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Author Topic: My father wanted to call DFS about abuse of the children  (Read 404 times)
Serenitywithin
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« on: February 21, 2018, 01:19:35 PM »

First Off I love my Wife, I have been trying to help her see there is something going on with how she perceives things in the world differently than everyone else? Since we have been married I have never been able to really talk to her about things, and especially about things that are contrary to what she thinks or in conflict with something she thinks. any time we have had an argument, it ends with her yelling at me that I am never going to change and everything is her fault and leave me alone, or  I want a divorce!. SO I have recognized that she has a lot of anxiety about things and have taken to doing most things around the house and for our children.

I get the kids up and ready for school, I do most of the shopping and most of the cooking. I do the dishes, and most of the time the laundry.  I have always done these things to ensure to keep her anxiety levels down to keep her from blowing up on me or the kids. I have always thought that I was protecting the children in this way but she still does blow up and will even cuss at me or the kids in one of her rages. I try to take arguments into a bedroom with closed doors so the children do not have to hear them, but she is unable to control her temper and storms out yelling and often just leaves , or start the silent treatment. We are a christian family and are kids are in bible quizzing and learn the word all the time. and when Mommy starts cussing at them or at me it confuses them.

She also seems to lie a lot and I dont even think she is aware of it, or is not lying in her eyes because she believes things to be true. We can be in a room with people and hear the same conversation and she will regurgitate something completely different the next day in a reflecting conversation. I have always had to go to the Dr with her for herself and the kids because there have been times she takes kids to dr and I ask what they said and it does not sound right so I call the doctor to get their orders and it is something completely different that what my wife is saying. Or she has told me I dont really remember what the Dr said? So i have to call and get the info.

I have never minded doing these extra things because I do love her, but a lot of times I have wondered what else she may be lying about? Several years ago I saw a text message from one of her ex'es that she lived with previous to our relationship, and she had told me she had kept sleeping with him after he was married. I asked her about it and she said oh Me and the kids ran into him and his son at the Mcdonalds playplace. I later looked at phone records and she had been texting and having long conversations on the phone with him for about two months before "meeting at McDonalds" I will never know if there was an infidelity that occured beyond an emotional one? I asked her what she wanted during that episode trying to see if she wanted to go back to this guys who cheated on her regularly or not and her response was I dont know what I want. about a week later she broke off all communication with him but never really apologized to me about it. I forgave and forgot, but recent events are now stirring the pot.

Last year she insisted we have another child. I gave n and we went off birth control. Pregnant Immediately. We now have an almost 7 month old daughter who I adore, but am fearful for her future because of things that have come to light with my other children recently.

After she gave birth to this child she, I believe became post partem and has acted crazy ever since. It is some of the same things she has always done, but intensified. She had a meltdown with my mom who has all but done the mothering for our other 3 children since they were little as my wife was never able to cope with the stress of the important things. She is always doing special or grandiose things for the kids to EARN their love but neglects to help them with bathing, doing the girls hair things like that, and criticizes them if their hair is not done right, but never helps and has done this since the girls stared school.?

The meltdown with my mother was over a conversation my wife had where she eviscerated my 12 year old in front of my parents about lying about a toy, and it was so Bad that my father called me as I was out of town and told me to make sure my wife was OK because he was wanting to call DFS on her about abuse of the children. She went back to their house a couple of days later and said she was happy and trying to apologize about getting onto Ca----- in front of them and that my mom started attacking her and comparing her to her Mom (who my wife hates as she had a terrible childhood)...

She cam home and told me how judgmental and terrible my mother was and  I was dumbfounded? I talked to my sister later who was there and witnessed it and said it was the weirdest conversation wife came in visibly upset and almost in tears and blurted out Sorry I yelled at our daughter in front of you, I know you did nto like iut but what should I do. I was told that mom was tryign to explain to her that the way you yell at her makes a big difference, trying to not be accusatory or getting in her face would help, and she was trying to explain that the way someone is raised has a lot to do with how they parent and the way they see things.(In aloving manor) wife heard the way your raised and quit listening.

My sister said she snatched the baby out of my mothers hands and said fine and walked out. My sister said her an mom just looked at one another like what just happened?  I believe this version of the story because it lines up with how she acts at home to conversations.  She heard somethign about her childhood, even though it was a general comment she took it as a JOB at her and she heard and even said that my MOM used the workds that your Kids act the way they do because of how you act and it is all your fault? Mom and sister siad nothing like that ever came out of moms mouth? But she does this to me every time I disagree with her she hears different words completly and then hods a grudge.

After this episode, She kept the kids from my mother and even let the kids know she was mad at Grandma, completely inappropriate. The kids have stayed with grandma a couple of times aweek since they were babies and are now ripped away and it is effecting them.

I tried to continue with life as usual even though everything at the holidays and visits to moms house were stressful and wife just sulking in the corner and not talking to anyone. I went hunting and took K---- and even my daughter. But found out that during one of my hunting trips mom was raging over the house being a mess, Specifically her craftroom, and walkign around the house ranting and raving and the girls were scared. Apparently they have been telling my mom and my grandparents that they get scared of mom when I am away from the house and that she is mean to them. E---, told mom and grandma that mom is specifically mean to C------ all the time.

During this rant she walked into our daughters room where the blinds are torn up a little and have been for over a year, and then ranted at my 8 year old daughter that her room is disgusting, and the blinds are torn up, you want to tear up your blind, I will tear up your blinds and walked over to the blinds while raging and started cutting them up with a pair of scissors that she had walked into the room with!... My daughters were texting MAMA about this in real-time and she was replying , just dont do anything to upset Mommy , and daddy will be home shortly. Mom was afraid to tell me about it because I get defensive and make excuses for my wife all of the time. When I heard this I was scared and heartbroken, I have not left the house for the weekend since and am afraid to leave the kids alone for more than a few hours. Apparently the kids have been talking to mom and grandma for over a year about this stuff and that they dont like when I take their little brother to the cabin because they dont want to be alone with mom for the weekend if she gets in one of her moods.

I Talked to wife about this about a month later and she looked me in the Eye and said that never happened? Then a couple of weeks ago when I was confronting her with some things she has been doing, I said I know the scissor things with the blinds happened even though you said it did not, She then Looked at me and told me she never said she did nto do that with the scissors? She cant remember which lies or storys she has talked about and what she has not?

She has also said on many occasion with our 12 year old daughter in the room, that she is through with her and get out of hear I cant even look at you right now. My 12 year old is convinced her mom hates her, and now she hates her mom. During arguments she has said a few times, I will just kill myself! I am scared as hell and trying to fix her broken emotional state. The wife says she is just being dramatic to get a rise out of you and it is working?

I finally got her to see her issue a bit in December when I Told her that it is not just me and my family that have seen how she treats our son differently or how she is mean to the girls? She pressed me to know who else said stuff, I divulged that her best friend told her husband about a week ago that she has noticed the way She talks to our 12 years old lately, makes you wonder if she even likes her own kid? This made her break down and get the 12 year old out of bed late at night and lay in the floor crying and apologizing. She wanted to start a goal of not yelling but she is still giving the 12 year old dirty looks and brushing off everything she says and is mad that she wants to go do stuff all of the time? I said she is 12 she wants to hang out with Friends and other people besides us? She is mad at the kids for just being kids.

She broke down and wanted to go to our pastors for counseling , I said lets go and she changed her mind. She does not want to talk. Then after a fight a week later she said we are going to talk to pastors tonight? I was thrilled. We were there 3 hours and she admitted to being mean to the girls, and that she pushed them away because she is jealous of their relationship with my mom, and she also admitted that she does not know how to love her 12 year old right now! Pastors Wife explained that since she hates the relationship she had with her mom, that things need to change or she is going to create the same thing with her own kids and that she knows she does not want that.  Wife agreed.

Next Day, I was accused of lying in front of the pastors, and then told that they just agreed with everything I said and they took my side on everything, and that they are Biased because they have known my family longer than her and that she is never going back to them because they are biased against her? I was lost.

she agreed to start letting kids go to moms and grandmas and that she would not get mad but that she did not want them over there more than twice a week. But every time I or one of the kids asked she had a smirk on her face and a look of hate. So it was hard to ask and she always said no or made an excuse about needed to go do something , most of the time which she did not do.

I finally got her to agree in January 5 months later to go have a sit down with mom so she could explain what was trying to be said during their first conversation and that she hadnt been attacking her. We were there for almost 4 hours the fist 3 hours was Mom trying to get wife to open up and explain why she hated her so bad. wife continued attacking mom and saying she was done with her and did not need her in her life, and mom was trying to explain she loves her and has always tried to show it. wife cant see all of the parties and gifts , and showers that mom has thrown for her over the years because her own family does not as things to include her.

Wife finally said She was so mad at Mom because when our oldest was a baby that she had taken her to get her stomach pumped while we were out of town and never told us. I have heard this story before and told  wife I dont remember that and thought she drempt it like so many other things over the years? Mom was floored and had no idea what she was talking about and told me to get records because that never happened. wife finally broke down and said she was at her lowest and that she was sorry and that she knows she needs to changed and admitted to everything. Then they hugged it out and mom held her as the wife wept in her arms for 30 minutes. The wife asked her to pray with her and I thought we were getting somewhere.

The next morning Wife drove straight to the old pediatrician to get medical records... They are paper so it will take a week to get them. She also was mad at mom for telling her I do all the cooking and cleaning. So she would not let me do anythign and continued to say well I will do it so no one thinks i am lazy or whatever...

A week later the medical records came back and it never happened. I hoped this would prove to her there was an issue and she needed counseling but it didn't she said well I must have heard the DR wrong?(What you had a detailed story about all the stuff he said and that he threatened to call DFS if she did not know what her babsitter was doing when she was gone) ... I told her that hse had already agreed to go to counseling several times and admitted she is being mean to the kids on several occasions but then backtracks and makes excuses.I said to her who do you wnat us to go see for counesling and she went into a rage and told me to go and she didnt need it.

I said if that is how you feel then me and the kids will stay here and you need to pack a bag and go somewhere fora day or two to think about what you want. This turned into WW3 in the house. I had to plug our nest cams back in that she had ripped out the other day so there would be proof I wasnt hitting her or anything because she was so hot and threatening to call the cops. I had my parents come over to keep the kids away from what was going on.  For the next two hours she wnet on like a lunatic telling me we are through, that she hated me, to grow a pair and quit calling mommy everytime there is an issue, told me to get off moms tit. it was really just Bizzare. After two hours of this she calmed down and said she will see someone.

Then she went up and took the girls in her room I went up and she was holding my 9 yr old telling her none of this is your fault, this is all my Fault because I am a bad mom and a terrible person, so my 9 year old is saying no mom your not a bad person it is OK and you are a good mom. She is even apologizing to them in a way that makes my kids feel bad for her and that she is the victim... .I let that go for now to try to keep some peace. But I tried to hold the baby while she was crying with the girls and she Said "No NO O" your trying to take her and leave, I was like no I am not I will sit right here next to you on the bed and not leave the room, she is paranoid I am trying to take the kids away! SO she is delusional, She thinks I am taking the kids away and even when confronted with evidence with things she has been mad about for ten years that did not happen and now she knows did not happen she twists the story to rationalize her story and that she must have heard the DR wrong.

I finally after giving ultimatums have her going to counseling with me tonight. But she is going for couples counseling and thinks we need to work on communication. While that is true, I cant communicate with her without her hearing what  she wants to and taking things the wrong way, I am hoping the counselor can help her get on track in seeing that there is an issue with her perception and get her to come to the realization that she needs help? It is effecting my kids and I do not want a divorce but if I have to divorce, I would have to take the kids to protect them? I would feel Horrible. I love
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Tattered Heart
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2018, 02:08:32 PM »

Welcome,

I'm so sorry that you've had so much going on in your home. You've found a place for help and support. It's good that your W has agreed to counseling. I hope she sticks with it. In the event that she changes her mind, what will you do if she decides not to continue counseling?

It sounds like your parents have been pretty involved in your life and are helpful in many ways. It's great to have such a big support system. Your W has made accusations about your parents being too involved. Is there any truth to her accusations?

Someone with BPD view the world through a lens of rejection. When someone says or does something that causes them to feel shame, such as questioning their parenting style/choices, then they often lash out at that person with anger. Even if the rejection is not real, to the pwBPD what they perceive is the reality, regardless of what the truth is. Since perceptions change as quickly as moods, their reality changes also. That could account for her changing stories. It could also be that she is just trying to avoid shame.

There's a lot going on in your situation. I can see areas where some simple changes in how you, your children, and your parents react to her could help remove some of the emotion out of conflict. But those are skills that are learned over time. To get you started though, it seems to me that your W is trying to tell you information through her behavior and that information is being lost due to the behavior she is using. It sounds like your W feels like you choose others over her, which causes her to feel rejected. One of our communication skills is called validation . This is simply letting your wife know that you are listening to her by being empathetic to what she says (not necessarily agreeing with her) and by asking her questions about what she is experiencing. In other words, asking her about what her reality is.

One last thing. When your W gets angry, from what I'm understanding, you and others spend an extraordinary amount of time listening to her yell. Exposing yourself to this behavior is traumatic to you and the children. Why not just load everyone up and leave the house for an hour or so?
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Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life Proverbs 13:12

DaddyBear77
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2018, 10:28:37 PM »

Hi Serenitywithin - wow, I am so sorry you are going through this. I'm glad you found us, but the circumstances - I wish things were better for you.

I picked up in your post that things have escalated dramatically after the birth of your last child. You suspected postpartum issues. I can tell you that my wife had a very similar escalation after the birth of our daughter 4 years ago. The issues had a long lasting effect on our relationship, and my wife had many of the same kinds of issues you're describing.

In regards to counseling and other "breakthrough" moments such as with your mother, I also heard you say that the next day she begins to accuse you of taking sides or lying. This is also very very common and something I've experienced as well. It makes it extremely difficult to make any real progress.

Tattered Heart asked the question, if she changes here mind, what will you do... .this is an important question, and one of the first questions to answer in a long line of "what if" questions.

Something that might also help you a little bit is this article on Anosognosia and Getting a "Borderline" into Therapy. It helped me understand why my attempts at getting my wife to address her BPD failed. It might help you in your current situation.

I'm really glad you found us Serentitywithin and I look forward to hearing more of your story here.

~DaddyBear77
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Notwendy
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2018, 05:59:24 AM »

Hi Serenitywithin- I read your story and it has some similarities to my own childhood growing up with a BPD mother. There is a lot of wisdom on this board and I hope it will give you insight to the patterns of behavior in your relationship.

It is a wonderful thing that your parents are involved and supportive of the children. My father's family made a genuinely positive impact on us kids and so I would like to see that continue for your children.

A model that is helpful to me is the Karpman ( drama ) triangle. In my own experience, pwBPD see things from Victim perspective and also have black and white thinking. If your parents are seen on the "rescuer" side, then the relationship could be acceptable to your wife. If she perceives them as "against her" "persecutor" then there is the risk of her cutting off contact with them and your children. This does not mean they need to be dishonest about their concerns, but that, as you see, if they do, they are not speaking to someone who will process it the way someone without BPD would. They are experiencing the same reactions you have- when you try to discuss things with her. There are tools on this board to help you ( and them) understand this and hopefully improve your communication.

I have also experienced the type of lying that you have with your wife. It is puzzling as I think your wife, like my mother, is not an amoral person. In many ways, my mother is a good person, so the story telling makes it even more confusion. I don't have an official explanation, but it may be part of emotional immaturity- a means of getting immediate gratification from the discomfort of their own bad feelings. People do make mistakes and when we do, we have a way of making amends to people. We feel bad about something and it leads us to making repairs. A person with BPD who can not manage their own bad feelings may take the fastest way out of feeling the bad ones in the moment. Once the lie is said, it is hard to backtrack.

Another explanation is that for a pwBPD a feeling seems like a fact to them, so if they had the feeling, it must be true. It doesn't seem like a lie to them if they feel something happened.

This doesn't mean pwBPD are not accountable for their behaviors or what they say. As a result of my mother's stories, I don't know what to believe or not. If it is important to me, I will fact check- like you did with the medical records for your child. However, confronting my mother with evidence has not generally been effective as it causes her to dysregulate emotionally. I think pwBPD have difficulty with apologies and prefer to "forget" the incidents.

You can do a lot with learning different communication skills. People who are in romantic relationships with pwBPD often have rescuer traits and also behaviors that can increase the drama and conflict in relationships. It is hard- possibly impossible- to change another person, but we can work on ourselves.

Your 12 year old daughter has some similarities to me at her age. It isn't about her, but the age. By 12, I knew something was going on with my mother. We didn't have the name "BPD" at the time. By 12, a child is developing their own sense of moral and behavioral ethics- you have raised her in your church and she has a sense of right and wrong. There are things she is not allowed to say ( cuss) or do, then she sees her mother doing them. You might consider counseling for your daughter. She has her sense of reality and morality challenged on a daily basis and yet, you want her to be confident in her own boundaries and values. How do you do this without making her mother wrong? A counselor can help her maintain her sense of who she is while not making her mother the "bad guy". I say this because I too, sensed that my mother disliked me, and as a teen the feeling was mutual.

I also would avoid bringing in third parties when having discussions with your wife. Saying things like "your friends have said... .to convince her is going to fuel the drama triangle. The idea "triangulation" is based on this.

As to calling DFS. If your parents are convinced of abuse, they have the right to do this. When I was a child, such agencies did not exist like they do today. You can also provide counseling for your children to help them deal with the verbal and emotional situations they face with your wife. Lastly, do not exclude yourself. Partners of pwBPD can benefit from counseling too.

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Serenitywithin
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« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2018, 03:23:17 PM »

Thank you for the kind words and Support. I am always Validating her and trying to left her up. I know she has always had self esteem issues, but I am afraid that nothing I do is ever good enough and I have in the past tried to do things to keep her happy, I have often covered up her issues with the outside and she appears to the outside to be a wonderful mother,

But just yesterday I had to have a talk with my 9 year old girl that she is scared to ask Mommy to go places and especially her grandma's house because Mommy will get mad. I had to reassure her that it is not her place to worry about that and she can ask anything she wants. I told her it is up to each person to own their anger and control it. She is internalizing everything and I am having to get on to her constantly because she has started chewing the skin off the end of her fingers as a nervous reaction. She has chewed them up until they bleed on some days. She feels everything is her fault and it is because wife tells her this in a round about way.

The only reason my parents are involved in the conflict at all is because the children have went to them and told them all the stuff going on, which apparently is much worse for my two older daughter if me and the son go away for the weekend Hunting or fishing.  She has always treated our son differently and bonded with him where she never did with either of the girls. It is almost like she is picking him as the favorite and only want to take him places or do things with him and she has admitted to be jealous of the girls relationship with my mom and sister because they have both bonded with my girls. She even admitted that she pushes the girls away because of the Jealousy... She still has not been diagnosed with anything and this is the first non pastoral counselor we went to.

The counseling session last night did not go very well but wife blew up about her childhood and some molestation that has occurred in her life and yelled it has nothing to do with this or with her relationship to me, and the couselor tried to explain to her that these things are likely part of the root of her anger. We went the full hour in therapy and it was a tough session. I turned on the recorder on my phone on the way home because I was afraid of what would be said. She literally Screamed at the top of her lungs at me for several minutes and then admitted that the kids dont talk to her and they only talk to me and I said so you can see there is a communication issue with the kids, and it can be fixed. She screamed she doesn't want to try anymore and why should she if her kids dont love her... .

I tried to tell her they do love her and that they only get frightened when she gets in one of her heightened moods and flys off the handle at them . She the n just started screaming at me that I am the reason she is like this and it is now my fault. I just let it go and tried to console her but then it just gets wacky?

SHe came home and deleted all of her pictures of me and the kids from her facebook,,, over a thousand so it took a while and then Start raging and cleaning and mumbling that Mommy will just do it all and stay up all night to get everything done around the house while holding our 6 mth old... She would not let me hold the baby or assist in any of her chores and work that she was engaging in.

Two of the kids are sick this morning and my oldest asks me why mommy is mad at her? I said she is not she may be upset with daddy. Then I get a text at work that the wife is telling her that grandma and me were just making up random numbers and that she did not have a fever? Then she was mad because of the medication I gave her to bring down fever and pain overnight. She is 12 and I gave her half dose of nyquil when the bottle calls for a full dose the daughter said she told the DR I gave her nyquil in a manor in which she was hoping the DR would say that is horrible, but then he told her that it is fine to give at her age and is actually good for the symptoms she was having.

I feel I am on a roller coaster and I really dont know what to do. I keep telling my wife I love her and she yells no you dont... I tell her I do not want a divorce and she yells yes you do it is all you want! I told her if I wanted that I would have left  long time ago but that everything I am doing is contrary to that and that I am trying to fight for our marriage and fight for her to have a good relationship with her children.
She is having none of it.
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Serenitywithin
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« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2018, 03:30:23 PM »

Thanks NOTWENDY... I have been seeing our pastor who is also a counselor. I have also told the wife that the children are also going to be going to counseling and she said fine but she still does not see anything wrong with what is going on. or she is not owning her behavior at this point. When she rages I also could not take the family and leave or she would seriously flip out. I have in the past when she has been in a mood offered to take kids to park so she can get her stuff done, but once she starts raging there is no me going anywhere with all of the kids.

Currently she is also paranoid that  I am trying to take the kids away? and will not let me go anywhere with all of them and she is clinging to the baby for dear life(I think that is part of the post partem. She is still breast feeding so her hormones are still in a state of chaos.

Her OB gave her something for post partem beginning of December when I finally got her to see that something is going on. She told me she wanted to try to control it for 30 days and then would take the meds if needed. 2 months in and she jsut tells me she does not need meds.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2018, 04:31:41 AM »

Can you get counseling for the kids?

I understand what your girls are saying to you. They don't understand that their mother has a mental illness- and they believe what she tells them when she is dysregulating.

It isn't unusual for the children to be given certain roles: Golden Child, or Scapagoat are some of them. I also have a brother who is the Golden child. I was a Scapegoat. Even thought it may appear that the Golden Child is being treated better - in the long run, this role is still dysfunctional.

My mother blamed me for the issues between her and my father. I believed her. I graduated early and went to college and I believed that my parents would finally be happy once I left- that my mother would be "normal" then and they would be happy. I didn't know she had BPD- I don't even know if that diagnosis was known then, but my parents never admitted she had a mental disorder and pretend she is "normal".

I have done pretty well as an adult but struggled with low self esteem growing up. I do not believe for a moment that my mother loves me. She also was not happy that I was closer to my father. Teens also can tend to clash with their parents, and although I was a good kid in general, I disliked her when I was a teen, and that was probably obvious. Mostly I obeyed her out of fear. She controlled with fear. If I left a toy out, she'd throw it away. Or she'd take my belongings for ransom to make me behave- first toys, then a favorite album, or later things that mattered to me as an older teen. I guess it was an incentive to get good grades in school- I wanted to leave for college.

I sometimes wonder if things would have been different if I was allowed to understand she had a mental illness. However, had that information come from my father, it may have been a form of triangulation. I think a skilled therapist would be able to help with this better.
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Tattered Heart
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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2018, 09:27:03 AM »

I tried to tell her they do love her and that they only get frightened when she gets in one of her heightened moods and flys off the handle at them . She the n just started screaming at me that I am the reason she is like this and it is now my fault. I just let it go and tried to console her but then it just gets wacky?


By trying to sooth your W's insecurities, this is trying to fix her emotions. Next time she says something like this (or about you) try validating what she is feeling not fixing it for her.

Ex:

What you are doing now:

W: The kids hate me.
You: No they don't. They love you.

Try something like this instead:
W: The kids hate me
You: I'm sorry that you feel like they hate you. It must be hard to feel unloved by your children. Is there something specifically that makes you feel hated?

This is called validation . With validation you don't have to accept what she says as true, you just accept that she is feeling it and address what she is feeling. You don't fix it. At times it feels uncomfortable to let someone sit in their own insecurity without trying to make it better but those are her feelings and they are her responsibility. Do you think this is something you could do? Try practicing it here.



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Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life Proverbs 13:12

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