Running away for the holidays

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

  She told me that those were just words and that she wanted to see action and hung up on me.

 

Do you see the manipulation here?

It's important that you gain the skill to "see it" and the will power to respond in a healthy way, which many times means ignoring it.

FF

[formflier]

  She told me that those were just words and that she wanted to see action and hung up on me.

 

Do you see the manipulation here?

It's important that you gain the skill to "see it" and the will power to respond in a healthy way, which many times means ignoring it.

FF

[formflier]

Push pull advice:


Did she tell you that she loves you?  Or did you say it first?

Not good if you said it first... that likely "triggered" the rest of the response... .it was invalidating to her.

Do you understand that and see that?  Very different that saying you like it or agree.

FF

[prof]

Did she tell you that she loves you?  Or did you say it first?

I said it first.

Not good if you said it first... that likely "triggered" the rest of the response... .it was invalidating to her.

Do you understand that and see that?  Very different that saying you like it or agree.

Hrm, that does make sense.

She texted again recently saying that it was "unacceptable" that I haven't responded to her.  I still haven't responded.  I can't imagine what I could say that would actually help anything right now.

[formflier]

I said it first.

Hrm, that does make sense.

She texted again recently saying that it was "unacceptable" that I haven't responded to her.  I still haven't responded.  I can't imagine what I could say that would actually help anything right now.

So... .going forward (until things calm)... .never ever ever ever ever say this first.  Also... .never say you hate her first.

Take what she gives you and "cut it in half". 

So she says "I hate you, get away, you smell... blah blah blah  "... .you respond "Time apart seems good now" (or something like that)  Same signal (a push) but less extreme.

Same for love bombs... .

Your goal is to remove resistance for her to get back to neutral.

Please don't respond.  If you don't know what to say... .say nothing.

Explain again, in detail, what she wants you to respond to that is unacceptable you haven't responded to yet.

I'll try to craft something "acceptable".

FF

[prof]

Please don't respond.  If you don't know what to say... .say nothing.

I haven't responded to any texts.  She did call again a little bit ago and I picked up.  She asked why I hadn't responded to texts and I said that I didn't know what to say.  She eventually started swearing at me so I hung up.

Explain again, in detail, what she wants you to respond to that is unacceptable you haven't responded to yet.

I'll try to craft something "acceptable".

Thanks, FF!  Here's a quote from one of her texts that pretty much sums everything up:

I can't come home until I feel you're actually going to try with our marriage. ... .  Texting me back and engaging in conversation with me is the least of the ways to respect me.

[formflier]

I can't come home until I feel you're actually going to try with our marriage. ... . Texting me back and engaging in conversation with me is the least of the ways to respect me.

So... .do you guys do MC?  Have you ever done MC?

Catch me up on this.

Honestly... .less communication is better right now.

My initial thoughts on responses were a bit snarky... .

that being said... .you don't want long periods of ignoring her.

perhaps

"Hey... .I'm not ignoring your texts.  I find them confusing and don't know how to respond. I'm at a loss... .perhaps a third party could help us communicate respectfully to each other.  What do you think?"

then give it lots of time before texting again... .slow things down.

Let several calls go to voice mail... .stretch things out.

What do you think?

FF

[prof]

So... .do you guys do MC?  Have you ever done MC?

Catch me up on this.

Yes, we've seen three different MC's in the last few years.  We liked the second one the best -- we saw him towards the end of this past summer when things were really bad -- but he was too expensive.

The third one is a bit cheaper, and also works in the same office as my T.  We liked him ok, but not as much as the second one.

Honestly... .less communication is better right now.

My initial thoughts on responses were a bit snarky... .

that being said... .you don't want long periods of ignoring her.

perhaps

"Hey... .I'm not ignoring your texts.  I find them confusing and don't know how to respond. I'm at a loss... .perhaps a third party could help us communicate respectfully to each other.  What do you think?"

then give it lots of time before texting again... .slow things down.

Let several calls go to voice mail... .stretch things out.

I sent essentially this text just now.  (I ended up falling asleep shortly after my last post last night.)  This morning, she had also sent me a text saying that one of her tires was slashed.  So I also included a reminder that we have a AAA membership.

She called me immediately, but I let it ring like you suggested.

S5 is spending the day with a friend, so I have the day to myself.  I'm going to try to make the best of it and get some work done, but I'm afraid that anxiety over uBPDw will bring things down.

[formflier]

"I'm sorry you are dealing with a slashed tire.  Our AAA membership number is (enter) and the number to call them is (enter)."

I wouldn't be opposed to a text like that.

I also wouldn't be opposed to you taking a phone call and dealing with helping her specifically and only with the slashed tire issue.  I also wouldn't be opposed to you letting her deal with it, she is an adult.

If you are not confident in your abilities to get back to the slashed tire and or hang up if she wants to discuss a pink elephant, a unicorn, your efforts in the relationship, who shot JFK, or a faked moon landing... .then don't call.  

Perhaps her tire isn't slashed... .don't ask... .but it should be in the back of your mind.  

So... let's assume you take the phone call.

friendly.

"can I help you with the slashed tire situation?  I'm so sorry you are dealing with this... "

blah blah blah "you have a booger, you made this happen, you must plant a shrubbery for me to come home"

stay friendly

"Hey... .I need to get back to helping you with the slashed tire... ."  Nothing more... nothing less.

If she gets back to slashed tire... .help her.  

If she tells you she needs two shrubberies now for your insolence... ."I'm available to help with your slashed tire, contact me when you are able to talk about that."  click... hang up.

Thoughts?

Do you see how this is arranged... .?  Note: She won't like this... .but you are establishing your boundaries... .

FF

[prof]

uBPDw sent a couple texts initially after I didn't take her phone call, pleading that she didn't want to have to type everything and would rather talk.  Obviously she wanted to talk about more than just the tire.

I haven't responded.  A few minutes ago, she asked why I'm ignoring her texts.  (Never mind that my previous text basically answered this --  I don't know how to respond!)

[formflier]

 
I would recommend sending her the text with the AAA information.  Look at my previous post.

I would recommend asking her "I'm so sorry you are dealing with slashed tire.  How else can I help you with the tire?"

It gives information she may need.

You express sorrow.  You specifically ask if she needs more help with tire.

Limit the discussion to what you are willing to discuss.

And... .to be clear.  If you are worn out... .if you just don't want to or need a break.  There is nothing wrong with taking time off from texting or calling.

You know... .perhaps another good response.

"I'm available to help with your slashed tire.  Have you been able to fix that?"

Thoughts?

FF

[prof]

Now she's saying she can't walk.  If she moves, then she gets nauseous, etc.  I haven't even bothered responding.

[formflier]

Now she's saying she can't walk.  If she moves, then she gets nauseous, etc.  I haven't even bothered responding.

So... she is texting you, therefore she can call 911 if needed.

Has the tire thing gone away?

Have you responded to any  texts today?

I'm wondering if (thinking aloud) you need to say something along the lines of ":)o you need my help calling for medical assistance?"

This looks like "bids" to be rescued... .and I think you are doing right thing by staying out of it.

FF

[prof]

So... she is texting you, therefore she can call 911 if needed.

My thoughts exactly.

Has the tire thing gone away?

Seems like it -- she only mentioned it the one time.

Have you responded to any  texts today?

I haven't responded to anything since my initial text this morning.

I'm wondering if (thinking aloud) you need to say something along the lines of ":)o you need my help calling for medical assistance?"

This looks like "bids" to be rescued... .and I think you are doing right thing by staying out of it.

Again, my thoughts exactly.

[formflier]

OK... so how are you doing with all of this? 

Can you focus on other things?  Do something special with your son?

FF

[prof]

OK... so how are you doing with all of this?  

Can you focus on other things?  :)o something special with your son?

I'm doing ok.  S5's still with his friend.  I'm at my office and have gotten some work done.  I'm more distracted than I would be on a normal day, but it's not horrible.

[formflier]

Solid work!


Since you seem to have some adult alone time, see if you can take a break and do something special for you... .because... .it's you.

The new drink... .burger... .whatever.


FF

[prof]

The family of S5's friend invited me to join them for dinner.  Then I took S5 home, got him ready for bed and watched some TV.

I haven't contacted uBPDw since yesterday morning.  She texted and called a number of times.  And even had one of her friends text me, too.

I'm not sure what to do.  My urge to just go rescue her like I'm used to doing is getting higher and higher.

[formflier]

  My urge to just go rescue her like I'm used to doing is getting higher and higher.

I'm glad you realize this.  Generally speaking that should indicate that you NOT do this.

Can you share what else your wife texted about?  Can you share what the friend texted?

So, when looking at the way forward, realize there are few "right or wrong answers".

There is balance as you weigh boundaries and not speaking (when you are not sure what to do) compared to  "pouring gas" on abandonment fears by being NC.

Without knowing exactly what the friend or wife texted most recently, I would think at some point a very general communication might be appropriate.

"S5 and I miss you and hope your time away allows you to reflect on your life and bring a sense of peace and calm."

How often has this type of thing happened in your relationship?  How has it normally ended before? 

FF

 

[prof]

I'm glad you realize this.  Generally speaking that should indicate that you NOT do this.

Ok, cool.

Can you share what else your wife texted about?  Can you share what the friend texted?

uBPDw's texts essentially say, "Why are you ignoring me?  Why are you hurting me?  I'm sick and can't get home."

The friend just asked me to call.  This was more recent than any of uBPDw's texts, which partly has me concerned that something has happened.

So, when looking at the way forward, realize there are few "right or wrong answers".

There is balance as you weigh boundaries and not speaking (when you are not sure what to do) compared to  "pouring gas" on abandonment fears by being NC.

Without knowing exactly what the friend or wife texted most recently, I would think at some point a very general communication might be appropriate.

"S5 and I miss you and hope your time away allows you to reflect on your life and bring a sense of peace and calm."

I don't know if that would make sense -- she's very clearly not calm!

How often has this type of thing happened in your relationship?  How has it normally ended before?  

This is the first time that she's left for any length of time.

[formflier]

Tell me about the friend.  Does the friend know about relationship drama? 

Generally avoiding third parties is good advice... .but...

"Thanks for reaching out.  I'm in direct contact with (insert name).  It appears she is taking some time for herself.  If you know of a specific need, please let me know.  It means a lot to me that you reached out."

You reveal no details and express some concern.  Thoughts?

FF

[formflier]

I don't know if that would make sense -- she's very clearly not calm!

This is the first time that she's left for any length of time.

OK... so you are setting precedent.  I tend to think 1 text (or texting conversation) per day and perhaps a phone call is healthy.  Perhaps text for a few minutes.  5 minute phone conversation. 

You stay in control of time and obviously end it if boundary busting happens. 

Don't explain why (no JADE)... .

What are your thoughts on texting.

"Hey... .looks like I'll have time to call shortly after lunch today.  Does 1:30 work for you?"

FF

[prof]

Tell me about the friend.  Does the friend know about relationship drama? 

Generally avoiding third parties is good advice... .but...

"Thanks for reaching out.  I'm in direct contact with (insert name).  It appears she is taking some time for herself.  If you know of a specific need, please let me know.  It means a lot to me that you reached out."

You reveal no details and express some concern.  Thoughts?

This is the friend/weed dealer that uBPDw's been staying with.  I'm sure she knows pretty much everything.

[prof]

uBPDw's now just calling me nonstop.  At last count, there were 25 missed calls, with no end in sight.

I'm definitely not picking up right now.  Not sure what to say when I finally do contact her later.  "Get some rest -- I hope you feel better!  Do you have the AAA card so you can get the car taken care of once you're feeling up to it."  Something like that?

[formflier]

Go back up and look at my text about the AAA card.  Provide her the membership number and the phone number to call.

Then ask if there is any other help she needs with the tire.

I'm debating in my head if you should say something about not being able to talk right now, but asking if 2pm is a good time.

There is a subtle difference between controlling the conversation and going NC.  I tend to lean to you controlling the conversation... .which could mean ending it, if she is just wanting to rant.

Give her the opportunity for a healthy conversation.

Thoughts?

FF

[formflier]

  "Get some rest -- I hope you feel better!  

I'm NOT a fan of this.

Listen... people misplace cards and information all the time.  That's no big rescue and it gives her NO EXCUSE for not handling the tire herself. 

She is adult... and can determine when to rest or not.   

By saying you hope she feels better... .you are suggesting she feels bad.  Stay away from that.

With her all worked up, I would stay away from any talk about feelings.  Perhaps express confidence in her...

FF

[GaGrl]

I like the confidence comments.

 "I have every confidence that you can take care of XYZ... ."

[formflier]

"I have every confidence that you can take care of XYZ... ."

Yes yes yes... .

Combine this with a very slight... .gentle "bid towards".

https://www.gottman.com/blog/turn-toward-instead-of-away/

So... .to my knowledge, gottman's work is not specifically focused on BPD.  He does highlight that in our everyday interactions we either "tell" our partner "Hey... .I like you... .let's be closer... " or "Hey... I'm not so fond of you... let's have space"

Prof... you are doing a great job breaking the cycle, changing the dance, recognizing in yourself your urges that contributed to getting where you are now (and changing those)...      

And yes... .when your partner is telling you to "effe off" that is a "push" signal and generally giving them a "pull" signal is not advised.

You are in uncharted territory here and are setting a precedent. 

Definitely express confidence (and include the AAA number and phone number) and I think by making a specific offer to help (by asking specifically) you are making a "bid towards" her (albeit a slight one).

Thoughts?

FF

[prof]

I took S5 to church this morning.  We were really active in our old church before we moved here 2.5 years ago.  But ever since, uBPDw has claimed to not feel well on Sunday mornings when I've brought up the idea of checking out an area church.

I was hoping for some big sign from the sermon.  I didn't quite get that, but it did help bring some peace.  I had some really bad anxiety about the whole situation this morning, and it's pretty much gone now.

The church ladies all fell in love with S5 and they're already starting to recruit me to sing their choir, .


I'd left my phone in the car during the service.  When I got out, I saw a text from uBPDw saying that she had taken all the money from my bank account to take care of the tire.  :\  (BTW -- the final count was 98 missed calls from her this morning... .)

I responded that it was great that she'd taken care of the tire, and that I was running some errands but would video chat her when I got home.

I kept to my word and called her over video chat.  S5 showed her a new toy car he'd bought for himself and she told him that she loved him.  Eventually, she asked to speak to me and we switched to regular phone.

I began by answering a question she had asked over text while I was driving home about whether she'd left something home.  Then she started going into how horribly I was treating her and that I wasn't letting her speak to her son.  (It's true that this was the first time they'd video chatted in a couple days.)  It was obviously moving quickly toward rage.  I told her things were getting too animated and hung up.

She's texted once since:

Why are you being so horrible?  You know what I'm asking for - it's not confusing.  You just don't care.  What the f$#! did you want to do?

[formflier]

"It's not confusing.  I'm not able to talk to you with rageful talk between us"

or "abusive talk" or some other description.

Note:  You didn't say she did it... .  You are stating your value regarding talk and you are describing you two as an "us".

If she wants to remove what has come between you... that is her choice.

you could tone down the description of the talk if you can think of better word...

Only send her this explanation once... .(at least today)


How much did she take out for the tire?

FF

[prof]

"It's not confusing.  I'm not able to talk to you with rageful talk between us"

But it is confusing!  With all the push/pull, I have no idea what she wants.

How much did she take out for the tire?

She emptied my account out, but there was only like $100 in there.  So pretty fair for a tire.