Am I really that big of a failure?

[Venti]

It has been almost three months since I was dumped. It was an 8 month relationship and I did not see this breakup coming. We texted that night after it was all said and done, she said she was dreading to see me like that and we exchanged a few more messages before she fell asleep, then sent me one more text the next morning which I read but didn't respond and we haven't talked since. My mind is driving me crazy with what if's and now I am dealing with seeing her on bumble and throwing little jabs at me on social media such as "Invest in those who invest in you" and "looking for someone who is passionate" and this stings, it opened up some wounds that I am now dealing with.

She is undiagnosed but exhibits a multitude of symptoms. I guess I am just looking for reassurance that I am in fact not insane and not 100% reliable for her outbursts and the breakup

She has a very dark past relating to divorce (parents), infidelity (parents/herself), abusive relationships (her's and her family) and suicide (high school boyfriend)

It was very intense from the beginning. The sex was out of this world and I am still trying to deal with the fact that I don't think I'll ever find someone to match that intensity. I have hooked up with a few women but it felt empty, not passionate and made me feel worse so scratch that rebound idea.

She would pick fights, I would never argue back but my dumb self would try to use logic (LOL) to help ease the situation and get her back to her fun loving self. Some of the blowout fights include:
- I yawned at 1am and she freaked out at me
- I parked outside the city to meet her in the city and she took it as me not wanting to see her. Then on the way home accused me of cheating after I deleted the uber drivers text at 2am
- Would yell at me, say she felt uncomfortable and me being in her home, I would leave only for her to call 5 minutes later crying for me to come back
- Talking with her best friends boyfriend while she was talking to her best friend was seen as me ignoring her/me not being myself. She made us leave early because she felt uncomfortable because of it and then yelled at me. Even calling me gay
- She took a picture in a crowded movie and the flash went off. I simply said "Jesus" and she gave me the silent treatment for 3 hours, later telling me how judgemental and rude I am
- Left our friends group after 5 hours of day drinking to get some fresh air and she got pissed because I didn't bring her outside with me (I was gone 10 minutes) that caused a huge fight

On top of that she always thought I was judgemental, she said we never talked enough even though we texted throughout the day (10+) a phone call once a week and would see each a few times a week (she was busy studying for her licensing exams)

During the breakup talk she said I wasn't myself anymore and she was right, I've been walking on egg shells for so long I lost who I was. I was trying to cater to her so these fights wouldn't happen but that failed obviously. I never stopped courting her, doing nice things, giving her massages (I'm a massage therapist) and the chivalry never died but I guess it wasn't good enough.

During the breakup talk all we talked about was what I did wrong and I truly believe I am the most worthless piece of sh** to walk this earth. I have no more self confidence/worth and I don't know how to get that back. Everything always seemed to be my fault, I am always the reason for her outbursts because of how "terrible" I am and now I am worried this will carry over into my other relationships when the time comes to get in one.

I have read some great articles on here about breaking up with a pwBPD/getting your self worth back but if anyone has any more please please send them to me.

A big part of this is that she is undiagnosed. I know you cant help me with that but its the "what if" part that really really bothers me.

Sorry for the long introduction. I am looking forward to my long stay on this board. You guys/girls are very much appreciated for sharing your stories.

[once removed]

hi Venti and

youre right that we cant diagnose anyone, though take comfort that most of our exes are undiagnosed, we have a great deal in common, im confident many members including myself can relate to your experience(s) and that you will fit right in.

it does sound like she was highly sensitive, probably had low self esteem, and tended to read in/ascribe negative motives to you (which can be a form of projection). thats no picnic, and does tend to lend itself to walking on eggshells.

I have read some great articles on here about breaking up with a pwBPD/getting your self worth back but if anyone has any more please please send them to me.

one of the best of advice i read and see often here is to not only get back to your old hobbies/skills but to learn new ones. that really raises the ol confidence levels. you can do anything, like taking a class, practicing photography, writing, cooking, working out. its all not only confidence building but therapeutic. let me personally recommend the skills we teach here (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=36.0). theyve made me more confident about myself, my dealings with others, and my dating future than ive ever been in my life.

and of course make yourself at home in the community. there are countless benefits to a support group.

its the "what if" part that really really bothers me.

what are some of the what ifs youre struggling with? also how did you come to learn about BPD?

[blooming]

Hi Venti! Welcome!

Your story sounds so familiar, it's almost like I could have written it. I am sorry you're going through this and I guess that when I say I know how you feel, I truly do.

Like you I am new to this forum, new to this hurting, still very much in the early stages after the break up and feeling like I have no self esteem left. Feeling like I did everything wrong, like I walked on egg shells for such a long time etc etc

So I'm not sure I can give you any advice, but I'm sure some of the other lovely folk here can help you. I just wanted to reply to your message to let you know that you're not alone and that you're at the right place now. Hang in there, things will get better, I know they will.

Do you have friends and family with whom you can talk about all this? It really helps me to discuss my exes behaviour with my friends and family, because they don't look at it through our heart-shaped glasses and they can make you wake up and realise that what our exes did to us was wrong and that we're not to blame. Seeing them is also a nice distraction from all the hurt you are feeling.

[Venti]

it does sound like she was highly sensitive, probably had low self esteem, and tended to read in/ascribe negative motives to you (which can be a form of projection). thats no picnic, and does tend to lend itself to walking on eggshells.

what are some of the what ifs youre struggling with? also how did you come to learn about BPD?

I have a tendency to smile and do a little laugh when I think something is cute which I would do with her but she always would take it in a negative way even though I told her many times I'm not laughing at her, its just a way I express love. I now understand the projection theory and absolutely believe it, she was projecting her issues onto me and the things that people have done to her in the past onto me as well. Was there any way around this?

It was by complete coincidence. I'm a massage therapist and one of my clients mentioned how she divorced her significant other who was diagnosed with BPD. I inquired more about it after she started talking about the symptoms and I was blown away. I did more and more research and she fit the criteria in my mind.

The what if's include:
What if she doesn't have BPD and I truly could have done something about these issues to make the relationship work

What if I responded to her temper tantrums and doubts that I didn't love her with reassurance and catering to her emotional needs instead of using logic to prove to her that I did love her and to help calm her down during a tantrum/feel reassured

[once removed]

Was there any way around this?

the short answer is no. people with BPD traits can be hypersensitive to body language and non verbal cues and read into them what may not be there. sure there are ways of managing conflict when it arises, but there are no tricks to have changed how she experienced them. that would take a great deal of practice on her end, with concepts like mindfulness.

im sure you and i both have maybe, for example, thought we received a dirty look, when we in fact received no such thing, and we were able to shrug it off and remind ourselves that we were speculating. with someone with a great deal of sensitivity and insecurity like that, feelings lead to conclusions, and facts in ones mind, and they have their basis in how that person feels about themselves.

It was by complete coincidence. I'm a massage therapist and one of my clients mentioned how she divorced her significant other who was diagnosed with BPD. I inquired more about it after she started talking about the symptoms and I was blown away. I did more and more research and she fit the criteria in my mind.

it was by coincidence for me too. my ex was diagnosed bipolar, and i was googling things, and incorrectly abbreviated "bipolar disorder" as "BPD". its really indescribable to find out that there is a name for it, research and explanations, and to discover that we arent alone in going through it, no?

The what if's include:
What if she doesn't have BPD and I truly could have done something about these issues to make the relationship work

i think many of us go through this. in fact theres a thread about it on this board right now.

ill be frank with you about a few things: the majority of exes here are undiagnosed (mine included) and would not receive a diagnosis, but have traits, even very pronounced traits, and are extraordinarily difficult people. i think that is important to know, because i know i really went down a rabbit hole attributing everything that occurred in my relationship to BPD and looking for confirmation of it. its somewhat natural to do, but its important to remember this is a spectrum disorder.

having said that, i will reiterate that what you relate of your story fits right in here. knowledge of BPD can be a real gift, and answer a lot of questions, if we use it wisely. many find that overtime, confirmation of a diagnosis matters less than the behaviors they experienced and how they were effected, and knowledge of BPD can really inform that and help us better understand.

What if I responded to her temper tantrums and doubts that I didn't love her with reassurance and catering to her emotional needs instead of using logic to prove to her that I did love her and to help calm her down during a tantrum/feel reassured

well Venti, i can tell you that we do teach tools and skills to better relationships with our partners here, and their focus is on our actions. i can also tell you they are no panacea, and im a firm believer that there is no tool, skill, or trick, or set of them, that can force any relationship to "work".

in your personal situation, reassurance and catering to her emotional needs were not going to cure her of her insecurity, perspective, or change her in general; its also quite an ordeal to keep up. we cant really love a person enough to change them. extreme jealousy was a stickler in my relationship. there were things i did that made it worse. there were things i did that made it better. there were things i didnt do that i could have done and things i did do that would have been better not to do. but i was never going to be able to change the fact that she was frequently, irrationally, and extremely jealous, and it was a big problem for me.

all of this is a long winded way of saying dont beat yourself up. asking what ifs is common, and they should be worked through as they come up, but its very unlikely that there was a singular "mistake" that if you could take it back, would have saved the relationship.

what led to the breakup? who initiated it?

[Lucky Jim]

During the breakup talk all we talked about was what I did wrong and I truly believe I am the most worthless piece of sh** to walk this earth. I have no more self confidence/worth and I don't know how to get that back. Everything always seemed to be my fault, I am always the reason for her outbursts because of how "terrible" I am and now I am worried this will carry over into my other relationships when the time comes to get in one.

Hey Venti, Welcome!  No, you're not a failure or a terrible person.  Those w/BPD will attempt to shift responsibility for their issues to the Non, in order to avoid taking responsibility for their own problems.  In other words, they will use blame to get it off their plate and onto yours.  Your task is to decline to catch the blame "football."  Poison is harmless if you don't ingest it! 

LuckyJim

[MeandThee29]

During the breakup talk all we talked about was what I did wrong and I truly believe I am the most worthless piece of sh** to walk this earth. I have no more self confidence/worth and I don't know how to get that back. Everything always seemed to be my fault, I am always the reason for her outbursts because of how "terrible" I am and now I am worried this will carry over into my other relationships when the time comes to get in one.

Well, it hurts, but it's also just talk.

Mine left a few months before our silver anniversary and was saying things like this:

 --- I pity any man who comes after me. You're a completely messed up wife.
 --- No one likes you. You're going to die alone in a hospital.
 --- You've never pleased me in our entire marriage.
 --- You never did make me #1 like you are supposed to.

When I told those things to my counsellor, she nearly spit out the water she was drinking. All a bunch of crock.

Don't believe them. Part of the BPD/NPD profile is that they try to destroy those they discard.

[Venti]

Do you have friends and family with whom you can talk about all this? It really helps me to discuss my exes behaviour with my friends and family, because they don't look at it through our heart-shaped glasses and they can make you wake up and realise that what our exes did to us was wrong and that we're not to blame. Seeing them is also a nice distraction from all the hurt you are feeling.

Thanks! And I do but I don't want to be a burden with them, constantly talking about it. I feel more comfortable talking here than I do with them. I do hang out with them as much as possible. I tend to wake up early and go to work, then stay out of the house doing something else for as long as possible .

the short answer is no. people with BPD traits can be hypersensitive to body language and non verbal cues and read into them what may not be there. sure there are ways of managing conflict when it arises, but there are no tricks to have changed how she experienced them. that would take a great deal of practice on her end, with concepts like mindfulness.

And to me that is frustrating. I would always be managing conflicts instead of not having to worry about them arising all the time over minuscule things. It's frustrating because I feel I got distracted trying to manage the outbursts rather than being able to focus all my love on her.

i think that is important to know, because i know i really went down a rabbit hole attributing everything that occurred in my relationship to BPD and looking for confirmation of it. its somewhat natural to do, but its important to remember this is a spectrum disorder.

I'm looking for confirmation I suppose for my feeling on this matter. It just feels natural since I belived her every time she blamed me for an argument and I really want to be able to blame it on something else

what led to the breakup? who initiated it?

She did. She was taking licensing exams in st.louis (we live in PA) so she had to fly there for a week, then came back, then flew out again the next week and that is when she did a flip on me.
Everything was fine during that time she was back home, no fights or anything. Took her to a drive in movie theater, sushi, hung out and she had a great time. The week she came back she told me how happy she was that I wasn't constantly checking up on her, being needy/jealous. Some of her peers were having that issue with their girlfriends so she was grateful that I wasn't like that.

Her field is dominated by men so it was her and 15 other guys. They would go out and drink/party after the classroom. They even crashed a wedding in the hotel. One night we were facetiming after she got done studying and was happy to be done for the night when someone knocked on the door. She hung up then called back (not facetime on this call) a minute later saying that they were all getting together to study again. This is the only time I think she may have cheated on me. (it was 11pm)

Little did I know was that Friday is the day her highschool boyfriend committed suicide after they both left for freshman year in different colleges. It was the anniversary, she still has flowers from his funeral on her nightstand next to her bed.

She never told me the date of when it happened and she made no mention of it when we were talking that day. Four days later she broke up with me. She said we were bad at communicating (mainly about my job. I told her everything I knew that was going on since I just started but it wasn't enough for her for some reason... I think she was upset that I wasn't making that much money), she didn't get my humor, she thought I was very judgmental, we never talked that much and that I didn't ask her what was wrong that Friday on the aniversary. She also said our relationship wasn't getting any easier. Which in my mind it should have been easy from the beginning. How she talked to her 6 best friends about us to see if she’s dumb for wanting to breakup but at the same time how I make her so happy and how I'm so good to her yet she wants to breakup.

The day after the split she posted a picture of herself infront of the company sign and wrote a literal paragraph on how she misses her deceased boyfriend, how much he meant to her, that everything she did/accomplished was because of him.

[once removed]

I do but I don't want to be a burden with them, constantly talking about it. I feel more comfortable talking here than I do with them. I do hang out with them as much as possible. I tend to wake up early and go to work, then stay out of the house doing something else for as long as possible .

i get that, and its thoughtful of you. friends and family may not always understand, and can say the wrong thing, or simply not know what to say. i hope, though, that you have people in your life that you can lean on for emotional support. hanging out and having good company does go a long way, i know.

additionally, have you considered seeing a therapist? comes highly recommended around here.

And to me that is frustrating. I would always be managing conflicts instead of not having to worry about them arising all the time over minuscule things. It's frustrating because I feel I got distracted trying to manage the outbursts rather than being able to focus all my love on her.

i think this is valid. it doesnt sound like the relationship fit your model of what a relationship should be.

I'm looking for confirmation I suppose for my feeling on this matter. It just feels natural since I belived her every time she blamed me for an argument and I really want to be able to blame it on something else

understandable. no one is responsible for 100% of the problems or arguments in a relationship, it just isnt realistic. you dont need a diagnosis of anything to lean into that, and to let go of what doesnt belong to you.

yet, neither did what i just said do anything to take away the real feelings of unfairness, injustice, and blame that youre dealing with, i know. that will dissipate as you work through it. as susan anderson describes in her book the journey from abandonment to healing (which i recommend: https://bpdfamily.com/book-reviews/journey-from-abandonment-to-healing) she puts forward what she calls the stages of abandonment (like the stages of grief). she describes two of them this way:

INTERNALIZING--You Internalize the rejection and cause Injury to your self-esteem. This is the most critical stage of the cycle when your wound becomes susceptible to Infection and can create permanent scarring. You are Isolated, riddled with Insecurity, self- Indictment and self-doubt. You are preoccupied with ‘If only regrets’--If only you had been more attentive, more sensitive, less demanding, etc. You beat yourself up with regrets over the relationship and Idealize your abandoner at the expense of your own self-Image.

ANGER--The turning point in the grief process when you begin to fight back. You attempt to Reverse the Rejection by Refusing to accept all of the blame for the failed relationship, and feel surges of Anger against your Abandoner. You Rail against the pain and isolation you’ve been in. Agitated depression and spurts of Anger displaced on your friends and family are common during this turbulent time, as are Revenge and Retaliation fantasies toward your Abandoner.

in other words, what you are experiencing is natural, and you can get to the other side.

as for the breakup, the words "yikes" and "ouch" and "GEEZ" come to mind. it sounds like she pretty much put the blame on you then, too. 

it also sounds like a lot was on her mind leading up to it, the likes of which you couldnt begin to answer to and doesnt reflect on you.

[ynwa]

Hey There Venti.   I want to clarify something you said early on.  You are definitely NOT INSANE.  Stop thinking of yourself in such labels.  You have been through a rough time, a relationship that has ended, and you are working through it in a healthy and honest way. It is NOT easy.  So in the face of that, be easy on yourself.

We look for answers when a relationship fails.  Yours failed.  And there were TWO of you in it.  But from your descriptions which seem honest and real. NOT CRAZY, you saw someone who may have traits of BPD or simply has issues with her emotions.  

If you read back your posts,  ask yourself if it was a friend or loved one, would you want them to deal with that?
Would you want to?  Because people do not change.  They can adjust, they can learn, but they do not easily change.  

On the right hand side of this post are the 5 stages of Detachment, which I read over a few times a week.  Its hard, and its not the best answer for you.

This will take time.  It will not be easy.  You obviously care for this person.  We dont tell people to get out or stay in relationships on the board.  BUT... . read back and see what you have already written.   It is right there.

You are taking the right steps in getting yourself back.  Understanding and Acceptance.  

What you are feeling, and going through is REAL.  Your confusion, your need to understand are all things we ALL on this board have gone through, and for people like myself are STILL going through.  Feeling responsible for someone else's feelings, Valid or Not, is something we come to believe is part of a relationship.  but it is not.  We are only responsible for our own actions. 

and that is something i want to end with.   Her WORDS, more than likely never seemed to match her ACTIONS right?  She never made things better? or if she did it was half-hearted?  You did though?  You may have found yourself apologizing for something she did or said?

[once removed]

hows it going today Venti?

[Venti]

If you read back your posts,  ask yourself if it was a friend or loved one, would you want them to deal with that?
Would you want to?  Because people do not change.  They can adjust, they can learn, but they do not easily change.  

This will take time.  It will not be easy.  You obviously care for this person.  We dont tell people to get out or stay in relationships on the board.  BUT... . read back and see what you have already written.   It is right there.

and that is something i want to end with.   Her WORDS, more than likely never seemed to match her ACTIONS right?  She never made things better? or if she did it was half-hearted?  You did though?  You may have found yourself apologizing for something she did or said?

I definitely would not want my friends to be in a relationship like that. It's funny, on another forum someone said if there was no romantic involvement with this person would you be friends with this person?

And my answer is no. I wouldn't want to be friends with this person because of what I know, except of course she doesn't show these symptoms towards her friends or family so there is that.

I definitely don't want to be with her after reading everything I wrote all over the support groups on the internet, I'm just fighting an addiction now. I always tried to make things better, she never did. I was always apologizing for something she did or said to me, she always turned everything against me, playing the victim role.


I'm doing ok Once Removed, I am in the anger stage that you quoted from susan anderson's book and it is definitely helping haha. I'm in a coffee shop now and I am 90% sure I just saw one of her friends sitting across the room. We made eye contact but didn't say anything. I care so much about what people think about me that now it's eating me up that I didn't simply say hi to her, and that I wonder if she is going to say anything to my ex. Such a silly thing. I wanted to text her Saturday night but simply wrote what I wanted to say in my notes on my phone and deleted it.
"I miss you. I still love you"

I'm currently looking for co-dependency books/support groups
 

[ynwa]

Co-dependency no more is a great book.

The adult chair is a great podcast.

Sounds like your headed in a good direction.

Keep posting and keep in mind that a lot of what you are feeling from others is projection unless you actually hear it from them.  :)on’t worry about it too much.  You will move out of the noise and fog soon enough