Marital therapy disaster - so upset at ill equipped therapists

[lighthouse9]

Hi good people,

Sigh. Where do I begin? uBPDw (separating) came with me to our marriage counselor last night. I've been going on my own since she initiated the separation because I haven't been able to find a new counselor in time (insurance drama) and it's been good to just have someone to talk to who knows our story.

MC (marriage counselor) knows my suspicions of BPD and was actually the one to kind of start the spiral this summer. My mother in law had just visited and was completely undermining our marriage left and right during her visit in really immature and inappropriate ways. My wife and I weren't in a great place at the time, but were going through counseling and working through it (I did not suspect BPD at the time - just normal couple drama). Watching her mom treat me so poorly snapped my wife out of painting me black and brought us back together, at which point she then painted her mom black. Again, I couldn't see these dynamics at the time - but it makes sense now. Our MC dug in a little bit and suggested to my wife that her mom is possibly borderline. There's a family history, a history of trauma, and the behavior fits. I call this moment the beginning of the end, because my wife wasn't the same after that session. She asked me "do you think I'm borderline?" and I shrugged it off at the time, completely invalidating any reason why she would feel that way and didn't understand that I should have let her talk more and validated her instead of trying to give her evidence to the contrary. From there on out, things got weird - big swings of black to white for me, and then the eventual affair that I've spoke of. Now, she's moving out, but is talking to me openly and is talking about BPD.

We don't name it. I say things like "these things we've been talking about" and I'm very careful not to put a label on her, and I just focus on some of the behaviors and thought patterns when we talk. It's been very enlightening and she's been more safely been exploring the possibility, and if anything has let a weight fall off of herself. The trouble is, no one around me in the medical in the psychological community is listening - or maybe they are and are either diminishing the situation or aren't skilled enough to handle it.

For example, (I put this in another thread), I specifically requested a referral to a DBT place and our doctor was all about it - but then I got a letter from the insurance company denying it and sending me to some random place that specializes in anxiety. Sure, I'm anxious, but that's not the issue right now - and I'm actually very well equipped to deal with my anxiety. What I'm not well equipped for is BPD, and so I was seeking counseling with someone who either specialized in it or codependency and did DBT. I made that really clear. Still, no referral, and I'm now back to arguing with the doc about it. I had kind of resigned myself to be "whatever" about it, and my wife's response was "i'll just see any counselor, it will be fine."

Then last night happened. The MC and I have been emailing a little bit, especially since I started going on my own. She knows that I keep a standing invite for my sessions on my wife's calendar, and last night she told me she wanted to go. I sent off an email to update the MC and give her a sense of where things were. Her biggest thing is that there are no secrets between us, so I ended the email with "nothing I told you in this email is a secret and I have zero reservations about any of this coming out during the session." I spoke about how we were carefully approaching the topic of BPD and the hard work she was doing to talk about it and seek out help, and about how I was at a bit of a bottleneck with our insurance company. My hope was that giving her a warning about the topic being broached at home would help her to understand where my wife was at, so that she treated her appropriately (validating her, being patient with her, etc).

Instead, she pretty much did everything you don't do to someone with BPD. There was no acceptance. There was only invalidation and our MC talking over her. She wanted to "break her" (my wife's perspective, but I agree) and kept pushing her in ways that would be ok for someone without BPD but were the absolute wrong direction for my wife. I even said in the email "she sees you as a bit of a lifeline for us right now, so let's work with that." Our MC even brought up (in the last 5 minutes of the session!) her suspicion (almost out of nowhere) about my MIL being BPD. It was like she wanted my wife to just say "Hi my name is ___ and I have BPD" in the closing moments of the session, like we were going to have some big revelation moment and hug and everything was going to be ok. Again, just awful.

We left that session just how you might predict: my wife was so upset, so angry, and spent the whole ride home ranting about our MC. I handled it well. I validated everything she was feeling. I validated the pieces that were absolutely true (about the inappropriate behavior) and also was able to kind of skillfully show her that this is why I'm adamant about her working with the right kind of therapist. I never named BPD. I just kept saying "some of these things we've been talking about that you're feeling, a lot of therapists don't know how to work with that and that's because they lack the skill, not because there is something wrong with you." She's in a helping profession herself, so it's pretty easy to make analogies to her profession to make the point accessible. Then she said "I'm never going back there again" and I agreed - I said our MC was the wrong person for her and that it was 100% ok to feel that way and that I completely support her feelings on that. She also said "this makes me not want to do therapy ever, but I know I have to work through that." Again, I reiterated that therapy didn't have to feel like that and that what our MC did was wrong and unhelpful, and that this was why I was working so hard to research things and push the insurance company in the right direction.

Then she said some really insightful things (as she's been doing very often lately, once validated):

1. Our MC is too easy to manipulate and it's not fun or challenging for her. People like our MC are just such a specific archetype that she gets bored with after a short amount of time and people like that don't last in her life. It's too easy for her to mirror them to give them what they want, and then once she's mastered that she can manipulate them. I was shocked, but also really proud of her for saying it. We had a laugh about it and I of course had to ask "do you feel that way about me?" and she laughed again and said no you're complex as hell and I couldn't have married you if I felt that way about you. Then we talked about it a bit, in very honest ways, about how we can read people and give them what they want and how that can feel wrong sometimes, but also fun. It's pathological for her, but normalizing it to some extent seemed to go over well.

2. She makes impulsive decisions (like getting an apartment without consulting with me, effectively kicking me out of our home) because she feels so invalidated so often that she feels like if she doesn't do what she wants in the exact moment she wants it, she'll give up on it as soon as she's around someone who might not listen to her and might talk her out of it. She said "I know it's F'd up, but I think I've learned that it's the only way to get what I want." Wow. Deep breaths. That one made a lot of sense, too, and wow, what a hard thing to live with right? I can't imagine how awful it must feel to think that the only way to get what you want is to destroy everything around you. She then said "It's just how I am (pause), right now." I just congratulated her for saying "right now" and said that must feel really confusing, but it's a really big deal that you could say "right now" and not internalize this too much.

So, total disaster, and totally unnecessary disaster, but I tried really hard to reiterate a few things with her (again this morning before work, because she brought it up):

1. For someone who has been struggling to say what she wants, for fear that it's just mirror what someone else wants, she very firmly was able to articulate that she does not want to go back to our MC. I validated that and congratulated her on making a good choice for her.

2. Some people really suck at dealing with the issues we've been talking about. Finding the right therapist with the right skills is extremely important.

3. No one, BPD or not, deserves to feel backed into a corner and beaten down, especially in therapy. If a therapist is going to do that as part of their method, then they also need to have a method to bring someone back up before the session ends. That did not happen.

For me, some of the takeaways have been a bit harder. Mostly, the more my wife trusts me to show me some of these things about her, the more I can see how not ok she is and how impossible a relationship is with her right now, beyond one mostly of caregiving (when she lets me and when it fits my boundaries). She went off the deep end really fast and crashed really hard, so I've been urging her to work with a therapist on her own for a month before deciding to file for divorce or not, just to get out of the immediate crisis. Last night, I could see why she feels like I have to be gone from her life. It's really hard to accept, and I will accept it because I love her deeply, but yeah, last night was a sh*t show and I almost feel like the MC was doing it for me (to see how broken she is) than it was for her (to help her feel less broken). I know there are a lot of therapists out there who will tell you to run, and I know why, but I don't run. I can accept and let go, but that's really different than running.

So anyways - just needed to vent. Have any of you had bad experiences with therapists? I've had my own bad experiences, but being a non, it's not as big of a deal - I just find a new one and move on after it's clear that the relationship isn't going to work. It's not all or nothing for me.

Wishing you all as much peace as possible right now,

-L

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[juju2]

 Hi,

am in couples counseling, we separated in march, we were toxic to one another, he is dBPD,
we had been together 10yrs, living together 9.
the separation has been very hard.  we saw eachother weekly for the first 7 months, we went on trips together, i thought we were working on ourselves and the r/s... .mid october he went no contact.  I didnt know what was going on.  He finally told me he was seeing other people... .it was devastating to me.

prior to this happening, we agreed to go to counseling.   Couldnt get appt til end nov, he agreed to go.

she is amazing, she knows about BPD, she has 2 family members w that.  i made a request that we could focus on the positive, bec him and me were way to deep w all the negative... .she agreed.
he wanted me to know at the 2nd visit, he just wanted to be friends, wanted to see me once a week for coffee, which is what the T suggested.

Here we are 2 months later, the T said we have made so much progress, our body language, the way we talk to one another, it amazing.  he used to always say, we are just friends, like he had to keep reminding me.   He doesnt do that anymore.  at the session last nite, he told me how many thing i had done for him and his family that he was grateful for... .!(before that i was painted black)

2weeks ago i got the book Divorce Remedy, my friend suggested it.  am halfway thru, i think it is very excellent for anyone who wants to work on their r/s.  It talks about what kind of T to find also... .
This community has really helped also!

hang in there.   my T says baby steps and patience, both critical.
j

[pearlsw]

For me, some of the takeaways have been a bit harder. Mostly, the more my wife trusts me to show me some of these things about her, the more I can see how not ok she is and how impossible a relationship is with her right now, beyond one mostly of caregiving (when she lets me and when it fits my boundaries). She went off the deep end really fast and crashed really hard, so I've been urging her to work with a therapist on her own for a month before deciding to file for divorce or not, just to get out of the immediate crisis. I know there are a lot of therapists out there who will tell you to run, and I know why, but I don't run. I can accept and let go, but that's really different than running.

So anyways - just needed to vent. Have any of you had bad experiences with therapists? I've had my own bad experiences, but being a non, it's not as big of a deal - I just find a new one and move on after it's clear that the relationship isn't going to work. It's not all or nothing for me.

Hi lighthouse9,

Thank you for this thoughtful and detailed post. A few of the sentences really resonated with me! This notion of the other person not really being equipped to be having a relationship at this time, and being a person who does not run.

I am wondering where you are at the moment? Is the plan to get your partner into DBT therapy and then follow it up later with couple's counseling?

Personally, I've never gotten much out of the attempts I've made to talk with therapists that I couldn't have gotten just talking to a good friend who knows me well and has the ability to listen and guide me to talking out my options in life. I nevertheless imagine it can be very helpful, when funds allow, to have private/neutral person you can sort of outsource some aspect of your life to and deal with things and then go on about your day. But, again, perhaps I have just not seen the full value. With BPD though... .oh how I wish I had someone who could help my "h" and I make a difference if we stay together. He makes my life so miserable, takes away a lot of the joy I try to generate suddenly and out of nowhere... .it's not an easy/dream life in my case, that is for sure.

Do you think her having DBT therapy could make a difference? Sounds like she has some self-awareness and willingness to try to improve which is huge!