Looking for a barometer for soon to be ex's BPD/NPD

[Razzie1234]

This is my first post here and I found this community through the book Splitting.  I am going through a high conflict divorce and a custody battle, from what I would view as, a man with a severe case of NPD/BPD.  Actually he was diagnosed as such by a psychiatrist three years ago but refuses to accept this citing that he is "smarter than that quack". It has been hell for me and my two children and is still going on despite the fact that I kicked him out of our home Labor Day weekend of 2016.  My children are constantly being manipulated and "used" to get back at me.  Let's be clear, I kicked him out because his selfish choices had put my kids in danger.  It was the last straw and honestly, I was just tired of the abuse I had endured for sixteen years.  It was no surprise I caught him cheating AGAIN the day he walked out the door.  I could spend hours listing all the inappropriate behaviors and stress he inflicted on me, our children, his own family and all others around us over the years but at this point it is all water under the bridge.  I am looking for personal freedom and trying to move on but the process of trying to divorce someone with this condition has made it a difficult task to achieve.

The divorce has been extraneous due to the blatant disregard for the rules on his part.  I am drained emotionally and financially.  We are about to enter the third window (the first one was August 5th of 2017,-not called, the second was the end of November 2017-not called and now we are up for February 5th 2018).  I have not received child support payments for the last three months, and he is currently unemployed (got fired from another job, he is a professional in the corporate world but this would be his third job in the last four years, in early September).  Through his live in girlfriend's Instagram it is clear they are living life high on the hog, dozens of Christmas presents for our kids and hers, elaborate dinners, movies etc. yet still no child support.  Don't ask me about what he took from our martial savings and spent after our separation, what I will have to pay him out of my 401k and personal assets (I am and always have been the bread winner) because it will just make me feel like someone punched me in the stomach.  He has had four separate motions of contempt filed against him for non-compliance of the current standing order, as recently as last week.  I am trying to settle out of court, as there should be no reason to go at this point but he is refusing to accept.  At this juncture I am looking for others who may be in, or have been in a similar situation and what their outcome was? Is there any hope I can get him to see the reality of his situation because I am so tired of living every day like I am on a drama filled reality show on Bravo.

[livednlearned]

Hi Razzle1234,

Welcome and hello! I'm sorry for what brings you here and glad you found the site.

I had to read your post twice and make sure it wasn't me writing it 

What kind of custody agreement do you have in place, and what are your goals? Meaning, what will things look like when you get through this last window?

Do you feel good about your lawyer?

There is an article on this site about how long it takes people to recover emotionally, psychologically, and financially from a high-conflict divorce. If I remember correctly, the span was 4-8 years. I left my n/BPD ex (former trial attorney) 7 years ago and things started to normalize at about the 3-4 year mark. By  normalize, I mean divorced and no more time in court over custody issues.

My ex was particularly high-conflict and even had a judge-ordered gatekeeping motion to stop him from filing frivolous motions and what not. Whatevs. From about 2010 to 2015 I refer to as The Lost Years.

The best part is that I ended up with full custody of my son. His dad lost visitation.

I don't think you can get your ex to see the reality of his situation. He's mentally ill and his defenses are probably on tilt, with everything that goes with that.

That means looking at the reality of your situation, and creating a strategy where you lose less, since winning isn't exactly how I would describe anything in our divorces.

Also, start doing things for yourself. You might even need to put yourself ahead of your kids, temporarily at least. Just until you get through this. It's amazing how things can feel more manageable when we take care of ourselves. It took me a long time to realize that.

I started by forwarding my ex's emails to a friend, who would read them and let me know if there was anything I needed to know. Turns out I didn't need to know a lot    Little things like that can start to make you feel incrementally better until your strength returns to full force and then some.

[ForeverDad]

I was in court from 2005 to 2013.  Son was ages 3 to 11 during that time.  It took over two years with her as temp custodial parent and temp majority time parent before the divorce was final and we walked out with equal time joint Shared Parenting.  She made repeated allegations of child abuse during and even after the divorce.  Each time I went back to court seemed to take about 17 months going through the steps.  First time I was named Custodial Parent in early 2011.  Second time I got majority time at the end of 2013.  Finally her entitlement balloon got deflated, perhaps too son was older.  Since our conflict (increasingly frequent rants and rages, apology demands and me being unable to reason with her) was growing before we separated, I call those years the Lost Decade.  But once the worst of it is past, time and distance does let us recover our lives and selves.

The kids will need counselors to provide additional support and insight.  Courts love counseling.  Be sure he doesn't pick the counselors, he would choose ineffective, inexperienced or gullible ones.  One way to limit his choices are for you to have a short list of counselors with solid reputations and accept your insurance, then he can pick from among those most excellent counselors.  Courts like that approach, both parents are involved but you've ensured they are all good counselors.

I have not received child support payments for the last three months, and he is currently unemployed (got fired from another job... .his third job in the last four years).  Through his live in girlfriend's Instagram it is clear they are living life high on the hog, dozens of Christmas presents for our kids and hers, elaborate dinners, movies etc. yet still no child support.

Child support is usually one thing courts and their collection agencies get right, well, unless you're the reasonable parent paying to the unreasonable parent.  I'm not sure what can be done about him squandering the marital assets.  As L&L wrote, it may be a case of losing less rather than winning.  Even if the court moves slowly or is even inclined to let it go, you can always maintain your stance that his noncompliance is detrimental to the children.  Beware that you don't ever say, "Yeah I don't need his money, I just want him to go away" or something like that.  He's the father, he should help support.  Besides, one common stance for courts is to separate the financial support issues from the parenting schedule issues.  They're unlikely to say he can't see the kids until he pays up.  Let his consequences happen, even if his face gets added to the post office wall.

Don't ask me about what he took from our martial savings and spent after our separation, what I will have to pay him out of my 401k and personal assets (I am and always have been the bread winner) because it will just make me feel like someone punched me in the stomach.

That is a lament most of us make, acting-out disordered people are typically expert liars and manipulators.  There's a fine article on www.DrJoeCarver.com that is entitled, Personality Disorders: The Controllers, Abusers, Manipulators and Users in Relationships. Another of his articles describes Losers.  Losers, Users or Abusers, they're all bad news.  Often they know just how far they can go before something becomes 'actionable'.  Also, during a divorce courts expect the parents to be a bit emotionally triggered and so often the disorder is ignored or explained away as "the conflict will go away after the divorce is final".  Um, not when an acting-out PD is involved.

Many members who are mothers report that once the divorce is done, the disordered fathers may be more likely to drift away.  Some fathers don't even step up to get all their parenting visits or return the kids early.  It's hard to say why they fought so hard for the kids, some seem to fight so they pay less support, others seem to want to appear a good father, AKA public image.

Frankly, I noticed that my child support wasn't much affected by the ratio of parenting time.  My temp order's alternate weekend schedule had me paying substantial child support since I was the main income earner.  About 5 years later, when her alimony ran out and we had equal time, the calcs were actually higher for me.  What I'm saying is that if he's fighting to avoid child support his scheduled time may not impact that much what he would owe.

He has had four separate motions of contempt filed against him for non-compliance of the current standing order, as recently as last week.  I am trying to settle out of court, as there should be no reason to go at this point but he is refusing to accept.

Sadly, during a divorce court often views Contempts like parking tickets.  Eventually court sits up and takes notice but until then... .  My lawyer explained to me that the Contempts that really make a difference are the ones post-divorce.  As I mentioned above, court expects some emotional conflict after the separation but also expects it to end after the divorce.  However, his strategy was to let the mid-divorce Contempts accumulate with a decision delayed to the divorce trial.  Why?  Once a Contempt is adjudicated, then it is considered resolved and will have no impact later if there is a divorce trial rather than a settlement.  My ex delayed settlement during our two year divorce until minutes before the scheduled Trial Day.  Until then she had a favorable temp order that fed her sense of entitlement and control but her lawyer told her she'd lose.  Hence the last minute settlement.

While a surprisingly large number of our divorces do end with a settlement, it is usually only just before a major hearing or trial before the disordered spouse can't con, cajole or fool the professionals any more.  That's why many attempts to settle or mediate fail in the early stages of a divorce.  They're not boxed into a corner yet.  Some spouses never settle.  We can't say what your stbEx (soon to be ex) will or will not do, but those are the typical outcomes.  You and the kids will get through it but meanwhile batten down the hatches and make it through the storms.

[Razzie1234]

@livednlearned-Sorry for the delayed response I have been on vacation with my boys. 

Currently we have joint physical custody but I am the primary and the tie breaker in all areas.  The first parenting plan put in place at mediation number one required supervised visitation for him (he chose his mother as the supervisor without her knowledge) every other weekend from Friday at 7p to Sunday at 7p. It took nine hours despite the pictures and evidence I had all which were beyond damaging to him.  Just proof of reality and a clear picture of who he is.

All time he had with the kids would be at his parents home (two hours away) and any and all activities needed to be chaperoned by her.  Of course he ignored these rules and she let him because she is afraid of him.  Unfortunately his entire family is full of enablers and they have never been able to stand up to him in any way shape or form.  They were originally in support of me and stated so, claiming his behavior was not acceptable, they would not accept his paramour and that I would never be replaced.  They were taking the "high road" on this for once.  Blah, blah, blah.  Neither my mother in law or sister and brother in law have spoken to me in over a year and a half.  Clearly my ex is still in charge. 

The agreement required a court ordered drug and alcohol eval, set the child support and split of out of pocket medical costs etc.  At this time he was still employed but I was making double his income and had been the primary bread winner for our entire lives together.  He took the drug and alcohol eval without our consent, prior approval was something we specifically asked for in the docs, and passed with flying colors because it was self reported. The ENTIRE thing, I mean everything he said in there was a lie.  He was even as bold as to say he has no history of drug or alcohol abuse in his family.  His sister is a recovered alcoholic and we were both part of her intervention.  She has a brick at her recovery center bought in our names for helping her get sober.

Prior to hearing number one we sent a revised plan which gave him an additional night (visitation now Thursday 7p to Sunday 7p) and I allowed the supervised visitation to be changed to him having the kids on his own as long as he had his own residence.  He had been living with his paramour since the day I kicked him out and she only had a two bedroom apartment where she lived with her 13 yr old and two pit bulls.  Not enough space for two more children.  Not to mention, per the agreement, the kids were not supposed to spend the night with any non-relative member of the opposite sex.  Another rule he completely ignored.  He accepted this and signed it.  Parenting plan number TWO agreed to and signed by him.  Of course he waited until 11pm the night before we were supposed to be in court.

Like all NPD BPD, this was not enough.  Now he wants 50/50 custody and not to pay child support.  He thinks because I have money and make a good living and am capable of supporting my family comfortably that I don't deserve his support.  As I mentioned he is unemployed again and I have been at my current job for 13 years.  This makes him feel threatened and his way to punish me for it is to not pay me.

I am lukewarm on my lawyer because it seems like I have been doing all the heavy lifting in terms of gathering evidence etc.  Again, no barometer here and I am not sure what the parameters and expectations should be for a divorce lawyer.  I feel he really shafted me at the financial mediation and as a result the amount of money I have to hand over to my ex is staggering.  He is not aggressive but he is very experienced.  He knows the judge well and knows how we need to approach this if we get to court.  I will say I feel completely jilted by the legal system.  I should have more recourse in terms of what is fair but it just doesn't work that way.  Despite the fact that all my intentions have the best interests of my children at hand, not my own.

In light of the current repo pending on my ex's new car, his unemployed status and now that the holidays are over he will be facing the reality of where his life is.  I know him and this will not bode well.  He will escalate the drinking and drugs to self medicate and avoid reality.  I am so glad I am not the one having to deal with that this time around!  I am putting a final offer out to him which in essence will have no changes to the current agreement in hopes he will be desperate enough to take it and keep us out of court.  Timing is everything with him.

I am trying to get this done so I can look towards my personal freedom even if it is 4-5 years from now.

[Razzie1234]

@foreverdad

Thank you so much for the information.  It makes me happy to hear that the two things you have cited in your response are in my favor currently. 

I have had my kids in therapy from the onset.  They have been mentally damaged by my ex and his behaviors along the way and continue to be on a daily basis.  My older son has been in therapy since he was young.  During our first separation six years ago, my son got in trouble at school for an emotional outburst. My ex decided to make him sit in a chair facing the corner in his apartment and left him there for eight hours.  Feeding him bread and water for dinner. He was four years old at that point. He has been quoted as saying "children are like animals and they need to be trained like them."  "We don't change our schedules to accommodate them, they need to confirm to what we need."  Despite things like this he claims he is the best dad ever and that I was never grateful for that.  Stating "There are so many dads out there that are not involved with their kids."  Getting drunk every night staying up until 4am and sleeping until 5p on the weekends does not make you a good or involved dad. 

My boys are 6 and 10 and very easily manipulated, especially when there is a master at work. The kids are insured under me and my plan is excellent.  All he had to do was pay his part of the out of pocket costs which were/are co-pays only.  I have never received a dime from him for this despite multiple requests.  His response was he would decide what he felt was necessary and then HE would determine if he felt like he needed to pay.
 Meanwhile when his paramours son broke his tooth out he had no issue paying $600 to get it fixed.  I have emails from my ex stating he didn't think the kids needed any help and that they were doing fine with the divorce.  Mind you my 6 yr old is in a BIP (behavioral intervention program) and has been there since pre-k.

One thing to note was the incident or "straw" for me that caused me to throw him out goes as follows:  I was working one evening, I am in sales and I had a client dinner.  He harassed me at that dinner via text and called repeatedly to come home so he could go to the gym to work out.  When I advised I would not be home in time, and despite the fact that we live in a 6,000 square home (plenty of room to find space work out indoors), he decided to go to the gym anyway.  He called my neighbors (9:45p at night-they have small children) and gave them a walkie talkie.  The other he gave to my 8 yr old (who had been asleep for two hours at this point) and left him in charge of his 4 yr old brother.  My boys have rooms connected with a jack and jill bathroom and he locked them in and left.  The gym is a fifteen minute drive away from our home.  I walked in at 11pm to my younger son screaming bloody murder.  He had pooped and peed in his pants because he was locked out of his bathroom and locked in his room.  I was sick to my stomach over this situation.  I got him cleaned up and put back to bed.  At 11:15pm my ex walked in and I must have had a look on my face because as I came downstairs he looked at me and said "What, you are gonna be a B^%$# to me now?".  I said "No, I am just not going to be married to you anymore."  He made a completely sober and conscious decision to leave tow small children unattended to go work out.  I have a deposition and signed notarized document from my neighbors regarding the incident so if he claims I am lying I can enter it into evidence.

My ex is delusional and a text book case of BPD/NPD. I am hoping the judge will hear these stories and realize that he is not responsible enough to have the kids half the time.

[livednlearned]

I am lukewarm on my lawyer because it seems like I have been doing all the heavy lifting in terms of gathering evidence etc.  

Again, no barometer here and I am not sure what the parameters and expectations should be for a divorce lawyer.  I feel he really shafted me at the financial mediation and as a result the amount of money I have to hand over to my ex is staggering.  He is not aggressive but he is very experienced.  He knows the judge well and knows how we need to approach this if we get to court.  I will say I feel completely jilted by the legal system.  I should have more recourse in terms of what is fair but it just doesn't work that way.  :)espite the fact that all my intentions have the best interests of my children at hand, not my own.

You are going through that part of the process where you have power, but it may not feel like it because you have two seemingly opposite goals, and your L can only work on one of those goals at a time. One goal is to get the best for your kids, and the second goal is to stay out of court. Unfortunately, in our cases, many of us end up in court at some point. If it is not now, it might be later when you need to enforce or modify something he chooses to ignore. Sometimes, going to court works in our favor because the judge is considered the "supreme witness." So anything he or she witnesses carries more weight than what happens in mediation.

As an aside, lawyers pride themselves on being able to keep clients out of court. If you live in a county with an overflowing docket, which many of us do, then judges also want to keep you out of court. Maybe you live somewhere with court-mandated mediation, in which case, you have to show some good faith measure to try and settle our of court.

It's also possible in some family law courts to settle on almost everything, but leave one or two things outstanding, to be decided at a later date in court. And then you sit on that thing and raise it for court when you have enough evidence or see a pressing need to change it. For me, that was getting sole legal custody. For you, it might be getting supervised visitation back.

I am putting a final offer out to him which in essence will have no changes to the current agreement in hopes he will be desperate enough to take it and keep us out of court.  Timing is everything with him.

You know him best and it sounds like you are using this information wisely. Going to court is expensive and it's awful, and no one wants it. But the judge is kind of the "super parent" in our situations (quoting Childress). If you go into court with a problem-solving mindset, as though you are an adult peer to the judge, at least in terms of maturity and your ability to focus on what is best for the kids, and have documentation to back up your story, things can move in the right direction.

Sadly, our ex's tend to remain difficult. The chances that any of us end up in court are pretty high, unfortunately. If not right away, then later.

I say that not to be a debbie downer, only to normalize things a bit because depending on how disordered and sick your ex is, you may end up in court and that may not be the worse thing, at least in terms of furthering your cause.

I am trying to get this done so I can look towards my personal freedom even if it is 4-5 years from now.

Five years is probably about right, although it will get easier sooner, even if it doesn't become completely easy.

Make sure you take care of yourself