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Author Topic: Girlfriend projecting feelings of self hate  (Read 687 times)
Shiny17

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7


« on: January 28, 2018, 10:47:08 PM »

Just looking for some advice on a few things that are becoming a little frustrating.

So I'm having trouble dealing with my girlfriend, particularly during periods where she is upset. Of course, there are a lot of small day to day things that can make her upset or cause her to have an episode of sadness, anger, loathing, guilt, etc. Some of the most consistent triggers for her seems to be words of encouragement, reassurance, compliments, reaffirmation of my feelings for her, etc. At times, she seems to desperately want all of these things, which I understand and have no problem doing, but at other times without any warning, they make her upset for anywhere from a few hours to 2 days. A good example would be today
.
 She was shopping online for an outfit to buy for an event we would be going to and was doubting if they would look good on her. She didn't think she had the body for it. I responded that I like her body a lot and that if she feels like she'd be comfortable wearing what she was looking at and thought it was the right outfit, she should go for it. She said "No, because I can't' show up looking ugly next to you, but I guess I will anyways so it doesn't matter". It's hard for me to know for sure, but this is atleast where I'd perceived the shift occurs. Usually she'll initially say something like this in a silly voice, implying that it really doesn't matter. I try to reassure her by reminding her that I think she's beautiful and I'll be overjoyed as long as we're going together, no matter what she decides to wear. "You're always going to look better than me, I should just go in a hoodie and shorts" (it's a formal event). We joke about the idea of showing up like that and things become quiet. "Welp, I'm sad!" she says. I ask "Oh, why are you sad?", to which she responds, "I don't know, because you're better than me and I'm ugly, doesn't matter". My heart sinks, "Oh... .I'm sorry." I know there's no point in trying to reassure her now. We've done this enough times for me to know that trying to compliment her will only anger her and cause her to become hostile toward me and herself. I can't do it, it's exhausting and gets nowhere. We're silent for a while before she says, "I want to shave my hair and eyebrows". That's her go-to line, she uses it almost everyday. Just like always, I ask why. I know questions annoy her when she's this way, but I often ask anyways. "Because then you'll think I'm ugly", usual response. I tell her that I'll never think she's ugly. The responses here tend to vary. "Wrong answer", "Well I think I am so it doesn't matter", "Why won't you just let me feel ugly", :You know you're not obligated to compliment me, I'm just being a baby because I'm ugly" "Just because you feel that way doesn't mean you have to project that onto me" (This one I found especially interesting. She often accuses me of projecting that I want her to be happy even though she wants to be upset, or that I'm projecting my own faith in her even though I know she has no faith in herself. Thoughts?). Anyways sorry for the word wall, just trying to figure out a way to deal with this as it seems to be happening more often and more severely recently.
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JoeBPD81
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« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2018, 02:38:08 AM »

Hi, Shiny17 Welcome

We all fall in circles that make no sense to us. What you do, what we all do, is follow our instincts and act and say things that are rooted in our best wishes for the person we love. And that backfires so we feel completely lost, and frustrated.

We have a logic that has been formed by our interaction with other people, and we have a repertoir of things that work with people. We use it, and we get the opposite results.

It takes a new training, and a new logic and instincts to be formed. To get positive results with people with BPD, at least when they are starting to disregulate.

In my opinion, the problem is that we listen to the words instead of the emotion behind those words. When they have strong emotions, what they say doesn't portray eficiently what they are feeling. We often hear the defense mechanism they put in place to fight an emotion that they fear is going to be too strong.

We have to validate the emotion. We don't validate the words that are invalid ("yes, honey, you are ugly as a trol". But we can adknowledge the fact that people feel bad about themselves sometimes. "We all have days that think nothing looks good on us", "I'm sorry you are feeling like that" Then you can ask: ":)o you think I can help you? Do you want my opinion?"

When you say "you are not ugly", you are telling the truth and wanting her to feel better. But she is hearing "you don't know what you're talking about, what you are feeling is wrong, a normal person would be feelling a different thing... .". In my experience, pwBPD are very insecure about their emotions (Am I feeling the appropriate emotion? Am I overreacting? Do all people feel this way?). They know they have trouble with that, but they are extremelly sensitive to criticism, so when they feel we are puzzle with their current emotion, they feel very threatened. And they need to make it simpler: Go away and let me figure out what I'm really feeling.

So, always try to figure out what is the feeling behind. She's not telling you "I'm ugly" She's telling you "I feel ugly". You can't say "no, you're not", because the feeling is real. This one is tricky, because you can't get away with one "I understand", you have to say something else. But remember, you don't have to fix it, you don't have to make her happy, in that very moment. You need to start making her feel more understood, and because of that, safe. Sometimes you'll need to give her a lot of time to regulate herself. If you know one response backfires, allways, then it's better to excuse yourself, and remain silent. Before we learn to make things right, we learn to stop making things worse.

Please, let me (us) know if any of that makes sense, and your thoughts about it. Best of luck to you.
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Jessica84
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 940


« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2018, 04:40:50 AM »

I feel for your dilemma. You can't say "I think you're beautiful". She'll think something is wrong with her for not seeing herself as you do, or something is wrong with YOU. She is convinced she is ugly. So either she's crazy, or you must be lying, or blind. More than likely, it's your fault. You also can't say "Yeah, that dress wouldn't look good on you." You re-affirm her original belief, which could trigger her, and of course, that's your fault too.

When there is NO right answer, I find a subtle way to change the subject. And move on quickly. My BF does the "I'm fat" thing. I've learned not to agree/disagree. I remember the circular arguments --> I'm fat. You look great! No I don't. I think you do. Well you're blind. I'm sorry you feel that way.  I don't feel any way, I'm just fat. What can you do? Start exercising, I guess. You wanna workout together? So you DO think I'm fat... .

Nope. Now he gets a "Hey, did you hear about <anything other than this!>?"

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Shiny17

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7


« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2018, 07:24:00 AM »

Hi, Shiny17 Welcome

We all fall in circles that make no sense to us. What you do, what we all do, is follow our instincts and act and say things that are rooted in our best wishes for the person we love. And that backfires so we feel completely lost, and frustrated.

We have a logic that has been formed by our interaction with other people, and we have a repertoir of things that work with people. We use it, and we get the opposite results.

It takes a new training, and a new logic and instincts to be formed. To get positive results with people with BPD, at least when they are starting to disregulate.

In my opinion, the problem is that we listen to the words instead of the emotion behind those words. When they have strong emotions, what they say doesn't portray eficiently what they are feeling. We often hear the defense mechanism they put in place to fight an emotion that they fear is going to be too strong.

We have to validate the emotion. We don't validate the words that are invalid ("yes, honey, you are ugly as a trol". But we can adknowledge the fact that people feel bad about themselves sometimes. "We all have days that think nothing looks good on us", "I'm sorry you are feeling like that" Then you can ask: ":)o you think I can help you? Do you want my opinion?"

When you say "you are not ugly", you are telling the truth and wanting her to feel better. But she is hearing "you don't know what you're talking about, what you are feeling is wrong, a normal person would be feelling a different thing... .". In my experience, pwBPD are very insecure about their emotions (Am I feeling the appropriate emotion? Am I overreacting? Do all people feel this way?). They know they have trouble with that, but they are extremelly sensitive to criticism, so when they feel we are puzzle with their current emotion, they feel very threatened. And they need to make it simpler: Go away and let me figure out what I'm really feeling.

So, always try to figure out what is the feeling behind. She's not telling you "I'm ugly" She's telling you "I feel ugly". You can't say "no, you're not", because the feeling is real. This one is tricky, because you can't get away with one "I understand", you have to say something else. But remember, you don't have to fix it, you don't have to make her happy, in that very moment. You need to start making her feel more understood, and because of that, safe. Sometimes you'll need to give her a lot of time to regulate herself. If you know one response backfires, allways, then it's better to excuse yourself, and remain silent. Before we learn to make things right, we learn to stop making things worse.

Please, let me (us) know if any of that makes sense, and your thoughts about it. Best of luck to you.

Thank you a lot I really appreciate the insight! I think I push a little hard sometimes and forget that she just needs time to regulate. It can be frustrating when we only get 30 good minutes of conversation before this happens, but I think I just need to be patient there.
In the past I would say “I’m really sorry you feel that way” whenever conversations like this arose. She used to just say that it doesn’t matter, but recently she says that I’m not being genuine and that I’m saying it to shut her up. She often says I’m talking down to her, pointing to my tone of voice. What tone of voice should I use to get the message across? I feel like this will be just as important if not more than the words.
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Shiny17

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7


« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2018, 07:30:47 AM »

I feel for your dilemma. You can't say "I think you're beautiful". She'll think something is wrong with her for not seeing herself as you do, or something is wrong with YOU. She is convinced she is ugly. So either she's crazy, or you must be lying, or blind. More than likely, it's your fault. You also can't say "Yeah, that dress wouldn't look good on you." You re-affirm her original belief, which could trigger her, and of course, that's your fault too.

When there is NO right answer, I find a subtle way to change the subject. And move on quickly. My BF does the "I'm fat" thing. I've learned not to agree/disagree. I remember the circular arguments --> I'm fat. You look great! No I don't. I think you do. Well you're blind. I'm sorry you feel that way.  I don't feel any way, I'm just fat. What can you do? Start exercising, I guess. You wanna workout together? So you DO think I'm fat... .

Nope. Now he gets a "Hey, did you hear about <anything other than this!>?"


I think you’re right. When she knows I’m trying to distract her, she’ll try especially hard to dwell on the topic, or  more often just completely disengage. But I do find that with enough time this works sometimes. It’s easy to get caught up in the idea that if I don’t see immediate results, I must not be helping, but this actually was really helpful and I’ll try it more often!
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isilme
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« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2018, 12:26:30 PM »

H gets like this if I tell him he is not fat/ugly/old-looking/bald/serial-killer-looking (yeah, he says that)think he is attractive, and will even call me stupid or a liar.  If I point out he hates for ME to talk like this, he tells me to stop turning everything to be about me.

So yeah, telling her you think she's pretty really communicates she's stupid and wrong and crazy in addition to feeling ugly. No one wants to be in that place. 

The only thing I can really ever think to say that is not 100% invalidation of his FEELINGS but does not say I agree is along the lines of "I feel bad YOU feel that way about yourself.  I do not share those feelings but am sad you have them about how you look."

I also have been working over the last few years to get the idea into his head he can have a feeling or idea but I might not share it, and that's totally okay.  It's an idea I am working on regarding his feelings, too - that he is allowed to have his feelings, not matter how out of whack I think they may be, he can have them and I don't need to fix them or share them.

As for ordering clothes - this is a little passive:  "I responded that I like her body a lot and that if she feels like she'd be comfortable wearing what she was looking at and thought it was the right outfit, she should go for it."  Can you just say "I like that - order it".  And if she waffles, tell her she knows her body best, and the decision is on her.  Then disengage and leave the conversation if it won't stop of its own accord and you can't change the subject. BPD likes to swirl around a  rabbit hole, sinking deeper and deeper into dysregulation thoughts.  They have little ability to put on the brakes, and will even fight us as we try at times. So, in those cases, we need to just extricate ourselves in the best manner for our personal relationships - Some people can simply say, "This is increasingly negative and I will leave the room until we can talk in a more positive manner".  I can't get away with that, so I tend to "remember" things to do - it has the same effect overall - I end the conversation, fording H to self-soothe and stop going down that rabbit hole.  He needs time to "reset". 
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Shiny17

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7


« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2018, 06:26:05 PM »

H gets like this if I tell him he is not fat/ugly/old-looking/bald/serial-killer-looking (yeah, he says that)think he is attractive, and will even call me stupid or a liar.  If I point out he hates for ME to talk like this, he tells me to stop turning everything to be about me.

So yeah, telling her you think she's pretty really communicates she's stupid and wrong and crazy in addition to feeling ugly. No one wants to be in that place. 

The only thing I can really ever think to say that is not 100% invalidation of his FEELINGS but does not say I agree is along the lines of "I feel bad YOU feel that way about yourself.  I do not share those feelings but am sad you have them about how you look."

I also have been working over the last few years to get the idea into his head he can have a feeling or idea but I might not share it, and that's totally okay.  It's an idea I am working on regarding his feelings, too - that he is allowed to have his feelings, not matter how out of whack I think they may be, he can have them and I don't need to fix them or share them.

As for ordering clothes - this is a little passive:  "I responded that I like her body a lot and that if she feels like she'd be comfortable wearing what she was looking at and thought it was the right outfit, she should go for it."  Can you just say "I like that - order it".  And if she waffles, tell her she knows her body best, and the decision is on her.  Then disengage and leave the conversation if it won't stop of its own accord and you can't change the subject. BPD likes to swirl around a  rabbit hole, sinking deeper and deeper into dysregulation thoughts.  They have little ability to put on the brakes, and will even fight us as we try at times. So, in those cases, we need to just extricate ourselves in the best manner for our personal relationships - Some people can simply say, "This is increasingly negative and I will leave the room until we can talk in a more positive manner".  I can't get away with that, so I tend to "remember" things to do - it has the same effect overall - I end the conversation, fording H to self-soothe and stop going down that rabbit hole.  He needs time to "reset". 
I definitely relate to having her say I turn things around to be about me when I give my opinion. All of this is extremely helpful and I feel like it applies really well to this situation so I’ll definitely give it a try, especially being less  passive which I do very often. I think putting a real pause on the conversation might work too. Thanks so much I’ll let you know if any of these approaches go well!
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