Has anyone been the subject of NC/LC?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Small background-
uBPDw
Separation 09/16-12/17 moves back in as counselling failed
Divorce request 03/17
Divorce mediation auctioned 10/17
Claims I have been verbally and emotionally abusive for entire marriage of 16yrs
3 daughters 9/7/4

Recently I am getting the feeling that my wife is attempting to reduce contact with me. She spends a lot of time on whatsap to a group of cheerleaders. She has been given strong support from the group in the past with accusations of me being NPD and a coercive controller. It couldn't be further from the truth but you'll have to take my word for that as none of you know me.

To the point... .in much the same way that many people on the board go NC with their abusive partners in an attempt to get them out of their lives, my guess is that 'the cheerleaders' will be advising my wife to do the same. I'm used to the silent treatment but this seems to be a new thing where she might start a conversation with me, then ignore my responses all day long intentionally. Sometimes we'll even have a flurry of a conversation, she'll get what she needs and then that's it. It just stays 2x grey tick and never goes blue. Odd hey! I don't think this is an intentional attempt to annoy me, but maybe it's her way of emotionally detaching from me and saying "I don't care about you".

[Enabler]

Small background-
uBPDw
Separation 09/16-12/17 moves back in as counselling failed
Divorce request 03/17
Divorce mediation auctioned 10/17
Claims I have been verbally and emotionally abusive for entire marriage of 16yrs
3 daughters 9/7/4

Recently I am getting the feeling that my wife is attempting to reduce contact with me. She spends a lot of time on whatsap to a group of cheerleaders. She has been given strong support from the group in the past with accusations of me being NPD and a coercive controller. It couldn't be further from the truth but you'll have to take my word for that as none of you know me.

To the point... .in much the same way that many people on the board go NC with their abusive partners in an attempt to get them out of their lives, my guess is that 'the cheerleaders' will be advising my wife to do the same. I'm used to the silent treatment but this seems to be a new thing where she might start a conversation with me, then ignore my responses all day long intentionally. Sometimes we'll even have a flurry of a conversation, she'll get what she needs and then that's it. It just stays 2x grey tick and never goes blue. Odd hey! I don't think this is an intentional attempt to annoy me, but maybe it's her way of emotionally detaching from me and saying "I don't care about you".

[Meili]

I would venture a guess that a great number of us have been through similar situations, I know that I did.

What are you doing when she does that?

[Enabler]

A) chuckling a little as it plays into my confirmation bias
B) wondering what the motivation is, does she still believe the abuse narrative and is therefore trying to block me out, fluctuate in her belief about the abuse narrative hence why she starts communication then stops... .or is just very clinical and has reached apathy which is probably the most likely and least preferable of my fantasy outcomes.
C) pleased that on some level my changed behaviour from confrontational to non-confrontational is having some kind of reaction
D) concerned I'm deluded

[Meili]

Is she aware of any of that? We cannot forget that pwBPD are very accustomed to reading emotions and non-verbal cues.

Or, are you keeping things like and cheery?

[Enabler]

Very light and cheery, super dad, just done all the ironing, complimented the dinner, very accommodative, asked her how her day was, didn't get at all annoyed about the contradictory comments of "I'm so busy and have so much work to do... .but I went for a really long bike ride today"... .still smiling... ."oh, D9 was off school today with slap face virus... .but I just dropped her off at mum and dads so I could go for my bike ride... .it was very tiring... .!"... .STILL SMILING YOU ENTITLED... .SMILE!

But I can make sense of it now and I find that comforting, I'm not expecting her to think the same way as me, I'm not even expecting her to think in the way she says she thinks. I have no expectations that her words = her actions. I count anything and everything as a plus.

[limetaste]

Yes. Did almost 1½ years with a possible wifeBPD. Shortly after she broke up with me abruptly from nowhere about 6 weeks ago (she wasn't in love with me anymore, I made her feel unhappy and I didn't respect her). I got devalued and painted black in a matter of minutes. I contacted her shortly after she moved out in the morning but she was extremly mad so she just argued when I was trying to talk sense into her. Blamed me for her feeling like crap.

This was the second breakup we've been through, although the first one (happened this spring) I kind of deserved. Of course there have been many of those "micro breakups" that lasts like half a day or a whole day. I don't count them in.

Anyway. Later she blocked me everywhere, except e-mail I think. I still tried to reach out to her a handfull of occasions but never got a response. I made a new account on a social media maybe a week ago to ask her what I should do with her stuff and that I could drive it home to her and put on her stairway (a TV and some other stuff). She later actually answered and told me I could throw it all away, and told me to respect her will in that she doesn't want me to contact her. So yes, she's doing the NC against me. I don't like to play games but I regret I didn't go NC myself right after she moved out.

This can be a form of protection for themselves as they truly believe we've the reason for causing their anxiety and emptiness right now when we are painted black. The only thing one can do really is to get back on your feet and move forward. There's a chance the exBPD will try to contact you/get back together but one can never count on it. Move forward and another tip is to don't drink as much as I'm doing to cope with this hell.

Oh yeah. She also claims I have been "emotionally abusive" to her the whole relationship aswell. This is kind of heartbreaking for me to hear, I never cared about or loved a person this much before. I've always tried to be there for her and help her even if I'm not a saint. I've always put her first and saw her as my soul mate.

[Enabler]

Hey limetaste, this is my wife of 16yrs. I see her every day.

To add to the weirdness, tomorrow we're going on a family trip to the city, to see the lights, visit a huge toy shop and then go out for a family dinner together. Maybe there is a rational reason for this, such as she's doing it for the kiddies... .but are people who are supposed to be getting a divorce in the spring supposed to be doing the happy family thing? I know it was my idea but she seemed very keen. Push pull push pull push pull. Next I'll be getting a hand hold!

[Enabler]

All this after an email on Monday exclaiming how I'd invaded her privacy and acted abusively towards her as well as her want to speed up the house sale process... .arrrrggggg

[limetaste]

All this after an email on Monday exclaiming how I'd invaded her privacy and acted abusively towards her as well as her want to speed up the house sale process... .arrrrggggg

So, you and her still live together? How old is she and have you experienced her BPD-traits before, earlier in the relationship? I've read up about hormonal imbalances, and that it can trigger BPD-traits like crazy, even if we're not talking about a full spectrum BPD. You see it often in pre-menopaus with females above 35 years of age that are starting to get into menopaus. It's not uncommon even at those early ages.

I wouldn't really call your case for pure "NC" since she seems to break it all the time, initiating contact then ignores you. It can more be a matter of a control-thing for her, doing this sets her in control, which is very important for BPD's to feel. It can also be a form of "abuse", she wants to punish you.

I'm not exactly familiar with the terms "uBPDw" does this mean she's undiagnosed?

It's important also to adress that many BPD-traits is very similar to mental symptoms in sex hormone-imbalances, which could be easily managable with the right treatment. Also, like I mention above, a relationship with a high function BPD or a person with BPD-traits will most likely become more sicker when entering menopaus (pre-menopaus) or starting/stopping with birth control pills. The relatonship could've been some what manageable before, and now sh*t has hit the fan.  

Last but not least, check this thread, it's about "silent treatment" which is more likely what she's doing to you rather than a NC: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=68733.0

[Enabler]

So... .here's the history numbers are age

14-18 - long term boyfriend, cheated on him all the time, massive public rage, hitting and self harm
18 - meets me
18-25 - public rage, huge mood swings. Behaved better when on combined pill. Had a period of time on the mini pill (progesterone only) and was frankly near suicidal. Constantly accusing me of affair probably because that's what she was doing. Abused booze a lot, was a big pot smoker up till 2000 as well. Married at 21 (year 2001), first 3 years a nightmare constant abandonment fears and would go ape every time I suggested going for a drink with colleagues after work. Left me in 2003 after lots of anger from me, I totally lost it due to constant push pull and disappointment marriage was a joke. Constantly telling me I was a bad husband.
25 -28 came back and did alpha Christian course. Good but arms length relationship
28 - (2007) left me again for not apparent reason, went to counselling and then approached her mum and dad about emotional abuse when she was younger (their reaction was "I have no idea what you're talking about", I have seen mum in action and it's BPD through and through... .father has his head in the sand and stays out of it... .ignores).
29-34 - she comes back, we have 3 girls now 9/7/4, things pretty settled and o think she got what she wanted. She was very demanding and always a bit of a victim but on the whole probably calmer than me whom was suffering with a lot of anxiety holding things together, isolated from mates and family to an extent, relationship was better though.
35-38 - diagnosed with early onset menopause, stopped taking the pill as I had a vasectomy, I became bad husband again, argued more as she was saying one thing and doing another, she was a stay at home mum but didn't really take her role seriously whilst I was getting up and out at 5am and back at 7pm. Couldn't keep to any type of sensible budget and didn't want to take responsibility for anything. Had an emotional/physical affair whilst ironically becoming more and spiritual. Became more and more paranoid after the death of my father where I became emotionally unavailable and suffering depression about dad and general existence. Emotional affair kinda continuing, I was kicked out for 3m under the banner of me being abisive (I wasn't, I was just calling her out on the bad behaviour and general irresponsible attitude). Moved back in and she called for a divorce in mar17. She called the lawyers in oct after making a police report about me stalking and accessesing communications, mainly to find out what was going on with the affair.

We have suspected moods come from hormones for years, however I disagree. Hormones are contributory to the issue. They are a factor. The add to the emotions and get her closer to dysregulation. BPD is always there. I see BPD like a glass... .you add water (emotions), that could be work stress, kid stress, holiday stress, childhood trauma (that's always present and fills half the glass)... .and hormonal stress. Not all these factors make you dysregule, BUT added together into the glass and they overflow, this is the point of dysregulation. The same result could be achieved through any combination of factors... .grief for example. But when it spills over the result is the same and the maladapted coping mechanisms are the same... .men... .drink... .pushing people away. So yes, I agree hormones and peri-menopause are definitely factors, but they are factors, not the underlying issue.

Incidentally she's gone on the coil, a progesterone only slow drip feed, possibly the worst thing she could have done given her experience in 98-99.

I discovered BPD in April and cried a lot. She doesn't accept and has no awareness of her behaviour, but then neither does her mother

[Enabler]

My question on NC was more based on the fact that o believe her friends whom think I'm abusive (based on her account of emotional abuse) have advised her to go NC with me.

[limetaste]

So... .here's the history numbers are age

14-18 - long term boyfriend, cheated on him all the time, massive public rage, hitting and self harm
18 - meets me
18-25 - public rage, huge mood swings. Behaved better when on combined pill. Had a period of time on the mini pill (progesterone only) and was frankly near suicidal. Constantly accusing me of affair probably because that's what she was doing. Abused booze a lot, was a big pot smoker up till 2000 as well. Married at 21 (year 2001), first 3 years a nightmare constant abandonment fears and would go ape every time I suggested going for a drink with colleagues after work. Left me in 2003 after lots of anger from me, I totally lost it due to constant push pull and disappointment marriage was a joke. Constantly telling me I was a bad husband.
25 -28 came back and did alpha Christian course. Good but arms length relationship
28 - (2007) left me again for not apparent reason, went to counselling and then approached her mum and dad about emotional abuse when she was younger (their reaction was "I have no idea what you're talking about", I have seen mum in action and it's BPD through and through... .father has his head in the sand and stays out of it... .ignores).
29-34 - she comes back, we have 3 girls now 9/7/4, things pretty settled and o think she got what she wanted. She was very demanding and always a bit of a victim but on the whole probably calmer than me whom was suffering with a lot of anxiety holding things together, isolated from mates and family to an extent, relationship was better though.
35-38 - diagnosed with early onset menopause, stopped taking the pill as I had a vasectomy, I became bad husband again, argued more as she was saying one thing and doing another, she was a stay at home mum but didn't really take her role seriously whilst I was getting up and out at 5am and back at 7pm. Couldn't keep to any type of sensible budget and didn't want to take responsibility for anything. Had an emotional/physical affair whilst ironically becoming more and spiritual. Became more and more paranoid after the death of my father where I became emotionally unavailable and suffering depression about dad and general existence. Emotional affair kinda continuing, I was kicked out for 3m under the banner of me being abisive (I wasn't, I was just calling her out on the bad behaviour and general irresponsible attitude). Moved back in and she called for a divorce in mar17. She called the lawyers in oct after making a police report about me stalking and accessesing communications, mainly to find out what was going on with the affair.

We have suspected moods come from hormones for years, however I disagree. Hormones are contributory to the issue. They are a factor. The add to the emotions and get her closer to dysregulation. BPD is always there. I see BPD like a glass... .you add water (emotions), that could be work stress, kid stress, holiday stress, childhood trauma (that's always present and fills half the glass)... .and hormonal stress. Not all these factors make you dysregule, BUT added together into the glass and they overflow, this is the point of dysregulation. The same result could be achieved through any combination of factors... .grief for example. But when it spills over the result is the same and the maladapted coping mechanisms are the same... .men... .drink... .pushing people away. So yes, I agree hormones and peri-menopause are definitely factors, but they are factors, not the underlying issue.

Incidentally she's gone on the coil, a progesterone only slow drip feed, possibly the worst thing she could have done given her experience in 98-99.

I discovered BPD in April and cried a lot. She doesn't accept and has no awareness of her behaviour, but then neither does her mother

The underlying issue could definitely be BPD, by reading about her history that you wrote, this would be my guess. But as you say, and her age, the hormones might be a huge factor that adds fuel to the fire. You've been with her for so many years so you could easily tell when her mood got worse (it was worse before I know, but when the hormones started to become in imbalance).

Why I am adressing this issue is because my ex girlfriend (with BPD'traits) stopped taking her combined birth-control pills I saw a huge worsening in her symptoms. She's only 25 years old, but it doesn't matter, what matters is the change in sex hormones and the imbalance, which triggers BPD traits.

A female in menopaus needs both supplement of progesteron, and estrogen. High estrogen will lower progesteron, and high progesteron will lower estrogen. You need both these hormones to be at their equilibrium.

But, we can conclude that our "conclusion" problably is right. Would this change anything? How can you take this conclusion and help her? Even if she fixes her hormones, she needs therapy (DBT) in order to cope with her BPD and live a manageable life. If she has painted you black she won't listen to this, it will be nonsense to her and she will feel like you're only out to get her. What does she think about this, have she thought about her symptoms getting worse due to hormonal imbalances?

Let me hit you up with two studies aswell, which make our theory even more interesting:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4516641/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2700629/

[Enabler]

I mentioned hormonal changes inarriage counselling back in Dec last year. The terrible counsellor actually said after I'd emotionally come out with the hormonal arguement and said "what's your point". I have never felt so deflated. At the time I was desperate to understand where the about turn had come from in our relationship and why I had been painted black. If only I had spent more time working it all out and coupling BPD with hormones I may well have had a better reception. She was an appalling counsellor though. So bias

[Enabler]

Her level of paranoia at the moment is off the charts. Even the smallest detail of her life like me knowing she was on a course today (which she told me) she was freaked out how I knew. Every little detail I know about her is as though I can see into her mind or I have a tracking device on her. I know I've done my fair share of snooping but not enough to warrant this level of freak out. There's nothing I can do to reduce the emotional extreme she seems to want to hug. It's insane... .I suppose literally.

[barnowl]

Good heavens, what a fantastic thread, resonating all over the place with me right now. First off on the hormone front, now that you mention it... .early in our relationship (20 years ago) we had BPD-like issues that I suspect were related to hormones... .she was on implant birth control and when she went off that and transitioned to the pill things got tough (eye-opening to experience PMS for the first time in a relationship when you're already 2+ years in). Then after we were done having kids in 2011 I had a vasectomy and around the same time my testosterone levels dropped through the floor (I didn't know for a few years). So she's gone off hormonal birth control and then in 2014 I go on testosterone replacement... .leading to all sorts of shenanigans on both of our parts. Now, she's 47 and I suspect menopause is playing a role in all of our recent BPD-like horrors.

Not a damn thing I can do about any of that. I mean, I could go off my testosterone but then I'd be alive and just feel like death.

The other thing that happened to me today was first thing in the morning she approached me with "me and my whole family think you are crazy and we are worried about you after the divorce and also you're abusing me" - with is like an *exact* 180° of what things look like from my side. It's like a movie where the twist at the end is I'm the one who's crazy with BPD and I've actually ruined my wife's life and everything I thought I knew was a lie.

Except I can't remember the last time I got angry at her for something other than her getting irrationally angry at me.

[limetaste]

Good heavens, what a fantastic thread, resonating all over the place with me right now. First off on the hormone front, now that you mention it... .early in our relationship (20 years ago) we had BPD-like issues that I suspect were related to hormones... .she was on implant birth control and when she went off that and transitioned to the pill things got tough (eye-opening to experience PMS for the first time in a relationship when you're already 2+ years in). Then after we were done having kids in 2011 I had a vasectomy and around the same time my testosterone levels dropped through the floor (I didn't know for a few years). So she's gone off hormonal birth control and then in 2014 I go on testosterone replacement... .leading to all sorts of shenanigans on both of our parts. Now, she's 47 and I suspect menopause is playing a role in all of our recent BPD-like horrors.

Not a damn thing I can do about any of that. I mean, I could go off my testosterone but then I'd be alive and just feel like death.

The other thing that happened to me today was first thing in the morning she approached me with "me and my whole family think you are crazy and we are worried about you after the divorce and also you're abusing me" - with is like an *exact* 180° of what things look like from my side. It's like a movie where the twist at the end is I'm the one who's crazy with BPD and I've actually ruined my wife's life and everything I thought I knew was a lie.

Except I can't remember the last time I got angry at her for something other than her getting irrationally angry at me.

Thank you. I have been taking up this hormonal imbalances-thing and how it effects BPD recently but the mods didn't really seem interested. But it is a great factor into triggering BPD-behaviour. We got two studies here too prove it. We got you guys here with menospaus-females. We need more guys like me with BPD's that quitted the pills and had their hormones f*cked up.

What do you mean that you can't do anything and then saying you can stop doing testosteron? I get non of this? What would you stepping of TRT do? Are you horny and she doesn't want to have sex, and this is a major impact?

What BPD's say is mostly BLACK/WHITE but it has some sort of reasoning in it when you think about it. The problem is they portray things you did or how you acted as a FULL PICTURE - if, painted black. We NON's are never perfect, nor will we ever be. We've made mistakes in our relationships, and how couldn't we? We walked on egg-shells for most of the time. But, learning about BPD, understanding it, it will prevent the rollercoaster from getting to misery at times.

[barnowl]

What do you mean that you can't do anything and then saying you can stop doing testosteron[e]? I get non[e] of this? What would you stepping of TRT do? Are you horny and she doesn't want to have sex, and this is a major impact?

Well I mostly meant there's nothing I can do about her hormonal issues, and while I could quit TRT, I would go back to very low testosterone levels and just be an inert blob like I was before. My wife might like that, I was very compliant then, although she does want to have sex and my low T levels jacked up our sex life. When I got my sex drive back, everything was so broken between us and my theory is that I began to resist her manipulation and abuse more (due to my higher levels) and that unleashed her rage which led to me not wanting to have sex with her and then me ultimately seeking other, shall we say "counterproductive" outlets for my sexual needs. (As did she, btw.) When all of this came to light, well, you can imagine the horror when at least one participant has BPD tendencies.

The "good" news is that if we divorce and go NC, I won't have to hear about it every day for the rest of my life, potentially.

Fun tidbit: she actually blames *me* for her infidelities. True story.

[Enabler]

I believe there is something in the hormonal trigger theory for sure... .BUT, just that hormonal changes change emotions and can change emotions a lot, and since this is a disorder that inhibits and individuals ability to control changes in emotions (especially negative ones) ANYTHING that changes emotions is going to be a BPD trait trigger. It's just that in this case we can't see or hear the input and it's their own bodies (or I suppose contraceptive as well) that is creating the emotional volatility. Anything that acts to add to the emotional cup and get peBPD to the point of overflowing dysregulation is contributory.

[barnowl]

Well in addition to hormonal triggers, my wife suffered a pretty bad traumatic brain injury seven years ago and the neurosurgeon specifically mentioned that she may have increased emotional volatility ("lability" was the exact word). In rehab, one of the docs wanted to diagnose her for potential bipolar disorder, which we did not pursue. I kind of regret that now because a diagnosis of something along those lines then would give me a line of reasoning to pursue having her evaluated for something now. (Or perhaps she would already be on treatment for a mood disorder.)

[Enabler]

Barnowl, is your wife aware of her behaviour? I only ask because my wife has been living with her behaviours (and the destruction around her) for some 25 years... .if not 30+yrs... .so it is her normal, so the ability to reason with it or for her to serious identify that her behaviour is not in the bands of normal isn't there... .pretty much she has no idea at all and doesn't even identify apart from when she goes seriously off the Richter scale in which case it's blamed on environmental impacts... .i.e. Me!

[barnowl]

Enabler, I'm not sure how aware she is of it. Sometimes I think she has some inkling, but most of the time she's so lost in her own world that she definitely isn't aware of it. The good (?) news is that her anger and rage is almost exclusively directed at me, so the kids and other loved ones are spared. That also means that many of them think I'm the crazy, threatening one when I reach out in desperation to them for help when she's at her least coherent. "Why does he think she's having a mental health crisis? She seems perfectly fine to me. It must be him."

[Enabler]

I totally sympathise with that and in turn that impacts the type of advice she receives from her family and friends. Re the kids, read up that, being emotionally unavailable or even invalidating is damaging to children, do you ever get the sense that there's 2 children having a fight when your children and wife are having a disagreement? Monitor that situation... .I'm not saying wade in but you may well want to coach your children that parents don't always act imprecably and they often let themselves down by saying and acting inappropriately. Maybe you do this by asking your kids if you thought "that" was fair.

When your wife is raging at you, try and depersonalise it, although it's about you, it's not about you. Funnily enough, this is what you will need to teach your children else they could be as damaged as your wife, taking onboard what your wife might say to them.

The isolation of the emotional beatings only occurring behind closed doors is tough, I totally feel your pain.

[barnowl]

You know, rereading what I wrote, it's true she doesn't direct her anger at the kids, but they get to see her directing a lot of anger at me, and that can't be good. Disagreements with our kids are rare, they are really well-behaved and generally compliant (especially for 12 and 14) so that dynamic isn't scary yet. The only time I can remember either of us having a disagreement with our son (14) is the other night when he was harshly critical of me for not caving to my wife's demands. That... .was hard for me to handle, but I can say I'm proud of how I did handle it, without hauling my wife's dirty laundry out (his critique of me largely being based on all my dirty laundry, which she of course has proudly paraded to him).

So yes, now that I type this out, she has done some childish things to hurt me by telling him things she shouldn't (things which also hurt him, btw). Your advice to ask the kids whether they thought this was "fair" is well-taken in that case.

[Enabler]

Her yelling at you is not cool, but it's not the be all and end all with regards to child development. I'm trying to get a handle on whether or not your wife has always had BPD traits or just after the op. This might go some way to explain why you have compliant children in as much as they would have no doubt grown up in a consistent caring environment with consistent firm boundaries. As I mentioned before, my wife has always had traits of BPD ever since her teenage years. An example of how this might play out is that one day she will be suggesting that D7 should do more exercise even though she is not at all fat or unhealthy and the next day she will allow her lots of sweets. Says one thing and does another but cannot see the relationship between the 2 things. Goes upstairs to get ready for 1.5hrs and says "be ready for when we need to go out", comes down 30 seconds before she's supposed to go out and wonders why no one is ready "for her".

[barnowl]

Oh the BPD symptoms have been around all along, but came out especially strong after the accident and TBI, and were triggered in strong form this time around by revelations of our infidelities. I suppose she is sometimes a little inconsistent with boundaries with the kids, but I'm more of the boundary setter for them and the ones I enforce are strict and consistent, and for the most part extremely well-obeyed. I certainly don't think the kids feel like they're getting a lot of mixed signals, but some of what you say resonates. There is a bit of "mom gets to play by different rules" that goes on at times, like you said with being ready to go on time and so on. Also she does have a tendency to be selective sometimes with rules I consider absolute; things along the lines of "oh you don't have to go to school today, it's your birthday" or asking for some special treatment or ignoring some school rule for what I think is no good reason (just "we're special". That's pretty rare though and it usually strikes me as pretty benign or possibly even more-healthily-less-uptight-than-me (and almost always overruled by me if I am given the opportunity to do so, part of all that controlling and manipulating I'm doing I guess). I reckon my kids will be better off if they're a bit more rule-breakers than I ever was; but certainly at least my son (the seatbelt enforcer) is not.

[Enabler]

What's with the infidelity? I can understand how that can freak anyone out, even from a perspective of being unfaithful is an emotional rollercoaster.

[barnowl]

What's with the infidelity?

Woo boy, that's a long story. Let's see how much I can condense it. (For perspective, we've been married 20 years). In the last few years, somehow we got off-track sexually for a variety of possible reasons (including low testosterone--now corrected--and occasional performance issues for me, and BPD-like rage for her). At some point (after going on testosterone replacement) I decided to secretly explore my bisexual urges and began hooking up with other men... .strictly for physical pleasure, no strings. At the same time, my wife began a long distance emotional affair with a married man which was eventually consummated, and had another sexual infidelity she discounts because "it was someone she'd already slept with before we met". Actually she discounts all of her infidelities (whatever the total may be) as "my fault" because her sexual needs weren't being met by me and "she warned me" (to rescue her). And of course now all of our problems are also "my fault" because I'm gay, she's absolutely convinced of it. Admittedly the subtleties of why straight or bi married men might have sex with other men are difficult to explain and comprehend, and my reasoning that getting my physical needs met while avoiding emotional entanglements was intended to be less potentially damaging to our marriage is also dismissed. ("I would've much preferred you cheated with other women!" Yeah, right.)

None of that is meant to excuse or deny the importance of what I did; but my therapist's line of thinking he's telegraphing to me is that all of these infidelities are a product of our relationship, and should be seen in the context of that. None of it is exclusively her or my fault. Sadly my wife's therapist (as far as I can tell) isn't working along the same line of thinking.

For the record in case you are wondering, I acknowledge myself as bisexual now, with a physical attraction to men as well as women, but I do truly believe that if my wife and I can fix our relationship (a tall order, for sure) I would remain happily faithful to her the rest of my life. Whether she can believe than and ever trust me again remains an open question. I'd definitely consider some form of open marriage as well, recognizing that having one person meet all of your sexual needs for the rest of your life exclusively is... .kind of unrealistic. (We sure as hell weren't meeting each other's.) But I think she's not quite willing to consider that yet, and in any case the entire topic is so strongly triggering still that calm discussion and consideration is currently impossible.

[Meili]

Understanding that there are reasons behind another's behavior can be somewhat comforting, but doesn't actually do a lot of good. What is truly important is how we manage ourselves when we encounter the behaviors.

There is a lot of rumination going on in this thread, but what are you doing to change your responses (and not being reactive) to the behaviors? That's really where the focus needs to be in those are the only things that you have control over.

[Enabler]

Meoli, I appreciate you want this to be a productive discussion and at points it has, however for myself I'm in a bit of a perfect chess move where actually observing is as much a positive move as being proactive. She will not talk to me other than on a purely practical basis and even then conversations are mostly full of venom or I'm suspicious when she's nice as it typically means she has an alterior motive reverting to viper soon afterwards. Playing ball now and learning how the game works could be invaluable later when she has power over my daughters minds.

[Meili]

Then, you need to know what works in the long-term and not just how to deal with the things immediately in front of you. Things like communication skills, defining and maintaining healthy boundaries, accepting what you can and cannot control, detaching with love, and all of the other do's and don'ts in a BPD relationship.

Observe her choices and actions that are not responsive to your choices and actions is far less important than observing your own. You have zero control over what she is going to do, so focusing on yourself is the better plan.

Let's say that we were 100% certain, doctor diagnosed that she is BPD and a hormonal imbalance is in play. She decides to do nothing about it. That still leaves you with the very same options: how you are going to act and what you are going to choose.

Does that make sense?