What To Do When PD Parent Calls & Lies To Adult Services/Etc?

[Rock Chick]

My bf's malignant BPD etc mother called Adult Services on my bf/her son yesterday. My bf got a msg left on his cellphone from Adult Services while he was at work. He has taken good to very good care of her despite her being mentally emotionally verbally abusive etc towards him (and towards myself, etc) over the yrs. As well as when he became her official part part time caregiver in October of 2014 threw dhs. DHS pays him to do very basic stuff for her a few hrs a week to few days a week. Despite there being nothing physically wrong with her that prevents her from doing basic things (making sure food in house, light light cleaning, making sure she has her pills, etc) for herself. Things that we have seen her do over and over and over threw the yrs to now by herself with no assistance. She started drinking at an early age (probably off an on between 11 to 17 and then beyond that to now is when she has had problems and become an alcoholic with only a lil time here and there of not drinking). Anyways yesterday and later half of the day before that my bfs BPDm started blowing up my bfs cellphone with 30+ calls, texts and voice mail msgs. We knew when it reached past a certain number that she was drinking cuz the amount of communication and time between each becomes more frequent and in shorter time between. Well thats just one way we know. We have told her before these last few days that we don't like that she drinks (her primary care doctor doesn't like it either and has asked her to stop several time ( and who after my bfs mother spent a trip to a 4 day psychiatric hold at the mental portions of our local hospital earlier this month prescribed her pills to take that will make her throw up when alcohol is in her system amongst other things) and that we all are concerned. She got upset and raging yesterday and the day before when my bf did finally pick up the cellphone and she started cursing at him, telling him he is gonna lose, that she hates me and him (well at one pt in msgs), that he is a horrible caregiver, he is lazy, she hates him, everything is all his fault or mostly, etc etc. We tried to stick to our boundaries that both my bf and I have set. We don't answer every call when someone blows up our cell esp when they speak to us the way his mother has and treats us like she has and goes gets drunk etc. He only picked up twice in hopes it would stop the calls. He told her something like or to effect 'mom when you drink esp. to pt of becoming drunk I will not pick up the phone nor be around you when you do. Please seek help'.  When she drinks she has been known to come at ppl in the past. So we don't always feel its in our best interest to be around her at these times. Anyways she started drinking while at her apartment then when that wasn't enough she got in the car with a stranger and they dropped her off at a pub where she proceeded to drink even more. We were still try to keep our boundaries going and not cave and give her what she wanted whatever it was. Then about 12.30am or a lil after 1 she tells my bf to come get her and take her home. He tells her he cant so she gets annoyed etc by this and tells my bf to call the cop with the funny hat to come pick her up then to take her home. He told her he cant do that its not a cops job to be ppls taxi. So then after a very short time she calls screaming in a raging angry kinda scary sounding way dropping tons of f bombs and telling him he is gonna lose and he better come get her or else etc etc. He held his boundary and kept us safe by not doing what she said and we ignored the calls. She could of called herself a cab they run all hours from what I understand. So after all the stuff she leaves a msg in the morning how she supposedly knows its her fault she drank and she made a bunch of excuses etc but then still said she was very angry with him esp. cuz he didn't come get her (the pub btw is not in a bad part of town its in a very safe good area). So we think things might be calming down now cuz the alcohol is probably out her system etc. Well thats when while at work (he worked 10 to 7pm) he gets a msg left by Adult Services or whatever its called and they wanna talk to him because his mother (or someone) called them about him. So now even though he has done nothing wrong and he treats her good he is getting this call from A.S. and we are worried of what may happen.

So I am posting wanting to know have others experienced the same or similar? Has your mentally ill parent (rather addicted to alcohol or not) ever called Adult Services etc on you? What happened? How did you handle it and how should my bf handle it? Will he get in trouble despite not doing anything wrong and his mother lying to Adult Services? What can we do to protect ourselves? Will A.S. just ask him whats going on and mention that they got a report or something then be like okay sorry we took up your time and then ignore his mother?  I'm not good at wording and expressing so I hope everyone reading will understand.

[HappyChappy]

So sorry to hear your mother in law is putting you both through this. It sounds like your hubby has not done anything wrong here, so I wouldn’t worry. If you don’t know you are going to be someone, how can you plan for it ? Typically people have a couple of drinks in the evening and can’t drive.  

I would imagine Adult Services are well aware of this sort of manipulation, and have plenty of experience of it. But they have a duty of undertaking, because it involved a vulnerable adult. So if they do enquire, you will probably just need to explain things.  I would recommend you collect evidence to support your defence. I’m afraid the only way to guard against these types of false accusation is to cut ties. Maybe this is the excuse you were waiting for ? Failing that, evidence everything.

Dealing with BPD is tough, but add in alcohol, that must be even tougher. If someone emotionally manipulates, you could argue that would be harder to do with a complete stranger. Your BPD wouldn’t know their triggers for a start. It also occurs that denial keeps people drinking and BPD are really good at denial. So once you’ve batted away this particular supposition whats the long term plan ?

[Rock Chick]

I'm low to minimal contact with her if my bf would make the choice to cut ties id have nothing to do with her because she is so toxic n more. Since she doesn't respect my boundaries and does stuff anyways i don't pick up the cell when she calls etc 99% the time. I even Block her number at times or get ring tone for her number to a silent one. My bf tries to ignore calls too but when she calls 5, 10, 20, 30 times its too much for him n he picks up hoping she will leave him alone then. He was once asked if she wasnt your mom would you have anything to do with her. He said no. So I think with therapy and dealing eith depression he has maybe soon he will be to cut ties with her. Idk. We have kept some of the text voicemails she has sent and we journal about things to keep track. Im not sure what else can do. Its just tough situation. I think long term plan is to cut her out our lives but bf has to get to or where he has enough courage to do so and actually do it. I think right now he worries too much about what will happen to her and will she get worse if we cut ties n if she will come after us. Idk.

[Panda39]

Hi Rock Chick,

Many of the folks on the Co-Parenting and Legal boards could identify with your boyfriend.  Many have experienced false allegations of abuse both to the spouse and to the children by their soon to be ex or ex spouses.  Your BF is most definitely not alone when it comes to lies about him and false allegations.

Your BF is lucky to have you in his life you are able to see his mother from a perspective different than his.  It can be hard for someone raised by someone with BPD to negotiate this stuff with a parent because they could have learned behaviors that benefit or make the person with BPD more comfortable.  For example boundaries might be hard for your boyfriend in terms of his mother because he may have learned to just let her have what she wants to keep her happy... .keep the chaos and drama down.

Calling protective services does a couple of things in my mind, it ups the drama... .the attention on her, because negative attention is still attention.  It could also be a form of FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) or emotional blackmail.  She seems to be wielding all three in terms of keeping her son engaged with her.  It sounds like he his providing this care out of a sense of Obligation, would be made to feel Guilty if he discontinued, and now she is bringing Fear into the situation by threatening him through Protective Services.

This also creates a ":)rama Triangle" where she is the "Victim", your BF is the "Persecutor", and Protective Services is the "Rescuer".  Again this dynamic ups the drama and chaos.

More on FOG... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

More on the Karpman Drama Triangle
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0

In terms of what your BF does now, he needs to protect himself. He might consider recording his visits to his mother's home, some members have apps on their phones that allow them to do this when things are starting to escalate.  Sometimes knowing they are being recorded is enough to deter negative behavior, in other situations these recordings can break the "he said" "she said" with the police when they are called.  But know that each state has different rules about whether or not these recording would be admissible in court.

But do you really want to go to the extreme of recording these visits? 

Recording is one option, creating boundaries is another option, pulling out of the care giver role is another option, getting some kind of assistance in terms of care taking is another option etc.

Not being her care taker does not mean that he has to cut her out of his life completely so it could be a middle kind of choice.  Be in contact but on his terms with boundaries and let someone else be in the caretaker role.

Would your BF be interested in posting here himself?  I'm on these boards because my significant other (SO) has an undiagnosed BPD ex-wife (uBPDxw) and he and I are both members.  It helped us both get on the same page, speak the same language and create a united front when it came to his ex.

Welcome to the BPD Family 

Panda39

[HappyChappy]

I'm low to minimal contact with her if my bf would make the choice to cut ties id have nothing to do with her because she is so toxic n more... .I think long term plan is to cut her out our lives but...

A rule used in institutions in the UK, to protect against false accusations is to never be alone with the accuser. So Pandas point about withdrawing from being care giver would help with that.

Panda has given lot of excellent advise on how to deal with things. But having been NC, maybe my experience may help. Technically someone with BPD just want attention, an audience. They don’t have love and loyalty as we know it. So long as they can find narcisstic supply they should be OK.

My whole family is LC with our BPD and NC with out violent NPD. But the real issues is that we all want a mother, so I can relate to your partners dilemma. Also we kids of BPD were brought up to serve our BPD, making it harder still to break. I mean really hard. Otherwise I’d be NC rather than LC. But LC would appear very harsh to the outside world, who probably don't know the true BPD. Lost count of how many times I've heard "A good man is always good to his mother". All I would say is consider fading to grey if you ever go NC, rather than a sudden break. You don't need to announce it, just hook her up with narcisstic supply and slip away. Family is not as important, as narcisstic supply. Its like an addiction to a BPD. So would finding another carer be a step in the right direction ? If not what would ? Did you ever see the Big Bang Theory, where Walowitze trys to find a carer for his cantankerous BPD like mother ? Its hilarious and has a happy ending.  

[Rock Chick]

It can be hard for someone raised by someone with BPD to negotiate this stuff with a parent because they could have learned behaviors that benefit or make the person with BPD more comfortable.  For example boundaries might be hard for your boyfriend in terms of his mother because he may have learned to just let her have what she wants to keep her happy... .keep the chaos and drama down.

My bf's dad (when he was still married to my bf's mother) told him when he was growing up to 'Just give her what she wants so she will shut up because if you don't she won't shut up & will get worse'. So I guess maybe that's where he learned it and I suppose it is sometimes easier and it keeps the drama down but it's like putting a cheap band-aid on a wound... .before the night is over or before you wake up the next morning its fallen off and you need another. My bf has been trying to set boundaries and follow threw when they are violated but I think it's hard for him to follow threw sometimes because she is soo mentally ill and she takes everything out on him. She is always the victim. Everyone else always causes everything and we always make her mad/angry/etc. It's never 'I am upset' it's 'you make me so upset'.

It sounds like he his providing this care out of a sense of Obligation, would be made to feel Guilty if he discontinued, and now she is bringing Fear into the situation by threatening him through Protective Services.

I think he has done the care giving thing for so long because he knows nobody else would be to take care of her. She would go threw 100s of caregivers in a manner of 2 to 6 months. As well he worries about her even though he knows she is fully capable 99% the time if not more of doing everything that DHS requires him or any part time caregiver to do like making sure foods in the house, grooming/bathing stuff, clothing herself, taking out trash, cooking for herself, etc.

We have recorded a few things but could never use it in court because even though I did tell her one time cause she said she didn't believe she said or behaved a certain way I asked rather she would want me to record her so she could hear how she sounded. She said yes. So ya Idk how that would work out in court. Would it be a she said they said kinda thing. She would probably remember that she said yes but deny it to anyone else that wasn't us like a judge or attorney or psychologist etc.

We have created boundaries and we know they are for us. What sucks is always having to follow threw with them every second every minute of every day never having a break because she ignores them and has no respect for our boundaries etc. But perhaps it's time to sit down and figure out better ways to follow threw with things and the consequences of them being broken or ignored for lack of better wording. As for stopping the care giving I think we are going to do that soon but we have to talk to DHS first. I think how much she is in our lives and my bf's life will depend on the drinking, her mental health progress towards improving positive way or gets worse and how she treats us. If she continues like she has we will have to cut seeing her down to once or twice a month. If she continues then it will be once or twice every few months. Then only on major holidays and her birthday. She still continues then just on Christmas and then if continues the final step or straw of cutting ties and go no contact. As you or someone said don't cut ties cold turkey just slowly fade away.

I've mentioned the forum to him before. I've told them there are a lot of good supportive ppl on here and they have gone threw similar things but he hasn't said rather he would or wouldn't check out the forum and post yet.

[Rock Chick]

A rule used in institutions in the UK, to protect against false accusations is to never be alone with the accuser.

I try to go along when I can when he visits his mother and when he does the care giving stuff. As I don't really trust her much if at all.

Family is not as important, as narcissistic supply. Did you ever see the Big Bang Theory, where Walowitze tries to find a carer for his cantankerous BPD like mother?

I would say Family is also not as important if at all to her as her herself is to her despite what she says. I haven't caught too many episodes of Big Bang Theory... .so no I havent seen that episode you speak of. Speaking of TV shows I often wondered if the character Edina/Eddy from Absolutely Fabulous was BPD, NPD or something along those lines. Have you ever seen that show what do you think (or anyone reading this who has seen the show)?

[HappyChappy]

I often wondered if the character Edina/Eddy from Absolutely Fabulous was BPD, NPD or something along those lines. Have you ever seen that show what do you think (or anyone reading this who has seen the show)?

Jennifer Saunders' real-life friend Lynne Franks is often credited as the inspiration for the character of Edina. Lynne was also a PR guru, but considered to be very BPD. PR is about manipulating the masses, so someone with BPD would be well suited. Max Clifford, the PR guy who died it jail recently was very NPD. In Ab Fab, Edina's daughter has been parentified, which is another common BPD thing. Also her friend is very NPD, and NPD and BPD often couple up. Everyone loves Raymond is another blatant comedy about a BPD family dynamic - with triangulation and everything.

[Rock Chick]

UPDATE:
My bf got a call from DHS and they informed him that APS had gotten a hold of them. They told APS they are fully aware of whats really going on. They made it clear to them that whatever was told to APS by my bfs mother or anyone else is false. They know the real truth and that my bf has done his duties as a part part time caregiver and he treats her well. They informed APS that her drinking is out of control (/she is a severe alcoholic) and she is spiraling out of control. That she has called the cops numerous time on herself and others including family and neighbors have too. That she was also due to a very recent incident with alcohol put into a 72hr+ hold in the mental ward of our local hospital for being not only drunk but harming herself n being a danger to herself. DHS told my bf that his mother does not need him nor anyone to be her caregiver because if she can do things like get in cars with strangers, use the bus and walk all that way from the pub etc etc then she can take care of herself. My bf is waiting for DHS etc to finalize things and he will officially no longer be her caregiver and be to step down. After all this happened DHS or APS or someone must of told my bf's mother as she called my bf and asked if it was true what she heard. He told her the truth and said yes DHS believes you do not need me nor anyone to be a caregiver for you now, you didn't really before and don't need one in the future. They said if you can do things like you did the other day etc than you can take care of yourself. To which she replies so I guess you will never be coming over to see me anymore etc. I don't think he gave her an answer or I think he told her we will see how things go. DHS is supposedly going to contact him after they have a staff meeting about his mother. I told my bf when he talks to DHS have them send a certified letter stating all the things they have said to him not only in this call but previous ones so if anything should arise in future he can show the letter.

[Turkish]

This is a positive development. 

I'd like to reiterate what HappyChappy said given all of the accusations: I'd caution your bf never to be alone with her ever again if he does choose to visit. 

I'd actually like to visit my mother,  but after her paranoid false accusations,  I don't feel safe.  The cop which called me to pick her up when she tried to escape my home "where I ear keeping her prisoner" luckily saw that she wasn't right.  I took her back to her filthy hoard the next morning.  APS investigated her claims that I was stealing her money.  The bank told them "unequivocally no." Now she's living in a strip motel with a community of other long term residents.  Who knows what she's told them.  I know exactly where she is,  and I could help.  I don't,  however,  feel safe showing up there even with a friend.  This is even though I've been in contact with the APS social worker.

We have a "no run" policy on the Bettering Board, but not here.  However,  the overall site mission is to "preserve the family." Sometimes a family member is so off the wall that the best decision might be to "preserve yourself." I still struggle with the latter... .

[HappyChappy]

Hey Rock Chick,
glad its all sorted. Social services are a lot more joined up than we think. I wonder if this could be used to encourage your BPD into AA ? Best of luck.

[Rock Chick]

I wonder if this could be used to encourage your BPD into AA ?

My bf's malignant BPD etc mother has been to AA several times in the last 11 yrs and esp last 2. None of them work. She drinks before during and after AA. She also is apart of interact that she was court ordered into over 11 yrs ago. Then less than 6 months after graduating her from program cuz she wasnt doing her part her primary n psychologyist at time put her back in the program. They havent been to help with the alcohol issues nor mental health issues. Neither has her primary care doctor, former psychologist, etc. She isnt getting better in all this time and even if she says she wants help she doesnt do her part n things dont change or get worse. Its like what do you do then... .what do the professional do then?

[HappyChappy]

The hard cold answer to that the professionals can only help someone who is prepared to help themselves. The curse of BPD is that the illness itself is self preserving, in that BPD can not admit to having anything seen as a problem. There are success stories from BPD but it is not the majority and age is a factor. It sounds like your husband has been a good son to his BPD, he has done his bit and deserves a break.

[Rock Chick]

Update 2:
Thought I update those here who have read my post and replied. My bf has been waiting all this time since my last post to hear from DHS about their final decision. Well until a few days ago... .they called and said that they all agreed after the meeting was over that his mother does not need a caregiver as she can take care of herself. They also are removing his mother from the program or whatever you wanna call it and my bf is no longer her part time caregiver. Well this hasn't sat well with my bfs BPDm she has been drinking pretty much every other day (could be more). She is also (esp. when she is drinking and drunk) blowing up my bfs cell with calls, texts and voicemails and not only from her cell but her house phone and various strangers numbers (who are not of the good variety type of ppl and she is going places with them and putting herself in harms way). She is calling him all kinds of horrible things, accusing him of stuff, telling him all she ever really wanted was girls she never wanted to have a son, accusing him of turning his sisters against her (btw, they have been super LC with her for a long long time... only seeing her on her bday and Christmas and rarely if ever pick up phone when she calls. So where she gets him turning them against is beyond me it must be projecting her stuff onto my bf and she really knows she is one that pushed them away with her drinking and abusiveness etc.), telling him she is done with him, that it wasnt his dad saying all the bad stuff about her all these yrs it was really my bf, she is never gonna speak to him again, saying he took everything away from her, etc etc. So after tons of blowing up his phone with negative stuff the other night idk if she is going off into magical thinking, paranoid territory, delusions, etc or what she calls all hysterical and not listening to a word my bf says (he was trying to figure what was going on and trying to calm her down). She admits sorta that she knows my bf didnt call cops on her but then she goes on and on saying the cops and IRS are out to get her, there is a warrant out for her arrest, it will be just a manner of time before they get her, they will take everything she has (which isnt much), they have a detective after her, etc. During all this (drunk n drinking parts of everything for lack of better words) she even called me once or twice from her phone and a few times from strangers numbers and left msg from those numbers. So ya to put it lightly and short as possible its been reallllllly interesting times since last I posted. I wish I had more positive stuff to share .

[Panda39]

Hi Rock Chick,

Yikes, it sounds like your BF's mom is having what we call an "Extinction Burst".

The phenomenon of behaviour temporarily getting worse, not better when the reinforcement stops.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0

So in other words because things are changing for your BF's mom she is escalating her behaviors.  This can happen with change and when someone else enforces their boundaries.

Speaking of boundaries how is your boyfriend doing through all of this?  Is he able to set some boundaries around his mom's behaviors?  Maybe he speaks with her once a day instead of several?  Maybe he hangs up the phone if she is verbally abusive?  Maybe he reads text messages once a day instead of all day?

Can you guys come up with one boundary that might give your BF a little relief from his mom's harrassment?

More on boundaries... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368.0

I often share my own simple analogy about setting boundaries I hope it's helpful ... .

A little kid asks mom for candy, mom says no... .kid pouts.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no... .kid whines.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no... .kid has a full on melt down screaming tantrum (Extinction Burst). What happens if mom gives in and gets the candy (gives intermittent or inconsistent reinforcement)?  That little kid has just learned that having a screaming tantrum will get them what they want.  What happens if mom doesn't give in? The kid learns that no means no and he gives up.

I'm sorry you and boyfriend are experiencing all of this, I know from experience how lousy it can be.  It is your job to do what is good for the two of you.

Take Care,
Panda39

[Rock Chick]

It sounds like your BF's mom is having what we call an "Extinction Burst". The phenomenon of behavior temporarily getting worse, not better when the reinforcement stops. So in other words because things are changing for your BF's mom she is escalating her behaviors.  This can happen with change and when someone else enforces their boundaries.

Perhaps this is it (and kinda seems like some other things in play like she is childly regressing mentally etc). I am not sure. Can these extinction bursts last for days, weeks, etc and can they reoccur a lot? The only thing this last time that doesnt happen every time is she added the comments about his sisters, only wanting to have baby girls and the comment about his dad.

Speaking of boundaries how is your boyfriend doing through all of this?  Is he able to set some boundaries around his mom's behaviors?  Maybe he speaks with her once a day instead of several?  Maybe he hangs up the phone if she is verbally abusive?  Maybe he reads text messages once a day instead of all day?

He is still working on setting new boundaries as needed and sticking to ones that have already been made. For example... He no longer picks her up from hospital after she or someone calls the cops when she drinks. He makes her take a cab or find another way home. He doesn't pick her up because he doesn't want to reward her behavior and choices and it isn't always safe to be around her when she gets drunk (we learned that awhile ago so a boundary was set). He also answers her calls, voice mails, texts etc a lot less when she is sober and when she is drunk he doesnt answer at all or only answers after hours and hours of her msgs (and I do mean hours). He then only keeps time on phone with her very short when she is drunk and picks up only once and rarely maybe twice. Like telling her 'mom I am not going to talk to you while your drunk and when you are yelling at me.' then he hangs up. Ive suggested a few times changing the ringtone for her numbers to silent ringtone and temporarily blocking her number or even permanently if things persist. He has set the ringtone to silent a few times but has yet to block her numbers. Whats sad is she will just call from strangers phones etc. She has done that the last 2 times she has been drunk.

What happens if mom doesn't give in? The kid learns that no means no and he gives up.

What's sad is she hasnt learned no means no or she chooses to ignore that no means no. She is very stubborn and persistent and has been for longer than Ive known her.