Setting limits: If you rage I will leave the house

[oinoxn]

I have read that non BP should set limits.  I say I do not want to be yelled at and called names.  I usually retreat to my room and lock the door.  In a sense doesn’t that give the BPD a feeling of control or power in that their behavior of raging will cause me to cower in my room.  And if instead of going to my room I go to a hotel wouldn’t that give the BPD a feeling of greater power and control knowing I don’t want to spend $200 to sleep in a bed and that their behavior can cause me to do that? ( as I write locked in my room).

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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hi oinoxn,

It might be a good idea to review the topic of boundaries and think about how to set them.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0

I agree, cowering is not a good idea and neither is overspending on hotels. But there are other ways to approach these instances.  Are you being physically abused?

take care, pearl.

[oinoxn]

Not physically abused but continually verbally battered, raged at and threatened (ie. going to tell your ex wife you said she was a big fat liar or she is going to call or contact my daughter re a comment I made about my daughter).

I let myself get lulled into sharing feelings and thoughts that I regret I shared because when she gets mad at me I know it is very possible she will contact the people I was talking about.  So I try and to share things like that but at times I do when she is in a caring mode.

[oinoxn]

Meant to say I try not to share feelings and thoughts like that... .
I do know this is no way to live a healthy life. 

[pearlsw]

Hi oinoxn,

I hear ya! I am very careful with what I share, even innocuous things, because they often get weaponized and used against me at a later point.

Have you tried any of the techniques here for managing these situations where she is speaking to you in such difficult ways?  Are you able to leave? (I'm not really so it is not so easy... .cold weather outside, no contacts here to get help from.)

take care, pearl.

[oinoxn]

She doesn’t speak she scresms. It is difficult to try any trchnique when she is yelling and  screaming almost every day.  I record some of them in case I need a restraining order.  She is fine as along as she doesn’t perceive I am questioning something she says (ie.  she has a resting heartbeat of 7),  disagreeing, saying my opinion if it isn’t as hers, etc.  pretty much things are ok if I am a yes dear and u are wonderful type of husband.  But then I deny who I am, my own thoughts, opinions, etc.

If she thinks she has a problem she does not acknowledge it to me.  Never says what she does hurts the relationship nor ever apologizes for what she says, never.

I leave the house or go in my room.  I lock the door when I sleep if she has been raging.  Our landlord wants us to move by April 15.  I found her a place but I think she sabotouged it.  Say owner was trying to hit on her and she did not mike the fact he would have the keys too.  I am afraid come moving day I will have a place and she won’t snd I am unfortunately not the type after 20 years to leave her here that day if she has nowhere to go.

Now when I come home if I see her car is not here I feel relaxed and relieved.  If I see her car her I say oh crap to myself. 

[Tattered Heart]

Hi oinoxn,

I think you are heading in the right direction, but just a couple tweaks to setting limits. pearlsw posted the link to our workshop on boundaries. Reviewing that may help you get on the right page about leaving the house.

Boundaries are about changing our behavior and no our pwBPDs behavior. If we set limits in order to change their behavior then we are just punishing and controlling them. Leaving the house should be so you do not expose yourself to the yelling and screaming and not about getting your pwBPD to stop yelling. She can continue to scream and yell after you leave the house if she wants to. You just won't let yourself be there to be a witness to it. Does that make sense?

I'm not sure that someone who is escalated to the point of screaming and raging is going to be able to have the cognitive function to think about you having to spend $200.00 on a room. If she has calmed enough to begin having those thoughts, it means that she is no longer in an escalated state and would probably be ok for you to come home at that time.

I have a limit on my H's yelling. If he yells at me, I will let him know once that I don't wnat to be yelled at. If he continues after that I again tell him I don't like to be yelled at and then I exit the house. I tell him I will be back in 30 minutes after things calm down.

[formflier]

I am unfortunately not the type after 20 years to leave her here that day if she has nowhere to go.
 

Can you "flip" this view and understand this is potentially a method for her to control you.  "If I don't have a place to go... he won't abandon me... "  (potential thought process).

As far as screaming.
 
1.  Try to be proactive and get ahead of it.  (this likely won't work until #2 is consistent)
2.  Take your ears away from the screaming.  (as you alluded to, another room, hotel, long walk... there are many options).  Hopefully as you disengage you can say something like "I won't have conversations with screaming between us... "  This let's her know why you are leaving, yet doesn't accuse her.  Let her sort it out.

Once it dawns on her that you really aren't going to listen anymore, I suspect #1 will be better. 

How is your housing search coming? 

FF

[oinoxn]

It is very hard to use any technique when just about anything I say is responded with my BPDw screaming FU, who the F cares, you Fhead, ahole and all she is to me is a ... .sucker and a tax deduction.

I looked at a rental for me today.  Very nice.  Problem at my age I don’t want to keep moving because I am renting.  I don’t want have to move in a year.  A house I the neighborhood is going up for sale that is same model we live in.  I want to see the inside but realtor says not ready yet.  If I like the inside I would make an offer.  So I am stuck in the middle.

As far a BPDw goes, I found a place she likes but owner may not want a one year lease.  Should find out in day or two.

I have decided I can’t live like this being verbally battered day in day out.  She doesn’t even know she has a problem.  So if we stay together I would continue to be abused daily.  She threatened today to call my (pregnant) and tell her who knows what about me.  Oh I know, she has been talking with my ex wife of 25 years and news to me my ex said I owe her $45,000 from when I sold the house 8 years ago.

[formflier]

It is very hard to use any technique when just about anything I say is responded with my BPDw screaming FU, who the F cares, you Fhead, ahole and all she is to me is a ... .sucker and a tax deduction.

.  

Then you quickly move to the "take your ears somewhere else technique".  Seriously.  :)one consistently, it may help your wife calm.  It definitely will spare you the verbal abuse... .since you won't be able to hear it.

  So I am stuck in the middle.

Reasonable thing to think about.  I'm sure you will figure it out.  Note:  Given your situation, I would not make any offers on a house until you understand how to make sure it is your house... and your wife has no rights to it.

As far a BPDw goes, I found a place she likes but owner may not want a one year lease.  Should find out in day or two.

This is something you control... .the dynamic you are talking about at the top is NOT going to change as long as she abuses you AND you do all these things for her.  It just isn't.

So... .if your plan is to find her a place and then leave her there... and then let her solve her own things... well... .if that is your plan, why not let her start doing for herself now?

Perhaps another way.  What is your plan?

I have decided I can’t live like this being verbally battered day in day out.  She doesn’t even know she has a problem.  So if we stay together I would continue to be abused daily.  She threatened today to call my (pregnant) and tell her who knows what about me.  Oh I know, she has been talking with my ex wife of 25 years and news to me my ex said I owe her $45,000 from when I sold the house 8 years ago.

I'm very glad you have made this value decision.

I wish you would say it  like this...

"I will not be verbally abused."  I do remember when I thought if I could just "get it down to once a week", I would be ok.  

Can you see how that is twisted thinking?  That once a week is ok?

Hang in there!

FF

[walkinthepark247]

Oinoxn,

I get called an "@sshole" constantly as well. It used to bother me a lot more. Admittedly, I still don't like it. But, it doesn't have quite the same effect especially after learning so much about BPD and hearing it over and over and over. Also, my therapist has assured me that she is really lashing out at the people who abused her as a child. I'm just the convenient punching bag. They (her father in particular) are the true [insert expletive].

The last time it happened (like many times before) was in front of our kids as I was leaving for work. She yelled "$$hole" very loud in front of our kids over something completely benign. I hugged my kids and told them I loved them. When I got to work, I sent an email assuring her that she's made herself very clear that she thinks I am an "$##@$". I get it. I am not likely to ever change her opinion in that regard. You've made yourself heard. However, if she could kindly refrain from using that type of language in front of our children it would be much appreciated. Surprisingly, this tactic actually got an apology (that day at least).

The one that still does very much bother me is the "... .all I am to you is a ___". I get that one a lot. Now, when the conversation starts going in that direction, I will calmly stand up and let her know I am exiting the conversation. If she chooses to stew and go into silent treatment, that's on her. It's taken a lot of willpower to get to this point.

[Tattered Heart]

.  

Then you quickly move to the "take your ears somewhere else technique".  Seriously.  :)one consistently, it may help your wife calm.  It definitely will spare you the verbal abuse... .since you won't be able to hear it.

formflier is sharing some very insightful information. Over time, your W may begin to see that if she yells at you then you will leave the house, which removes you from being an audience to her.

So... .if your plan is to find her a place and then leave her there... and then let her solve her own things... well... .if that is your plan, why not let her start doing for herself now?

Although its kind of you to want to make sure your pwBPD has a place to live, it sounds like you already found her a place once and she sabotaged that. What will you do if she sabotages you again?

[formflier]

. What will you do if she sabotages you again?

And... .to build on tattered heart's thought here... .it's important to understand the likely reason she is sabotaging.  I assure you it is a dysfunctional reason...

Can you see the "dynamic" where she is mean to you, you solve something for her, she sabotages that, you re-engage to solve something else, she is mean to you, you solve (with extra care against sabotage), she finds another way to sabotage... .you re-engage...

I'm exhausted just writing that.

In this case... .you solving means you two are apart.  While she may say she wants that... and call you mean things... .I'm bet a enormous pile of money she wants nothing of the sort... .of any permanent nature.

Sure... chasing your off and then having you return hours later "gets" her something.  You living in different houses and having no contact "gets her" nothing.

Stay away from the details... .look at the big picture pattern.  :)oes this seem to ring true for you?

FF