Just Jealousy: Has this ever been a dealbreaker for you?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Jealousy has been a serious issue in my relationship. I thought, starting out, I could respond to this a bit and it would not become so horrible, but it did. I just cannot relate to this emotion and have real limits beyond which I can't tolerate this. To make matters worse (in his eyes) I am not very jealous at all. I like that part of me and it's not going to change. Thing is I think he can't change on this either, other things maybe, but not this point. He comes from a culture where "you are out of the norm if you are not jealous" he says. There is jealousy in my culture too (perhaps in many/most in one form or another), but I'm me, not my culture... .and I'm not into playing these jealousy games.

Did you ever break up with someone over this issue? How did you deal with this kind of control issue?

[pearlsw]

Jealousy has been a serious issue in my relationship. I thought, starting out, I could respond to this a bit and it would not become so horrible, but it did. I just cannot relate to this emotion and have real limits beyond which I can't tolerate this. To make matters worse (in his eyes) I am not very jealous at all. I like that part of me and it's not going to change. Thing is I think he can't change on this either, other things maybe, but not this point. He comes from a culture where "you are out of the norm if you are not jealous" he says. There is jealousy in my culture too (perhaps in many/most in one form or another), but I'm me, not my culture... .and I'm not into playing these jealousy games.

Did you ever break up with someone over this issue? How did you deal with this kind of control issue?

[BasementDweller]

Hi, pearlsw -

Can you tell us more about how the jealousy has been manifesting? I have never been in a relationship with really problematic jealousy, but have had a few partners that worried a little, or felt threatened a bit in the beginning by one of my exes or male friends, but it was never severe. As the relationship developed, those worries subsided. I have had similar fears in the early stages of some relationships, but never where I became angry or mean, or badmouthed anyone. I think it could be considered a type of self preservation. You want to be sure you aren't being decieved. I never felt... .I don't know, intimidated or threatened by any other peson as if they were better than me somehow... .it wasn't insecurity, more like wanting to make sure my partner's motives were honest, because blindly trusting anyone isn't the safest thing to do. It's good to be sure you know what you are getting yourself into. Normally, in time, things get more comfortable, and trust grows and develops if everything really is on the up and up. The best course of action is if I am worried about anything, I have found, is just to ask. This can be done in a polite, but straightforward manner. No snooping, no accusing, just ask. I encourage any person I am in a relationship with to do the same.

Not everyone will feel the same, but if I didn't worry at least a *little* at the onset, or my partner didn't - I'd think something was wrong, or maybe the feelings weren't really there. It's always been a good indicator to me that if there is at least a little bit of concern about losing that person to someone else, then yeah - you really care. I think it's then that you actually realize DO you care. When that little twinge of worry appears. I'd seriously wonder about any boyfriend who had zero qualms about me hanging around with ex boyfriends or going out drinking with other guys. Extreme posessiveness... .no. That's too much.  But a little "Hey, your ex asked you out for a beer - should I worry?" I'd be glad he asked, to be honest.

But if it gets to the point where the jealously is so severe that they flat out accuse you of irrational things, or become threatening or abusive or try to tell you you are not allowed to talk to certain people - that's not healthy. I would be fine with a partner saying "I'll be honest, it makes me uncomfortable to think about you hanging out with your ex." Not "I forbid you to talk to him. Cut all contact now!" The first one is an honest statement, the second one is a demand. Not cool. Jealousy would not be a delbreaker for me at all - IF the person expressed their concerns in a civil way, and did not become confrontational about it.

What's been happening? How has he been expressing it?

[valet]

Hey pearl, I think everyone gets a bit jealous at times, and that we all respond a bit differently given a set of circumstances.

Would you mind giving us an example where you saw your ex as too jealous for your liking?

[Notwendy]

Hi Pearls- anything can be a deal breaker- one persons deal breaker may not be the same as another's but if it is your deal breaker- then it can be.

Deal breakers are our own boundaries that we will not compromise on. Someone may want to be with someone of the same religion - for someone else that may not matter. A deal breaker doesn't have to mean the other person is wrong. There is nothing  wrong with having whatever religion someone wants ( or no religion )but it can be a deal breaker.

Concerning deal breakers could be abuse, cheating - yet they aren't deal breaker for everyone.

The important person to ask is you. If it's s deal breaker for you - then honor your boundaries.

For me - it wouldn't be just the feeling of jealousy but what the person does about it. If they are suspicious all the time- checking my phone, computer, angry or violent, or exceedingly controlling  or verbally abusive because of thei jealousy- then those behaviors would be deal breakers to me if they continued despite discussions about it.

[pearlsw]

Hi everyone, Thanks very, very much. I'm still processing your replies. I think I have only felt that jealous twinge twice in my entire life... .The first time I channeled it to stop seeing someone that was exhibiting some odd behaviors and in the second instance it led to finally acknowledging that I had feelings for someone. But in both cases they were short (just moments really) and easy to laugh off. I just don't get this particular feeling. My "h", in my opinion, is pretty extreme on this stuff... .I hear that he worries a lot that I'll leave him, and with his excessive push/pull that could happen eventually, but the jealousy escalated recently to me even being able to talk to, well, any male. Normally in relationships it has been easy for me to keep a wall up, but it is hard not to wonder what is on the other side when the relationship is constantly being threatened with a breakup. Because of this, in terms of my feelings, the relationship has never been solid... .I hate how I feel like I am constantly having to audition for a job that I never get hired for... .I dunno.

[Notwendy]

I think people can feel different levels of jealousy. It's how we manage our feelings that makes a difference.

PwBPD have difficulty with managing their feelings and tend to see their bad feelings as being caused by something external. But whose feelings are they? Our feelings are our feelings.

Jealousy is just a feeling. For someone with BPD - a feeling seems like a fact. "Well, if I am jealous, then you are the cause of my jealousy and it means I have reason to be jealous" . The response then becomes attempts to control YOU to manage his feelings. ":)on't talk to any men, and that will relieve my jealousy".

A person who can manage their own feelings might think. " I am jealous- does this make sense or not?" Now, if there is good reason to be jealous- that is something to look into- but also one might consider why am I feeling jealous, does that say something about me?"  Basically - that person recognizes their own feelings.

There is the feeling and then the action. Controlling someone else could be seen as abusive if it is excessive. You know that being expected to not speak to any men is overly controlling. You may not feel the same level of jealousy as your partner, but that is OK- you both are different. You can't expect him to feel the same level as you and vice versa. You may not understand how he can feel that way but that is OK.

The issue is the action. He wants you to not speak to any man. You don't like that plan. It's the action to deal with. 

[pearlsw]

Hi Notwendy,

Thanks very much. Yes, after just putting things back into a calmer place where there was still some last minute (or just seconds?) room to discuss a future and making things work, his jealousy perked up again just as I was heading out the door... .

Sadly, for me and for him, his constant breakups did give him reason to worry - in the past. We have talked about forgiving each others mistakes, mistakes that damaged us both, but when this came up again and looked so ugly and is so against anything I find acceptable... .It just hit into that dealbreaker territory for me. I want to be faithful and honest as is my nature, but... .I can't be treated like an animal... .and his breakup cycles, that I have been subjected to, confused by, and dragged into participating in despite a lot of resistance on my part... .I just don't want to be with an extremely jealous person. I don't. I hate feeling over-sexualized by him in this sense... .I mean, geez, I can not have sex with every man I see, it's not hard at all frankly, but... .it feels like invisible chains on me... .It doesn't make me feel loved, it makes me feel like I'm being reduced to being female body parts and not intellectually engaged, but sexually possessed.

I can be a loyal partner, this was never hard til I met him, and after five years of his push/pull off/on drams, but... .breakup with me a hundred plus times and don't be surprised that I don't take this relationship to not mean a whole lot... .I get damaged over and over and it changed me for awhile. It broke parts of me I didn't know could be broken. I have tried to piece myself back together and get back to myself, but nothing has really changed the conditions of my vulnerability and it will never be acceptable or appealing for me to deal with extreme jealousy. Never. I don't know how to negotiate this, I can't compromise these core values... .I've compromised enough and lost enough of myself... .parts of me that I will never have back. I lost the kinds of things you spend a lifetime creating, your sense of self, your identity, your good work, your ability to be trusted and relied on by others... .this dynamic has taken a toll, and yet, I still, still, still try to get it back into balance... .

[Notwendy]

Your dealbreakers reflect your values, and you can honor them. We don't need to defend a dealbreaker. We all have some- they may be different ones,  but that is OK. If this kind of extreme jealousy is one of them, then you can honor that.  It would not like it either- but the important thing in your marriage is your dealbreakers not mine.

[formflier]

 his jealousy perked up again just as I was heading out the door... .
 

I'm wondering if there is some abandonment in here as well.  

How do you act/react when confronted with "jealousy".

Can you give us some he said she said?

Personally I found it very helpful to get a female perspective from others on these boards.

I'm from the south, I'm friendly, and I like to talk.  About pretty much anything.  So, I can meet a female and talk... easily.  "Easy breezy".  

Even if I think she is hot... .or not.  It's not really about attraction for me (it's about gab).  

Now... .after years of BPDish stuff, you can imagine that my wife and I don't often have "easy breezy".  So for her to see that with some random chick (heaven forbid a hot chick)... .I can see how anyone (BPD or not) could struggle.

So... .instead of a decision to talk or not, I've tried to modify it to "what I talk about".  Especially if my wife is within earshot, I'll talk about her... .something my wife is good at or I'm proud of her for.  :)oesn't have to be the entire conversation, but sort of a pro-active "plug" to give my wife a boost.

And me sorta claiming my territory.  "Sure... .I"m talking to you, but I'm clarifying that she (my wife over there) is mine."

Anyway... .when jealously still comes up... .I ask directly if my wife's feelings need reassurance.  She usually doesn't answer (because she doesn't want to talk about her feelings)... .and she knows that i'm not going to take the bait.

Thoughts?

FF

[Notwendy]

FF, I see what you mean about the easy breasy-

But what Pearls is dealing with isn't seeing her speak to someone else in a carefree manner, but almost a form of stalking. Pearls is out of town and her H is constantly calling, asking who she is with, accusing her of doing things she isn't doing.

I have experienced what you have described, both ways. Once my H was angry at me and not speaking to me. We bumped into a woman he worked with and he changed into Mr Charming and then when she left, back to giving me the ST. I knew he wasn't interested in the woman sexually- but the change- from how he was acting with me and then her was upsetting.

What he has expressed jealousy over is that I can speak easier to other people when I am walking on egg shells with him. My solution is to walk on eggshells less- be more authentic with everyone. This takes some work.

I have been accused at times, or asked strange questions about where I have been or where I am going. There were also backhanded attempts to keep me from going to things I wanted to do like refusing to watch the kids. For many years, I was with them almost constantly and I think this was a security to him. If the kids were with me, then the likelihood of cheating was much less. He knows better than to tell me I can't do something but with the kids I was mostly with them. This has changed since they are older.

Not that I do anything that would cause suspicion. If I do go out, it is a work meeting, exercise class, 12 step group and rarely a movie with the girls. I have not given him  reason to be concerned about cheating. I can't control his thinking or anyone else's.

The most important thing to me is my own ethics. If I did cheat, I would feel I let myself down. My self esteem depends on me living according to my values to the best of my ability. Someone else can accuse me all they want but if it didn't happen, it didn't happen. The pink elephant analogy helps me a lot with accusations. I know I am not a pink elephant, and if someone tells me I am, that doesn't make me one. So I react less to accusations of things I did not do.