I think I'm going to end a very old friendship...

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I have a friend that is incessantly negative, high-conflict, with poor emotional regulation skills and finally, after being in a closer proximity due to work obligations, I've discovered that I really just don't have the energy to maintain my composure and stay grounded anymore.

Our friendship goes back probably 7 or 8 years, and I've been pondering moving on from it for probably the last year or so. I have tried all of the communication tools, and feel that I use them rather consistently, but they don't seem to do too much. As of late, any disagreement is taken personally by my friend, as if it were an affront on their identity or some deep criticism that they can't reconcile in themselves.

I wouldn't say that I am walking on eggshells, as I've learned not to from previous relationships, but this is starting to effect me negatively. Namely, I just feel more stressed out because I have to work with this person in a professional capacity. There is very little compromise on their part, a lot of finger pointing and throwing other co-workers under the bus, and a lack of ability to either formulate or communicate long-term plans and ideas so that everyone is on the same page. There have always been other odd things too—lots of small lies, a distorted sense of right vs. wrong, and over the top care-taking desires that seem to provoke a sense of guilt in people that thwart them unless they're really on their toes.

In short, I suppose I am just venting. But I think I've had enough of this friendship and want out. I'll be leaving my job for another opportunity come March, so I already have a plan in the works. I am just looking for ways to minimize the impact of these final, somewhat excruciating seeming months with a high level of contact involved. It seems like it's going to be a big challenge for me from where I stand today.

[valet]

I have a friend that is incessantly negative, high-conflict, with poor emotional regulation skills and finally, after being in a closer proximity due to work obligations, I've discovered that I really just don't have the energy to maintain my composure and stay grounded anymore.

Our friendship goes back probably 7 or 8 years, and I've been pondering moving on from it for probably the last year or so. I have tried all of the communication tools, and feel that I use them rather consistently, but they don't seem to do too much. As of late, any disagreement is taken personally by my friend, as if it were an affront on their identity or some deep criticism that they can't reconcile in themselves.

I wouldn't say that I am walking on eggshells, as I've learned not to from previous relationships, but this is starting to effect me negatively. Namely, I just feel more stressed out because I have to work with this person in a professional capacity. There is very little compromise on their part, a lot of finger pointing and throwing other co-workers under the bus, and a lack of ability to either formulate or communicate long-term plans and ideas so that everyone is on the same page. There have always been other odd things too—lots of small lies, a distorted sense of right vs. wrong, and over the top care-taking desires that seem to provoke a sense of guilt in people that thwart them unless they're really on their toes.

In short, I suppose I am just venting. But I think I've had enough of this friendship and want out. I'll be leaving my job for another opportunity come March, so I already have a plan in the works. I am just looking for ways to minimize the impact of these final, somewhat excruciating seeming months with a high level of contact involved. It seems like it's going to be a big challenge for me from where I stand today.

[pearlsw]

Hi valet,

Nice to meet you! Sounds like you are giving us some helpful advice while sharing yourself here!

Can you tell us more about how you learned not to walk on eggshells?

May I ask, will the friendship die away naturally when you make the job change or are you planning to directly notify the person that it is over? Does this person already know you are leaving and does that fact help take any of the tension out of things?

wishing you the best, pearlsw.

[valet]

Hey pearl, thanks for the reply.

I'd say that I am going to go the route of just letting things die down naturally. I have other friends that are much more reasonable—people that I really enjoy spending my time with. And I think that if I were to make some kind of proclamation it would make things worse for everyone.

My plans are already known throughout the organization I work for. Rather than reducing tension, however, my friend/co-worker will use this information to avoid productive solutions to problems. For instance, "you're leaving so what's the point!", when I ask about coming up with yearly outreach strategies, or budget plans. This doesn't happen all of the time, of course, but it does happen consistently, and I have not seen any real motivation to change this type of behavior even when abundant solutions are presented directly by me or other staff.

I see where he's coming from. I tend to be pretty assertive about what I think is best in a professional environment. My instincts say that maybe my friend finds this style of communication threatening, hence the taking things personally. So, in essence, it is not about what I am saying, but rather about my friend's feeling of inadequacy. That said, it is hard to validate someone that shuts down during a discussion or meeting, then refuses to return unless their desires are placated. And it is especially difficult in a work setting.

Not everyone that I work with is as direct as I am, but I'd say that I have pretty healthy dynamics with the rest of the office. There is respect, generally productive debate, and mutual problem solving going on. We get a lot done, we joke around, and people aren't afraid of saying the wrong thing to each other.

Either way, I try my best not to pick up any sort of dramatic conflict. I understand that my emotions are valid and refuse to allow other people to tell me how I should feel. I'd say that my boundaries are pretty firm about these issues. In this particular situation, however, they're become really draining to maintain. I need some space.

[formflier]

Hey Valet. 

Sorry to say I don't know much about your story, but I do like talking about workplace relationships and it sounds like you have been going above and beyond... directly.

I like direct communications, even assertive.  (I'm retired Naval Officer and have had several CEO type positions since retirement)

If you could share a bit of he said she said, perhaps there is some coaching we could pass along.  I understand that can sometimes be difficult, so perhaps staying big picture is best.  I'll let you decide.

I often coach people to "be more authentic" when trying to solve a problem.  You are a direct guy... .so take that up a few notches.  Perhaps "direct, deliberate and focused" are words that you should use when reflecting and planning your next moves.

An example/suggestion.  Invite you friend to lunch and "be direct" once the conversation starts about your purpose.

"I perceive some tension in our relationship and want to understand how you feel about our relationship and how we can improve our work and personal time together."

Something like that.

Ask him directly if he takes it personally when you are asking him for things.  or perhaps "I hope you are not taking it personally when I'm fulfilling my role as... .(insert job title).

Big picture message from you to him.  You guys have history, you value him in a work situation and personally, you want to understand how he sees things and do your best to improve things.

Am I on the right track here?

What do you think?

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I can see the possible benefits of FF’s suggestion of getting it all out in the open with your friend/coworker, yet I can also see the downsides too and you sound like you’re exhausted dealing with him.

The polar opposite strategy might be avoiding group meetings and just dealing one on one with your coworkers and not including this guy. It’s hard to get an understanding of your work situation and what options you might have.

I’ve had close friends who over time, have gotten so needy and difficult that it really wore me down and I didn’t want to have anything to do with them. Now, I’m renewing my friendship with one woman who fell into this category and she’s now delightful. Is it possible to just “take a break”from him?

[valet]

An example/suggestion.  Invite you friend to lunch and "be direct" once the conversation starts about your purpose.

"I perceive some tension in our relationship and want to understand how you feel about our relationship and how we can improve our work and personal time together."

Something like that.

Ask him directly if he takes it personally when you are asking him for things.  or perhaps "I hope you are not taking it personally when I'm fulfilling my role as... .(insert job title).

Big picture message from you to him.  You guys have history, you value him in a work situation and personally, you want to understand how he sees things and do your best to improve things.

Am I on the right track here?

What do you think?

FF

Hey FF, I've tried this a few times before to no avail. At this point I don't fill willing or comfortable enough to reach out anymore. Whenever I have been direct about my emotional capacity and needs, this person will shut down or change the subject abjectly. It goes in ear and out the other, so to speak. More so, I just feel over it. This person isn't going to change, and I need to do something to protect my sanity. The stress is getting to me and I'm struggling to cope.

I suppose it has gotten somewhat personal for me too. Many of my ideas & achievements either aren't acknowledged or are greeted with sarcasm. As I mentioned earlier, there are lots of very subtle slights, triggered mainly by simple differences of opinion that could easily be discussed. Things like "you're missing the point", "you haven't been here as long as me", "we're just gonna do what I want here". Cumulatively this has really eroded my trust. I almost feel resentful, even.

So, the situation seems umreconciliable from my current perspective, as I've asked for changes and none of them have come for any lengthy period of time.

I can see the possible benefits of FF’s suggestion of getting it all out in the open with your friend/coworker, yet I can also see the downsides too and you sound like you’re exhausted dealing with him.

The polar opposite strategy might be avoiding group meetings and just dealing one on one with your coworkers and not including this guy. It’s hard to get an understanding of your work situation and what options you might have.

I’ve had close friends who over time, have gotten so needy and difficult that it really wore me down and I didn’t want to have anything to do with them. Now, I’m renewing my friendship with one woman who fell into this category and she’s now delightful. Is it possible to just “take a break”from him?

I think it would be wonderful if I could ignore him in the office and only deal with my other co-workers, but unfortunately this isn't really an option. I work for a small organization (there are only 5 of us) with an open office setup. We're also basically doing the same kind of work departmentally, so I really am professionally obligated by the requirements of my position to interact with him frequently. In a way I feel a little trapped by the situation, hence the uptick in stress levels.

Maybe I need to put more work in at changing this person's role in my life internally. In some way I am a bit enmeshed in the sense of obligation that friendship partially entails. I am too close in those ways. I guess then, I need to reframe how I think about him. And this will have to include fully acknowledging his high conflict nature and treating these situations correctly, instead of enabling in the name of professionalism and a somewhat obsolete friendship.

As an aside, I don't think that this is going to end up being a 'take a break' type of situation. There is a level of emotional maturity that I need someone else to have in order for me to really want to be around them. As a general rule I try to avoid people that complain too much, play dirty in disagreements, and bring drama to the dynamics they're involved in. This really is who my friend is. I almost feel a bit silly for not recognizing it earlier.

Thanks for your feedback!

[formflier]

Are you guys coworkers or is there a junior to senior dynamic here?

Have you talked with your boss about this?


Your previous answer has me leaning towards boundaries and focus on professionalism at work.

Looking forward to your answers.

FF

[valet]

There isn't an explicit junior/senior dynamic. I have a lot of independence and am treated this way by my other co-workers, boss included.

I haven't gone to my boss with my own thoughts formally, although I have mentioned things in a non-work setting (grabbing drinks after work, or at public events). My boss has verbally warned my co-worker about things like this on several occasions over the past several months. This behavior hasn't gone unnoticed and I'd say that it effects the office in a negative way far more than it reasonably should. That said, nothing has changed.

Truthfully, I also don't feel like there needs to be an intervention in that capacity. I stand up for myself when these issues occur and try not to take any abuse. The last incident was a few days ago. Co-worker was gaslighting and personally attacking me during a one on one discussion. I started to get noticeably angry so I left the room.

Later on I confronted him about it. I basically said, "I'm sorry how I expressed my anger earlier. These conversations can be frustrating to me and maybe you feel the same. But I won't accept this kind of behavior anymore. It has to stop." He didn't say a word to me during this, couldn't apologize or take any responsibility for his behavior. This has been the pattern more or less.

The silver lining is that I've already reached my wits end at this point and don't see the need to give him the benefit of the doubt as my friend anymore. That doesn't feel like a victory to me. It actually really sucks, because I used to have a lot of respect for my co-worker. But I don't really see any other option that works for me anymore.

[valet]

I got a message from my friend on Christmas morning apologizing for his behavior. It came about a week late, but I'll take it. He is extremely avoidant in these situations and I had plainly expected not to receive any sort of response to the last time I confronted him. I haven't responded and don't see any need to. I've already stated my position multiple times.

Still, I'm hesitant to accept any sort of apology as anything but words. He'll have to walk to walk the walk just like anyone else.

I really haven't changed my plans, but I'm hoping that things will improve enough temporarily for me to not be in this state of emotional exhaustion. I have a new job knocking at the door, so there's something to look forward to. Until then, I'm going to enjoy the rest of my time off for the holidays.

I hope all of you are doing the same!  

[formflier]

Valet,

I'm glad you got an apology from your friend/coworker. 

How did you accept the apology?  What did you say in return? 

My current take on this is for you to focus on this as a professional work challenge.  That will most likely help you depersonalize things and give you the space you so obviously need. 

After a time of space it is likely you will see the relationship in an entirely different light.  Making decisions when "exhausted" with a relationship is likely not to have a good long term outcome.

Hoping you have a good holiday season as well.

FF

[valet]

Hey FF, I had to walk myself back on not saying anything to his reply. It would have been pretty odd for me not acknowledge an apology. So I basically just said, 'Great, glad you understand. Thanks for listening.' And that's that.

I agree that I need to be more conscious of how I react to these things over time. My main issue is the constant complaining about other co-workers or friends, which I said I didn't want to hear multiple times. That's basically the root of the problem. I shouldn't have to support someone emotionally in that capacity (we are all adults), and over time it made me feel bitter.

I'm still working through that, but anyways, lesson learned for the time being. I'm going to do my best to keep that type of behavior at an arm's length, and think about it more like an 'occupational hazard' that I can distance myself from in one way or another.

Thanks for your feedback.

[formflier]

Can you give a little word for word to show how a complaining session goes?  That used to be a big part of the relationship with my wife.  She would bring up a topic or person and then the opinion (usually negative) would come out.  If I wasn't onboard, there was a price to pay (on bad days) and my wife would continue in a funk (on good days).

As with most things with pwBPD, there is no "fix" but things can be made much better. 

For me, I would emphasize that I had my own opinions.  "Are you asking my opinion about (fill in blank)". 

"Well... don't you agree with what I just said?"  to which I would say "That was interesting, yet I would express it differently.  Would you like to listen?"  (usually she would not).  My part in the fix was to remain neutral and not "take the bait" as she tried to get me back to the old patterns.

Did it totally fix it?   Nope... .she still complains, but it is much... much... .less.  Every once in a while she will actually ask my opinion and listen.

Plus I am much more direct... .sometimes, when I don't have time.  "I'm not able to talk about (fill in blank right now).  Do you want to talk about (abc)."   Perhaps you can use something like that to redirect things.  No explanations... .no requests for apologies... .just redirect and don't engage in complaints.

If he keeps talking about (complaining), excuse yourself for an important phone call... .or email.  (no drama or explanation... .just excuse yourself). 

I'm with you though.  Listening to (unsolvable) complaints can be maddening and exhausting.  I tend to be a glass half full guy and I hate it when people seem to only see the negative... .or ignore all the good news.

FF

[valet]

A complaining session usually starts during most conversations. So, discussing a project will lead to complaining about how one or another co-worker isn't pulling their weight, or the whole thing isn't going to work because of x or y, or sometimes the old 'what's the point' type of exclamation.

I would also consider myself a glass half full type of guy and find a lot of interest in optimizing things with available means. So his mentality can directly clash with mine and it feels demoralizing to have to work together. Especially when it seems like I'm going to have little support with something. I like collaborating with others and tend to have an organizer-esque personality. My friend will get sidetracked and refuse to negotiate on making plans with things.

That said, I think you and I are in pretty different situations. From what I gather you're trying to strengthen your marriage and really see it through. I don't find that I feel that way about my friend. I'd like to move on with my life and embrace the people and things that seem healthiest and most productive to me. I don't want to be involved with anyone that takes away from my being too much. Essentially, the friendship has become more bad than good, and I don't see that changing without some kind of intervention (for my friend) that I can't be a part of. He needs to learn to work on himself instead of over prescribing to the 'I'm always right' train of thought.

I agree that there is more than I can do to avoid behaviors that bother me. I can be more assertive, work on changing the subject, and not accepting the burden of his constant complaining, etc. But I don't plan on doing this longer than I have to.

[Cat Familiar]

Since you’ll be soon leaving that job and you’re not interested in continuing that friendship, why not interrupt him whenever he starts complaining, saying something neutral like “let’s not get sidetracked.”

What if you see it as an opportunity to exercise your assertiveness skills in a non threatening way? You could use these interactions as a way to stretch your abilities, knowing that you’re likely to encounter other equally unpleasant individuals in th future. Sort of like being a lion tamer at work and having fun with it?

[valet]

Since you’ll be soon leaving that job and you’re not interested in continuing that friendship, why not interrupt him whenever he starts complaining, saying something neutral like “let’s not get sidetracked.”

What if you see it as an opportunity to exercise your assertiveness skills in a non threatening way? You could use these interactions as a way to stretch your abilities, knowing that you’re likely to encounter other equally unpleasant individuals in th future. Sort of like being a lion tamer at work and having fun with it?

This has been my usual strategy. I guess over the last year I got tired of constantly having to stay focused on a simple boundary issue, while keeping myself grounded and not getting sucked in. I think that I'm generally pretty good in these situations, but there is always room for improvement.

I don't think that embracing some kind of lion tamer mentality is a good idea for me. I feel like that's a quick route to sarcasm and I'm not trying to feed into the pattern or make things worse for anyone. In other words, I don't want to have an internal dialogue that promotes belittling someone as a way to defend my boundaries. I'd say it's best for me to just look at it for what it is and stand up for myself when I need to.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying though. Could you clarify for me?

[Cat Familiar]

I know what you mean about sarcasm and in situations similar to yours, my internal snarkiness can amuse me momentarily, but as you say, it's not a pleasant place to dwell when it comes down to belittling someone due to exhaustion and being overwhelmed at defending one's boundaries.

I guess what I was trying to say with the lion tamer metaphor is creating a skillful dance and leading/allowing your "partner" to arrive at a pleasant destination that is amenable to both of you.

I spend a fair amount of my time training animals and my approach is quite different from many others who use dominance and force. I think of the animals as equals, just with different awareness and abilities, many of which are far superior to mine. So I try and build a bridge so that we're in harmony and I "suggest" that they do certain things. When we're sharing the same mindset, it can be magical and our communication can be far better than anything I imagine.

So that was the idea. With regard to your former friend/coworker, I can see there has been a lot of efforting on your part to keep things flowing smoothly as possible and to not get derailed into one of his tangents of complaining.

My thought was to engage your creativity in "directing" him, maybe like a conductor of an orchestra, and eliciting more helpful and useful behavior instead of the usual litany of complaints. IDK, your options may be really limited, but it does seem like a good opportunity to try new approaches since you are moving onto other things and you're not interested in maintaining the friendship, so there's nothing to lose.

[valet]

I think you're on to something there. In a group setting it is very easy for me to steer a conversation away from topics I don't want to discuss, but one on one I can struggle and get frustrated over time, in this particular context.

I think what you're really getting at (from my vantage point) is learning to be more tactful with difficult people. I'll reflect on that and see what I can come up with. There are definitely clever ways that I can defend my boundaries while keeping things respectful and calm. When I was still friends with my BPDex I had gotten really good at this, but I haven't seen her for a while and I suppose those muscles grew a bit weak. So, it appears that it's time to strengthen them a bit again.

Thanks for the discussion. I really appreciate it!

[formflier]

I think I'm getting a better vibe of how he gets you off track at work.

Try out this word track... ."I need to get back to... (fill in the blank)."

What I'm seeing is you are trying to involve him in "optimizing" or tweaking an idea for work.  That somehow triggers something inside him where he wants to start complaining or "that will never work".

He is likely not aware of changing the subject.  Your "job" is to clarify what YOUR conversation is about and keep YOUR project on track at work.

"Hmmm... perhaps you are right."  pause... ."I need to get back to analysis of the Pederson contract second page... ."  

pause

":)o you have anymore thoughts on the language we have been talking about... ." (refocus on work)

"Exercising" these skills, even on a friendship you are ready to "let fade awa" is going to make you a better worker, wherever you work.

Do you think this will work for you?

FF

[valet]

Hey FF, I think I have a pretty clear strategy defined for myself moving forward. I appreciate your words.

Have a happy new year!