a puppy.

I grew up moving as an Army brat - what did not fit the truck allowance got donated/trashed.  Cleaning my room as a child often consisted of sweeping everything to the middle and having no trouble tossing a lot of things.  I do Goodwill purges of my own clothes and personal items regularly.  H had a hard time letting go of clothes he can't wear that are like 3 sizes too big unless I was in the room.

This Sunday, H pointed to things, asking what they were, trying to "prove" I was the one making a mess in the office.  I had to be like, those are tray you won't let me get rid of.  That is not mine, that is a friend's.  This is my fabric bag, let me go ut things away, they fit in my desk but this was a quick way to clean up when guests were coming.  H struggles to let go.  So yes, he has hoarding tendencies. 

He does not want to be his parents, but he engages in self-fulfilling prophecies that could lead him down that road if I don't help show him another way.  I see visiting them like going into the swamp of sadness in the Neverending story.  I've got to be Atreyu trying to keep Artax from sinking in the mud.  There can be nicer points to the visits.  But I think more than 2 nights pushes us into a very rough territory.  Like he can deal with their off-schedules and poor time management okay for about 2 days.  Anything more and it just becomes so clear how badly they choose - CHOOSE to live.  I know other people in their late 60s.  They have not given us for dead, they go on trips, they work to stay healthy, they are active, and enjoy retirement as much as they can.  They do not simply sit on a loveseat, wearing an adult diaper because getting up to pee is too troublesome   It's not just age, or health.  It's choices. 

I will say the pre-holiday communication exercise was really really good to do. 

Thank you, walkinthepark.  I just ramble on here - I find writing helps me try to solidify my own thoughts.  I know things can feel so out of control, and it hurts so much to know your loved one just won't see light in the world, and insists on wallowing in pain.  Writing helps, and "talking" on here helps. 

[RolandOfEld]

Hi isilme, I'm rereading them right now, too! Ironically, I fell in love with these books while looking for an escape from my family drama as a teenager, when all the real problems started, and formed a very strong emotional attachment to ehm. Now they are serving a similar function as my emotional escape on the subway ride home before I get home and the real work begins. But it is more than that. Now as an adult I am relating much more deeply to all of the complicated emotions expressed in the books: guilt, atonement, love, managing complex relationships, etc. I see myself as always have been questing for my own "Tower", which is a peaceful life, and in a way, discovering my wife's BPD and my co-dependency is like finally finding the Beam. I feel like I have a path to walk and if I just follow it straight, I will get to my Tower. I am also relating to the books' emphasis on the importance of the journey itself and finding joy in it alone (Sorry to everyone who hasn't read the books and can't get all the references).