How did I end up on this road?

[OptimismRules]

I met a woman roughly 4 years ago and fairly quickly, it became a significant relationship. We got along great and had mostly great times. Although I did notice she would drink a bit too much often and turn into an angry person.  Those were the good old days when the things she would be criticizing and angry at would be things around us, not me.  Not yet, anyway.  That would change as we got closer.  

Life went from relatively good to relatively weird.  We almost moved in together but there were always excuses and by now I realize thank god we didn't.  She is clearly relationship phobic, which is not a good sign obviously. So, based on what I was seeing and experiencing, several weeks ago I started researching topics on the web.  I was thinking maybe she had multiple personalities, but ever so subtle. Of course, I stumbled on BPD (thought I was pretty aware of many things but not sure how I had never heard of this).  What I read resonated totally.  So, I bought and read 4 books on BPD over the past 2-3 weeks. I also read "my trip to Oz and back" also on the web.  I'm not qualified to diagnose her (clearly), but If my girlfriend isn't a borderline personality, then I'll eat my car.  

I've known something was wrong and wanted to show that love can fix most things, including this one.  BUT, what about me, what about my wants, needs and goals?... .and is this what I'm willing to sign up for?  True, I believe she is a moderate BPD, but there's enough there that I know what I am up against.  In the last few months, she has told me she doesn't know about a close  long term relationship as we are both in our early sixties and we may become incapacitated and she does'nt want to have to take care of anyone like she did her mother (strange from a nurse, yes? No?). That she hoped I got cancer (her father died of it) "so I would understand what it was like to have it" (apparently she thought I missed the impact that came from my living for a decade with a woman who died of breast cancer and who once had me walk her out of an ER, with the likelihood she would be dead in 3 or 4 hours, rather have her Tampanade treated ... .and yes, I was there when she died... .an experience my BPD thought was modest compared to the challenges she had raising her son).  

Yes, I am tough, smart, successful, have a strong self image and a great sense of humor. I also am loyal as a hunting dog and slightly better looking ... .and I believe you don't leave your dead on the battlefield, even if you receive a few wounds in the process. I'm not yet ready to give up on this relationship but am realistic enough to realize there may be no making this work unless I'm willing to risk losing myself. One of my heroes was Captain Patrick Brown FDNY ladder 3 who radioed Manhattan dispatch, "we're on the 35th floor and still heading up"... .and he and his men were still going up when the tower came down.  I respect what he did totally but we know now that there was no way for him to save anyone else and I wish Paddy had gotten out rather than keep heading up.  As for me, I suspect I need to leave but aren't totally quite sure I'm ready to do that.  But them many of you have a lot more experience and maybe some some good and useful thoughts. Which is why I am here.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[AskingWhy]

Dear Optimism, how kind of you to research for the benefit of your relationship.

Living with a pwBPD, as you know, is readily accepting that there will be ample behavior of ups and downs. 

You have looked at the diagnostic criteria as many of us have after having your suspicions that something with your partner was not quite "right." This is why we use the designation uBPD, or "undiagnosed BPD."  pwBPD do not often seek help as they feat help or truly think the problems are the faults of others.  Yes, loving a pwBPD can hurt... .a lot.

Please begin reading the resources her starting with this article:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/Dr-Jekyll-and-Mr-Hyde

Please read the other resources as you browse the site.  You are not alone in this.

[pearlsw]

Hi OptimismRules,

Nice name ya have there!

 

I am impressed how you dove right in and started to educate yourself on these issues. It can be scary at first, seem hopeless, but you may find that you are able to at least not make things more difficult than they have to be. A bit of knowledge can go a long way, as well as a willingness to look at yourself and make some adjustments with how you communicate. I know that focusing my energy onto myself and holding myself to high communication standards makes life much better - for myself and my partner.

Don't let some of the stuff you read out there take all of your hope away if you want to explore this further and give it try.

I hear that this cancer comparison she was making was off-putting and unnecessary. I find it is never helpful to compare the situations we are faced with in life in such a way. Depersonalization can help a lot when our partners say extreme things to us.

What are some of the specific issues you two are dealing with? Are you wanting to take the relationship to a next step and she is hesitating? Doing a push/pull?

What thoughts have your readings brought up for you so far?

wishing you the best, pearlsw.

[Tattered Heart]

Hi OptimismRules,

I'm sorry that you are having difficulty in your relationship. And I'm very sorry to hear about your wife that passed away. It's tough when our pwBPD wants to compare trauma stories as if it's a competition. I can imagine how hurtful it is for her to tell you she hopes you get cancer.

What area do you feel like you need the most help in your relationship or what do you struggle with the most?

[OptimismRules]

Dear Optimism, how kind of you to research for the benefit of your relationship.

Living with a pwBPD, as you know, is readily accepting that there will be ample behavior of ups and downs. 

You have looked at the diagnostic criteria as many of us have after having your suspicions that something with your partner was not quite "right." This is why we use the designation uBPD, or "undiagnosed BPD."  pwBPD do not often seek help as they feat help or truly think the problems are the faults of others.  Yes, loving a pwBPD can hurt... .a lot.

Please begin reading the resources her starting with this article:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/Dr-Jekyll-and-Mr-Hyde

Please read the other resources as you browse the site.  You are not alone in this.

[Tattered Heart]

Oops. I think your comment to AskingWhy's response may have accidentally been cut off.

[OptimismRules]

 A bit new to using this site, so forgive any errors... .think I'm replying to my ownposting here but I believe that will still show up so the folks who have replied to me can see my response.  thank you for the three replies that are very encouraging and I appreciate the support. I guess that's why were all here and that's a great thing.  

Firefighting is a good analogy to this because when you're in a burning building, there only a few of you in there and you are going to have to support and help each other to sicceed and survive.  That's why it's such a brotherhood.

 To continue a bit with the Paddy Brown analogy, Paddy continued up with his men because they were people that needed help above and he was not going to stop in this mission. My task is a lot easier though clearly challenging  and I want to give it my best effort. (Without ending up being Euligized)

From my research I learned a ton about how a BPD thinks and views  their world, about how to interact and interface with them without making things worse versus in a way that diffuses conflict and makes things better.  It explained so very much about what I've experienced and heard, and helped  provide a lot of perspective on the situation I'm potentially  in. I also learned a great deal about what I need to do to take care of myself and the importance of making sure that I'm OK to be able to be OK for her so I can support her.  Learned a fair amount about DBT therapy and approaches to validating a BPD (or anyone else too) and defusing potential minefields.

Appreciate the comments about not taking her comments too seriously, but don't worry about that as I have a pretty healthy attitude and used to laugh at some of her off the wall comments  before I learned that I need to not be insulting and make her feel invalidated.   I didn't mean to be insulting when I laughed, I just couldn't take comments that were so off-the-wall at all seriously.   Hopefully now I have new tools to respond in a more effective and more helpful manner.   I'm basically healthy enough not to take her criticism, belittling and comments too seriously Or too much to heart.  

I'm also left wondering whether in the many instances of her projecting characteristics and behaviors  of me (that are not really me all,)  and That are most likely characteriistics of her she is uncomfortable with, may give me more insight into her and maybe I should explore talking to her about those thoughts to gain more insights about her self view.  Is it possible when she's projecting and talking about qualities of me that are not very flattering that it's an opportunity to get her to talk more and more about how she sees me that way and in a less threatening way thereby expose more  of her thinking and  obtain more insight how she sees herself.

 One of the biggest issues that I'm dealing currently with seems to be that as we've gotten much closer she's becoming a bit more aloof, our Sex Life is a fraction of what it was, and recently within the last 2 to 3 weeks I've noticed her on at least three occasions talking to other men sitting at a bar with us in a much more flirtatious and inviting manner. She never did that before, but now I'm seeing her seem to show some interest in other men.  I'm not threatened by that behavior however it's not a great sign and I'm not thrilled by it.   I'm interpreting that as evidence by her that  it is somewhat of an effort to push me away while also then trying to reel me back in.   Last night, for example, this jerk (I don't see everyone at the bar who talks to her as a jerk)  clearly had too much to drink who is looking into her eyes to intently and ignoring everyone else at the Bar but her.  She Carried on a significant conversation with him until the point that she ultimately after 15 minutes or so  turned back to me and told me what a jerk tHe guy was and said she and I needed to talk and ignore him. (Kinda what I was thinking 5 minutes  into that conversation, although clearly if the guy have been talking to both me and her, I would've been content to carry  on the conconversation at some length).  Seems like Lee initial attraction to some resulted into her splitting him into a loser.  (Correct me if I am off base hear anyone).  

This morning she thanked me  as she left for work. I Aster what you were thinking before she replied for being a good guy and for being so nice and understanding when she was being a brat.

Another issue I'm trying to understand is that when she has one of her friends to go out and do something with, she doesn't need me at all and it's as if I don't exist... .at least until she's finished with her friends.  Then she'll call me and want me to come over.  But if none of her friends are available, then I'm her whole life.
 I'm actually very comfortable with not spending time with Her and  doing things on my own,  it does make me wonder a little bit whether the relationship is one of convenience for her or something that is a bit more genuine and that. But I also understand if I'm dealing with a uBPd,  what why do I expect?  And I do think some taking advantage of me, like "hey I'm out with my friends. can you go all the way over to my house to let my dogs out because I'm getting home late?"  If I lived close (25 miles away) and felt it was really appreciated,  of course I would not mind it.  

Like.  soon she has two relatives coming to  stay From another country. they will be here for a week to 10 days and it's seems like her plan is to spend that week to 10 days almost exclusively with them.  It's not "hey I'm gonna take them to
places to show them around and you can come too some of the time". It's more like she'll be too busy to see my very much , if at all,  while they are here.  Strange, no?    :)on't get me wrong,  if they were going away to places that I was not able to go with them do to room logistics or I couldn't take take the time,  I get that and be fine with it  but it will be most likely local sight seeing, which I would do for a day or two.   It's like I won't even be invited.
  
I do not want to reinforce this new behavior on her part with positive  or neutral  reaction but by the same token I don't want to over react to it and make an issue that she can think her teeth (fangs?) into and start raging.  It's a behavior that I need to somehow get across to her is unacceptable.   I like steps leading some slings and arrows but this is not one of them.  I understand the concept of what is having  borders is this something that I can use as a boundary but cannot expect other people to see and treat it is a boundary unless I enforce them.

Intoxicated one nite, she  started to tell me a story that led me to believe with someone she was once going to use sex as a weapon. ( IE. have sex with a guy to teach his arrogant wife).  Makes me wonder if she's now starting to use sex as a weapon of sorts with me.   Frequency is 20%  of what it was ( once great to sporadic but still good)  and intimacy is largely nonexistent, (isn't that what you get from a prostitute a lover. Ouch!)

So those are some of what I'm dealing with.

I'm willing to summarize and share some of the stuff I've learned if that is helpful and I'm usually pretty good at coming up with insights.

I've learned that there are different theories of where a BPD comes from... .is it genetic,  is it environmental,  or a combination of both etc.  from what I know and have observed of my girlfriend I believe there is a very weird family dynamic.  I have strong  suspicions that my girlfriend has a history of sexual abuse  from a variety of clues I've observed. I understand if that is the case and increases the challenges significantly.  

Yes I see the challenge but challenges inspire me, and because I'm smart, tough and loyal and see a lot of wonderful things in my girlfriend,  I'd really like to make this work if that is truly possible.  Whether I ultimately stay or leave is less material than: I'd like it to give it my best shot and I'd like to do some real good here in my relationship.

Based on just the three responses to my posting I'm so optimistic about this site and the support I already feel.   Thanks a million!