Dumped again like a pair of old jeans.

[Meili]

Oh often are you contacting her compared to her contacting you?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Etuhu]

She hasn't really contacted me at all... .

This is why I either think she lost all interest or she is busy with someone else... .

Feels a bit strange.

[Meili]

If she's not contact you at all, then it's best to not contact her. That's chasing. That is unattractive and contrary to what you want to do: make yourself the most attractive option.

By attractive, we don't me physically per se; we mean emotionally and mentally attractive. Being needy and clingy is not attractive. It shows the other person that you are not emotionally strong, and being emotionally strong is very important to a pwBPD.

I know that it feels counter-intuitive. When my relationship first ended, I thought that chasing her would show her how much I loved her and how important she was to me. It had the exact opposite effect. It showed her that she could do whatever she wanted and treat me however she felt. It caused her to lose all attraction for me.

What are you afraid will happen if you stop contacting her without her responding? Are you afraid that she will forget about you? If that is the case, that puts things in the position that either she will forget about you, or she'll be annoyed by and not want anything to do with you. Which do you think gives you the best chance at salvaging the relationship?

[Etuhu]

Well, none because how am I to salvage anything if she has forgotten about me?

Is it likely she has forgotten me by now? It's been a month and a half of us not seeing each other.

[Meili]

One of the beautiful things about living in the digital age is that we can show people things without every having direct contact with the person. My x and I have spoken exactly once in the past year, but we can each tell you what the other is doing and who they are involved with etc. We don't even have to pay attention because people tell us. It's almost creepy now that I think about it... .

Anyway, what I was trying to get at is that there are still ways for people to know what is going on and to see improvements and changes in the other person's life.

Has she forgotten about you? None of us can say. BPD is a spectrum disorder and each individual with BPD traits falls somewhere on the spectrum. Some suffer from object permanency issues, others do not. Nearly 10 years after our divorce, my dBPDexw reached out to me. I found out that she never forgot about me. My uBPDexgf (the one I mentioned above) has not forgotten about me, but is happy never hearing from me again, but that happened after I ended things with her for non-BPD related reasons while we were working on reconciling. There was a 3 month separation between when we split and we started talking again trying to salvage things. She was involved with some other guy and I never thought that I'd be in contact with her again when we reconnected. No one can predict how things are going to play out.

[Etuhu]

I mean to forget someone in a month and a half is quite impressive, BPD or not. I must have really been a useless piece of ___.

[Meili]

First, I feel that I must ask why you think that she has forgotten about you? What does that mean to you?

Secondly, it will help you greatly if you take the time to learn about BPD and how it affects those with the disorder. The way that you are describing things, it is entirely possible that she is at Level II of The 3 Levels of Emotions found in Borderline Personality. At Level II, the pwBPD is frustrated with the non and that's when the angry, devaluative, and manipulative features predominate, or the pwBPD can dismiss the fears of loss by denying feelings for the non.

[Etuhu]

I mean she has forgotten the good memories of me and her and doesn't value the uniqueness we had together. Probably forgotten things like my face, body, my laugh and the good things I did for her.

What comes next regarding her feelings then? Not giving a ___ at all ?

Tell me what is best to do and what if she is seeing someone else already arghhh is there a point.

[Etuhu]

Anyone ?

[Meili]

What comes next regarding her feelings then? Not giving a  at all ?

Tell me what is best to do and what if she is seeing someone else already arghhh is there a point.

I know that you are struggling and searching for answers to a lot of questions right now, but I fear that you won't find better or different answers than the ones that you have been given.

What happens next largely depends on you. You can choose to react or you can choose to respond.

To be completely frank with you, does it matter if she is seeing someone else right now? If she is, and you want to start a new relationship with her, then you are just going to have accept that as a fact and move forward from there. My uBPDexgf was seeing someone else when I decided that I wanted her back in my life and I had to learn to make myself the more attractive option. She was involved with people before me, I had to look at things that way. We were no longer together, so she was free to be involved with whomever she chose.

There are no quick fixes here Etuhu. It is going to calm, patient consistency to turn things around. There is a great deal to learn and now is the time to learn it. I was taught to look at the time that I was apart from my x as a gift. She didn't get to see my craziness as I struggled with the emotions and fighting to find the strength to make the necessary changes to go from someone that she could abuse to a stronger, healthier person.

How are you going to use your time?

[Etuhu]

How do I make myself the more attractive option when she walked away from me and dumped all my stuff like i mean nothing?

Surely she had already decided that whoever else she was possibly seeing (or going to) was already a better option than I was.

She hasn't even bothered to message me that shows how much she thinks about me after everything.

[Meili]

If that is what you want it to show you, then that's what you'll see.

[Etuhu]

What do you mean?

[Meili]

Go back and read what I wrote yesterday about other possibilities. Read the link that I provided about the 3 Levels.

No matter what anyone says, as long as you are convinced of and focused on the notion that she chose another over you, you'll be stuck in that mentality.

Even when I asked you what it mattered if she was seeing someone at this moment, why that mattered; you ignored that in favor of worrying about whether or not she is.

I don't mean to come across as harsh, just direct. Do you want to continue worrying about "what if's", or do you want to focus on what you can control?

[Etuhu]

So don't initiate any contact between me and her? I haven't for about a week and she hasn't really seemed bothered, probably happy to get rid of me.

What else do I need to do apart from the obvious ?

[Meili]

For starters, stop focusing on whether or not she's initiated contact. I spent three months with no contact at all with my x before things started to turn around.

If you want to make this thing work, you have to start thinking in big picture terms rather than being myopic and focusing on moment. Only looking at the here-and-now will keep you stressed and anxious. Understanding that this is a long game endeavor frees you from those emotions. That's why I keep stressing "at this moment" to you.

For now, the best things that you can do are focus on yourself, becoming emotionally stronger and healthier, doing things that are interesting, and learning healthier communication and problem-solving measures.

So, what's your plan?

[Etuhu]

I'm gonna have to wait till she reaches out to be although she has made it clear we aren't getting back together why does she still try and provoke a reaction from me ? Changing pictures on whatsapp to see if I message her?

I already know shes probably with someone else: why try and rub that in my face? The picture hasn't got anyone else in it but someone else has taken it and she looks happy. Makes me sick.

[once removed]

Etuhu,

lets say she contacts you tomorrow and she wants to get back together.

would you be prepared? what has changed?

i suspect it would crash and burn immediately.

reread the last five pages Etuhu. youre going in circles here. thats not a judgment, its called ruminating, and a lot of people in your shoes experience it to varying degrees.

but at some point you have to decide if you want to better your situation or if you want to start to grieve and detach. we are here to help you do the former, but its going to help you most if you can start to see the forest through the trees, if we all stop repeating ourselves, and you can get a plan going.

you may be experiencing depression and/or anxiety and its hard to get focused in that condition. have you considered visiting a doctor or a therapist?

[Meili]

I hear ya, Etuhu. I used to have the same issue with my x's facebook page. I learned that what people present on social media is not reality though. It's an illusion, a portrait in time used to project what we want others to see. I learned to put no stock in it at all.

What's more, I learned to use it to my advantage to convey to the world what I wanted them to see and believe was happening in my life. I used it to show the fun, exciting, new, and interesting things that I was doing. It is a great tool when you allow it to be that way.

To do that, however, I had to shift the focus off of her and onto myself. I had to accept things for what they were and decide what I wanted my life to look like and to be. My perception of things had to change.

One of the most valuable things that I've seen people around here do, and what once removed was getting at far more succinctly than I will, is to change their perception about the periods of no contact. They, myself included, stopped looking at it as a miserable, torturous experience and decided that it was a gift. We are free to experience life on our own terms rather than molding ourselves to what believe others may think or feel. We saw it as a chance to work on becoming stronger and healthier without the stress of another's involvement. We used the time to look at our own roles in our relationships and how we contributed to the problems and then began to effectuate the changes necessary to never play a part in that dynamic again.

We all did it. We are no better nor more worthy than you are. You can change your perspective as well. What are you going to decide to do?

[Etuhu]

I do appreciate the advice I am getting here I'm just confused. These people are really hard work.

I have not initiated contaxt but I know she is stalking me from time to time in Whatsapp changing photos which I am trying to not look at, why try and provoke me or hurt me more than she has already why not just delete me she obviously wants me to see these pictures, why? If she doesn't give a crap about me why try provoking me?

[Meili]

Remember my comment about aliens in tin foil hats back on Sept. 8? There are an infinite number of guesses to the answer to your question. It's wasted time and energy to even venture a guess.

If it will help you, I can give you one possible answer that puts you in a positive position: She hasn't let go of you completely yet. Is this true? I have no idea, nor do you. Does it change anything if you decide to think that she is changing the pics to hurt you or that she is trying to send you messages that she is still invested? If so, what changes and why?

[once removed]

youve gone from:

"shes not thinking about me at all - she has completely forgotten me"

to

"she is trying to provoke a reaction in me by changing her profile picture"

can you see how that isnt helping you?

[Etuhu]

I guess so... .maybe it's just me.

I don't know what to think.

She tells me she doesn't want me anymore, I try to initiate contact, she ignores me. I stop initiating contact, she changes her profile picture despite not changing it in 3 years... .

I really just want to smash my head into a brick wall.

[Meili]

Then, let's stop and work with this:

She tells me she doesn't want me anymore, I try to initiate contact, she ignores me. I stop initiating contact, she changes her profile picture despite not changing it in 3 years... .

Why do you think that her changing her profile picture has anything to do with you?  Let's start there.

[Etuhu]

I have no idea, maybe it's not but it seems coincidental that she keeps seeming to go offline when I come online too but I mean, maybe she has changed it for the new guy, I don't know. She hasn't changed the picture in about 3 years and today she did.

I dunno, maybe he took her out somewhere nice today and that is why. *shrug*

My head really is all over the place. If she wanted to hurt me she certainly has, maybe unknowingly, mostly by pretending to (or not) not give a crap about my existence. Or maybe she genuinely has forgotten about me already, who knows. I don't know what to think.

All I know is I am still hurting like it was yesterday and I can't turn anywhere without remembering her.

[once removed]

My head really is all over the place.

All I know is I am still hurting like it was yesterday and I can't turn anywhere without remembering her.

this is completely understandable; thats how it was for me as well. but that is what im trying to tell you is working against you. i hardly expect you to stop hurting or being confused, far from it. im telling you its five times as hard to manage or make decisions or see the bigger picture in that state if you continue as you are.

ill give you an example: in the past, when ive been deep in grief, i wouldnt eat or sleep. it made things much, much worse. id cry endlessly and not necessarily for any reason. i learned to cut that out and treat myself better, to practice mindfulness, to focus my grief, so im a lot stronger and better able to face my grief when it happens.

thats the path we are trying to get you on, Etuhu; youll feel better, youll see things more clearly, youll have focus, youll be more decisive.

to reiterate: have you considered checking in with a doctor or therapist?

[Etuhu]

No but I am going to.

And if I did know she hadn't let me go totally I would like to have another chance with her (providing she hasn't been with anyone else, which I will never know I guess)

I would just like to know for sure that she is seeing somebody else and that will be the final nail in the coffin, I would not want her back after that.

[Meili]

And if I did know she hadn't let me go totally I would like to have another chance with her (providing she hasn't been with anyone else, which I will never know I guess)

I would just like to know for sure that she is seeing somebody else and that will be the final nail in the coffin, I would not want her back after that.

Just so that I'm clear, you are only willing to give the relationship another chance if it is on your terms and certain conditions have been met?

Did she date, or was she intimate with anyone before you ever met her?

[Etuhu]

Yeah obviously she has been in a string of dead end relationships with people she's just walked out on and not looked back.

How do I separate myself from the others? How am I gonna be any more special to make her even gather the energy for her to write a text message? Or anything, to show that I didn't waste all that time on an empty shell that was just going to walk off and be with someone else and forget all about me?

How am I any different to the other guys? I don't think anything they did right or wrong mattered.

I just want to know what my best bet is: if I don't initiate contact, she isnt likely to ever. If I do, I look needy.

I can't seem to win here but I do love her and I miss her A LOT.

[once removed]

we cant know any better than you whether shes seeing someone else. you havent suggested any reason to assume she is, though.

its been about a month and a half, right? the odds that she will see someone else increase with time, thats just the way things go.

it wouldnt be the end of the world (i dont mean it wouldnt hurt you, i mean it wouldnt necessarily change your long term plan, or be a significant threat to you, if she got with someone tomorrow, it might crash and burn pretty quickly) and it wouldnt necessarily stop you from getting back with her. what we are trying to say is that "getting back with her", whether or not she sees someone else, is a long term game plan. we are probably talking about months rather than weeks. a whole lot has to change between now and then.

its not just waiting or not reaching out though that is part of it. you need to get back to the best version of yourself. thats whats going to be attractive to her. that wont happen overnight, nor should it. and as you get to that point, you need to learn more about this disorder, and you need to have a much different game plan going in. working the lessons and tools to the right of the board can really help you with that, and we can help you with any questions you have about them.

right now, reading between the lines, it sounds like you are just waiting until she gets into a relationship to grieve and be done with her. you can do that, its one plan, but its going to leave you feeling like this until it happens.

How do I separate myself from the others?

confidence. strength.

How am I gonna be any more special to make her even gather the energy for her to write a text message?

ill be as specific as i can be here.

shes going to eventually notice that you stopped reaching out. at first, she will probably not think much of it. after emotions thaw, she will notice it. she will wonder why. she will wonder whats going on with you. she might wonder if you are in a relationship. its human nature.

at that point, she may or may not send out a "feeler". it could be direct or indirect. if she doesnt do that, at that point it may be a good idea to "put yourself in front of her" so to speak... .lets cross that bridge when we get there, its a ways off.

I just want to know what my best bet is: if I don't initiate contact, she isnt likely to ever. If I do, I look needy.

this is your best bet. your best bet is not a guarantee. she has left a couple doors open Etuhu, and i dont mean to artificially get your hopes up, but i think its reasonably likely she will reach out in some form, i just dont think its likely to be as soon as you hope for. but its very important that when and if it comes, that you are in a stronger state and prepared for it.