When is it helping vs. spying

[Ulysses]

Ok, I haven't posted in awhile.  I'm finishing up my graduate school, working full-time plus 2 other part-time jobs.  Feeling good about what I'm accomplishing.  Car accident sidelined me a bit last year.  Thankful for this board and wishing I could give back more. 

Here's a background about my question.

*Babysitter (a friend of one of my relatives) for the last 3 years also watches our children at exH house sometimes.  One day/week babysitter takes D9 to activity close to exH house (we exchange on this day).  Babysitter asked exH if she could bring D9 to his house, hang out there, take child to activity.  ExH said yes according to babysitter.  D9 and babysitter told me this.  D9 plays an instrument and sets goals for minutes per week practicing.  Also has homework.  I told D9 and babysitter maybe D9 could use the time to complete homework and practice.  Before they were doing this, babysitter would take her to a cafe or to the activity early and they'd sit in her car in the parking lot.  ExH in the past refused to let them come to my home between school and activity (about 1.5 hours).

This week exH wife was home and when babysitter suggested to D9 that she practice, wife "gave a funny look" (babysitter's words) and asked why the babysitter would say that.  She said because D9's mom asked me to.

I then get an email from wife accusing me of inviting strangers into her house.  And telling the strangers how to take care of D9. 

I called babysitter to see how she was (she has some anxiety).  She said she received a "weird" text from exH.  She was upset enough by it to show her parents.  Babysitter told me and emailed me that exH told her she could bring D9 there, hang out, etc.  I asked her if she's comfortable, to send me a screenshot of the text so I can share it with D9 therapist.  She did and told me she doesn't think D9 witnessed the weirdness but that S14 did and he read the text.

Here's my question:

Then babysitter voluntarily told me she witnesses things that are weird, uncomfortable, and in her opinion not good for children when she's there.  She's never told me this before.  I've never asked about what goes on in his place. 

I asked babysitter for one example if she was comfortable.  She told me about an incident where babysitter and D9 were joking about if someone snapped and murdered the construction worker because traffic was so bad (ok, not cool with me, but first I've heard of it), and exH said, "and what do you do when the police find you?"  They said jokingly, "couldn't help it, traffic was so bad."  His reply was, "NO!  You tell the police that you want to speak with your "F-ING" lawyer!"  Except he said the whole word.  To a 9 year old. 

Do I ask the babysitter to write down other past instances of this type of behavior so I can give it to D9 therapist?  I want to support my children, but I'm worried this is a creepy or invasive thing to do. 

Maybe I tell the therapist about this incident and let her decide?

Anyone here have experience with this or feedback?  Thanks.

[Mutt]

I’d suggest to bring it up with T maybe one example is good enough to get an idea of the behaviour maybe she’ll need more. I think the funny look from exH’s wife is because she likely thought that they weren’t doing enough schoolwork with D9. It sounds like they were ashamed.

[Ulysses]

I think the funny look from exH’s wife is because she likely thought that they weren’t doing enough schoolwork with D9.

I hadn't thought of that, and I appreciate you pointing it out.  ExH has a record going back to when D was in 1st grade of not doing homework.  The teachers each year have talked to him about it, and I worked with the school counselor on it.  D used to almost cry when I'd pick her up from her time with her dad, when she'd open her backpack and see her incomplete hw.  I tried to help her catch up but it was a struggle and I felt like an enforcer and didn't think it was healthy for D6. After meeting with the teacher and counselor that year, they suggested for our relationship health to not try to get done what she  missed when at her dad's.  She's older now and is good at organizing and getting things done on her own.

I also like the idea of giving the T one example and letting her follow up. 

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Ulysses,

I can relate to frustrations around inconsistencies when it comes to co parenting.  My ex partner has used foul language in front of my 4 year old and I know this because my 4 year old has repeated it in my presence.  Very upsetting.  Of course as his mother I want more for him than exposure to that at such a young age.  I too have been working hard to compensate for the things that go amiss when my S4 is with his father, and it can be very tiring to say the least.  Specifically in my case it's around routine, acceptable behaviour and maintaining clear boundaries. 

I'm sorry to hear that you find yourself in this uncomfortable position.  It sounds like you're taking a very cautious and thoughtful approach to addressing this.  Do let us know how it goes.

Love and light x

[livednlearned]

Hi Ulysses,

Nice to hear from you! Hope your graduate studies are going well, and I admire you so much for hanging in there while holding down two jobs, and raising a family 

Do I ask the babysitter to write down other past instances of this type of behavior so I can give it to D9 therapist?  I want to support my children, but I'm worried this is a creepy or invasive thing to do. 

It's always so hard when we're trying to co-parent with someone who has different values (not to mention a mental illness  )

Do you have concerns that the T is not aware that D9's dad has psychological issues?

One way to avoid slipping into a drama triangle is to stress test. The T will know whether she wants to know more -- you can ask her.

Meaning, maybe you call (better than writing things down, I would guess... .) and arrange a time to talk. Then be brief, let her know that the babysitter shared some things with you, and you aren't sure what to do with that information. If the T wants to talk to the babysitter, then she can take it from there.

Otherwise, you invite the T into a drama triangle that she may not want to participate in. It tells her your focus is on D9, and not on fanning the conflict.

As an aside, I'm kinda wondering what the T might think about the babysitter's conversation about someone murdering a construction worker. 

There's probably context for this, but in print it comes off as a bit questionable.

[Ulysses]

Yes, I'm trying to balance things, not violate my principles or anyone's boundaries, and yet do what I can to support D.

I agree I'm not going to forward things in writing.  I'll see the T in about 1.5 weeks and will talk to her then.

Thank you for your replies.