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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: Pretty sure my girlfriend of 1.5 years has BPD and I want out, but in a lease..  (Read 567 times)
voltclimb

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« on: January 29, 2018, 05:36:32 PM »

I am pretty sure my girlfriend has BPD or at the very least a serious personality disorder/complex trauma... .We met about a year and a half ago and within a couple month she had moved in. Which I asked her to because at the time I saw her as a solid person who needed a little help and could be good for me in return (I know, I learned my lesson... ). Shortly after that we started a relationship. She and I both have one kid (two total).

I initially had her pegged as somewhat codependent with a really bad trauma history that she was somehow keeping contained really well. I don't think that now... obviously some serious stuff going on with her. I'll admit to having ignored a lot of warnings from my more adult side.

Observations (some borrowed from a recent post here):

Love bombing, especially early on, but really quite frequently.

She tries to get close to people really quickly, seems confused by boundaries if she notices them at all. Over time can learn to respect some boundaries if they're defended. Most people she meets she eventually loses contact with, either because they ghost her or because she finds something about them that is 'scary' and she stops responding.

"She makes you feel very special and tell all of her friends and family that you are the best guy ever."

Chronic pain. Has fibromyalgia, PTSD, IBS, gastroparesis (the major ones). Uses medical marijuana to treat it, about $200-$300 worth a month. Has no income beyond about $200 a month in child support.

Her exes were mostly really abusive, according to her. Her ex husband raped her, according to her.

Severe trauma in childhood. Neglect, physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse, mostly at the hands of or enabled by her mother.

Talked about marriage/having a kid very early on, but said it was not necessary (I told her I wasn't sure if I wanted those things), just nice to talk about. Recently when I told her I never promised those things, she went through 'grieving' and then stopped mentioning them.

Is unable to hold a job. Supposedly had a disability case going, but her lawyer advised her to drop it due to an unfavorable judge. Has not restarted it. Claims she's waiting to get her medical paperwork in order since her previous case was in another state.

Needy/clingy, yes. Does -not- get mad when I don't respond to a text, strangely.

Talks a lot. Is willing to listen to me, but almost always ends up saying way more words than me.

I have not been able to catch her in any lies.

High anxiety especially when I say something she did hurt me. She doesn't really get mad, she just gets really anxious and sometimes flees or physically goes somewhere else for a few hours, like I had just started yelling at her or threatening her (but I've never yelled/threatened, obviously, just kept a level tone and asked questions.)

Irritability. When I ask her about it she says it's due to the chronic pain.

Overshares, opens up quickly. Seems to be very good at encouraging other people to open up.

Thinks she knows what's best for people, doesn't always hide it very well. Got fairly close to my roommate (childhood friend of mine) and then started getting upset at him for moving too fast in a relationship. I happen to agree with her assessment, but I feel it's none of my business and the only thing I've said to him about it is to be careful about having kids with someone too fast, which he seemed grateful for. The way she handled it scared him and he eventually told her if she didn't stop he'd stop talking to her. She refers to him as her 'brother' and has him calling her 'sister,' which he seemed fine with until very recently. Now that he spends most of his time/energy on work/girlfriend she's really disappointed in him.

She seems manipulative and controlling but doesn't seem conscious of it.

Talks a lot about how she wants to get revenge on her ex husband (who lives very far away), but doesn't seem to have any concrete ideas of how. She says it's not actually something she'd do, it's just a nice thought.

Good with kids. Doesn't seem to do anything disturbing around them, or I would have ended this much earlier than now. One of the things I will miss the most of her if/when this ends.

Intelligent, good sense of humor.

Insightful.

Kind.

Listens to my issues supportively, although tries to 'problem solve' way too much even after I told her repeatedly I just wanted someone to listen.

Thoughtful. Remembers what people like and gets them gifts that match.

90% of the time is not disturbing, although is usually a bit weird/'off'. The other 10%, though, is not great.

About a month or two before that, I had told her that I was not sure I wanted to stay together. After a couple days of her 'giving me space,' I decided that I wanted to keep trying. She then confessed that she felt passively suicidal during this time.
She found a kitten once who she said we didn't have to keep but she sold him pretty well. I was still unsure a couple days later and she misinterpreted something I said to mean that I didn't want him, and she switched to 'you can't take him from me, i can't go back into the sadness' (rough triggers in the past week). I backed down.

When I think about breaking up, I have a lot of fear of being alone. I feel really guilty about it, also, and not much confidence that she'd be okay. I'm aware on an adult level that these things are not healthy and we would both be better off apart; or at least I would be better off and I gave her a lot of support while I was with her and did not make things worse (my therapist echoes this). I have my own trauma history, not as bad as hers, which I've mostly worked through in therapy. I think she pulls out a lot of the stuff I haven't worked on yet and keeps it near the surface, and that 'stuff' is afraid of losing her.

She acts as though our kids are sisters and we're a family, which on one level I was okay with, but on another level I wasn't because it seemed too fast.

She doesn't remember stuff very well. She was on a stimulant med for adhd for a while but it made her anxiety much higher so they're trying a non stimulant now. I basically can't rely on her to do more than basic things.

Last year she checked herself into a psych hospital. They wouldn't admit her and put her in IOP, which she did two or three weeks of but got removed because she could only attend twice a week due to the chronic pain which gets worse when she gets into her trauma issues. When she came back (first day of IOP) I told her that I wasn't sure I wanted to continue and told her that I was unable to keep supporting her emotionally to the level I was before. She admitted that she had been relying on me too much and hoped that she'd learn better regulation, etc. Since then things have calmed a huge amount, but not entirely.

Lots of ER visits last year for pain. One time she woke me up at 5 AM and I told her I couldn't go with her. She had so much distress at that point that I ended up going anyway.

Gets her hopes up a lot about things before doing basic checks on them, then gets extremely disappointed when they're infeasible.

I don't know what to make of her. She hasn't been violent towards me or called me worthless or put me down or anything like that, but it's been really really hard to go through all this stuff, and to feel trapped in it. I do have a therapist and I've gotten to the point where I have a plan to basically move out.  I've tried to discuss with my girlfriend what we would both do if things didn't work out, but she doesn't seem capable of holding that idea in her head without getting extremely distressed. There was one time she was able to say fairly calmly that she'd look at shelters.

Anyway, my intuition is that it's not safe to break up with her in person, so I'm inclined to simply start over in a new rental unit and pay the 1.5 month fee to break the current lease, but... .I think that may require her consent (otherwise lease has until a few months from now).  I have enough savings to just keep paying my share of rent until it's over, even though that would hurt a lot.  The other roommate wants out also, but is equally hesitant to directly talk to her (is scared of her after she repeatedly criticized his new relationship as moving too fast, after she tried to rapidly make him 'family'... she saw it as abandonment, i think)

Maybe I just need to get to where I have a quick escape plan in case something weird happens, and try to talk to her about leaving when there are no kids around?

I have a therapist who I see weekly who is pretty savvy with this stuff.  Still any ideas or input would be appreciated.

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formflier
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« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2018, 10:59:24 PM »


So... .can you get specific?

What are three observable things that she could change (or if changed) that might change your view on this?

Are you going to be able to "not back down" (I think I saw this a couple times).

I'm all for direct, succinct communication about what works and doesn't work for you, especially in your living situation.  Really important for you to sort out... for sure... what you want.

Because if you have a talk and you say you want things, she says no... you back down.  Well... .you have trained her and it appears to me... .that you really didn't "want" what you asked for.

I'll stop here and get some feedback from you.  This seems solvable... .   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

FF

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voltclimb

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« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2018, 11:56:04 PM »

So... .can you get specific?

What are three observable things that she could change (or if changed) that might change your view on this?

Are you going to be able to "not back down" (I think I saw this a couple times).

I'm all for direct, succinct communication about what works and doesn't work for you, especially in your living situation.  Really important for you to sort out... for sure... what you want.

Because if you have a talk and you say you want things, she says no... you back down.  Well... .you have trained her and it appears to me... .that you really didn't "want" what you asked for.

I'll stop here and get some feedback from you.  This seems solvable... .   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

FF



I'd like her to leave.
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« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2018, 06:51:43 AM »


So... .ask her to go for coffee. 

Let her know it's not working for you and you would like her to leave.  No further explanations... .no details... .no "closure"... .perhaps you can talk further after she leaves.

Is there anything in the lease about people coming and going from the lease?   Is everyone in the place on the lease?

FF
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voltclimb

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« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2018, 12:18:54 PM »

Unfortunately the last time I hinted that I wasn't sure about things she said, after some time had passed and I said I wanted to give it a try, that she was passively contemplating suicide before she found out I wanted to keep trying.

Later in the year she checked herself into a psych hospital in the middle of the night. After that I asked her to come up with a plan for what she would do if I needed her to leave (keep in mind she doesn't pay rent) and she said she'd call the IOP place and they'd probably refer hee to a shelter.

There would be no trouble if she would leave voluntarily but I'm not sure she would and am working on contingency for if she doesn't. Once I ask her again I'm afraid things will get very unpleasant again and I can't predict how she would react to a definite break up so I want to have my valuables etc out and have a place for me and my daughter to live planned out before I do that.
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« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2018, 12:33:34 PM »


Can you write out a he said she said of how you "hinted"?

Listen... .it's doubtful that this will be easy.  I am pretty sure that it will all go better if you are direct and succinct with her about what works and what doesn't.

She may flip out... .she may not.

I'll wait on an explanation of how the prior "hint" went.

FF
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voltclimb

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« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2018, 04:39:31 PM »

Can you write out a he said she said of how you "hinted"?

Listen... .it's doubtful that this will be easy.  I am pretty sure that it will all go better if you are direct and succinct with her about what works and what doesn't.

She may flip out... .she may not.

I'll wait on an explanation of how the prior "hint" went.

FF

I think I see what you're doing.  You don't know me or my situation extremely well (obviously) so you're having me focus on the basics as a way to get to know it better and as a way for me to get my current thoughts and feelings out.  My first impulse was to say I've tried a lot of that before and it hasn't worked, but maybe this is worth doing in this setting.  Don't get me wrong, there's a lot I like about her, and I feel a -lot- of empathy for what she's going through; I wouldn't have even considered leaving until about 3 months ago and since then it's been kind of back and forth in my mind.  Once I figured out she's acting in probably a personality disordered way and that I'm afraid of her I realized that I need to take some steps to improve it or I need to end it for my own sake.

To answer your first question, three things I'd change... .

Item one.  I want impulsive disturbing things to stop happening randomly.  Each thing generally only happens once or twice and then she stops, but it's hard to predict what the next thing will be.  For example,

  • walking naked around the house with our daughters home without asking me if I was comfortable with it. 
  • Telling a new friend of hers that if she asks to snuggle with me I'd probably say yes. 
  • Arguing with my roommate about whether the pace of his new relationship is healthy for him. 
  • Adopting a cat with no intention of respecting my opinion about it. 
  • Getting upset at me when I didn't say hi to my daughter when she came home from camp fast enough.  (this was a fun one... she eventually said it reminded me of how her mom was neglectful, started crying, and then said I don't want to walk down this conversational path because I can't undo it when I suggested that she can't unilaterally claim my kid as hers.  later I told her I don't feel completely safe around her and she says she feels the same way about me.  I said I don't want to live my life like this and she said that she learned from this not to interfere in other people's relationships.   She said then she would stop, and I said "OK" in a somewhat skeptical tone.  A couple minutes later she said "I think I need to find somewhere else to live."  This was about three months ago.)
  • Random ER visits that she pushes very very hard for me to go with her.
  • Making new friends, idealizing them, talking about how great they would be for both of us, and then getting spooked and no longer talking to them.
  • Giving a key to the house to a new friend

Any time I explain to her how I feel about something or how it hurts and ask her to change it, she generally responds in a very anxious manner, explains in exhausting detail why she did it (as though I'm mad at her and she's in trouble), and maybe agrees to stop doing it, depending on the thing.  Sometimes she says that it's impossible for her to stop because of her memory issues or chronic pain but she's trying to improve herself.  (Last year it was worse--I kept asking her if she would help with the budget since she says she's really frugal and good at ideas to get expenses down, and she would deflect and only after a few times did she admit that she can't handle it right now because of anxiety.  In the interim she would sometimes respond to me trying to discuss it with getting triggered and spending a few hours to overnight away from home.)

Item two would be related to the above paragraph--if she could accept calm requests at face value and not assume that I'm trying to punish her or she's in trouble.  Concretely, if we could find a way to do that without her showing a lot of distress or anxiety, which often escalates into the chronic pain getting worse if I bring up enough things in a short period of time (e.g. a week).   I've basically stopped asking her to change her behavior except for very safe things, very gradually, to keep the peace.  I will say 'no' to things I'm not willing to do for the most part, with some exceptions.

Three would be financial.  I don't expect her to work with a disability, but I would like her to restart her disability case if possible/feasible, would like her to apply for food stamps (I brought them up a couple months ago and she said she doesn't like being on government assistance, so I backed off), would like to spend less money on her medical marijuana if possible (it's currently >$300 a month, for pain control, legal in my state).

These three things would be really huge.

As to how I hinted that I wanted things to end... .about three months ago we moved to a new place with three bedrooms so my roommate could live with us and not be on the couch.  He's a childhood friend of mine.  He's decided to move out at the end of the lease because he wants to live with his new girlfriend.  Since my girlfriend doesn't want this since they're talking about having kids in the next year (which I agree with), he's having to move out.  Also recently their disagreement about how fast he should be moving with his girlfriend has spooked him enough that he'd be happy to move out sooner if possible.  Anyway, during that move I was packing up some last boxes with my sister's help, and she said she was upset that my girlfriend wasn't doing much housework or earning any money and asked me why I put up with it, did I love her a lot, etc.  I said I don't know because it had really been moving much faster for me than I wanted, with my girlfriend already talking about getting married and having a kid within the first couple months.  The move itself was a sore point because she pushed for it so the roommate could have his own room (she saw us as 'saving' him because he got out of a bad marriage that severely impacted his health, which improved after he was here for a while).  Both of them assured me they'd pick up any slack on the move if I had issues, since I was going through some depression.  This did not happen.  Roommate was very hard to work with on the move ('hey could you put in an application for this place?' 'uh no i don't have the $40 right now' --he earns a fair amount of money and puts anything extra he has into visits to his girlfriend ... .'hey could you do the last couple hours of clearing out the fridge and grabbing a couple boxes?' [he does it but complains the whole time])  So basically I ended up doing all the applications and coordinating everything, paying for most of it, and doing most of the physical labor; although my girlfriend did do a lot of packing ahead of time because she figured she didn't know when her chronic pain would take her out. 

So at this point I was not happy with any of it and I talked to my girlfriend about what my sister said, and said that I understood she didn't really know us well enough to comment on our relationship, but I was feeling like it was going too fast and I ended up reminding her that I never said I wanted to get married or have a kid, that they were possibilities if things turned out okay.  She took this very very hard and gave me space for a couple days to figure out if I still loved her.  Afterwards I told her I would like to try to make things work.   At which point she said she was glad and then mentioned that she was feeling passively suicidal while waiting.  This is the 'hinting' I mentioned.  Also, when she came back from the psych hospital she said she understood that I need to know that we have a plan as to what we'd do if things ended and she promised we'd work on it.  A week later I asked her about the plan and she got really really spooked and came home early from IOP after talking to her therapist.  She eventually said she'd probably go to a shelter if that happened.  She was on edge and weird for another 2-3 weeks, which was really hard for me.  She just expected me to drop it because she was doing IOP (which she eventually washed out of due to only being able to attend 2 times a week due to chronic pain).  She admits to having issues with emotional regulation and containment.

I am not specifically afraid of her doing anything violent, but she is so hooked into me emotionally that I've simply been trying to detach and find my own sense of self again, and I'm kind of scared as to how she could use that against me, or if she really thought things were ending if she'd do something entirely unexpected--there are obviously parts of her she's not very aware of that come out based on triggers, and she has SEVERE trauma history and honestly it looks a lot like she has some sort of personality disorder; lots of drama, hard to predict behavior, weird triggers.  A concrete example of this kind of dynamic is when I said I felt like she didn't give me a choice with the cat, even though I said I wasn't sure at the start, and she said the kids are already attached, what was I supposed to do; to which I said well, she didn't have to tell the kids we were keeping him, she could have contacted a shelter... but I phrased it in a way that she interpreted as meaning she needed to get rid of him, and she switched from 'reasonable adult saying that we will give him to a shelter if I don't want to keep him' to 'scared little kid begging to keep him so she doesn't have to go back into the sadness' to 'defiant teenager telling me she will not give him up no matter what'.  This does not inspire confidence in a calm, safe breakup conversation.

As a final note:  She has a lot of good and pleasant qualities, and I like most of her as a person.  When I'm being extremely validating and going along with everything (except for saying 'no' when it's something I'm not willing to do), which I learned to do pretty well as a kid due to having a father with a personality disorder, she's quite pleasant and mostly easy to be around.  But this requires me to ghost myself.


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voltclimb

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« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2018, 06:06:26 PM »

Forgot to mention, she told me about giving the person she's known maybe two months the key to the house, but did NOT tell our roommate.
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« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2018, 06:34:51 PM »


Yeah... .no chance she got that "hint".

What is a way you can take her to coffee and directly tell her it's not working and you want to move apart?

How would that go?

FF
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voltclimb

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« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2018, 06:43:25 PM »

Yeah... .no chance she got that "hint".

What is a way you can take her to coffee and directly tell her it's not working and you want to move apart?

How would that go?

FF

There's a good chance all hell would break loose at that point, and I'd want a safety plan in place.  I got a small self storage unit and a mailbox today so once I get some more valuables out I would consider it.  BTW, she has expressed in the past that she's terrified that I'd leave her.
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« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2018, 07:34:07 PM »


So... .if it all breaks loose to the point of danger... .call the police.

While it's unlikely that it will go really well, she might appreciate people being straight and succinct with her.

Do you understand that making decisions out of "fear" of what she MAY do, is keeping your head in the FOG  (Fear, obligation, and guilt).

How much of your decision making is for the O and the G.  I definitely see the F  ... .no good.

Once you power through the first "crap hits the fan thing" and then you realize it's mostly hot air blowing, future episodes aren't that bad.

However, you are wanting to end things... so... .end it.

Listen... if she flips out and tries to hurt herself... that's on her... .not you.

If you become aware of intent or action of self harm, your "obligation" ends at calling the authorities (IMO).

FF
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voltclimb

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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2018, 11:09:23 PM »

Following up on this, I moved out with my kid a couple days ago and am working on detaching.   I made it clear to her that it was over.  I physically left because I did not feel safe (my therapist agreed with this).

It's been pretty hard since then. One day at a time.
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« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2018, 07:10:03 AM »


What has your T suggested about being kind to yourself and also to "pat yourself on the back" for taking action for your safety?

I know this must be hard... and I'm sorry you had to do this.  Putting yourself and your needs first... and that of your child... .is HUGE... .HUGE... .

     Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  

FF
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