15 years of marriage about to end

[Slim70]

Hi BPD Family

I have been married to my beautiful wife for 15 years as of next week and we have 2 wonderful children together.
We have had our ups and downs over this time and I have constantly told myself that every relationship has these although anytime I tried to talk to anyone about it they don't seem to believe what I am saying, and I did not even tell them the bad parts.

My father fortunately bought me the SWOE book and wookbook recently and suggested that it may assist me in trying to decipher the extraordinary behaviors and immense mood swings that would occur on a regular basis and that has lead me here.

I have never shared the full extent of my wife's behaviors as I, and she, have blamed myself for many years as the reason for her intense unhappiness as well as blaming me for the affairs that she had. I am sharing some of the situation below but am not looking for sympathy, but maybe someone else who has had similar experiences that can read this without judgment or disapproval that can offer real life suggestions with compassion and understanding.

I have always forgiven and moved on only to be blindsided by yet another outburst of what I can only describe as emotional blackmail and emotional attacks like a raging 'storm' that seem to me to be totally irrational and illogical. If I even attempt to clarify a point or question anything at all it becomes even worse and I get shut-down with a statement such as 'You are only ever looking to defend yourself'.

Over the years I have often been able to detect these emotional storms brewing in advance, usually if an event where we are going to go and visit my family, or if I have an event on where I try to catch up with friends (something I have not done now for many years). The emotional storm grows as the impending event nears with random outbursts and growing anger over anything deemed to be offensive, out-of-place or just unacceptable at that moment in time, or any other moment in time past, present or future until it culminates just before the event where I, more often than not, cancel our attendance and deal with the following fallout that can last from a few hours to several weeks.

I have kind of managed to deal with the hurt and heartache for many years and at one point we seemed to be heading in a positive direction with minimal 'storms' coming through. I even felt that we had turned a real corner and was very grateful for the nice family times we had together (but not with my extended family). This all came to a stunning halt on my daughter's birthday late last year when some of my family forgot to wish her a happy birthday on the actual day itself (my daughter was not concerned with this at all). Since then the highs and lows have been more frequent and incredibly more contrasting, as in a really big high, happy time with a super-fast about-face to an all-encompassing low at the drop of a hat with no warnings that I can see.

I had planned to take a day of annual leave next week to celebrate our 15th wedding anniversary with her and she has just told me that she is grateful for the last 15 years but she can no longer accept the lack of support that I have shown her and the kids throughout that time. She was grateful for her first affair as he helped save her from an awful situation and saved her sanity and life at the time and that it was only the birth of our son that pulled her out of the depths of despair that she felt at the time. She has stated that our wedding day was not an enjoyable day and that she will no longer celebrate such a non-happy occasion and has asked that I go to work and respect her wishes to spend it with our son (11) as our daughter will be at a friends place (she refers to my daughter as 'daddy's girl' as she regularly challenges my wife on her point of view).
I am and have been the sole wage earner for the family even though my wife is extremely intelligent and has more qualifications than me. She worked part-time for a few months once before having a mental breakdown, blaming the work for all of her problems in life, and had an affair with a co-worker as well. She has since declared that all she wants to do is be a stay-at-home mum and care for the kids - a role that I fully supported as very important and great for our kids well-being and I did offer to be the stay-at-home parent as well given her qualifications, which was immediately shot-down as a terrible idea as 'society' would judge her as a poor mother for doing that. Interestingly she also feels that 'society' judges her for being a stay-at-home mum and does not value her services. Also to add to that, for the last 15 years I have also been the one doing the housecleaning, laundry, the majority of the cooking, home maintenance, school lunches, etc and I have often felt as if I am a single parent with three kids at home! If I have ever tried to ask if she is grateful for any of the assistance I have provided she screams at me about how I always try to make that seem like it is important when I obviously don't support her emotionally when and where it counts... .I have never claimed that was highly important, just moderately helpful to someone reporting to others about how hard she works at home looking after the kids, who are at school.

There is no doubt that my wife loves our kids and she has never physically harmed them but she does set high standards for them as far as how clean and organised their rooms must be before they are allowed to go anywhere or do anything else. If there is a single piece of clothing out of place she will lose the plot. The funniest and saddest part of that is that she has clothes strewn all over her room on a good day and often has several months of washed clothes that I have washed, dried and folded into baskets, lying around the bedroom mixed with dirty washing thrown casually over the top. It will usually culminate in a rage about how messy the house is because of all of us (not her) and a demand that I assist her to clean up 'our' mess (for me it is often a book left in the wrong spot or my shoes have not been pushed all the way back in the shoe rack - her shoes are left all over the house wherever she feels like taking them off). She will leave her dirty dishes and rubbish around the house and then castigate me for the house being messy once someone else has left a plate out of place. I dare not suggest that she utilise the bin or wash her own dish as this will result in an even bigger explosion and yet another example of how I try to use every opportunity to put her down.

When I get home from work I can always tell when a visitor has been over as the dishes will be washed. When we have visitors over she is wonderfully nice, incredibly polite and will wash and clean up in front of everyone else. If I try to assist she tells me to leave it. If it is her family I will be told off afterwards for making her look bad.

I apologise for the length of this and realise it does not really follow a logical progression but I did not plan on going on as much as I have as I know there are many people in far worse positions than me in this world. I am not trying to have a whinge as I am incredibly grateful for the 2 amazing children that we have and we have also had many wonderful moments together as a family, it has just become harder and harder to hold onto those nice memories as the intensity and frequency of her mood swings have increased. I still love my wife very much and was so grateful to receive the books from my dad that made me realise I was not going insane and that many others have been through similar experiences. This was just supposed to be a short introduction of myself to the group here and I appreciate your time and patience for reading this!

I am really looking for ideas and some new inspiration as to how I can cope with this situation. My kids are getting older and within the next 7-8 years will probably both be moved out (they both speak with me in private about how they are looking forward to having their own places when they get older as any talk about this topic to my wife elicits an angry response, accusing them of not being grateful for everything she has done for them and wanting to abandon her).

I know that my kids have been my biggest reason for staying in recent years as I feel that I can provide them with some balance and a sense of sanity in what can often become a highly confusing situation at home. I assure them regularly that they are wonderful and they are loved, no matter what, and I will always listen to them without judgement to anything they may be feeling. I am feeling tired, alone and stuck at the moment, which is probably why I am still typing!

 
Thank you for listening and look forward to sharing and listening to others in similar situations.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Slim-

I'd like to welcome you to our BPD family and express  how deeply sorry I am for the pain you are going through in your marriage.  It's actually wonderful that you shared a good amount of information in your first post.  It really helps to put this down in writing (for YOU to see it, "touch " it, so to speak).  And This will help other friends here respond to you in a more meaningful way, rather than simply coming back to you with more questions about the dynamics of your marriage.

I would like to say that I am glad that it seems you've been able to maintain a pretty open and honest relationship with your dad, i.e. The book he gave you.  It's so vital to have a good support network if at all possible.  And I understand the way outside relationships can be made to fall by the wayside when you're involved with a pwBPD (person with BPD).  PwBPD can be extremely threatened by "intruders" (my interpretation).

Please do what you can to keep your dad, and any other of YOUR family members close at heart and at hand (meaning in contact with you) whenever possible.  I do understand that you may need to use care to not feed your BPD W's feelings of being "threatened" by any relationship you have with your family.  

Aside from her escalations just prior to events involving your family , how does she feel about your having contact with your family?  Are you "permitted" to take the children to see your family without your wife coming along?

It sounds as if your children recognize the imbalance in your home and have complete confidence in YOU to protect and love them, which is great.  It appears that if the kids have heard any of the belittling comments your BPDw has directed at you, they don't buy into them... .your kids are wise... .and they have eyes!   They KNOW everything you do to keep the household running.

Your post title "15 years of marriage about to end"... .within your post, you do not say that you are prepared to end your marriage.  Has your W seriously threatened divorce?  If so, with her apparent lack of skills (or perhaps it's just the lack of willingness), is she actually CAPABLE of caring for the children without you in the home day to day?

Also re: her affairs. (Sorry... .I understand, a very painful topic), how were you able to forgive these actions?  :)id she or has she EVER taken responsibility or apologized for any of her behaviors?

There is so MUCH more to address... . you will find wonderful support here from people who truly understand what you are going through.  Our site has tools to help you build communication skills, eliminate our "normal" means of communication, because many of the normal things we do just push BPD's off the rails.  In addition, there are other very insightful articles and videos here... .definitely worth the time.  Also worthwhile is reading  others' posts... .you will then KNOW you are in good company.

A vital thing for you to absorb is that you didn't cause her illness.  She had this illness and these behaviors long before you ever met her.  And VERY IMPORTANT!  You are NONE of the names she has called you!  Please know that.  None of this is your fault.  You did NOT break her, and you cannot "fix"her.  But you CAN improve how you communicate with her.  And depending on what you determine you want your future to look like, with some intensive therapy on her part, she may eventually take on some adult responsibilities. Has she ever acknowledged that something may be wrong with her behavior?

Sorry, I'm rambling.  It's way too late... .

It's very important for you to take care of yourself.  There is a lot on your shoulders.  You love your kids, and your wife... .that's pretty clear.  But you MUST take care of yourself.  Try to visualize, if you will, what that self-care may look like, and then perhaps take a little step toward that.  It could even take the form of an evening walk with your kids three nights each week.  And as you'll see, you are allowed to disengage when she begins to rage.

Well Slim, we are here to support you in any way possible.  No post is too long; say what you need to say.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Slim70]

Hi Gemsforeyes
Thank you so much for your reply. It's so nice to know there are people who understand where I am and that I am not alone!
Great questions and here are the answers as best as I currently understand it but this does change frequently.
- She hates the kids having contact with my family and I have have to arrange for 'windows' of opportunities for this to occur and they often fall through. She doesn't mind my dad sometimes but literally hates my mum and my brothers.
- I get on extremely well with her family and this is also my fault as her family tend to side with me rather than her on any topics that come up about family matters, even though I try not to even have those discussions (I am blamed for how well her family like me as I obviously give off a 'vibe' that makes them feel sorry for me!) This is why I am not allowed to assist with any cleaning up when people come over, particularly her family. I was hanging up the washing the other day when her mum came around and I was told to leave it there and get inside immediately so I could come and 'greet' her mum and open the door for her - the door that my wife was standing next to.
- I do not want the marriage to end, she has stated it although as far as I could understand from the talk (I was not permitted to say anything or asked about how I felt) she wants to have a happy home for the kids so she is willing to allow me to continue living together under the same roof to support the kids but she was very clear that she feels there is absolutely nothing there between her an I. When the kids move out we will go our separate ways. She thanked me for the last 15 years, said that she does not expect me to change so she is 'moving on' with her life. I may be wrong on some of this as I was unable to even try and clarify any points with her. I was using some open listening techniques and wanted to be sure I understood feelings and thoughts but that seemed to aggravate her more.
Only a week ago we were on a family camping trip and she was extremely loving and happy with us all, telling me how much she loved me.
We had a trial separation about a year ago that lasted 3 days before she rang and said the kids were missing me. Within 24 hours I was back on house duties again.
As far as the past affairs that she has had, there are periods of time where she seems to be out of the emotional fog that she often seems to be stuck in. In those periods she has expressly apologised for her past actions and behaviors and it felt very genuine at the time and I forgave her for those. I believe that life is far too short to bear a grudge and I have far too much to do than hold onto negative emotions as they are very draining, although I was extremely upset at the times they occurred. Now it seems as though she is using that against me as she is now openly talking about how the affairs saved her sanity (my feelings at the time are no longer any consideration).
I am about to head home now and I do have a knot in my stomach as I really do not know what I will be walking into.
I cannot express how much your reply means to me and has provided some semblance of normalcy which I think I have lost sight of what that feels like. I will try some steps to look after myself too as I know this has not occurred for some time now. Thank you

[HouseDad3]

 Thank you for sharing Slim, reading your post was like reading a narrative of my own life. I too, have been married 15 years but have three children. I have been suffering with thoughts of loneliness, isolation, and feeling like a prisoner within a relationship. The experiences you described, although not my exact situations,  are nearly the same type of blow ups I experience. My wife being hypersensitive to the children’s behavior yet demonstrating and doing the exact behaviors she condones is one example. . She yells at the children to complete their chores yet she will not do her own and then gets mad when the children ask why she doesn’t complete her’s. As my children entered their teen years, they begin to question and share their observations which fuel the volatile situation.

All I could think about when reading your post was, “I am not alone.”  Sometimes just reaching out on a board like this or being able to talk to someone in person is very helpful.

HouseDad3

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Slim and HouseDad-

It most certainly IS comforting to know that you are NOT alone in the type of life you're living, but it doesn't ease the pain of it, or make the daily grind or emotional exhaustion any easier.  This community can however, begin to ease some of your feelings of isolation; and through learning some of the communication tools, there is a good chance that you can move toward de-escalating some of the rage in your SO's.

HouseDad, just like I told Slim... .please know, you did NOT cause your wife's illness, and although just like Slim, you are likely blamed by your wife for most of her dysregulation, you are NOT THE REAL trigger.  The more you read on this site, the more you'll understand; and will hopefully get to the point of being able to de-personalize these personal assaults.  I do understand the deep and cutting  pain the verbal assaults inflict.  I have literally felt an emptying of my soul... .but I don't feel that way anymore. 

Once I truly understood what I was dealing with, I began with validation and setting boundaries; although I do not validate the invalid. There is so MUCH to learn.  And to a some extent, I think there needs to be some type of "buy in" from your partner that things would be better if the dynamics in the relationship changed.  In my case, my BPD BF was trying to reunite with me AGAIN.  We had a long phone convo, and I asked if he screamed at other people like that, or only at me.  He said he did it to everyone.  I told him it must hurt/be painful for him to feel that level of rage.  He said he didn't want to feel that way anymore.  My BPD boyfriend knew there was something I was doing differently.  (And he actually mimicked MY behavior and began validating ME!)

Do either of your wives either  acknowledge or know they suffer from BPD traits?  Have either of them done any therapy?  Are either of them willing to do any personal growth work?  How would they respond if you were to tell them that YOU want to work on "yourself" in order to improve your marriage?

It is a long journey... .but our goal really must be taking care of ourselves (and your children); and to re-introduce yourself into YOUR life.  We can become lost in these marriages.   You are still in there.  You need to believe that, and value who YOU are.  No matter what some other person may say AT you.


Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Slim70]

Thank you Gemsforeyes.

I realise that I do have a lot to learn and looking forward to that is a real comfort. After sharing on the board and receiving your reply before I went home last week I found that I was not as 'on-edge' as I have been before and even though things were rough I actually had a sense of peace and calm that I have not felt in a long time. I actually slept remarkably well as I no longer felt I was clinging to a slippery rock in the middle of the ocean during a hurricane. In reading the SWOE books it certainly is opening my eyes and my heart to the fact there is a light and I am avidly working through the workbook to start applying and practicing some of the techniques but sharing this post and having others actually understand has been incredible.

As I had noted before, I have lived with her ups and downs now for many years and I thought I could kind of tell when the storms were coming but recently that has not been the case at all and the changes have been dramatically higher and lower between the emotional storms and I had come to an all-time low for myself as far as energy, faith and belief in myself.

Hi HouseDad3. Your description is exactly the same as what occurs regularly in our house!  The pillows on the couch were put back facing the wrong way this morning by my daughter while my wife's shoes, some of her clothes and magazines she was reading were all over the lounge room... .I understand your situation and the head spins that it causes.

I can tell you that as the kids become teens they do question the non-logic that occurs and my daughter in particular being the older of the two really pushes back now. She is very similar to my wife on many levels being highly intelligent and very strong willed but she has an extremely balanced view on life and I am also on this journey of learning to assist and show my kids that they are also not alone in this and that there are people around them that will always support them, no matter what they may be thinking or going through. It is interesting that I am noticing that I have been giving some similar advice to my kids that Gemsforeyes is now providing to me. I just never thought to take the advice for myself and I think this is because I have felt so isolated and alone for so long that I took it all on me to try and hold everything together. I have not been taking care of myself.

My wife reluctantly agreed to seek some counseling about 8 years ago for what we believed may have been some form of post-natal depression, with the assistance of my mother who is a midwife. I went with my wife to the one and only Psychiatrist session where the Psychiatrist, in my opinion, was right on with his comments and treatment suggestions at the time which included a short time on some low-dose medication to assist her to start coping and learning some cognitive behavioral therapy techniques. We went and bought the medication from the chemist and she took 1 tablet and promptly threw-up within 2 minutes, stating that she felt the medication was making her feel dizzy, sick and like she could not breath. (The tablet came out fully intact in its capsule and could not have possibly taken any effect in that space of time). She then threw out the rest of the medication and stated that it was all my mum and my fault for forcing her into such a situation and she would get her own counseling sorted without us. She then went to a regular counselor, not a mental health specialist, by herself for 2 sessions only (it was supposed to be an initial 6 sessions over three weeks with some monthly sessions afterwards) and declared that the counselor had been shocked at the horrible situation that she had found herself in life and at home (with me and the dynamics of my horrible mother and family) and that she should cut out anyone in her life that caused her any stress. I do not actually know what was said or shared at the sessions as that was her account of the advice offered. I asked if she felt the sessions were helping her and she said they did but that there was nothing else that the counselor could offer her as they had not been through what she had been through in life so she did not require any further sessions. This wonderful 'advice' has been regularly quoted to me ever since as the reason why we should not spend any time with any of my family, usually about an hour or so before we are due to attend something. We often do not attend or some other 'emergency' comes up that means that we cannot go.

My belief is that the counselor probably started making her uncomfortable with some self-reflection and she therefore cut them out of her life as well. I also sought some counseling for myself at the time and was ordered by my wife not to attend before I was going to go, then she was feeling extremely unwell and could not get out of bed for a couple of days and I needed to go to the chemist to get her some medication, get certain foods, etc, etc and I did not end up going. It did come out in a rage or hers some weeks later that she believed that I would just end up getting yet another person on my side and she did not trust that I would not discuss her past indiscretions and once that was out, the counselor would no longer focus on the real problem (ie, me) and just get caught up on things to do with her... .  I have been told many, many times by her that if I am not willing to grow and learn that the problem with me will never be fixed. Funny that I am now realising that her words are correct, even if her meaning is quite different.

I am now ready to learn and grow for myself and am very grateful to you both for your contact as I actually feel a lightness today that I have not felt for a long time.

Best regards,
Slim70

[Slim70]

Hi again

Had a MASSIVE turnaround this morning with my wife's mood with her coming up to me with big smiles and hugs and saying she was sorry for what she said the other day and asking where I am going to take her for a special lunch on our anniversary day... .She seemed very puzzled that I looked confused and hesitated and her apology felt very trivial for such a nasty outburst and apparent ending of our marriage last week. It is interesting that she does not seem to have any concept of how her words and actions affect anyone else around her at all, almost as if it never happened. I have experienced similar before, it is just the speed of the change and massive jumps that are bouncing me around at the moment.
I would really like her to get some professional help if possible but am unsure how to even broach the topic now as the past attempt to seek professional assistance (for possible post-natal depression) ended terribly. We have never discussed the concept of BPD as I am only just discovering and learning about all of this for myself now and I don't feel that would go well if I were to raise the topic with her either.
Any suggestions as to how I can start the ball rolling or get some type of dialogue opened about getting some professional help that has worked for anyone?

Thanks for listening.
Slim70

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Slim-  (due to system glitch, I cannot proof this!)

I really need to give this some thought, and may enlist some input from some of our more experienced members.  One thing I do know, is that it is NOT recommended that we ever bring up BPD to a person we suspect of having the illness.  That scenario just doesn't usually play out well.

I'm sure you were caught completely off guard when your wife sweetly approached you about an anniversary lunch.  When you regained your footing, how did you respond?  :)id you ask her which restaurant she'd like to go to with you?  Or perhaps suggest a picnic and a nice walk together?  Maybe something that you wouldn't normally do to mark the occasion... .just to show YOURSELF  that you're going to be taking some new steps within the marriage.

 In order for the date to be as 'conflict-free' as possible, maybe include her in some of your planning (type of food she likes, etc), but then throw in a little surprise (maybe a homemade card or some flowers) to make her feel special.  Yes, I acknowledge some of this may feel contrived with all the pain and stress you've been enduring, but let's see if she can remind you of why you still love her.  And by that I mean whether she can truly express appreciation for making her day special.

And if that anniversary date DOES in fact turn out well (and convince yourself it WILL), then you can perhaps work on the therapy issue.  But not for her, for YOU.  You can phrase it in such a way that you want to somehow "learn to be a better husband".  My GOD, I hate the fact that those words even came out of my fingers onto this keyboard... .but I'm trying to find a way for you to get to therapy with the least resistance!  Bottom line... .she's going to rage about things anyway, right?  So at some point, do we silently say... ."okay, scream to your little heart's content, "I'm" going to help myself ".  I believe WE DO reach that point where we just can no longer completely surrender to the will and whims of the other.

Dear Slim, here's my take on relationships with  pwBPD.  While we are in the cycle of abuse, we lose ourselves.  We feel as if our souls have been emptied.  We are so emotionally exhausted.  We become either too skinny, too overweight, too this or too that.  We no longer do ANYTHING that can be interpreted as even remotely "selfish" or self-serving.  We are afraid of our own shadows.  We are afraid to walk out AND walk in; afraid to answer the phone.  We pray for a moment of peace.    Especially in trying to protect the children, we really lose ourselves and our own perspective of OUR needs.  

I really feel that BEFORE you can urge your W to get help, it would be good to strengthen YOU.  And what you choose to do FOR you is YOUR choice.  NOT hers.  When pwBPD see us "nons" as weak, they tend to lose respect for us.  When they see us as gathering strength, although it may threaten them, they may show us their kicking and screaming, by they DO tend to gain some level of respect.  The things you do for yourself, will ultimately help your children and help you gain perspective on your W's behaviors.  Steps you take starting now, learning, talking, writing, will help you rebuild your strength... .so that regardless of WHAT happens next week, next month, next year, YOU will be strong and able.  It is a process.  Baby steps, my friend.  But you WILL climb out of this hopeless feeling because you CAN.

 When you think about it, your W has already done so many hurtful things.  Unfortunately for her, with her illness and lack of maturity and understanding, she'll always blame you.  NONE of her misbehavior is or was your fault.  To her, feelings equal facts.  That's the disorder.  And again, you CANNOT "fix" her.  Until the day comes where SHE senses that something in her is not right, she won't take any steps to change.  Too hard.  Much much easier to blame you!  Your choice is to start taking care of yourself.  No matter what she says.

I used to say about my ex-husband... .he was the wind and I was the wheat.  The wind could be light and breezy or it could be hurricane force, tearing at my very core, and tearing at my roots and everything that surrounded me. That was a horrible feeling.  My analogy used to also apply to my BPD BF.  It no longer does, because I opted to take back what "control" I could.  And so can you.

In choosing a therapist, please be selective.  :)o some research and try to find a person who understands BPD and codependent behavior.  You are a very loving man.  You CAN do this.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Slim-

Sorry that post was so long... .For some reason I couldn't proof read it.

One more thought... .is there any chance that you could go to therapy WITHOUT her knowing about it?  Or would that just be too costly if she were to find out?  Either way,  you are allowed to do it for yourself.  Please know that.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Slim70]

Hi Gemsforeyes

Thank you for your reply. Your description of wind and wheat was particularly moving and I can see that in my life too. I'm sorry that you have gone through those tough times but you certainly have come through a much stronger and more confident person!

For the anniversary lunch I have actually booked us in to a nice restaurant that we both enjoy and have written her a card and bought some earrings with a nice design that I feel she will appreciate to give her on the day. I am very focused now on making it a nice day for both of us, regardless of the roller coaster ride we went through in the last week and previous, and I am confident the day will go well. I know I still love her even though I do not like some of her behaviors.

I will look into some counseling for myself to begin with as you have suggested and I remember how bad her reaction was last time I discussed me having some counseling. I will seek this out privately for myself for now as I am seeing that it is ok for me to take care of me - A strange thing to say out loud as it seems obvious but not something that I have been doing at all for a long time.

I really agree with the lack of respect aspect you also mentioned as she has vocalised many, many times when she is in a rage how she does not respect me as a husband or a man. She has often later apologised for her comments at a later date but again always seems puzzled if I seem to be still upset or hurt in any way. She has told me also in some of her moments that she does not appreciate me showing any form of 'self-pity' (that is showing any signs of being hurt or upset by her comments at the time she says them) and it is just a sign of how I don't understand the pain I am causing her. I have tried a whole range of different responses to her rages in the past to see if it makes any difference to the outcome but now am looking to put some of the techniques in SWOE to see how that goes. To date my reactions and behaviors have probably just been ultimately allowing her to use me as a human, emotional punching bag, which is not good for either of us.

I do understand that the only person I have any control over is me and my actions and decisions for myself. While I do love my wife very much, all I can do is offer my love and support for any positive changes she may wish to make for herself. Being a stronger, healthier me is good for everyone around me as well as for me.

Thank you again for your very kind support. It is truly amazing.

Best regards

Slim70

[maman]

Hi Slim 70,

I read your posts and I thought about a book that may help you.  It's called
Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life by Margalis Fjelstad .  This book is more about you and how to help yourself than about the BPD.  It has some great info on working on healing you, and then helping the relationship with the BPD.  For myself, the way I coped with a uBPD daughter-in-law was to educate myself through books, seeing an expert in BPD and this web-site.

[HouseDad3]

Hi all,

I have been attending therapy for several years (off and on - though regularly the past eight months).  Years ago, my W and I started couples counseling together and through those sessions she was referred to DBT (it was through those sessions and internet research, I discovered BPD - It was the biggest moment of clarity I've ever experienced).  She attended one DBT session before quitting - citing issues with the therapist and other attendees.   

Two years ago, police were sent to my home by a mental health professional based on a phone conversation he was having with my wife.  The mental health professional felt she was suicidal.  The police arrived and she claimed it was a medication issue.  She and the police agreed to allow me to take her to the hospital to have her medication levels checked and reviewed by a psychiatrist.  She was in agreement and I fully explained this was to check her meds as a professional had felt great concern for her mental state in so much as they contacted police.  She was examined, medication prescriptions were adjusted, she was referred to an individual therapist, and she was released for home within hours.

(Now years later, she becomes very agitated the same time of year and tells me, "You'd be pissed and betrayed too remembering how your spouse attempted to get you committed into the psych ward in order to gain custody of the kids."  WHAT?)

After leaving the hospital, I emailed the new therapist (what I thought would be with confidentiality) to provide some background on the circumstances of the police visit and her untreated BPD.

After about 18 months of therapy, the therapist moved out of state but before doing so they told my wife of the email I'd sent before the therapy began.  My wife confronted me and I acknowledged I'd sent the email but I wasn't willing to share it at that time.  Some months later she was in the middle of an episode when she asked about it again and explained how she couldn't trust me. (This is her major/current point - She tells me I'm untrustworthy)   I forwarded her the email.  Her response was, "Well, that wasn't so bad."  I was surprised how she didn't come unglued.

Now month's later, the narrative has changed.  She now says I told her there wasn't an email sent, then I don't remember, then I can't find it, then all of the sudden there was an email.  From her description, I'm being deceitful about the entire incident.

I continue to see our original therapist.  The therapist has stated he doesn't have the experience or skillset needed to treat BPD and has given us many referrals to therapists who do.  I set appointments, we attend, and like watching a strange (because it's MY life involved) documentary on the behaviors of a BPD, a switch is flipped and she doesn't want to be in the therapist's office.  Last month in December, while meeting with a new therapist my wife began the session providing the back story to why we were seeking therapy.  I sat quietly and allowed her to explain her point of view (even as the truth of many situations were not as she described them).  The therapist asked very good questions picking up on my wife's inconsistent statements - a major one being she feels I've unfairly labeled her with BPD.  The therapist asked, "How did the referral from your original therapist to DBT come about?"  It was in that moment, my wife turned and said she didn't want to be with this therapist and wanted our original one back.

So, at this moment she doesn't believe she has BPD (even though she was on board years ago when our original therapist first recommended DBT), and claims she had a phone conversation with a national BPD expert and was reassured she isn't BPD.

I asked her point blank if she'd be willing to continue seeking therapy and she said, "NO!"

So, here I am.  She is unwilling to acknowledge BPD.  She says I'm labeling her and trying to get someone else to "fix her."  She's angry I've continued treatment with our original therapist so I can "be the best me I can be."  She feels me and the therapist are planning nefarious actions against her.  Very simple conversations with her are extremely difficult as she'll change the narrative completely.  One example recently was when I told her of the current bills still outstanding for payment and how much we had in our family finances (she's the family financial provider).  A few days later when I reminded her we couldn't send money for a certain purchase because we still had outstanding bills she because upset and yelled that I had told her days ago how the bills were PAID.  I calmly said, "I'm sorry that was your understanding but those were not paid."  We are now nearing the end of the month and we will be short to make the monthly bills.

I could go on but I'll end it by saying, I feel scared.  I'm scared for my kids, for me, and for her.  My therapist and I have discussed, "You can't argue with the irrational."  All I can do is be strong and stable - but it's harder every day.

Thanks for letting me get some of my chest.

HouseDad

[Slim70]

Hi again

Well the anniversary day went ok in itself. My wife changed the location of lunch as she did not feel like going to the one I had organised and she also gave me a long list of things that needed to be done around the house on the day, sorting, fixing, etc. She did say thank you for the earrings and wore them for two days before leaving them sitting on a bench near the front door, where they are still there today. At the end of the day she smiled at me and asked how my 'day off work' had been before going into another attack against my mother for being a narcissistic, self absorbed person who only cares about herself. My mother is not perfect but knows she is not welcome around my wife and therefore tries to catch up with me and our kids at other places such as kids sporting events. I get chastised by my wife when my mum does turn up as I did not warn her or ask her about having my mum attend but I have also been told that she wants nothing to do with my mum or family or anything they do so don't talk to her about it either. I found myself listening very intently to my wife's choice of words and really listening to how she was expressing herself rather than reacting to things she says as I have been doing. I used the open listening techniques to clarify her points and found she seemed to be describing herself and her actions. She became quite agitated with me  and accused me of trying to twist her words but I assured her I was just wanting to really listen and understand her point of view. This seemed to frustrate her as well as I was not emotionally responding and then she started to step up the more hurtful comments but I was able to stay calm and suggest we continue the discussion the next day when we were both more awake as I was quite tired from all of the activities I had done during the day and wanted to be able to discuss things with more clarity tomorrow. She was not very happy but agreed to that and I was able to sleep quite soundly and relaxed where I have previously been quite on edge and restless after one of our late night sessions of her telling me how horrible I am and everyone else was to her. The next day she did not restart that conversation but it came out again last night after earlier in the day was a very different vibe.

Earlier in the day yesterday she had said to me that she was ready to love me now and was all smiles and loving towards me. Last night she was cold towards me. Today she has been very distant and telling me that this year is going to be a year of no distractions - that is not being interrupted by family or friends trying to force us to do things we don't want to do (ie, catch up when she is not interested in catching up). She then told me that she expects me to 'defend' her and our kids from my family as she has defended us from hers (my kids and I get on fine with both my family and her family).

She is regularly talking about how people continue to use and abuse us, such as us having kids over to play and to take places when no one else offers to have our kids over to stay and play. This situation is actually incorrect as my kids are invited to peoples places but there is usually a reason that my wife will come up with to cancel, not attend, etc. It is true that many people we know do not offer as they used to but when you get knocked back many, many times you would stop providing invites.

My wife has also been reading some self-help personal growth books recently that I have supported and encouraged but so far she seems to only quote and see the parts that support her vision of the world and to point out paragraphs to me as to how I need to change. I have suggested that I start reading the books as well (for myself) and she was oddly hesitant by that comment but as I am ready to start building myself up again I can now start that a bit more openly at home with some good literature. I am also looking privately for a counselor for myself too.

My wife seems to have been very frustrated with me over the last few days as I have not been as outwardly affected by her increasingly erratic behavior as I have previously been. I have been feeling a lot calmer inside and the difference is that I have been sharing here for the first time some of my actual daily dealings and feelings about my wife's behaviors. I do not know how this year is going to go but am now looking forward to being there for my kids and myself as I am understanding more and more that I cannot change the way my wife sees and chooses to interact with the world but I can do so for me. I have a sense of hope for the future that has been missing and I thank this forum and Gemsforeyes for assisting me with that.

Best wishes

Slim70

[joshbjoshb]

Oh, dear friends. I read your posts and don't know if to cry or to laugh. The situation is reading the same as my life story... .except that today I can also laugh at it because it's so bizarre. It really is. You mentioned a movie - yes, our life story deserves a movie, and it will be an Oscar nominee! We are dealing with some of the strangest in human behavior.

Here is the BIGGEST thing you can do for yourself. To me, that was the biggest change in my life. I can't stress that enough - it was something that literally saved my life.

STOP BEING AFFECTED BY HER MOOD SWINGS.

I want you to know that if you are impacted by her mood swing, if you keep on keeping tab on her moods, if you are scared or always worried about it, you need to know that in addition to the fact that she is a problem, you have one too.

Now please forgive me for saying it. I don't know you - I know nothing about you. But I do know myself. I had a huge problem and I am so grateful that that problem is much smaller than it used to be.

That problem is that you, yourself, are not confident enough. You, yourself, are still seeking her validation. Now how crazy can that be - to try to get validation from someone who is not mentally stable?

You need to work on yourself to become strong to a point that it won't really matter if she is happy, crazy, mad or screaming. You are a dignified human being, you know who you are, name calling you or blaming you for things you didn't do can just make you laugh (at least on the inside!) and you know that your partner has major issues that she, and only she, can take care of.

It took me tremendous amount of work to get to that place. Today when she is all loving and affectionate, I have no problem embracing it (I should be honest though that I enjoy it with knowing in the back of my mind that this is temporary and in few minutes or few days she can become the monster once again). If she is raging, I don't take to heart. I am communicating in a respectful way because this is how I communicate. I don't expect any normal spousal behavior from her as I don't think she is capable of giving me any. I don't feel bad that she does or not love me since the world love means something very different than it means to me. But overall, I am happy. I am happy about my work, I love my children, I am happy about the life I have.

Would I chosen to marry her if I knew what she has? No way in the world. Would I have chosen to stay if not for our amazing children? Perhaps not. But who cares? What if's is for victims. I am not a victim anymore.

Please think about this long and hard. It's possible that YOU need to work on developing a self identity you never had. If that's the case, expect her to scream as you work on yourself - she will be petrified to find out that you are becoming strong and independent. She will translate it as you going to leave her. But again, don't worry about her - it won't matter what you do, you can't change her. Change yourself, become stronger and healthier!

[Slim70]

Hi joshbjoshb

Thank you for your honesty and I agree with everything you are saying. I have come to realise through my recent reading and posts that it is me that needs to work on me and stop trying to get help for her. When or if she is ready she will seek out assistance for herself and I will be there to support that but yes, I must work on myself. I am already noticing a shift in my reactions and can view the situation more as a spectator to her mood swings rather than a leaf being hurled around in a vortex as before. Great to hear how well you are able to manage and make the most of your family time. It is very inspiring to hear that.

Hi Housedad3
So sorry to hear how your situation has been going for you and I can see many scary similarities in the types of comments and reactions that your wife has to mine. Hopefully you are also starting to see as I am that you are not crazy and there are many people that understand what you are dealing with. I certainly have found this point alone to be immensely comforting.

All of the wonderful support and comments and readings I am doing now point to the same outcome that we must work on ourselves. I certainly have forgotten who I am as an individual as I have been desperately trying to 'keep everything together' for everyone but myself for a long time. It is a strange experience but I feel as if I am the one coming out of a fog right now and it feels good.

Thank you all for your amazing posts and comments.

Best regards

Slim70

[UserZer0]

Just a quick suggestion based on my experiences with my (suspected) BPD wife (who seems to be very similar to your own just for your information).

If you decide to go to therapy then make sure to get a P.O. box or have the bills mailed to you at work.

I recently had my wife open a bill from a lawyer I had consulted (during one of her "divorce" periods) and have been paying for that little "error" on her part for the last two days.

Even with the envelope being unmarked except for my name and address the error occurred, so don't take the same risk.

FYI: I only consulted with the lawyer concerning how to protect myself and my reputation in order to ensure protection of the kids should it actually come to divorce. 
I read too much about BPDs going "toxic" and spreading bad rumors to destroy their partners reputations.

Good luck!

[Slim70]

Hi All

Just thought I would provide an update as to the progress and it certainly has been a bumpy ride although I am definitely handling things a lot better than before. I have had moments where I found myself getting pulled in again to old patterns but then have managed to step back again and take control of me again.

I could see my wife was getting more and more agitated about daily things in the house when she would go off at the smallest, and strangest things. When I was not reacting she started having a go at the kids. When I defused that she started getting very quiet and was withdrawing somewhat until this weekend just past where it all came out while we were at her mums house.

For some background, I had given her a token card and gift on Valentine's Day and she did say thank you and agreed that we could go out for dinner that night. Once I got home she had decided that it was all too hard and she just wanted to relax at home instead. She then received a call from a friend of hers who she then went out for dinner with. I made a comment that I thought she was going to relax and she yelled that she was allowed to change her mind and I should stop trying to control her... .

She had also encouraged me to set up a group chat with my family so that we could converse more and arrange some catch-ups. I see know that this was a very bad idea as it was simply a trap set to catch the communications between my family and use them against me as 'evidence' of how horrible they are. (One of my brother's does not tend to respond to communications and my mum tends to communicate a lot). This was showing my mum's 'narcissistic' personality in trying to control the group to do what she wants - we were invited to come over for dinner, and my brother's ultimate rudeness in ignoring everybody and not bothering to reply - which he has often done but does attend events if he is invited.

While at her mum's house with guests there, my wife had got hold of my phone and was going through all of my work emails, sms logs and group chats and held up the screen to me to very angrily say (in front of my son) why was I not showing her these horrible communications from my mother as it proves how much of a narcissist she is and that I had deceived her (my wife) into suggesting that a group chat be set up with my family with such a ***** and how could I subject the kids and her to that type of person, etc, etc. I reminded her that she had asked for me to manage the contacts with my family as she did not want to be a part of that and I asked why she was going through my phone. She became even angrier then and started saying 'you and me are done, over. This is finished.' so I took my phone back and said yes, you are right, it is over, and I walked out the front of the house to get some space and stay calm.

She came out of the house after a few minutes and stormed up to me and said how could I have been so nasty and placed my son in such a terrible situation, and in a public place, her parents house of all places. I reminded her that she was the one who said it was over, I just agreed with her. She demanded that I shut up and I asked her to speak politely, where she then stepped up the command to shut up with even more swear words, which I just asked her to stop the swearing and not be so rude. This made her even more angry and she accused me of always having to have the last word. (This was interesting as I rarely get to say anything at all!) I came back in and went to find my son to chat with him and my wife announced that we were leaving as I had again ruined the day, just before we were going to have dinner with everyone. I went and found my son, who seemed ok, and apologised for the scene that had played out with him in the room and assured him that he was very much loved. I went to see my parents in law who were with their friends out the back of their house (no one was in the house when she started the whole performance apart from my son). They asked me what was wrong as they were about to put dinner on. I told them that we had to go as my wife had said that she wanted to end the relationship and I apologised for the disruption. They were very understanding and said tomorrow is another day as my wife stayed at the front of the house.

We drove home where I got the kids some dinner and got my sons gear ready for cricket the next day. She went to our kitchen table and pulled out all photos with my mother or family in them from frames around the house and cut them up into tiny pieces in a pile on the table. When I walked in to see what she was doing I just left her there and did not react. I went to sleep on the couch and waited for what I knew was going to come. An hour or so later the lounge room light came on and in she came to let me have it. She launched into a tirade of how much she despised my family, my mum especially, and how much she regretted not having the courage to stand up to them and leave me before we had kids. Now she was trapped as she was relying on me financially (her choice as she could easily earn money) and how all she could see when she looked at me was my mother and as she hated my mother, she hated me too. She had not felt anything for me for a long time and just longed to go and jump on some of the guys she meets when she goes out dancing with her friends but doesn't because of the kids and asked me what I thought of that. I told her that she should do whatever she wanted to do as it was her life but before I could finish my sentence she was off again as I had not reacted the way she was obviously wanting. She accused me again of not being able to just shut up and listen and went on again. I attempted to leave the conversation several times and reminded her that both the loudness of her voice and the swear words were not required. This went down badly but I was alright with that.  She finally left and went to the bedroom and I was able to get some sleep.

The next day I was able to talk to my son about the conversations that he had seen and heard and got to assure him again that it was just between his mum and I and not to do with him or his sister at all. He asked me about whether he was in any of the photos that were cut up on the table and I told him he was not, it was just my family and mum that had been cut up (unfortunately my kids were also in many of the photos with my family or my mother that had been cut up). I said that I felt very sorry for mum acting that way but that we cannot control how another person is, we can control how we are and he can come to me anytime he wants to talk. I spoke to my daughter later in the day along a very similar line, although more adult due to her being older and she was alright with everything.

Yesterday and this morning my wife has been coming in and verbally attacking me, demanding to know what I am going to do to 'protect' our family from such narcissistic people such as my mum and my family and stating that the only way we can stay together is if I cut all ties with my family as it will not work any other way. She said that she really wants us to be the family she always wanted and it will only work if I get on board with it. This is yet another total flip and spin around from ending it all only a couple of days ago.

I am feeling sad about this situation of course, even though I am certainly not reacting anything like I used to. It seems as though she is having a very bad reaction to me not responding as before and has now upped the ante with the scale, timing and method of attack to regain her control of the situation. Being able to see things from a different perspective now I can really see this desire of hers to control everything and I am starting to understand more why she does not like my mother and family as they cannot be controlled like she controls her family to do what she wants. I have been avidly reading and studying many more books and articles suggested by the group, which has been amazing for me so thank you, but now am at a crossroads as to what to do as I really do not like how she is manipulating the kids now.

When I asked why she left the cut up pictures all over the kitchen table as a display for us all to see she started a verbal launch at me again saying isn't she allowed to express her anger how she wants to if I am able to 'storm' off in front of our son then she can express herself how she wants. I said that she can express herself but why leave it out for the kids to see when she could have simply cut them up and put it in the bin. She then screamed at me how dare I suggest such a thing as she does everything for the kids and has sacrificed everything for them. (This is also interesting as she has recently talked my daughter out of doing sports this winter as my wife did not want to be a part of it and did not enjoy watching or hanging out with the really 'pushy' parents. She has also talked my son out of joining the football team he wanted to with his friends as she did not want to deal with the parents there either and wanted him to be in a team where she did not know the parents and therefore they would not expect anything from her).

If it was just myself and my wife I would not have any problems now in moving on with my life and letting her move on with hers. I still love her but I do not like her erratic behaviors and she is too busy blaming everyone else in the world for her feelings. I know that if I do stay, it will only be until the kids are ready to leave if she has not significantly tried to change her behaviors and patterns by then.

I can see that both of my kids are going to be leaving the house as soon as they are able to and I will support them in that but that is still another 4 - 7 years away. I do not know if me making the move to leave now will help them at all as it will leave them with absolutely no buffer to her mood swings and outbursts as I do try to take it away from them as much as I can. I know I am coping much better personally but I am not the only person being impacted here. I know from the other posts that many are in this difficult predicament too.

My difficulty is how best to protect the kids now. I know that my daughter is catching on to my coping strategies and she is getting better at riding the emotional roller coaster waves. My son is not yet as he is younger but I feel I can help him now too. If I move out now I would get some alone time with them but then they would also have a lot of unprotected alone time with my wife as well. In this area I do feel stuck and the thought of them taking her unpredictable and unfettered rages without me to stand in between is a heart breaking thought.

As always, thank you for your time and apologies for the length of my post. I look forward to any suggestions in this.

Take care

Slim70

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Slim-
Hello my friend... .boy it does sound as if things have escalated and I commend you for assuring your children that they have NOTHING to do with your BPD W's rages and increasingly hurtful actions.  But it does appear that she's drawing the kids into her dysfunction hard and fast... .first by really acting out in front of them; second by ripping up photos which DO include images of the children with your family members; and I'll get to the third thing in a bit.

It is so important for your dear children to know that when you (their dad) walk away from curse-filled tirades, it is YOUR RIGHT to do just that.  You are allowed to remove your ears and yourself from situations that are painful and non-productive.  You can explain that respectful behavior, even when there are "disagreements" is always in order.

And now to the meat of the matter... .Slim... .in earlier posts you have only ever alluded to your BPD W ending the marriage later... .in some years when the children are off.  And you have stated the children's desires to move from home when they are able.  I believe this is something to REALLY listen to... .I mean REALLY listen to!

And in this most current post, if I'm reading this properly, this is the first time I see you mention the possibility of YOU moving.  And with this possibility, your deep concerns over leaving the children with exposure to unfettered rages of BPD W.

Slim, you're working hard on calming and strengthening yourself, on implementation of the BPD tools, and BPD W is apparently not reacting well to your new-found serenity.  And she appears pretty steadfast in her refusal to take steps to help herself. 

She is now taking things (activities) AWAY from the children that they WANT to do because SHE doesn't want to be around certain parents.  The effects on the children are increasing and that can be a slippery slope.  Please be mindful about these threats and actions.  It feels the negative impact on their emotional wellbeing is becoming heightened.  At some point just assuring your children that they are "loved and supported" may become empty words. 

So now I must ask... .again, for the first time you have mentioned YOU moving.  If you were to really consider this possibility, is it in the best interests of the children to leave them with her?  Sometimes ALL options must be considered.  BPD W, at least in her latest statements and behaviors, does not appear to be placing the children first.

Please know... .I understand the pain and difficulties of looking at this... .and you have a supportive and loving family from which you can draw strength.  I don't believe you need to assume ANYTHING needs to be one way because "society" or BPD W dictates.  There are other, more important needs here.

Please be still with this for a bit and then... .Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[DaddyBear77]

Hi Slim70!

I'm sorry I didn't notice your story earlier. So much seems so similar to my own story. My mother is almost always the primary target of my uBPDw's rage with absolutely no justification. My wife is extremely talented, yet she has left the workforce entirely because of how stressful it was for her to endure normal interactions with co-workers. She is also extremely concerned with what society thinks of her. We celebrated our 15 year anniversary a few months ago, and we are now very close to ending our marriage.

I have also struggled a LOT with the idea of "what's best for the kids" - in my case, I have one daughter who is 4 and a half years old. My wife's anxieties and issues with societal appearances have already started to limit the activities that my daughter is "allowed" to participate in. I don't see this situation getting any better in the future.

There are lots of different ways of "being there" for your kids. What I've found is that if you do the SAME things, then you'll always deal with the SAME reactions, and nothing will ever change.

Lets take these activities for example - is it important to you that your son plays football? Are winter sports something that you see as important for your daughter? I assume yes. If so, as a parent, in what way could you most effectively ensure that your kids participate in the activities that you (and they) find important? Perhaps it's too late for these activities, but when the next scenario comes around, what can you do to be prepared?

Don't let these times with your kids go by without doing what YOU feel is most important for them. I believe this also applies to things like exposure to the rages and the destruction of photographs.

[Slim70]

Hi All

Thank you for your replies. I certainly do have a lot to consider and as I am coming from a new perspective to my past habits and acceptances as before and I am really seeing things VERY differently.

Whether the winter sports are important to me is not an issue, it is whether they are important to the kids as it is their decisions for their lives that I am trying to encourage. My son will play football for any team but he did want to play with his friends and I may still be able to make this happen and am working on doing so with the club president that I know. My daughter does not seem to be too worried about not playing hockey this season and actually seems now that she was not that keen this year as she has said she wants to work on her fitness and then play in next season and she seems to be happy with that. I will support what decision they make for themselves but I know it is a difficult decision for them with my wife voicing so vocally and regularly her view of the world and how it should all fit in with her so I will keep on talking to them openly and honestly so that they do not fall into my previous patterns of accepting that the behaviours and outbursts are normal and ok from my wife - they are not.

Yes, I am finding myself contemplating the end of the marriage for my own health and sanity as an option as I re-grow my self-respect and self identity that has been gone for a long time. It is not a pleasant thought as I do hold a lot of love for my wife and I am worried about how I can protect the kids, as I have been trying to do for many years. I am aware that they of course have been witnessing me being very submissive and non-vocal to my wife's ongoing demands and emotional outbursts but we have also had many very good times together too, and that is the hard part. A very good quote from one of the many articles and books I have been reading stated that you can't love someone into being a better person, they have to do it for themselves, just as I must change for myself.

In that respect I have started a journal of daily behaviours for me to review after a month or so and really give myself a bigger picture perspective. I also decided to try an experiment the other day to see if I could predict her behaviour after the latest outburst to see if there was anything potentially justifiable about how she was reacting - yes I know how that sounds but I do try to see the good in her. Unfortunately she reacted exactly as all of my recent books and articles I have been reading predicted that she would.

When I arrived home on Monday she was at the sink washing the dishes very slowly (already odd as we did not have any guests at the house that day) and as I greeted her she replied to me in a low but aggressive tone demanding to know what I had done that day to 'address the issue of my mother'. I said I had not done anything as I was at work and she said she knew I would be avoiding the issue as I always do and insisted that I email my mother immediately to tell her just how controlling and demanding her invitations were and how much they affected me and my family (my wife and my kids). I had predicted that she would ask me to do something like this and I had actually rung my mum earlier in the day when I was at work to say that she could probably expect a very strange message either from my phone or email account and requested that whatever it was, not to respond and I will discuss with her later in private as to what was going on.

I agreed to write the email and started writing it, waiting to see if my wife would demand to hear or see what was being said before I sent it or, even more likely, offer to 'improve' the email to address the 'real' issues that I never deal with or really understand. Sure enough, within 1 minute of me starting to type the email, she asked to hear what was being typed. She then started dictating 'improvements' to the email to really 'address the issues properly' and had me read the email again and again several times until she was happy that it covered everything. I was agreeable to all of this as I was most interested in watching her behaviour throughout my experiment and the next part was the real kicker for me. I said I was going to send the email and turned away to look down at my phone as I pressed send but as I pressed send I watched her reflection in the window to see her smiling behind me... .When I turned around to say I had sent it she was not smiling but calmly drying her hands - dishes still in sink, unfinished - and walked off towards the lounge room where she started to interact and joke with my daughter i.e. the black cloud had lifted in an instant and the sun was shining through. Everything was all smiles and hugs and how about we all go to the pool for a swim and what is dad going to cook us for dinner tonight - the usual.

To say I had mixed emotions about this is an understatement as I feel I had a real epiphany moment. It is one thing to read about BPD and BND and other things but to actually catch my wife, consciously or unconsciously, displaying the EXACT behaviours that I have been reading about, given my higher awareness now was both heartbreaking and strangely calming. I do realise that I am making positive changes and will continue to make positive changes to and for myself and my life and if she is or is not a part of that going forward  that is no longer my responsibility (not that it ever should have been but that is the role I have been doing). I have even received a call from my mother-in-law yesterday offering me assistance for myself and the kids if I need it as she was embarrassed by my wife's actions on the weekend, and my mother-in-law only caught the end of it as we left.

My kids, however, are definitely my responsibility and this is where the future actions and implications of my decisions now are focused, including on myself. I can see that it is highly likely that any split will not go amicably so I must look at all of the options to consider, including staying for the kids but standing my grounds and setting my boundaries going forward. One option I am also considering now which I have never considered previously is me leaving the relationship with her but how to do this and take care of the kids I will be considering very carefully and not enter into lightly. This is the area that I am now focusing more on, how to protect my kids as I start to implement changes to the relationship.

Thank you to Gemsforeyes and all who have offered your words of support, advice and open honesty - it really is amazing and I truly appreciate it. Knowing you are not alone is incredible and I offer my sincerest regards and best wishes to you all.

As DaddyBear77 has very correctly stated, if I do the same things then I will always deal with the same reactions.

Change is now coming. I don't know where that will end up but it will be better for all of us in the long run.

Love to all

Slim70

[DaddyBear77]

Wow, Slim70, that's really great that you were able to see this from such a perspective. It's taken me a long time to see that the behaviors and patterns are predictable. This site was one of the keys.

To that end, let me add something to that pile. I've warned my mother several times that a strange phone call, text message, or e-mail was about to come through. My wife has stood over my shoulder, "improved" many e-mails, and also dramatically changed her outlook once these missiles were fired. I know that dance WAY too well.

I can also tell you that this conflict and the drama it creates is one of the main reasons our relationship has deteriorated so much. In retrospect, I can tell you I wish I had found the strength to stand up for what I really believed was right. Instead of calling my parents to warn them, I wish I had found some way to turn to my wife and just say "No! I don't agree with your assessment that my mother was controlling and demanding, and I am not going to address this with my mother. If you have something you'd like to say to her, please communicate with her directly." Trust me, I know exactly how frightening and scary it is to even THINK about the consequences of saying something like that. But imagine the powerful statement it would make, and how good you might feel, to just stand up for what you actually believe and say that? I don't know if it's something you'd even consider possible, and I don't honestly know if I could do it even today, but I still wish I had tried.

In regards to my future, like you, I've realized my 4 year old daughter and myself are the top priorities. There's nothing I can do to "fix" BPD or NPD, but there's a LOT I can do to fix myself and make a good future for my daughter with a strong father to support her.

I'm pulling for you, Slim70. I think you're on the right track.

[so_overit]

Hi Slim, I don't have a ton to offer... .I read all three pages of your post and related to so much of it. My ex husband (official 2/14 this year) exhibited so much of the same behaviors as you have described with your wife. Especially the parts about expecting all to be super clean all while being sloppy. Weird. We were married 12 years. He hid his issues (except depression) really well, it was not until kids came into the mix 6 years ago that triggered all of his issues, which turned to rage against me, and my beautiful girls.

I can't imagine how you must feel knowing you might want out but that would possibly leave your kids at risk. I had to leave the relationship after years of trying to 'help fix him' because I finally faced what would become of my twins (almost 7) if I stayed in the marriage. I hate the position of having to protect them against the wolf. Turning against vows I made to one person who turned out to be someone else entirely.

I am sure if I was in the other position, where I was the husband and my wife was doing all this, I would stay just to protect the kids. I took a lot of risks to end my marriage, and took a lot of rage and aggression - once he knew I wanted out,  he ramped it WAY up, even proclaiming he had "nothing to lose now, so watch out".

I wish I could give you anymore help, as I'm still learning about all of this too.

Good luck with all you are doing. You are your kids superhero. You have to protect them, as that stability you can give during the rollercoaster rides is surely needed.

[Slim70]

Hi Everybody

Short update so far. Things have settled down dramatically over the last few weeks with a few exceptions that have become quite amusing to observe.

Firstly, the ranting email that was sent to my mum that I had requested my mum not respond to has ended up with my wife checking with me at least 1 - 2 times every day as to whether there had been any response to date. When she was not getting any response she started having a go at her own mum and brother who both did the same thing and did not respond (I have been speaking to all of them and providing some understanding and education into BPD). This left my wife wondering what to do as her usual baits were not hooking anyone. Her  mum remained neutral to the attacking-style messages and her brother just replied as if the message had not been sent and invited us to visit. My wife has taken to longer and longer sessions on the lounge room couch, immersed in her phone and having a go at some of her friends as she was getting very agitated at others not playing her game anymore.

Secondly, I am now spending more 1 on 1 quality time with each of my kids by taking them out for some exercise and talking openly to them about any topic they wish to discuss and this has been really good. When my wife started another rant about the 'mess' in the kitchen the other day, both my kids politely pointed out that all of the mess but 1 item were hers such as banana peels, breakfast bowls with milk going off, gym towel, wrappers, etc. She then looked at me with a glare and seemed rather embarrassed as she was now caught in her own rantings at her own mess with no way of refuting it. I just smiled and asked if she would like a hand clearing away her rubbish and she said yes very softly and walked back to the lounge room couch. Later that day she then went to our bedroom and actually put away the clothes and cleaned up the mess that had been covering the room for the last few months without any comments to anyone else.

I know this may seem trivial to some but this is HUGE in our house. I complemented her on the tidy space and said that it feels really nice and she seemed happy with that. While I am noting signs that a meltdown event could be coming soon, we are in a relatively stable run at the moment and the kids are certainly more relaxed, as am I. 

Thanks to the guidance I have received here and through the literature I have been reading I have been able to cope in a way i have never before been able to do. It will be interesting when the next big meltdown event comes along for her as to how all of us will now deal with it.

Sending best wishes to all.

Slim70


 

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Slim-

This is so GREAT to hear!  You truly are your kids' superhero, and your own personal savior as well.  You have many reasons to hold your head high, eyes toward the stars, just in this short period of  beginning your self-care.

And I believe the fact that you're sharing your knowledge with adult family members seems to be a good thing in this case.  Maybe in time your wife will see no option other than to look at herself.  We can hope, right?

But in the absence of her "awakening", please do your best to continue on your path toward strength and happiness with your children.  You will all be rewarded and your bond with your beloved children will continue to grow.  Under these tough circumstances, No one could ask for more.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Cromwell]

Hi Slim,

I would seek professional advice about safeguarding of financial assets and the laws that center around divorce and infidelity. Also what impact divorce might have on custody for your children. I would emotionally prepare myself for what I believe is her preparing the groundwork for cheating on you again and might already have someone of interest she seeks to triangulate against you with. Do not allow her to erode any sources of support you may need as helpeful witnesses - anyone she might see as supportive to you or able to see through her plans will be painted black and hated, these are your most important allies, do not "prove your love" by cutting them away. She also might start to ramp her unaccceptable behaviour in their presence hoping that they push you out of their lives.

Today she is cutting up the kids pictures, tomorrow what next?

They get an andrenaline kick out of the chaos they make, anything to be the center of attention and to pressure test you.

 it reads like some sort of stockholm syndrome survivor of 15 years, still walking on eggshells having to think in advance every thing he says or does might set a trigger off. Truth is from my experience, when you are painted black, they are so over engulfed by their irrationality of hatred that anything you do is wrong. you will never win against any of this.

It feels difficult to give you advice, I think to myself how long you have been with this person, had children with them. In comparison I have had a rollercoaster 3 year ride but I think my advise is something I would apply for any relationship, it is important to try and set out all the emotional side of things and focus on some sort of practical, disaster management planning. I dont think you would be posting here if you werent unsettled subconsciously to the extent that you are seeking some outside insight. I truly believe all the flags are there that she is planning to cheat on you again, if she hasnt done so already, but at the same time she has it comfortable idle lifestyle with you and needs to figure out how to have the best of both worlds and also not be caught out as the wrong one. Wait until she designs the situation that she had to run off into someone elses arms to protect her from the abusive controlling husband, this I believe is where a lot of the crazy making provocation comes where she is trying to bait you to respond aggressively.

Cromwell

[Slim70]

Thank you Gemsforeyes.

I will always live in hope but I am not responsible for what she eventually does or does not decide to do. Thanks to you and all on this site who have provided amazing support and wonderful advice at a time that I was truly, absolutely, utterly mentally exhausted and completely lost!

I am careful with who I am talking to about the subject of BPD and some I do not mention BPD at all but discuss some coping strategies for when my wife may be exhibiting signs of being 'stressed out'.

Excellent points and advice also from Cromwell and the ideas you have correctly stated have certainly crossed my mind. I am taking precautions now to stay connected to those that I need to if this does head down the repeat pathway that she has been down before. As sad as that would be I am also prepared to deal with it and face that possibility now and know it will work out for the best for me and my kids should she choose that direction again. I thank you for your concern and advice.

Yes, while many of my actions do still seem to be like I am walking on eggshells (and some still is to a point), I have a direction and purpose now that gives me a strength and confidence in myself that I have not had in many, many years. I am loving my personal growth and adventure now and yes, being an eternal optimist, I would love to continue the adventure with my wife who I have shared many a wonderful time with in the past, but she is no longer the key to my happiness. If this is what she would like to do with me that would be fantastic (with different ground rules about behaviour and boundaries), if not I will continue to thrive.

Wishing everyone all the very best on their own personal journey's.

Slim70