Starting a new chapter. I have no idea where things will go from here

[formflier]

Regarding that last interaction.

Were you an in person witness to this?  Were your kids present to see this?

Tell me about YOUR decision not to say anything?

Preview:  I used to be that way... .so I do understand.  By my choice, I'm estranged from my wife's FOO.  It's a well known "fact" that I'm open to a relationship with them if they would like to apologize and reconcile for their actions... . 

I had sort of been two different people, a "rougher" guy that was a Naval Aviator and could easily hold my own in that realm and then a relaxed, kinda passive guy at home... .(passive about conflict)  I would have plans for kids and family that I "pushed".

Then BPD came... .that was perplexing for  few years.  Then I started to figure it out.  Then I figured out that when you could "agree" with people and "validate" a worldview... to my benefit... .well... perhaps I went overboard.  Who knows.

Anyway... .I'm really not an ass... .but I play one really well when needed.  

Caught my oldest nephew downstairs vaping/lying about it and kicked him out of the house.  He knows I'll accept him back if he comes to me to apologize.  I don't chase apologies... .I'm about the only accountability in his life.  He ain't ever coming back.

Finally got tired of MIL and FIL shenanigans... .told them to leave house and on separate occasion called police about FIL and others in family.

Haven't spoken to or socialized with them in about 2 years... .absolutely improved my quality of life.


FF

[Enabler]

1000% agree it's multi-generational... .after said funeral incident I managed to catch a glass of Rose in the garden with W... .

Enabler - What did you think about that?
W - What?
Enabler - Your mums behaviour
W - <shrugs shoulders>
Enabler - Well I thought it was utterly inappropriate and I was quite angry, did that happen a lot when you were younger?
W - Yes, all through my teenage years and before

She went to T in 2007 and approached her parents about their behaviour. Her Mum  said "I have no idea what you're talking about". Dad said nothing.

I am angry with her father as he's complicit in the abuse. He's said before when I asked him how he doesn't react to MIL and his response was "she doesn't mean it"... .well little W didn't know that when she was a kid did she!

Sorry, I've hijacked the thread a bit here. So, her parents can also Enable the divorce. Either because they don't say anything responsible like "What the heck are you doing?" or as complicate as funding lawyers, going with her to meetings, offering up their home or arranging meetings. Yes, this is "helpful" but they are in essence allowing them to not take the full burden of their decisions as an adult. There could also be an attempt to make up for errors of the past.

[Enabler]

Were you an in person witness to this?  Were your kids present to see this?

Tell me about YOUR decision not to say anything?

I missed 20 seconds of it as I was taking the bins out. The kids were present.

I JADE'd on behalf of us both and said that I didn't know anything about the change in pick up timings. What I didn't do was address the inappropriate nature of the attack. Why? Several reasons, I was not prepared for such an onslaught, I had been informed that W wanted a divorce 2 months before in Apr17 and was definitely considered an outsider so didn't think it was appropriate to "act all abusive to her mother" (which would have been MIL, FIL and likely W's reaction). I was in effect the only person to stand up for her.

She made her excuses to escape and went and bathed D4... .I went up there an put my hand on her shoulder as she lent over the bath (crying). When she turned round I said nothing but shook my head. I went back downstairs to MIL and FIL (MIL still really revved up) and she announces "I guess we should probably go now" to which I rather frostily said "yeah, I think you probably should".

I regret not calling her and him out on it even if it brought my marriage to an even hastier demise. I am angry with myself for not seeing the dynamic before and making more of a stand.

I have witness numerous instances since of her attacking her husband... .but that's his problem. I raised them with W as the kids were present. 

[BeagleGirl]

How are things going today DaddyBear?  Hoping that you are enjoying a respite from the drama and some time with D4.

[DaddyBear77]

First of all, JoeBPD81, thank you so much everything you wrote in your reply - I hope that all you say is true, it's so hard for me to look at myself, especially in the midst of all this, but I will trust you. Please also know that, it takes one to know one. I can see clearly how kind and loving you are and I really appreciate that you're here. Thank you.
 
BeagleGirl, thank you for your question - yes, the thing is, it's a very disorienting feeling the way the fights just stopped. I came home from this trip, we had 3 or 4 nights where my wife tried to pressure me into the sole custody agreement, I said no, she got angry and walked out, and then, suddenly, she stopped fighting. And it's been that way for an entire week now. I had a long weekend off, so I had the joy and the privilege to spend almost 72 uninterrupted hours with my daughter. My wife pretty much stayed away the whole time, which is pretty normal for her. She doesn't really like to spend time with our daughter. I never really noticed that before. I was always so busy seeing what I wanted to see. But it's true.

So, Enabler, that's a great hijack - thank you! I'm really sorry you had to go through this all. You are spot on to say that there are external forces at work here. I've mentioned this on other threads, but about 2 years ago my wife decided she was being abused in our relationship. Emotionally, but over the past few months she's convinced herself that there's physical abuse in the form of "intimidation" she likes to say. Oh, she's also claimed I'm financially abusive. I'm almost giddy to think about how that one will play out if she makes the claim to a judge.

ANYway, so, yeah, once she decided she was abused, she went to the local women's crisis center and was assigned a counselor. She's been to this counselor's office every week for 2 years. Also, over the past year, my wife has sought out validation and support from many friends, on and off line, for her view that I'm a misogynist and a sexist.

Add all this up, and yes, I do believe there's a risk here. However, I still don't feel that proactively filing is the right thing to do, unless I really decide that it's what *I* want to do.

As Notwendy said, I will not follow my wife's lead on this. It's a new thing for me, because in the past I really HAVE let her lead the show. I've bent over backwards and gone against so many of my own values, just to "make peace" or to try and make her happy. This is why it was such a big deal for me to say "absolutely not" in regards to custody.

In regards to the ring, ya know, I think I'm going to let that go. It might come up some day, it might not. If she wants me to notice it, and I'm not doing what she wants, I'm sure she'll come right out and mention it some time. There are serious negative associations with the three most expensive jewelry items she owns. Lets just say that even though I did want her to have the nicest things, the way we both went about acquiring them was completely careless and has caused me serious financial trouble. Let me also say that financially speaking, there's a very good chance she will be able to walk away from the associated debt without a bit of responsibility.  That's up in the air somewhat. But the point is, these beautiful pieces of symbolism that should have bee sacred in our marriage have been turned into financial lightning rods.

So I guess I can understand why it's hard for her to wear them.

For what it's worth, I still wear my ring. I wear it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. It's the same ring she put on my finger the day we were married 15 years ago. I remember the day we walked into the jewelry store to buy them together. We were such young kids, in our mid 20s, both just starting our careers. We didn't have a whole lot of money, but we knew we wanted matching platinum bands. We had matching inscriptions put on the inside which we decided on the spot. THIS ring means a lot to me. It will be a very sad day if I need to take it off.

Hope is a hard thing to let go of. When you peel back all the anger and resentment and confusion and anxiety, though, I can see it's still firmly in place. It's who I am, though, so it's not likely to change.

Thanks everyone - I'm hanging in there.

[RolandOfEld]

Hope is a hard thing to let go of. When you peel back all the anger and resentment and confusion and anxiety, though, I can see it's still firmly in place. It's who I am, though, so it's not likely to change.

DaddyBear77 what a beautiful thought and feel like I'm coming in to this thread one post too late (I was on Chinese New Year "vacation" until yesterday and am catching up on a week of missed posts). Thank you for sharing this and I really hope for the best result. I too much admire how you stood your ground about your daughter and it gives me courage. This vacation I realized I might be in a place like yours some time soon, but it will probably be me suggesting the split (expect a post on this).   

I feel like everyone has already said more useful things than I can add but I hope I can still weigh in on a few items.

My wife blocks me on every social media each time we have a big argument. I think its a power thing. It's very awkward to ask to be added back each time after its over. And it hurts despite how silly it is.

Agree with everyone about not signing the papers yourself. After all you're not the one suggesting a divorce. Let her do all the heavy lifting on this and follow through if its what she really wants.

I too sense she got a feel for the thrill of the single life, mostly because it means no good-hearted husband reflecting all of her bad behaviors back at her. I remember being newly married with my wife often bringing up living apart and seeing other people just because she wanted to be free. She would talk about it casually but it was so deeply hurtful. Wish I had the BPD perspective in those days. 

Thank you again for all the support you've shown me since I got here and hope I can continue to offer mine as you enter this new chapter of your life.

~ROE

[JoeBPD81]

Hope is a hard thing to let go of. When you peel back all the anger and resentment and confusion and anxiety, though, I can see it's still firmly in place. It's who I am, though, so it's not likely to change.

I've been thinking about the nature of hope a lot these last 3 years. They say it is the last thing you lose.

I'm seeing it as a continuum. In one extreme things are going well, you don't even need hope, because you can see for yourself things are working out. ---Then there is a place where there are problems but you know, from experience, or knowledge, that they can be fixed, and they probably will. ---Then there is the place where most of us are: We don't really know if the situation can be fixed, but we hope.  ---But after that there is a place where we no longer really hope, but we want to hope (I think I'm there).

[Enabler]

ANYway, so, yeah, once she decided she was abused, she went to the local women's crisis center and was assigned a counselor. She's been to this counselor's office every week for 2 years. Also, over the past year, my wife has sought out validation and support from many friends, on and off line, for her view that I'm a misogynist and a sexist.

Add all this up, and yes, I do believe there's a risk here. However, I still don't feel that proactively filing is the right thing to do, unless I really decide that it's what *I* want to do.

Random Bible Verses - Verse for today... .

1 Peter 5:8-9 (Listen)
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 9 Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world.

How appropriate!

The above is a risk especially since it is so well "documented" by the rescue centre. I'm not suggesting for a second that you should proactively apply for the divorce unless this is something you choose you want. I am in a startlingly similar position to you and have chosen at this point not to petition for divorce but set boundaries around other things happening in the divorce process without the petition by her in place... .these are to protect myself and the kids from her choices.

So many similarities between us... .I still wear the platinum band, have never taken it off, engraved on the inside, married for 16.5yrs, married early 20's. I still have hope as this all feels to bizarre to be real. I'm a firm believer that sanity has to prevail... .doesn't it? I know... .it doesn't.

[Enabler]

Annnnnd the next one

2 Timothy 1:7
7 For God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.

[Notwendy]

My mother also didn't want to spend time with her kids. Being around kids is wonderful but it takes emotional work and a focus on the child which is not her thing. We had sitters when my father was at work, but after school and weekends were with him. He took us to the park, movies, and other activities while our mother stayed at home or did other things. I think this is one reason we were more bonded to him than to her, which she also didn't like but it is the consequence of spending time with a child. I am sure your D loves her times with you.

I am glad you stood up for custody of your D and not allowed your wife to have sole custody. That was a selfish arrangement on her part and your D might have thought you didn't want her.

I also like that you have decided to follow your own lead on this. I don't have a quote as divinely inspired at a Bible one, but it is some wise words from Dr. Phil to a family: "You are all lost in the woods and looking to a disordered person to lead you out? "  

[formflier]

Back to the Enabler hijack,

I would not suggest "calling her out", I would suggest being obvious about protecting your children, your wife and yourself.

That would mean something like announcing "This is not for our children to be part of (or something like that) and taking them upstairs, outside or something like that."

Since it is your house... ."We don't speak this way in this house."  (perhaps say this first).

Stay away from "you  shouldn't... ."

FF

[formflier]

Boundaries are number 1 tool.

Proverbs 4:23 

New International Version
Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it.

FF

[Red5]

My beloved Grandmother whom lived to age ninety one , whom we all called "Granny", as this is what you call your grandmother down in the south... .she used to tell me quite often when "I were a lad"... ."boy, count your many blessings; name them one by one, and pretty soon you'll realize just what the Good Lord hath done".

She was very wise, very sweet, and very hardened to the world, raised eight kids, and survived trough the great depression, she was tough as nails !... .she also used to quote this from her old KJV Bible, which I actually have now in my home, and treasure... .

I used the NKJV here... .

Philippians 4:11-13 New King James Version (NKJV)

11.) Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content:  

12.) I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.  

13.) I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

Red5

[BeagleGirl]

Wise words from Dr. Phil to a family: "You are all lost in the woods and looking to a disordered person to lead you out? "  

I LOVE those wise words.

[I Am Redeemed]

Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer.

Romans 12:12

[BeagleGirl]

Galatians 6:9

So let's not get tired of doing what is good. At just the right time we will reap a harvest of blessing if we don't give up.

[Grey Kitty]

  Hang in there man!

This jumped out at me... .

... .about 2 years ago my wife decided she was being abused in our relationship. Emotionally, but over the past few months she's convinced herself that there's physical abuse in the form of "intimidation" she likes to say. Oh, she's also claimed I'm financially abusive. I'm almost giddy to think about how that one will play out if she makes the claim to a judge.

ANYway, so, yeah, once she decided she was abused, she went to the local women's crisis center and was assigned a counselor. She's been to this counselor's office every week for 2 years. Also, over the past year, my wife has sought out validation and support from many friends, on and off line, for her view that I'm a misogynist and a sexist.

And remember, with BPD for her, feelings = facts. She feels like she is being abused. It is real to her. She can and will speak of it with conviction. (Never mind reality)

With things taken out of context, or outright fabrications, she could well ask for a restraining order to keep you away from her and your daughter, or try to get you arrested for domestic violence. Have you read the topic on DV for men? Besides talking about men being victims of violence, which I don't think applies much to you, it covers a bit on false accusations.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=87480.0

I'd recommend you talk to your lawyer about what you can do to protect yourself from this too.

[Enabler]

Restraining orders have been mentioned to my wife and she certainly has cards for agencies offering these services in her bag. I'm not sure how high the evidence bar is for a restraining order but if your wife has been visiting a refuge for several years showing apparently genuine emotional distress and recounting "events" to them... .does that count as a body of evidence?

[formflier]

 
Enabler,

You are a guy that has some "means" at his disposal and you also have a lot to protect.

Have you interviewed several Ls and picked one that you like?  This seems like something you would want to get ahead of, or have someone ready to go at a moments notice.

On the one hand, several years and she has actually done nothing (which is good).  On the other hand, her feelings get out of whack, she actually files for divorce and pulls a "trick" based on her "evidence"... .that could take some undoing.

Whatever the local laws about this, you need to be right on top of them.  Especially when it comes to "proving" yourself innocent.

FF

[Enabler]

Morning FF,

I'm acutely aware of this, although the number of potentially negative paths she could take are increasing day by day the more I read this blog which I'm not going to deny is frightening. I'm also aware that I have pretty much damned myself by many of the begging emails I have written prior to really having a clue what was going on. Being conditioned for 20yrs that it was always my fault and the only way "it" was going to stop was for me to wear 99% of the guilt and shame, I have sent a fair number of damning beg letters/emails. Since proving otherwise would be somewhat he said she said I have pretty much accepted I'm up sheet creek without a paddle.

As things stand she wants to go down the harmonious amicable legal mediation approach, which suits IF this divorce is actually going to happen. She has threatened to go down the lawyer route but I defused that by telling her she could do that if she wanted to. Calmly stating what is reasonable based on the professional mediators advice has worked. I also struggle with escalating the process even to the point of risking her finding out that I had sought outside legal council since I feel this contradicts what I want... .no divorce, no lawyers, love and happiness forever and ever. I have a few lawyer friends who have sought advice for me from their specialist colleagues, plus, there's no shortage of experience in London's financial circles of guys who've had similar experiences.

[Cat Familiar]

And remember, with BPD for her, feelings = facts. She feels like she is being abused. It is real to her. She can and will speak of it with conviction. (Never mind reality)

I agree with Grey Kitty that this is something you should take very seriously.

Having gone through a divorce with a volatile BPDh, I discovered later what a pack of lies he was peddling around town about me. I have my faults and probably the most serious one is my ability to be disengaged, which has been a very useful strategy since I've always had a pwBPD person in my life from the day I was born. Another aspect of me is that I can be overly forgiving, kind and helpful--which can really backfire with a pwBPD.

So here's how I discovered he was trash talking me: After my divorce I started participating in a woman's group, run by my therapist. I got to know my fellow participants quite well. After one of the sessions, I discovered that one woman was working at the same place as my ex's new girlfriend. I mentioned this and her face turned white. "So you're G's ex-wife? I'm going to have to re-think everything I've heard about you."

Some months later after he had broken up with that girlfriend, this woman told me G was trash talking her too.

[formflier]

You are in circular thinking

I can't go to a lawyer because if she finds out I will be screwed, so I'll worry about her screwing me out of tons of money just like all those other guys that were too scared to go to a lawyer.

Or something like that.

Private consultation... find one you like and learn the facts. 

Do you toss a dart at the financial section and buy whatever it hits... .or do you do research? 

Same thing.  You will find out some things that will worry you more and you will find out some things were she is bluffing.

Your past is your past.  Focus on the future.

FF

[Radcliff]

DB,

It's been a while.  How are you doing?

WW

[DaddyBear77]

DB,

It's been a while.  How are you doing?

WW

Thanks, WW - Click here for your answer

[RolandOfEld]

I am locking this thread because it has reached its length limit. The post originator is welcomed to open a continuation thread on this topic.  Have a great day.