Should I Ask Her About BPD?

[FromandTo]

Hello,
First off, I am a maturing male, and I don't know for sure that BPD is the focus of my relationship issues. I saw a psychotherapist for almost a year concerning my romantic relationship pattern, and was guided in the direction that my mother has definite traits of BPD, as well as my attraction to partners with the same or very similar traits that go along with BPD. The therapist showed how I have a choice in recognizing these traits and whether I avoid them or not. Mostly, I was told to exit relationships that show red flags of these traits.

For years, this is what I did, and really did not see improvements. I still found that most of the women I was dating had these traits, and the ones that didn't had no interest in maintaining a relationship with me after initially getting to know each other. So, I found myself mostly alone... .which isn't all bad; but I'm not ready to just decide to be alone for the rest of my days.

A while back I met and began dating a younger girl, who spoke of wanting marriage and children. She was very honest about some of her suffering situations. Drug addiction, anorexia, sexual assaults, tattooed wrists etc. I have had my own issues with alcoholism, so it wasn't unusual to date someone with this type of history. I did have to make a decision concerning "red flags" though. I did like her. I didn't believe she was trying to manipulate me maliciously in any way. I believed, and still do believe that she is a good hearted yet troubled young girl who wants to be loved the same as anyone else, and is willing to work towards having that life.

Things progressed for her extremely and rapidly. She was all the way in and all the way out inside 3 months. She broke up with me and I left her alone. She slowly came back in another 3 months and wanted another chance... .begged and cried and promised. Same thing again... .all the way in and all the way inside 3 months and again I left her alone. Maybe 5 months later she eased her way back in and asked if we could be friends. I explained my feelings and accepted. My feelings being that if I'm dating someone else, I shouldn't be too friendly with her and if I'm not with someone else I will likely have some kind of physical interest in her if we are spending time together... .she understood and agreed.

Of course it crosses my mind that there is more to her interest than what she is able to speak about. After seeing her come and go and come and go and come again, there is no question that she has true feelings for me. There is also no question that she has extreme difficulty dealing with her emotions. I do not believe that there have been other guys in between. She does like to talk to everyone... .that is only on the surface though.

She is an extreme home body. Lives with her parents. Work is very frustrating and regularly seems to detach completely. I see it that just adding me to her daily living is overwhelming enough that she withdraws to the point she knows it's not fair to me... .whether I'm asking questions or not. Initially I did ask questions. There are a few instances that my questions escalated to her becoming angry and defensive. Never rage or violent; but once she definitely said inappropriate things when all I was doing was trying to give her the relationship she cried and begged me for which she seemed to then be avoiding.

She is in treatment, but I don't know the details. She gets medication and speaks regularly prior to getting the script. I asked if she is bipolar and was simply told no. So here's where I am... .I am pretty much over the idea of getting married and having kids myself. Looking at the world today, and at my age, I don't want to deal with what my kid may have to go through; aside from the issues I know I grew up with from my parents, and what I undoubtedly would pass on. The same goes for my girl I am posting about. She is accepting that she is past the age where having kids makes sense to her, so the relationship/marriage idea goes with it. She does not want to be alone, but does not need a boyfriend.

So I see our friendship as at a stage where we know each other, we know we can be together, we know we can be apart. We are interested in each other, but don't need to put a status to it. She wants me there but doesn't want me too close. Sometimes she wants me closer and then seems to withdraw again. My question here today is... .how do improve on what seems to be a good foundation of friendship and trust and mutual interest without adding pressure?

I have thought of bringing up BPD or asking more about her therapy, for the purpose of being more understanding and helpful, but I have heard that sometimes even when someone is diagnosed with BPD they are not informed of it. Like they don't know the full extent of their illness, they just are given what they need to know a little at a time. Do I try to start communications regarding her therapy at all or do I just take one day at a time and focus on being there solid as I always have and take care of myself?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Radcliff]

Hello FromandTo, welcome to the boards!  It sounds like you and your partner both have complex backgrounds, but it also sounds like you are being very thoughtful about things.  And your closing statement about taking care of yourself is right on the money -- you need to start with that.  bpdfamily is a great place to learn how we can more effectively interact with our partners.

To learn more about whether you may be seeing BPD traits in your partner, take a look at this page, What is Borderline Personality Disorder? as well as this page on the formal diagnostic criteria for BPD.

There are other good links to the right to start learning, and you may also want to read the book, "Stop Walking on Eggshells," which has a chapter that can help you understand if your partner might have BPD, as well as many insights and tools to help you cope in the relationship.

Again, welcome.  Become a regular community member hear and learn along with us.

WW

[pearlsw]

Hi FromandTo,

I'm here and I'm listening. I know how hard it can be out there finding the right romantic partner and making something last. I always felt like I had made decent choices based on reasonable criteria only to find there was something I overlooked or minimized in my partners... .That I didn't quite anticipate the gravity of how certain issues could lead to other troubles with a partner - or serious troubles for my life. It sometimes seems as if there is always one red flag or another to consider, and that there'd be no one to date if we overlooked all of them. Hard to say really. How to find a balance between being careful and not living in a bubble and avoiding the world completely? There has got to be a way!

I am not sure I have understood correctly. Are you both presently in therapy? Are you wanting to have a direct conversation with her about BPD? What are expecting to come of that? Are there perhaps other ways to deal with the issues that are concerning you and another possible approach?

wishing you the best, pearlsw.

[FromandTo]

Thank you pearl. Presently, she is in therapy, but I don't know many details about her therapy. I know that she goes monthly, and that visit includes getting a new prescription for her meds. She takes more than one kind of medication, and has for longer than the  years I have known her intimately. I am not currently in therapy. I saw a therapist weekly then bi-weekly for almost a year, and then once a year for a visit for 2 additional visits as a check up.

I am interested in having a direct conversation about BPD... .if it would be helpful to our relationship. In other words... .if there is information she has about her disorder(if she knows she has it) that can help me understand and relate better, than I am willing to be in therapy as well whether that be with her or separately. I simply am not educated enough to determine if speaking up to her about it would be helpful or hurtful. She always tells me when her appointment is, so when it comes that time, I listen openly for any possible cues she may give to talk more about it. Sometimes it seems she is leaving a cracked door open, but I haven't gotten further than peaking in and don't want to be intrusive. An example of that is as I mentioned that I asked if she is bipolar and she simply answered no. That was during our first few months together so I don't remember exactly, but I believe I then asked if she was given any other diagnosis. If I did ask her that, it was also unanswered or a simple no. Again, I  don't remember if I asked about another diagnosis.

Having a direct conversation is not required for me... .but would be appreciated if possible. I have been feeling that we are both kinda on the same page. Like we both are wanting to be together, but not so close that it causes ourselves or the other any difficulty. Like we are both standing on the sidelines wanting to be in the game but not knowing how to make that first step or sure that it will be worth it. All the while not wanting to go sit on the bench either... .like standing on the sideline is an acceptable medium... .

[pearlsw]

Hi FromandTo,

Sorry I could not reply sooner, I've been traveling lately. How you are doing? The standard line is to not talk with our partner's about BPD and there is good reason for this. However, such conversations do happen and you may have different results. It is a risk and I advise you to tread carefully into such territory. Ask yourself carefully what good will come of it for your partner? If it is more about your needs perhaps you'll want to reconsider knowing it might not be well received. (here is info. on Telling Someone You Think They Have BPD: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=76633.0)

In my case my partner recognized he is "emotionally sensitive" and "can't control himself sometimes". He was not entirely opposed to the notion that he had mental health issues, though he does go back and forth on this a bit. I've found it important not to discuss it in a way that triggers any shame or embarrassment on his part. When it did come up I tried to make it as positive as I could and discussed it as "being normal to have emotions, his are just a bit stronger than average" things like that that took the sting out of it - but I'll be honest, it was something that was more about me than about him. I needed some recognition on his part of what I was experiencing. I think you may find that just working with the tools here, and perhaps some Radical Acceptance can go a long way.

After you check out the link please let us know what you think!

[FromandTo]

For me, its not a matter of me telling her I think she has BPD. Its more like I think she is already in treatment for it, however may not have been given the direct diagnosis by her dr. I completely understand how knowing what is wrong with you can be discouraging; especially something as serious and misunderstood as BPD. I also would never think I know enough to diagnose her myself and make it my business to tell her. I have seen enough to know that she is absolutely aware of her difficulty with her emotions. She herself has said things like "I know Im difficult" and "I know I cant control my emotions but I do try." I know she tries all the time. My interest in speaking with her about it is definitely about me; but not solely. If she trusts me enough to tell me what she already has, then she wants help from me in understanding how her reactions come from my actions. If knowing more about her triggers specifically can make things easier on her than I want to do that. If it means going to therapy thats okay. I wouldnt just come right out and reference BPD. Im only thinking that if a comfortable situation arises, should I go deeper and what suggestions would anyone have in doing that. Thanks

[Radcliff]

Hi FromandTo,

I can't tell anything for certain, but based on what you are saying, that she gets new prescriptions for her medications, it sounds like she is seeing a psychiatrist, who is allowed to prescribe medications.  To me (admittedly a non-expert, so please take this with a grain of salt), that seems more like a checkup, so make sure nothing is going too badly, and that the medications are adjusted right.  Most therapists I've heard of meet their clients once a week, perhaps every other week if time and finances are limited.  The most effective treatment for BPD, called ":)BT," typically involves a once a week meeting for a skills group and a once a week meeting one-on-one with a therapist, if not more.  So while it seems like a good thing that she is under the treatment of a professional, it doesn't seem (to me as a non-expert) to be likely that she's receiving much treatment for BPD.

WW

[FromandTo]

Thank you WW, that makes sense and I have considered it as well. I definitely appreciate the fact that she is in the hands of a professional, and seems to have learned about herself considerably. From the beginning, not only did she tell me so much about her personal demons, but also explained how her mood swings are not fair to the people close to her. As I mentioned, she is an extreme homebody. Her bedroom is her safe zone, even from her own family which she lives with. She has told me how she sleeps through family gatherings, as well as how her family makes plans and doesn't inform her of them. Between her "spoiler" behavior, and regular detachment, it's definitely believable for both instances... .being the family may leave her out of family plans as well as she just misses the conversations in front of her entirely. I have had my own experiences with making plans, even brought up by her, and the end result is usually a rollercoaster ride of ups and downs and ending with something far from what the original intent was. Seemingly all just dramatic twists and turns to draw attention to herself. However, with more understanding of BPD, it's more recognizable as the constant push pull of needs and fears. I have been through her cycles now enough that she is keeping me around because she wants me around. I have nothing going on in my life to deny the existence of whatever possible good times we are able to share. I am also okay enough with myself to not need to depend on any daily outcomes. I do have interest though in making whatever progress is possible in lessening my negative effect on her reactions, and enhancing the random good moments that we continue to share. I have read through Dr. David Allen's 10 part series responding to BPD provocations, and would love to learn as much more as I can. It can be found here:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/matter-personality/201311/responding-borderline-provocations-part-i

[Radcliff]

Thanks for the link, FromandTo!

WW