Situation between breaking up and maybe saving the relationship

[Maya60]

Hi all,

I've been posting in the break up section for over 6 weeks now since I broke up with my ex. We've been together for over 2 years. living together in my small apartment for 11 months. He has two young kids (who visit in the weekends) and since he had to sell his house we started living together pretty soon in our relationships. Red flags have been there in the first year, but it went out of control for me when living together.

After three huge fights (where I went away to my parents for the night) I ended the relationship 6 weeks ago. He always agreed he needed therapy after those huge fights, but never actually went. He did try some therapy juts before he moved in, but it was focused on ADD or ADHD, which was not the case it turned out. And afterwards he did not wanted any therapy anymore.

I tried NC for many weeks, only practical communication by whatsapp or email. We did not meet. He left my house 1 week after we broke up.

Anyway, I missed him so much and tried to follow all the steps of breaking up. But now I have doubts. Serious doubts.
I replied to his messages yesterday by email. Asking him all I have been thinking about for weeks now.
-Why did he not reach out and seek help? Does he finally understand now what went wrong?

He replied and (off course) I received a perfect answer... .so sweet and kind.
BUT. There's a big BUT.
I see he says he will do anything to have another change with me. But going to therapy for me, that's not working. So I sent him another email... .I wanna know, does he really believe he needs help? Or is it fake? Just to please me.

I am willing to give him another change by living apart. Setting very good boundaries.
I will start my therapy next week and talk about this.

I've not said anything yet about these thoughts to him though. I'm still processing

At this moment I wait for a new reply on my long mail.

Any experience with this?
Starting again, but living separate?

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[Maya60]

He replied with many explanations. Lots of regrets about not seeing how import it was at that time to go to therapy. He says he's different and thinks different, so in retrospect he'd have done things differently cos now he knows he was wrong.

So now he says he wants to go in therapy for himself. But also something about not having money for this.
I am so confused  I'm thinking about replying to him that I'd be very happy to hear he wants to really do it this time... .But i'm also afraid that he's saying this cos he knows it's the only way to have a chance of being with me again.

But, what's fair? I could give him a chance and see what therapy will do and do some small steps towards a relationship again.
But what if this doesn't work? I mean, you can go search for help, but what if it isn't enough for us being together again? I am afraid he will blame me for spending money on therapy that did not result into a relationship.

Thinking about sending him these thoughts.

Please let me know if someone went through a similar situation 

[Tattered Heart]

I think what you are doing is noble and brave. I can also imagine how scary it is to not know how things will go.

It sounds like you are going about this with eyes wide open, understanding that it's important for him to get treatment, you want to make sure he just isn't giving you lip service, and you want to make sure that you are in a healthy place.

This process does not have to be a quick fix process. It can take a number of months or years, however much time you need to be more comfortable in restarting the relationship. Be prepared for the intense, strong emotions of attraction, idealization, and love bombing that can occur with being in a BPD relationship and have ways to help you remain in a realistic mindset instead of being swept away by the intensity of the emotions.

I would suggest looking at some short term and long term goals that can help you gauge his willingness to not just talk about getting help, but that shows action towards him trying to improve himself. What are some of the milestone markers that would show you "Ok. It's safe to move on to the next step"?

[Maya60]

Yes, I wonder though how big the change is a therapist will be able to help him. I mean, does a regular therapist has enough skills to detect BPD?
I am a bit worried though that they will search in another direction again. I don't know what he will say during a conversation, but I'm afraid he will not go in depth about the real issues in his life.

I'm gonna think about your questions.

Some first things that come up in my mind:

Short term:
-Number one: him getting a referral for therapy before the end of 2017.
-set good boundaries on when we will see each other.
-make plans for some therapy sessions together.
-not living together anymore: him getting his own apartment and taking care of his own life (he currently lives at his sister's and looking for a house).


Long term:
-see if there's real improvement in about a month or 6 therapy.
-can I just be myself again when with him.
-more responsibility from his side (his kids, financial, taking care of his own life).
-being able to talk about our issues without escalating.


Btw, I really appreciate your post. Feels like a very hard time for me now

[Maya60]

What makes it extra hard at this time, is because we broke up, I told people what happened. So now noone will be supportive to me  they hear the awfull stories, not the other part of my relationship.
I feel very alone in this situation. I dont know who to talk to since nobody will understand. They will say I'm crazy and that there are many more men around who would make me happy.

[Tattered Heart]

Those are great goals! Now begin breaking those goals into more specific type behaviors, for instance:

how much time do you want to spend together each week? what kinds of activities will you/won't you do together?
What does "real improvement" look like?
What does "being yourself with him" look like?

As for a regular counselor, until he meets with the therapist, it can be hard to determine whether he/she is able to successfully help someone with BPD. All therapists should be able to recognize and diagnose it, but some do not treat it or treat it well. Remind me again, does your pwBPD know he has BPD? If so, could you discuss a requirement for him to let his T know from the start that this is a diagnosis so that you do not have to start from scratch again?

With your T though, just be open and honest with her. I bet he/she can really help you narrow down those goals and even help you find ways to practice them, share them with your pwBPD, and maybe even add to them.

I'm sorry that you are feeling embarrassed about what you told your friends. I can imagine how it would feel to be in your situation. I would feel the same. I can also see how your friends would be concerned. Choose the friends/family who are most important to you, the ones who would be the most concerned and have a heart to heart with them. Share with them your process of reconciliation with your pwBPD. This could even be an opportunity for them to help hold you accountable to being true to yourself in the relationship. You might ask them to tell you when they see you losing yourself in him, withdrawing from friendships, or focusing too much on him. Let them know that the things you shared with them are still an issue for you and that you are working on concrete ways for making your relationship more healthy.

It is hard for loved ones outside of the family to understand why we would stick with someone with BPD. They don't get to see the great parts about them when things are going smooth. For my few friends who know about my H's BPD, I'll give them brief updates when things are going well. I try not to get into specific details about our issues here and instead might say that we are going through a rough patch or that my H has been kind of depressed, but I save the details for sharing on this site, with others who get it.

[Maya60]

Hi Tattered Heart,

Thank you so much for your kind reply. I had tears in my eyes reading it 

No he does not have been diagnosed with BPD. I'm just afraid that the possibility of recognizing and treating it well are very slim in the first place. I should try to keep up hope though.

I will talk to him Sunday afternoon in a cafe.
yes I thought a lot about your post and especially about the goals.
At this moment I think of 1 time a week, maybe 2 in a few weeks, going out. Lets say like cinema, dinner, a bar, or museum, but not at my place.
Cos that would make it too easy to have intercourse very quickly and I think that's not good for me now. I have to be reassured he will get a referral very quickly before I involve with him again on that emotion level.

I think just meeting a few times before I go on vacation (30th December for two weeks) is the first step. If he'll arrange therapy by the time I come back, this is a sign for step 2 for me.
Step 2 would be being able to spend a day and a night together.

About the long term goals: (6 months?)
Real improvement:
-less heavy agitation reactions
-less arguing
-being able to talk after a heavy discussion without blaming me instantly
-less dependency on me
-less jealousy and suspicion (this is a tough one, but I mean a step towards less of this).

being myself:
-stop walking on eggshells
-being able to share my thought and feelings without being judged or seeing this as a personal attack >> so space for my thoughts and feelings
-me being able to have my own life with friends and family, without discussions about this or me having feelings of guilt towards him (think of visiting male friends, going on holidays with my parents).

When I go to therapy, I wonder whether I can share my suspicion of him having BPD? Is that a odd thing to say... .?

Awww you are so sweet! Yes, one of my friends now understands why I want to contact, but doubts its the best idea. But he will support me anyway.
It's so difficult. I always feel very much intimidated when people close to me say I shouldn't  do something this way. I don't want to let down people. I am afraid my parents may let me down because they were actually happy we broke up...

I will try to find a way in this  and for the future, yes, I will be more careful on what to share with who.

[Maya60]

One thing that keeps me thinking though. Is when I meet him Sunday, whether I should confront him with the thing I heard from his ex about asking a girl out.
He keeps saying he is not been looking around for "replacement" but I know he lies.

I am a bit afraid though if I tell him, his ex will get backfired cos of this.

So i am a bit stuck here. Should I just tell him or not. Cos since we broke up I talked to his ex and we became friends. I will tell him about that since he already asked me about it.

[Maya60]

 The conversation went very well and we're gonna give it another shot he will arrange therapy referral this week.

Still gotta get used to the explosive love bombing right now. I see it so clear now since we haven't seen each other for two months. Its like a love napalm haha... .
I try to stay relaxed and keep my bounderies.

[Skip]

This is a recycle. Recycles generally don't work unless significant changes are made on both sides. Remember. a relationship is the interaction of two people.

You've talked a lot about he needs to change. Have you thought about your own?

[pearlsw]

Hi Maya60,

Thanks for this post and giving us all the chance to contemplate the range of issues raised here. I know you are dealing with a lot here. I want to echo the notion that there is a lot of self work to be done. I know I at times had a pretty arrogant attitude at certain points in my current relationship - thinking I knew about relationships and he didn't so much and sort of tossing it all at times when he could not stick to any kind of "script" I could understand.

I was sort of like "I've read all these communication books, so (whoopee) I've got this and you don't and I'm gonna take my cookies and leave when I couldn't get through to him - i.e. "reason" with him." Or something like that.  I would suggest you take this kind of step, and this is a step I take repeatedly, toss all you think you know, and I mean all, and start fresh. Everything. Take it all apart and rebuild.

You really have to examine your own assumptions, expectations, ideas about how a relationship "should" be and try something new here. I have personally seen big improvements just by taking this approach and making it a practice to study and revise my thinking and behavior constantly. Even small things help. Just making conversations more short and to the point for him helps - instead of giving major relationship speeches or not being the "apology police" when I don't like his apologies helps. Instead I edit myself down (I should do that here too!) and I listen to the meaning behind the apologies instead of worrying about the exact words so much. Just stuff like that.

I am also little by little getting better at validation, but I'm still not great at it. But I want to be great at it - so I need time and patience and hope for that to come together. There is a lot of work to do, but with discipline and mindfulness you could see some substantial changes. Set goals and standards for yourself - what can YOU do now to make things better no matter what he does or does not do. You'd be surprised how liberating it can be. If you are lucky it might even inspire him to make some of his own changes. My guy likes to copy me in certain ways so the better I am the better he is also able to be because he sees a good example.

wishing you the best, pearlsw.

[Maya60]

This is a recycle. Recycles generally don't work unless significant changes are made on both sides. Remember. a relationship is the interaction of two people.

You've talked a lot about he needs to change. Have you thought about your own?

Yes I do actually. When we want this to work we have both have to adjust and learn.
I will start my own therapy this week and try to learn about myself. I know Im a person who gets caught overthinking a lot in life, and I feel vulnerable too easily.  But also I feel a lot of pressure from my environment.

I also told him I d like to have some sessions together into therapy.

I will update later on this part

[Maya60]

Hi Maya60,

Thanks for this post and giving us all the chance to contemplate the range of issues raised here. I know you are dealing with a lot here. I want to echo the notion that there is a lot of self work to be done. I know I at times had a pretty arrogant attitude at certain points in my current relationship - thinking I knew about relationships and he didn't so much and sort of tossing it all at times when he could not stick to any kind of "script" I could understand.

I was sort of like "I've read all these communication books, so (whoopee) I've got this and you don't and I'm gonna take my cookies and leave when I couldn't get through to him - i.e. "reason" with him." Or something like that.  I would suggest you take this kind of step, and this is a step I take repeatedly, toss all you think you know, and I mean all, and start fresh. Everything. Take it all apart and rebuild.

You really have to examine your own assumptions, expectations, ideas about how a relationship "should" be and try something new here. I have personally seen big improvements just by taking this approach and making it a practice to study and revise my thinking and behavior constantly. Even small things help. Just making conversations more short and to the point for him helps - instead of giving major relationship speeches or not being the "apology police" when I don't like his apologies helps. Instead I edit myself down (I should do that here too!) and I listen to the meaning behind the apologies instead of worrying about the exact words so much. Just stuff like that.

I am also little by little getting better at validation, but I'm still not great at it. But I want to be great at it - so I need time and patience and hope for that to come together. There is a lot of work to do, but with discipline and mindfulness you could see some substantial changes. Set goals and standards for yourself - what can YOU do now to make things better no matter what he does or does not do. You'd be surprised how liberating it can be. If you are lucky it might even inspire him to make some of his own changes. My guy likes to copy me in certain ways so the better I am the better he is also able to be because he sees a good example.

wishing you the best, pearlsw.

Hi Pearlsw,

Thank you so much for your detailed reply.
Yes, I completely understand your point. And I know I shouldn't have a certain expectation all planned out for me and him.
For me the therapy part on his side is a start for me to know we are both very serious in trying to make this relationship work.

I'm 30 now, and I do feel a lot of pressure from my parents and close friends, asking me about making the right choice cos they think I'm not so young anymore, and if I wanna have kids I have to make the right decision NOW.
This is one of the things I should try to let go, and its very hard. So I always feel this extra weight on my back when choosing my own life. And especially at this moment, maybe I should let of those expectations of others who influenced me.
I know this relationship will always be difficult for both of us, but I gotta try it another way.  >> not "the script" anymore indeed.

I hope to learn to be more patient and not let myself get absorbed in fights about relatively small issues. I still get triggered by him too quick.
This all is for me the hardiest part as a very introvert person  I'd rather keep it all on the inside and then spit it out all at once
And another thing that comes to my mind: actually all my relationships ended after 2 years. So what's happening there?

The example part is true indeed he always says I inspired him doing other things in life he never did, like going to a museum together. Enjoying quiet evenings at home watching movies.

So I know we have a very strong bond and I wanna fight for it. I have no idea what the future may bring.

[Lady Itone]

What makes it extra hard at this time, is because we broke up, I told people what happened. So now noone will be supportive to me  they hear the awfull stories, not the other part of my relationship.
I feel very alone in this situation. I dont know who to talk to since nobody will understand. They will say I'm crazy and that there are many more men around who would make me happy.

Yep, I did the same thing. Now if I ever decide to go back to her, and she makes me miserable, I've lost the right to cry on their shoulder. Don't you think we kind of did that on purpose, though, told our people the truth of our relationship? We knew we would be tempted, and knowing our tribe will tear us a new one if we go back to someone bad for us makes us think twice

[Maya60]

Yep, I did the same thing. Now if I ever decide to go back to her, and she makes me miserable, I've lost the right to cry on their shoulder. Don't you think we kind of did that on purpose, though, told our people the truth of our relationship? We knew we would be tempted, and knowing our tribe will tear us a new one if we go back to someone bad for us makes us think twice

Yes I thought it would make me even more sure about breaking up. But not it is working against me.
I feel like I have to defend my decision of being together with him again.
And just like you say, I don't even dare to ask some people for support anymore. Two friends back me up, although not very enthusiastic... .
I feel like Im alone in this one.