need a better understanding

[bluesyguy]

I am curious as to how a BPD would respond if they are accused of cheating. The non is always accused. I am the non and I am ALWAYS accused. Never would I ever cheat and risk destroying this relationship. Anyways my BPDGF is very shady at times and I accused her of cheating. She went crazy on me and refuses to speak to me. Also during her rage she threatened to go cheat on me since that is what I am assuming.

Is the rage a response to being caught. Or a response to me being insecure and doubting our relationship. I guess I accepted if someone wants to cheat they will. It hurts because I definitely bent over backwards for this girl. Just curious to what you guys think as to how someone with BPD would respond to being accused of cheating. Oh and 100% she cheated. It was so obvious I almost would have appreciated the honesty and her just telling me.  

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[schwing]

I would argue that people with BPD (pwBPD) experience disordered feelings of abandonment (or betrayal/denigration) and these disordered feelings can be overwhelming to them to the degree that they will *imagine* that the non-BPD has or intends to abandon them (i.e. cheat on them).

This is why even when there is no evidence that they are being cheated on, they will still believe this.  Because when their emotions are sufficiently strong, then their feelings will trump facts.

Also, for pwBPD, the best way to avoid this imagined abandonment is to be the one who abandons first.  And this is probably why some pwBPD are driven to cheat.  By being with someone else, they have "abandoned" us and thereby avoid being abandoned.  In  their mind, they had no other choice because they are driven by frantic efforts to avoid this (imagined) abandonment.

So in my opinion, this BPD behavior is not about being caught, or about them being honest or dishonest.  This behavior is mostly about them dealing with feelings/emotions that nonBPD cannot empathize with because we do not have this disorder.  We do not understand this motivation because we are not driven by the same disordered emotions.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes,

Schwing

[Tattered Heart]

Welcome bluesyguy,

Sorry that you are worried about cheating in your relationship. I would like to second what schwing says about their fear of abandonment and fear of rejection. pwBPD do not respond to accusations very well. (Then again, does anyone?)

Since you knew that she cheated, when you asked her about cheating were you just want her to confess it, were you looking for a way to move forward to heal from it, or were you wanting to end the relationship?

[bluesyguy]

Very interesting and thank you all for the replies. It is weird because I have never felt insecure in relationships before. But my BPDGF will constantly talk about other guys and remind that she has emotionally cheated on everyone she has dated. So naturally I have developed this odd sense of "fear of abandonment". As much as I do love her and want everything to work out. Seems like I need to take the time to heal and focus on myself. But this girl has a way of making me feel so loved and special. Very interesting and I am sad I even had to experience it.

After accusing her things really went bad. Few days later she told me she doesn't want to end things but thinks it is necessary for both of us to be happy down the line. Ever since dating her it has always been this confusing "I love you but I am scared to love you so now I want to hate you" vibe.

Frustrating. I did everything I could to help. And yes I wanted honesty and an apology but I know with BPD they usually don't apologize much. And my BPD gf never really apologized. Even after going NC for 3 days after a little fight it was always just like nothing ever happened.

[bluesyguy]

I should also mention out of nowhere last week she called and said "lets break up". Literally after a perfect weekend with her. But i had a busy day and didn't respond to her good morning text for a few hours. 4 hours after the break up call I got another call saying how much she regretted wishing to break up with me and that of course she never wants to leave me.

This behavior can turn a non-BPD like myself crazy. It is really hard. Thanks for the support.

[hurtingbad]

Hello All,
I am accused cheating all the time as well.  In fact, almost all of the arguing/yelling done by my BPDh will end up turning into him "knowing" I'm cheating or want to leave (we've been married 27 years and I have never even thought of cheating... .not wired that way).  He is extremely jealous.  I try to validate his feelings by telling him I can understand why HE would feel that way (even though I'm then told that I do not understand and never will), but the problem I have is understanding how not to JADE in this situation.  How do you not Justify, Defend yourself or Explain a situation that he has taken WAY out of context? 

An example from a couple nights ago... .I received a text from a co-worker.  This person is sort of an apprentice.  He works at our location for 8 weeks, then goes to school for 8 weeks, then he's back.  He is currently at school and will be returning to work soon.  His text asked me if we were hiring and I responded yes... .possibly two people.  My H immediately wanted to know why he was texting me and not our boss.  I had no idea, and told him that, but I knew what would be coming next.  I then received another text from the co-working asking if he was being replaced, because he believed the position we were hiring for was his position.  I wasn't going to say anything about the 2nd text, but I could hear my H mumbling under his breath, and then asking why this guy was texting me, so I explained that I thought he may have texted me because he was scared to ask our boss (he's 18 or 19... .not even born until my H and I had been married 7 or 8 years!).  That just got the yelling started.  Why did I bring it back up?  He had been trying to let it go and I had to bring it back up!  Then the accusations start. 

Background... .unfortunately, since I met my H, I have had two long term jobs where I work with mostly men.  Currently there is only one other woman (who is in a completely separate department) in a workplace of about 25 people.  I have been accused of cheating with almost all of them (and at the other job as well).  Again, I am not wired to cheat, would never even think about it, yet I am accused of it all the time.  (to be honest, having been in this relationship for so long, if I were to ever find myself single again, I honestly believe I would just stay that way, since I don't trust my judgement!) I try not responding when he's ranting, but when he directly asks me a question I have to answer, and I don't know how to do that without JADEing. 

Any suggestions?

[schwing]

Hi hurtingbad,

I don't think I can give you any suggestion that will help your BPDh mitigate the disordered feelings he is experiencing.  The best I can do for you is tell you that there is nothing that you can do that would keep him from feeling this way; his feelings of jealousy are an expression of his fear of (imagined) abandonment.

As I understand it, he's going to feel this way no matter what you do.  It's just that at the times he's more overwhelmed by these feelings, he's going to look for any tiny suggestion that your behavior confirms his delusions.  And so receiving text messages from complete strangers may be the lightning rod on some occasions.  And on other occasions it will be another catalyst.

I'm just hoping you can bolster your sanity by accepting that your BPD loved one is going to feel this way no matter what you do or do not do.  Because if you start to believe that you are somehow causing these disordered feelings in him (which your BPD loved one will be inclined to make you believe) you will drive yourself mad trying to prevent something you have no control over.

So when he is accusing you of x, y or z delusion, it is good to avoid J.A.D.E, but also try using S.E.T. (Support, Empathize and Truth):

Support: I want to help you feel more secure about my commitment to you in our relationship.
Empathize: I know that when I get communications from people you do not know, you feel as though this might be evidence that I am cheating.
Truth: but the truth is, as much as you might feel this to be the case, I am not cheating nor do I have any intention of cheating.

Empathizing is difficult, because we don't have these kinds of disordered feelings.  Maybe you might imagine how if you were feeling neglected or insecure that you might then consider that these kinds of contacts could be signs of cheating.  But the truth is, pwBPD will have these kinds of feelings which have nothing to do with what you do or do not do; they will just have them.  And I do not recommend that follow that thread of conversation: do not tell them that their feelings are disordered.  It will only lead to more pain and suffering.  Accept that their feelings are disordered because this acknowledgement will help you cope.

PwBPD do not that the emotional resources to consider that their emotions are disordered, that's why all their coping mechanisms are geared towards projecting their emotions (i.e. we're cheating, we're the ones making them feel the way they do, etc... .)

This is the elephant in the room.  But you will just need to sit there and be comfortable with the elephant, for your own sake.

I hope some of this helps.

Best wishes,

Schwing

[Meili]

I must agree with schwing about not being able to change how our loved ones feel. People are going to feel how they are going to feel. Nothing that any of us can do about that.

I also agree about the distorted feelings. All that any of us can really do is validate the actual feelings behind the words. Validation can be a tricky thing sometimes though. We tend to focus on the words used rather than the emotions behind them. Accusations of cheating can easily come from a place of insecurity, fear of not being good enough, and fear of loss.

A mistake that I learned the hard way about validating is saying that we understand how the other person could feel that way. On far more occasions than I choose to remember, I told my x that I understood how she could feel that way. What she heard was that I really didn't understand and that I thought that she was wrong for feeling as she did. In short, my attempts at validating were, in fact, invalidating to her.

Dealing with the distorted feelings can confusing to say the least. But, it does get easier when we accept that the other person's feelings are very real to them even if they don't make sense to us. When we truly don't empathize with the way another person is feeling, sometimes it is more beneficial to ask validating questions instead of trying to validate. Hypervigilence to the emotions of others can be a maladaptive survival skill for pwBPD. When we try to "fake our way through it," they can often tell. We do more harm then good and end up in a defensive position with things quickly escalating.

Can you see things playing out this way for you?

[believer55]

Hi bluesy

I think you will find this is a common experience as the pwBPD's worst fear is being abandoned and rejected. I have been through years of accusations and even now he will say something and then say he is joking, but I know underneath he still does not trust I am faithful to him (together 7 years - married 1). You could not get anyone more faithful then me!  He doesn't understand when I say it is an insult.

One thing hwBPD can not stand is seeing infidelity in a movie or on TV. He can not stand the mention of it at all. Like it's contagious or something. At one stage I, like you, turned it around on him and it was if I had accused him of murdering a child! Even though he has had numerous private chats with women, joined a dating agency online and was badly addicted to porn - how could I even dare to suggest he could be in anyway unfaithful. It is part of the narcissism that they think they are better than everyone else - whatever they do is beyond reproach and is OK. They are only judgemental on others. It makes it very hard of us nons as we are usually guilty with no cause and they are innocent regardless of what they do. I find this aspect very hard to live with.

I try not to bite anymore at accusations. I know who I am. I now realise the accusations can be just another manipulation to get professions of love and fidelity which in turn ease abandonment fears. I am trying not to buy into this as he needs to learn to self-soothe these fears (bahahahahaha - insert manic laugh here).

I don't think the accusations will ever stop completely, but they have eased over 7 years.

B.

[hurtingbad]

This has been an interesting and informative thread for me.  For awhile, I was thinking that he was "projecting" when he would accuse me; that it was really he who was cheating and that's why he was accusing me.  I am as sure as one can be about the actions of another, that my H would never cheat, and just wish he would feel the same.  We had both been cheated on in the past, neither appreciated it (obviously) and both agreed before we even got married that if it got to the point where either of us were not happy, or would want to cheat, then we would just split up.  That was about 28 years ago!

Thank you, Schwing, for your example of how to use SET in this situation.  I had no idea how to empathize with an idea that is so outrageous to me, but since I do know that he feels this way, about whatever the argument is about, I would tell him that.  As Meili said... .when I would tell him that I could understand how/why he was feeling that way, it would just backfire on me.  Your example helps and I will try something like that the next time.  I just hope I can remember how to word it when in the middle of an argument. 

[Meili]

A lot of us around here have found that we can practice communication skills like listening with empathy, validation/not being invalidating, and techniques like SET in our interactions with people in our every day lives. Quite a few of us also use the other members of these boards to practice on. With enough practice, it becomes second nature so that when we find ourselves in stressful, emotionally charged situations, it is natural to us.