Is all of this all really happening

[Teno]

I'm the second sun in law that got driven out of my wives family. The brother in law put his foot down and almost got divorced. He did say some terrible things to his wife and that got them into counselling. They are now well aware of the damage done. He hates the MIL still. His wife openly admits her mothers faults and admits how she sided with her mother against her husband. The MIL does not influence their children and family much now. MIL kept at arms length and wife puts her family first.

The MIL's husband is a nothing in one part of the family and some grandchildren treats him badly and somehow he still backs her. From my observations I can see how see turned her daughters against him. The first time I took her to the airport she discredited her husband and said how she'll never forget him for loosing the business. Now i know that is a lie. He can't do anything right, can't hang out with the grand kids. But then she's happy to use his health issues to play the victim.

My wife is well aware of all that happened but seems to be in denial still although she claims she understands and that I'm the one not wanting to move forward and forgive. Every time we in contact she bites at me or undermines me, spoil the kids and make them her priority(My gut just says, NO) It was enough to make my wife cry once how the MIL prioritized the kids over her. Even my sister had to unfriend her from FB last year from the verbal attacks.("I'm so over you", "get a life" type of message).

Things has improved and we don't have much contact. I'm still at disagreement on how she manipulate our kids and how she uses gifts to draw our kids in. I'm sure we said no more random gifts all the time, but she kept on sending. My wife can't remember that we said that. I suggested we should go see someone about these issues but it just got left there. My wife's idea is that we should use the problem with her mom as a starting point at counselling to improve our relationship. I could not take that further and left it there. Now it is 6 months later. That just gave me the feeling that nothing has changed.

Unfortunately i can see or suspect the BPD trades in my wife. It is very confusing. I get this love and affection to a point and I feel bad for even suspecting that, but then I'm getting met with so much impatience, undermining with the kids, little lies, some how it feels like I'm just meeting her needs.

Anyway I just starting to see a therapist and trying to figure out how I'm allowing this to happen. I'm just a bit concerned, how do you know if your therapist understands. I've been met before with, maybe you're too sensitive or it is easy to see the only the negative side and miss the good answer.

[Panda39]

Hi Teno,

Welcome to to the BPD Family 

It sounds like you just like your Brother in Law (BIL) are trying to set boundaries around your MIL's behaviors but your wife is having a hard time doing that.

You and your BIL were most likely raised in a different way than your wife and her sister... .you and your BIL come into your wives family with a different perspective.  They have been raised in the dysfunctional behaviors of their mom and have probably been taught to comply with their mother's wishes. (Basically do what she wants to get along with her) Your wife and her sister have probably been living in what we call FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) in other words their mother uses emotional blackmail to get them to do what she wants.

Below is a link to more on FOG... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

I'm on these boards because my significant other (SO) has an undiagnosed BPD ex-wife (uBPDxw) and I see how their daughters struggle with the pressure that their mom puts on them.

One simple example of something dysfunctional they were taught by their mom using FOG is... .they must answer the phone whenever it rings, it is "rude" to not answer the phone.  You and I know this is totally false but their mother uses this to have 24/7 access to her daughters.  It doesn't matter if it's during dinner, or the girls are out with friends or if it's 12:30 at night they were taught they better answer the phone or there is hell to pay, or their mother's love is withheld, or they are made to feel guilty.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is while you work on this try to be understanding of your wife, she is being squeezed between her love for you and her love for her mom.  She loves you both even if her mom has mental health issues.

I think it's great that you are working with a therapist it will really help to have someone outside of the situation... .a professional... .to talk to and work things through with.  You have support here too we all "get it" 

Below are some book suggestions the first two are about BPD in general and the last one is about BPD Mothers specifically.  I suggest reading one of the first to books before reading the Borderline Mother book, it's a good idea to get a good grounding in what BPD is and what it looks like behind the scenes (behind the chaos).

Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder by Paul Mason, Randi Kreger
 
Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder: A Family Guide for Healing and Change by Valerie Porr M. A.

Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationshipby Christine Ann Lawson
 
Take Care,
Panda39

[Teno]

Thank you for your reply and the info. I'll do some reading and try to get a better understanding. I've so many little things that I don't understand.

Maybe this should be a separate post. Little things like this happen. Just some insight would be appreciated.

What just happened? How concerned should I be? Did I just became the bad cop parent?  Wife and daughter 7 is about to go out shopping and the kids want to buy more dolls from the second hand shop. Wife says no, we have enough dolls.(wonderful) As Wife and daughter leaves to go shopping. My 6 year old daughter comes to me and says Sister is going to buy her a doll. My answer: I thought your mom said no. She runs out to Sister and wife to confirm(that they still buying the dolls) before they drive away and I followed her. Wife then denies that she changed her mind. No, I did not say they could have them and some line of diversion when the lie got exposed. Then  7 yo daughter also says: mom you did say we can buy the dolls and then Sister also said it again. It was such a blatant lie, I then just asked wife: are you sure you want to buy them we already have a lot of dolls? I did show a face of disapproval and shock about the event and got a little shrug from wife. I left it there and went back inside.

Later they came back and wife said. They bought these dolls, but they will replace them with some old dolls. Now it became just totally weird. Oldest daughter bursts into tears, sorry dad I know you said I should not buy them! I tolled her I never said no! Somehow she thought I said no when I said to wife: are you sure you want to buy them we already have a lot of dolls?. Then I just said I understand why you feel like that, you did nothing wrong and it is not your fault.

Wife and I did have a bit of conversation about it, she said daughter was so worried at the shop thinking that I said no. I just added, wife you probably should not have changed you mind about the dolls and the conversation ended there.

Is this a normal event of parenting or am I missing the point here?

Wife is very inconsistent and mostly gives into the kid. She's allowed to correct my parenting and not the
 other way around. Yes, even in front of the kids. I can go deeper into this but I just want to make sense of this event.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Teno,   

It sounds like things are rough and very confusing right now for you, and I'm sorry. I would be quite confused too! I'm really glad that you are sharing more about what is going on in your family. It helps to find others who are not only understanding, but who know what you are going through.

My mom was an uBPD. I can say that I understand the tendency your wife and SIL have had to treat you and your BIL unkindly because my mom would do that too. She would ooze out such toxic negative words and behaviors towards my dad or any male. Because of the extreme need to 'have to agree and align with' my mom, and my inability to know and be myself, it was necessary for survival (when around my mom) to agree with her and be like her. I learned this from early childhood on up. I'm guessing that your W and SIL don't really know who they are either, down deep inside, because children of a pwBPD frequently do not have a true sense of self. None of this is to excuse the behavior, but merely to explain what could be happening. I would feel terribly guilty (FOG) as soon as I was away from my mom and ask myself why in the world I would treat my H that way when it wasn't how I really felt. My uBPDm caused me to think it WAS how I felt and what she said was my truth.

Since I've been in T, I can truly see how destructive this behavior is and was, and now I know it was a false belief my mom projected onto me.

Does this make any sense? I'm very glad that you are in T. If you find a T who understands BPD, then hopefully you will find someone who validates you and listens to what you have to say. How soon is your appointment?

 
Wools

[Teno]

Hi Teno,
Does this make any sense? I'm very glad that you are in T. If you find a T who understands BPD, then hopefully you will find someone who validates you and listens to what you have to say. How soon is your appointment?

I've been 3 times, in the last session I did mention PD and T said he does not want to give me permission in a sense or be the judge to say my W has a PD. We agreed PD does not change how I would approach the situation. We did establish that my W is more autonomous compared to me. I should believe more in myself. He was happy to point out that W's relationship bank account is empty. So the suggestion is to make her aware of the withdrawal especially when my input gets devalued.  My MIL  has obvious mental health issues.

Yes it does make sense as i grew up with a uBPDf. He is a good guy, but then that FOG. I can see a lot of those characteristics in my W.(I'm still struggling to say she's uBPDw). As a child I was well aware and I now realized my coping mechanism was anger/frustration or to go somewhere else.

I threw myself into the deep end 9 years ago. Met a girl, got pregnant very quickly, moved country, sold my business, lost my support group and became a stay at home dad and ran a business from home looking after two kids in a new country. I never realised how isolated I allowed myself to become.

That is where the biggest attack started. It took me a while to get a work Visa and W was the biggest earner and had to work. This is where the MIL and W devalued all my efforts to earn money and look after the kids. The MIL devalued everything we did, she openly said my business won't work and we need them to help them look after our kids by moving closer to them. I started kicking my heals in.

One of our first visits to their home town the W's BIL(He lasted 2 years there) said: Better watch these sisters!  little did I know! It took the W's BIL and I about  3 years to start talking and share.

We both realised that MIL spread lies about how we treated/disciplined our kids. MIL would huff, storm out when we the BIL, BIL-wife and I disciplined the kids.

I suppose this is where I had/have a lot of FOG and totally unaware. I just had to suck it up, W was under total MIL spell. I felt guilty for my wife missing out on the kids, serious fear of loosing my family if I stood up to MIL and W. I paid with silent treatment for weeks, Resentment, there was trouble when I visited the dads group and we had too much fun. My ability to look after the kids got devalued. I did have a talk with the MIL at the time, but nothing changed.

When I look back at that time, visiting W at work, we fed both kids exclusively on breast milk for their first 6 months. Taking the kids out on work jobs. Shopping, I would struggle to better that. Somehow the W and I pulled through this stage. Our first 4-5 years together

I only got my W more on my side in the last 3 years. It helped moving further away. The MIL's ridicules behavior lately helped so that we've less contact. It just takes a big emotional toll, I've to be on my guard all the time how i interact with W, lately I've been getting better at not getting sucked into the conflict and I never know when the MIL creeps in.

[Panda39]

The doll story made me think that your wife has a hard time enforcing boundaries.  I'm not so sure she "wanted" to buy the dolls, it sounded to me like she caved in to the pressure from your daughters.

Because your wife has a BPDmom boundaries might be hard for her.  People with BPD can often be excellent boundary busters (again FOG can come into play) so your wife has probably struggled with setting and enforcing boundaries.  Because of her mom she has probably learned that it is easier to give in.  So she gave in and let the girls buy the dolls. 


Panda39

[Teno]

Because of her mom she has probably learned that it is easier to give in.  So she gave in and let the girls buy the dolls.

Because of her mom she has probably learned that it is easier to give in.  So she gave in and let the girls buy the dolls.

Yes, that could be a reason, I still can't get my head around how her mom did this and how it fits in. I can see a similar pattern, when she gets inundated with work and stress, she just wants to give in or finds it overwhelming. I find this distressing, I want to help, but I can't actually help, then it gets vented on me.

"Printer does not work, I help to sort it out, she's rude and my face says I'm not happy about that and the door gets slammed in my face" I did address this event in a calm way, but I think the printer got blamed for the behavior. I think I've got better at not stepping straight into it anymore, quick pointer and then I change the subject.

I'd another of the many event: My wife was asking the kids to clean up and they were taking their time. I made a slight joke to my youngest: "Better clean up or your or you going to get it from your mom" I did say it in a encouraging way and not my intention to undermine my wife. She storms out of the kitchen and calls the two kids and I annoying. It is a bit of blur here, I think we were made to apologies. I was in shock and complied and help the kids to clean. Maybe I did undermine her, but why that reaction?

Next day the kids won't listen to me and took their time getting ready for school and I put them in the naughty corner. My Wife goes around and tickles the kids and makes a joke about it. I just said you can't do that. I think she thought it was Ok to do that. I said the kids were super naughty and her reply was. No they not super naughty. I was just thinking, this is so uncool. I did not react and finished getting the lunches ready.

Funny this is very similar what the MIL did to BIL and I. Stormed out when we the SunILs disciplined the kids. I've booked us into a Patenting course where they specifically address undermining and the importance of parents having a united front. For some reason my W is reluctant to go.

I've to be so careful how I discipline my kids as not to become the bad cop parent. I grew up with a uBPDd and are aware how those little snaps hurts. Sometimes I think my wife acts just like my D. It is almost like my youngest is the being made my W's extension. I've started countering that, by saying they look similar and not identical. The oldest that is similar to me are getting more jabs. I started giving her support on that. She came to me and said, thanks for backing me.

It is like a cat and mouse game. I don't want to undermine their Mother and my W, but I can't let it go unchallenged. Patricia Evens said, Don't devalue the abuser, but the problem. That is my approach and I'm still learning. I can do my best to show how guys should act, but who's going to show how to treat a partner.

My dad also had a very specific way how i should get dressed when I was young. I'd a more than a few rebellious moments about that, but also way to sensible for my age. Funny that I'm still my dads favourite.

I suppose the question is, what am I bringing to the party?