"rescuing" behavior

[Depression = 72% of members]

Kind of new here so apologies for not knowing all the lingo and shorthand. (Is there a crib sheet somewhere btw?)

Background is I'm in a 20-year marriage and starting to realize my wife is having BPD-like episodes (has throughout our relationship, but not always frequently). Very high functioning much of the time, but more frequent episodes lately.

Over Thanksgiving, she had a two-day episode of rather typical BPD behaviors that started with her finding out that I'd met with a divorce attorney, which I told her I was going to do, and only did in response to her meeting with one herself. I tried to behave in response using everything I've learned here and elsewhere, and that went OK, but the episode didn't end until we had a long discussion that ended with her abandonment and worthlessness issues coming right to the front.

I handled this by moving in to her, reassuring her I was not going to abandon her and reiterating that she is not worthless, that she's important to me, our kids, her brothers and sisters, etc. This more-or-less ended the episode, her anger subsided and the general BPD attack behaviors subsided.

When I conveyed this episode to my therapist this morning, he called me out for "rescuing" her... .I think he's saying that I'm rescuing/caretaking her, always trying to come in and save her from her issues and feeling worthless and so on. Which... .is true I suppose... .but isn't that what a good partner is supposed to do? Wouldn't everyone want a spouse who helps pick them up when they're down? He basically said to me "she is the only one who can fix her problems with this" - which, ok, I guess I understand, but am I doing the wrong thing by propping her up like I did? This line of thinking has me really confused at the moment. If she's clearly suffering with abandonment and worthlessness issues, and she is not fully aware of her disorder, am I supposed to say, "Gee, that's awful honey, you should take this up with your therapist sometime?" "Try solving that problem yourself, hey?" "If you need me I'll be at my divorce attorney's office?" (OK I'm being facetious but you get the idea.)

I suppose this is all about how I consistently choose to pursue short-term peace at the expense of long-term solutions, and in this case me "rescuing" her allows the episode to end but also does not give her the opportunity to solve the problem herself. I guess I get that. But leaving her to her own devices to solve her own problems when she's so dysfunctional seems to lead inevitably to more conflict, and I don't know how much longer our marriage can withstand more conflict.

Any thoughts you might have to help me understand what line of reasoning I'm supposed to get out of this are greatly appreciated!

[barnowl]

Kind of new here so apologies for not knowing all the lingo and shorthand. (Is there a crib sheet somewhere btw?)

Background is I'm in a 20-year marriage and starting to realize my wife is having BPD-like episodes (has throughout our relationship, but not always frequently). Very high functioning much of the time, but more frequent episodes lately.

Over Thanksgiving, she had a two-day episode of rather typical BPD behaviors that started with her finding out that I'd met with a divorce attorney, which I told her I was going to do, and only did in response to her meeting with one herself. I tried to behave in response using everything I've learned here and elsewhere, and that went OK, but the episode didn't end until we had a long discussion that ended with her abandonment and worthlessness issues coming right to the front.

I handled this by moving in to her, reassuring her I was not going to abandon her and reiterating that she is not worthless, that she's important to me, our kids, her brothers and sisters, etc. This more-or-less ended the episode, her anger subsided and the general BPD attack behaviors subsided.

When I conveyed this episode to my therapist this morning, he called me out for "rescuing" her... .I think he's saying that I'm rescuing/caretaking her, always trying to come in and save her from her issues and feeling worthless and so on. Which... .is true I suppose... .but isn't that what a good partner is supposed to do? Wouldn't everyone want a spouse who helps pick them up when they're down? He basically said to me "she is the only one who can fix her problems with this" - which, ok, I guess I understand, but am I doing the wrong thing by propping her up like I did? This line of thinking has me really confused at the moment. If she's clearly suffering with abandonment and worthlessness issues, and she is not fully aware of her disorder, am I supposed to say, "Gee, that's awful honey, you should take this up with your therapist sometime?" "Try solving that problem yourself, hey?" "If you need me I'll be at my divorce attorney's office?" (OK I'm being facetious but you get the idea.)

I suppose this is all about how I consistently choose to pursue short-term peace at the expense of long-term solutions, and in this case me "rescuing" her allows the episode to end but also does not give her the opportunity to solve the problem herself. I guess I get that. But leaving her to her own devices to solve her own problems when she's so dysfunctional seems to lead inevitably to more conflict, and I don't know how much longer our marriage can withstand more conflict.

Any thoughts you might have to help me understand what line of reasoning I'm supposed to get out of this are greatly appreciated!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[DaddyBear77]

Hi barnowl - thank you for posting - I am really sorry to hear what's going on with you. I can really relate - I am also in a long term marriage and have consulted with a divorce attorney on a couple of occasions. Each time, this consultation was seen as a very significant triggering threat and I've had the "calming" conversation you described.

This is a really great question about Caretaking, and one that I struggle with every day.

I have a great book suggestion for you - Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist

Also, here's a great summary from a former staff member in a post from several years ago:

When a person is depressed and they turn to you "to make them feel better", you are the emotional caretaker.

When a person is angry and they blame you "for making them angry", you are the emotional caretaker.

It's when others expect you to be responsible for how they are feeling.

It's when you assume that you have the ability to control how others are feeling.

I will be straight forward and honest with you - much of this still falls into my category of intellectual understanding, but does not yet fully reach my emotional understanding, and therefore I am seldom coming from a Wisemind perspective (check out the article on Wisemind for more on this)

How does this all sound to you? Does any of this info help you make more sense of what your therapist said?

P.S. Here's a list of acronyms - hope this helps!
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=26601.0

[pearlsw]

Hi barnowl and DaddyBear77,

Interesting discussion here! Thanks for the tip on that book. Reading that page describing it was very informative!

barnowl, is your wife threatening divorce? Does she seem serious? Is this a typical thing she does?

take care, pearlsw.

[yeeter]

Hi owl, hugs.   

I think the nature of your question suggests you are doing a very good job being considerate and compassionate.  Which I will bet is one of your core values as who you want to be as a person.  It is a balance between support and ownership.

I read once that in some ways the XPD sufferer has the emotional development of a 13 yo child.  That is, they never learned to handle/manage/deal with their emotions past that stage.  When I 'detach' and take a step back, and think of my spouse as a 13yo child, it fits.  Then I try to think of solutions appropriate for a 13yo.  It means supporting them, but not doing it for them.  Sooner or later it is a life skill that they need to develop, and know how to do on their own (that is, managing their own emotions).  I dont know if that helps as you consider the balance.

But in this case you did bail her out, short term (you get that so great).  Then long term how will you help?  If you can support her doing her work to learn how to do it herself in the future, great.  Otherwise it will be just a matter of time before she needs the short term fix from you again.  And if you, or someone else is always there to provide the fix, then no real motivation for her to do the really hard work to develop.

It is a great question. 

Divorce is triggering, there is no getting around that.  I went right up to the 11th hour so feel for where you are at.  One thought regarding the divorce process:  you cannot control the outcome 100%.  So develop some thoughts on how you want to behave during the process, with integrity and compassion, then let the rest play itself out.  (it might be worth perusing the undecided boards as well, since this type of advice likely belongs there)

[Tattered Heart]

The difference between caretaking and supporting is a fine line. To me, it sounds like your T is saying that he wants you to allow your W to learn self regulation of her emotions instead of you trying to fix her emotions. Does that sound right?

Example of fixing:
W: You don't care about me.
You: It's ok. I do love you. Please don't feel that way. I'm not leaving you.

Example of supporting:
W: You don't care about me.
You: I'm sorry that you are feeling rejected. Then ask a question: What would it look like to you to feel cared for? What would you like to happen in this situation? What would help you to feel cared for?

Can you see the difference?

I really like this workshop on Are You Supporting or Enabling?

[barnowl]

Thank you all for your replies. It's all very helpful. As usual, the process of composing the post did much of the work of clarifying things for me, but all the reinforcement here helps.

One of the reasons I am struggling here may relate to some couples counseling we did last year, where the counselor encouraged me to "move in" and be more supportive (enabling?) when my wife would get upset. My current (solo) counselor offers the exact opposite advice. The implication from our earlier counseling and from my wife is that if only I can fix myself, all of my wife's problems will go away. This was on abundant display during our most recent fight where she had a long list of things I'd done to make her miserable, demanding I fix them, with no hint that she had/has anything to do with her own misery. It is amazing the extent to which I'd bought into that narrative.

This one is going to take me a while to figure out, but I guess for now I will try to just disengage earlier and more often when the attack knives come out. These "What would help you... ." type of supposed "support" questions are a recipe for massive new attacks because the answers would all be "you fixing yourself would help me". I doubt I will be able to answer any of her attacks without somehow enabling them, so it's probably best to just walk away entirely from them.

Thanks again for all the advice and anecdotes, they truly do all help. The "stop caretaking" book is up after I finish the "stop walking on eggshells" one.

[Tattered Heart]

I could see how a MC would give you that advice. In a normal relationship, this may work. Many MC are not well versed in PD, which run a different set of rules in counseling.

Can you try to head off the anger prior to her attacking by using Validation and Don't Be Invalidating ?

[barnowl]

Hmmm. Well it sometimes seems like half of her attacks are things that are invalidating my feelings, so those feelings of hers are a little hard to validate? "I understand that you feel that way about how I feel" maybe? Am I supposed to validate her invalidation? I guess calling her out on it by saying "you don't get to decide how I feel" was the wrong approach then.

Clearly that's all too complicated for me, I guess I'll just have to take the walk-away approach instead.

[Tattered Heart]

"I can see how you could see it that way" works quite often for me or "I've never thought of it that way before".

[isilme]

"I didn't realize it could seem that way - I do now" is close to what I usually say these days. 

Also, validation is just ONE tool out of many, and just like a screwdriver won't do very well pounding in a nail, validation may not be the best to employ at times.  It's a very good place to start, and to return to, and works best BEFORE the dysregulation gets too bad. 

I am working with H on getting him, as best as possible, in calm periods to try to accept that HIS feelings about my feelings are not the same as MY feelings.  Last night I finally got him to be quiet after telling him in to please stop projecting his feelings about his health and physical abilities onto me - I am me, not him, and that he cannot and does not know MY feelings better than me.  This is VERY invalidating, but when he is trying to force a false "truth" I try to use SET, badly, but I'm trying, and repetition, to get him to stop.  I find that I have to repeat things and it takes several times for him to stop trying to blame me for his own negative self-perceptions.  "I know YOU feel badly about yourself - I hate that you feel that way, but that is NOT how I feel, please stop claiming you know MY feelings or can tell what they are better than me."

It's two steps forward, 1.5 steps back most days, but it's better than it used to be.  It all takes time.  Yes, walk away - find what is best for YOU, for how you both communicate, and what you feel you can get confident doing.  Baby steps, this won't fix itself overnight, but as long as you work on changing YOU and your reactions, she should be forced in a way to have to reevaluate her own actions because you are no longer giving her the expected responses. 

[barnowl]

Thank you, isilme, that makes a lot of sense. I have definitely started to use the line that goes something like "you don't get to decide how I feel, I am the final authority on that". A lot of the advice for dealing with all this is counter-intuitive to me and seems to make things worse in the short term, so it's been incredibly difficult. My therapist would advise me to take some approach and I'd come back the next week and report that it was awful and led to terrible conflict and then he'd try to point out how there was some sort of "progress" ("you got what you wanted" "yeah but she was a horrible b*tch all week to me and I don't want that" -- which is not all that much comfort when it's open warfare at home. But I do see where he's going with this now. I think in my case it's more like 3 steps backward, 1 forward, but the backtracking is hopefully required to get on a different path that moves forward at some point. Either that or everyone else in the whole world (it seems) is correct and I should just divorce her and be done with it. Nevertheless, he persisted.

[OptimismRules]

Sorry to hear about your situation as it is a truly challenging one as you well know.  I'm new to this site and new to the whole topic really, but have been doing much research.  

Relative to your shrink, how experienced is he with BPD?  If he has lots of it, that's potentially highly useful.  If he doesn't have much Bdp experience it may be questionable how helpful he can be.

From my research, you did some good, it sounds.  The BPD has intense issues of self esteem and feels lnvalidated. In discussions, you can't make them feel invalidated as that doesn't help.  A key tactic is to make them understand their feelings are real (regardless of how offkey) and they need to feel validated. Seems to me like you did that. And it calmed her down. First step is to calm them down as no one thinks straight with intense emotion. Next step  is to help them acknowledge their feelings  feelings, " I know you are scared and most people would react in a similar fashion (normalization... ."who wouldn't be scared?". Then if it is a good time to open it up to a viable discussuon, you could Segway into what options might exist worth pursuing.  I'm too new at this to say I'm 100% on track here but you can find advice on how to handle this. There are books that suggest DBT (dialectic based therapy I think) that will give you much more insight than I can. Try "loving Someone with borderline personality disorder" that is great.  There's also a book titled "Splitting: divorcing someone with BPD" which might be helpful about logistics and process not handling conversations.  

Keep in mind I'm very new at this.

[barnowl]

OptimismRules, first off I like your name. :-) Always useful to hear voices of experience. I didn't even catch on to the BPD aspect to all this until a few weeks ago myself so I'm very new as well.

My therapist didn't seem to want to discuss this as a BPD case; about his only comment was "I think BPD is wildly over-diagnosed in the US" (he is a New Zealander). That may wave a red flag for some of you, but based on where he has been trying to point me I don't necessarily think that means he is inexperienced in this area. One of the things I struggle with myself is *everyone* is a surely a little BPD at times; it's got to be a spectrum and at what point do you run the "mentally ill" flag up the pole and salute it? The strategies he's suggesting to deal with it seem to align well with what I see here and elsewhere for dealing with BPD. What I like about this is he is thereby encouraging me *not* to see my wife as mentally ill or defective, while still pointing out (this took many weeks for me to realize, btw) that she was and is being very abusive to me with these behaviors. That's helpful in the sense that I don't think it does anyone any good for me to start blaming her for all the problems ("she's a hot mess who has BPD!" whatever this is arose in the context of our relationship and it takes two to tango. That doesn't mean that I can't be a little peeved when (as she did in our last argument) she blames everything that's ever gone suboptimally for her during our marriage exclusively on me. It seems boundlessly cynical and pointless to "validate" that sort of nonsense with "I understand why you might feel that way" but I guess I need to screw my BS prevention valve shut and just do it. Or walk away (probably more likely).

[DaddyBear77]

barnowl, kudos to you! What you just described in your last post is, in my opinion, a very healthy and balanced look at what’s going on.

BPD is, indeed, a spectrum disorder. Many of the traits associated with BPD are traits everyone exhibits from time to time and in varying degrees of intensity. Most of our “pwBPD” (people / partners with BPD traits) would never be clinically diagnosed. Furthermore, therapies like DBT can be useful for everyone - they just happen to also be the most effective with people who exhibit stronger and more sustained traits associated with BPD.

One of the best things we can do is to learn about ourselves and our role, and also take care of ourselves. You can’t ever “make” someone calm down or “force” someone to face their issues and get help. But we can help ourselves. And that’s why we’re here. And it seems like that’s why you’re here too so congrats again.