Where to begin...no clear diagnosis for MIL

[OhGeeeez!]

Been researching narcissism due to a recent employment issue and see traits of my motherinlaw, but tonight i ran across borderline personality disorder and think it might hit closer to the mark.

MIL outwardly welcomed me with open arms when we got married 20+ yrs ago.  I thought it was authentic, but thought she was very awkward at showing warmth.  I can be distant myself and was comfortable with a mere declaration of peace.  But was irritated at how often our visits were required and how the focus was on mandatory attendance rather than friendly interactions.  She had an open door policy and was determined to feed anyone who showed up.  It gave the impression of a generous, doting mother keeping her family unit tight.  She has been a full-time volunteer at her church for 30+years (never realized how much this pays off for a narcissist with few talents or charms).  I was a young bride and she offered motherly advice which i immediately resisted.  She was very hurt.  My husband suggested i simply act agreeable to everything "sounds great, i will check with hubby" and he would break the news that we were not going along with those plans.  I'm more direct naturally but tried and it was a way to kerp peace for 19 years.  Then i had a very unplanned child.  Her daughter took me to lunch and assured me that her and my MIL were free to care for the child day and night if needbe so i could continue to work fulltime.  I declined and stayed home to raise him myself.  She showed no emotion when we told the elated family we were expecting.  But later asked if she could be called "Nahnah, because it sounded like Mamma."  my husband heard that with my ears and stopped it immediately.  I always got resistance trying to re-po my kid after she babysat and once, when i nursed him before wisking him away, she said, "God should have given all women breastmilk so we would never have to return them to their mothers."    it was exactly the sort of feeling of envy i had been detecting but denying.  Thought it was just hormones and momma-bear protectiveness in me.  But that statement elevated every concern and i pulled away fast.  I look like the jealous, irrational one.  My husband is very intelligent and reads people like books but is totally in denial about his mother.  Everything she says "she didnt mean the way you took it."  The only one who gets it is my other sisterinlaw and her husband defends his mother thinking his wife is too suspicious and sensitive.  We are always amazed that any bad behavior from her almost always gets "a pass."  These same two brothers spare no effort in correcting our behavior and checking our hands, so why does their mother get a " im sure she was only trying to help."?

When i was expecting, my mother (attempting to bond over the shared experience) asked my motherinlaw how excited she was to become a grandma.  She remarked how long she had waited for this.  My mom said, "yeah i know what you mean"  she replied"you do?"  my mom replied sarcastically but playfully " yes, my daughter is going to have a baby."  my motherinlaw said "oh really?"  no thought that this baby belonged to anyone in the world but her.  It reads as stupidity but it really is a total disregard for anyone beyond herself.

My son is nearly 4 and we never leave him in her care.  But now that she has been through breast cancer my husband is religious about weekly visits at his mothers with our son.  And a very big deal is made if anyone turns down a family dinner invitation... .you are a traitor who must hate her... .even though she is basically out of danger healthwise.  My grandmother is quite up in age and my own mother has dealt with breastcancer and they are not paid any particular attention tho.ugh they live in the same town.  I hate that the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[OhGeeeez!]

Oh... .and she has repeatedly told us that we won't understand until we have grandchildren, but she loves them 10 times more than we do and 10 times more than she ever loved her own children!
The implication being she's 10 times better caretaker?

She will remark about my son's good traits or accomplishments with amazement but has never attributed it to our parenting.  Not that we parent for recognition but... .i don't think she can allow herself to admit he benefits from being in our care.

She will tell me "oh you should see this movie, you would love it!  And i can watch the baby."  "i heard you were sick--can i take the baby so you can rest?"  "you guys haven't gone on vacation in years!--you should get tickets--and i can take the baby!"  these expressions of concern are soo out of character for her and her greedy tone when getting to the point is soo transparent! 

[No-One]

Hi OhGeeeez!:
I'm sorry about your MIL.  It must be very frustrating for you. 

It really doesn't matter what her diagnosis might be.  Focus on managing and enforcing your own boundaries.  Your boundaries will likely need to be different from your husbands.  Perhaps you need to discuss the weekly visits with your husband and a compromise might be for you to go with him to his parent's house every other week.  Your husband could go with your son, on the weeks you don't go.  Occasionally, perhaps your husband goes alone.

Your MIL will likely react to your absence, but it sounds like she will always be reacting to something.  As your son gets older, he will likely fight against the weekly visits as well. 

Boundaries are for your benefit and it is up to you to enforce them.  They aren't necessarily something you announce and others don't necessarily have to agree with them (Typically, the person who is the reason for the boundaries, won't like them).  The links below can provide information on boundaries:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0

You won't change your MIL. She is who she is, and it sound like she has too much control over her sons.  There are a lot of other workshops and articles on communication skills here, but boundaries is a good place to start.  Learning certain communication skills will help you in the long run with your MIL. 

Just being pleasant, not engaging on social media with MIL, sharing very little (keep opinions to yourself) and avoiding any debates or arguments will go a long way.  You will need to learn to NOT let her comments and high opinions of herself bother you.  By ignoring them, you won't give the comments any power.



 

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi OhGeeeez, 

Thank you for sharing your story with us. I can hear your frustrations, and I'm sorry for all the distress you are going through. Those of us here on the C&H board understand very well what it is like to have someone with BPD in our lives. What have you read so far that has helped you to understand more about BPD?

Here is an article that I thought might be helpful to you that explains some of the behavior you may be seeing:

What does it mean,  push/pull?

I imagine there are many things at play here in this situation. Have you ever thought of going to see a T to help you and listen to you? If your DH and his brother are more the golden children, then they may not be able to see the behaviors of their mom as anything other than normal. For a spouse this can be very frustrating. Trust your instincts. You have them for a reason.

 
Wools

[OhGeeeez!]

You all have definitely said little gems here!  Thank you!  I did see a therapist but she was a grandma and defended her behaviors.

[Struggles]

Hi OhGeeeez,

Welcome to the board.  I’m so sorry you are going through this with your MIL.  I can completely relate.  My MIL is also uBPD. 

We (my husbands family and myself) Have always played the go along to get along game.  She raged and acted out and go back to normal without any apology or recognition of what happened.  Recently we all have stopped doing that in some form or another.  My husband and I went NC after lots of lines were crossed in major ways, my husbands brother and wife are a medium chill stance with her, and my FIL is just fed up and doesn’t know how to handle it.  But we are all enforcing boundaries in some way or another. 

I def agree with No-one on the boundaries.  You def need to set them, but sit down and have a conversation with your husband on what you are both comfortable with.  I also agree with no-one that your boundaries might not coincide with what your husband is comfortable with.  I think it’s important that you both respect what each other is comfortable with and hear each other out. 

Sounds like your sister in law understands what you are feeling.  I am extremely close with my sister in law (married to hubbys brother), and she understands completely what I am going through.  I am so blessed to have her, not just because she can be my ear in my frustrations with MIL but for so many other reasons as well.  So it is so good that your sister in law gets it, and can be there for you and see things for how they are. 

When we have been through trying times with my MIL a lot of times it can tend to be the only thing my husband and I would talk about.  We quickly realized that.  So now, if we have something new that happened with her we quickly discuss it, and then move onto happier conversations like how our day was or what our weekend plans are. 

Also, I hate to hear your T defended your MILs actions.  I def would suggest seeing another T.  Maybe one that specializes in BPD. 

I’m so glad you joined the board.  This has been such a wonderful place for me, it is therapeutic to write down feelings in a place where people are going through the same things.  And lots of great things to learn as well.  Hope you keep us posted.  Sending you hopes of peace and a wonderful New Year!

[OhGeeeez!]

Things have been on cruise control since her ordeal with cancer took her out of the babysitting game.  She is nearly back to full strength and is hyperactive 74 year old.  My husband has been fine taking our son for a visit one night a week when i am at work for several months.  The past 2 weeks he has been accepting invitations to dinner there on my behalf and hinting that "mom is going to think you don't like her" and this week she suddenly made 2 phone calls to me asking to stop by to see her grandson (never refers to him as my son).  I had perfectly legit reasons for denying the visits and was light and friendly about it.  The 1st call she was cool about it.  but the 2nd call she was very short and snippy.  Definitely wants to visit on her terms.  Last night hubby wouldnt be back in time for me to go to work and suggested i leave baby with her.  I suggested another plan and he seemed fine with my decision.  Tonight he called with the same problem but ordered me to take baby to his mother at a specific time as if he had arranged it.  I suggested calling my sister who has been wanting to see him.  He got mad said what is wrong with leaving him with my mother?  He said then just dont go to work until i get home! Obviously i am in for a fight.  But it stinks because i feel us both victims of triangulation

[OhGeeeez!]

During a huge fight... .My husband actually admitted his mom may have a personality disorder.  He just thinks it is more reason to let her have her way.  He agreed her reactions to nearly everything are "off" or inappropriate to situation, her need for company insatiable even when indulged, she answers "yeah-no" non-commital when she is put on the spot, very low self esteem, likes to be at the center of all, lack of empathy, rapid-fire 20 questions that are devoid of care for the subject.  He is totally against limiting contact, but i think he now sees the need for with-holding information.  He has been operating under the belief that he caters to her of his own free will, but last night i think he caught glimpses of evidence of manipulation.

[cClearly]

You all have definitely said little gems here!  Thank you!  I did see a therapist but she was a grandma and defended her behaviors.

When I started looking for a counselor for myself, my  husband and for us as a couple (we have separate counselors for all), I interviewed them.  I asked about experience with enmeshment, codependency, their thoughts around it.  I found counselors that are experienced and know what to do.  I would take the time to do a deep search for an experienced counselor and go back.  It will be worth it.  It has paid off for my marriage (which was headed for divorce) and has deeply helped my former GC husband.

[strength_love]

Maybe your husband and others don't believe you about your MIL, but I do. My husband and I have no children, but his brother has a 4 year old son. My uNPD dOCD MIL is so obsessed with him that sometimes I get visions in my mind of a devouring beast. It's frankly creepy the way she behaves around him and the way she talks about him. I grew up in a huge family and I've seen the way grandmothers dote on their grandkids, but this is different. This is not normal behaviour.

It takes a real toll on my husband to see his mother interacting with his nephew, because it brings back a lot of painful memories of growing up with a smothering narcissistic mother. His mother was a stay-at-home mom and his brother wasn't born until he was 6 years old, so he spent his youngest years as an only child, captive to her obsessive, smothering, high-pressure behaviour. It's so hard for him that we sometimes avoid being around his parents when the grandkid is around.

We both feel stressed out about the idea of the child being in the care of the MIL but my BIL and SIL are having personal issues and leave their son with her for days on end. I worry about the long-term impact on the child. He's already showing signs of social anxiety at 4 years old. He is so shy that he hides whenever someone new enters the room and will only speak with his parents and grandparents, and when he does he usually leans in and whispers in their ear.

Your instincts are to be trusted. I encourage you to continue to protect your child. I agree with what others here have said - it's a good idea to keep up your search for a therapist you can trust. It will make all the difference in the world.

Your husband might be going through denial and may go through a really rough patch if/when he starts to come to terms with his mother's behaviour and how it affects him and his family. It is a good idea to build on your support system now, while you're somewhat at leisure to do so. It sounds like your SIL is a great support too, which is nice.