Empathy vs Responsibility

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So, uBPDw and I have been having an interesting exchange this week, about which I have also exchanged some emails with our couples therapist.  Again throwing this stuff out out to the board for a sanity check... .

At the base of it, I made a very basic request that uBPDw please stop sending me pictures on Instagram of a particular dog breed that she's just dying for us to get.  She had escalated from sending me 2-3 a month in the past few months to sending me 5 in the space of 12 days.

I started out telling her I know how much she wants one, and agree they're adorable.  I used soft startup language, focusing only on how it makes me feel pressured about getting another dog (no way can we do that financially right now), and how I was feeling inundated with the increased frequency.  uBPDw came back the next day and wanted me to apologize for asking her to stop, because it hurt her feelings.  Also said she was upset that I made the request and didn't leave any room for discussion (for her to argue why she should be able to send them to me).

I had tried to set a boundary, and she wanted me to apologize (say I was wrong) because she didn't like it.  And then as I express reluctance to apologize for my boundary or opinion, she shifts to demanding apology for my delivery, because only then does she decide it was the delivery that hurt her feelings.  She also said that I wasn't showing her empathy, and this particular exchange led to me telling her last night that I understand I am responsible to her for certain things (ex. working on validation) but that I am not responsible for her feelings (her dislike of my request).

uBPDw emailed a request to our couples therapist to address this soon in session, characterising it as a "tug-o-war between (1) [me] wanting to express [my] feelings or opinion and holding fast versus (2) [uBPDw's] requests for empathy."  She included this link for reference: www.gottman.com/blog/stop-trying-fix-partners-feelings/

I followed up privately with our couples therapist to tell her I am struggling with the following things:

1) uBPDw expects and demands a level of empathy from me that I am not capable of offering right now (due to emotional burnout)
2) uBPDw interprets my disagreeing with her or attempting to establish a boundary as me showing a lack of empathy (among other things such as criticism, contempt, judgement of her, etc)
3) uBPDw wants me to apologize for her feelings being hurt because I "said no" in some way.  She's used to being able to change the outcome, either in the heat of an argument or after wearing me down over a period of time through repetition and other tactics.

The couples therapist honed in on the first item, asking if I have communicated to uBPDw about my inability to offer her the empathy she wants.  I  stressed that I have told her about my emotional burnout on multiple occasions at home over the past couple of months (either while discussing something external to our relationship that has upset her, or during a brewing argument). I also reminded her I have spoken of it in at least one of our joint sessions with her.

I told her I recognize the flaw here is that I haven’t managed to address this outside of a time where uBPDw is already in a state of need.  That feels really hard to do, because she seems to be that state so very often—especially over the past few months.  I have been her primary (often only) source for emotional support for so many years, for such a broad spectrum of indignation, personal offense, frustration, self-doubt, anxiety, outrage, etc., and I have also borne the brunt of much of that being directed at me through numerous arguments.  All of this in addition to caring for her through numerous physical ailments, and I finally find myself where I am today.

I shared with the couples therapist that the sense I get is that uBPDw:

1) has heard me express my emotional burnout, but does’t want to accept it because of the implication that she has contributed to the situation
2) has heard me, but still expects me to set aside my needs to take care of hers
3) has heard me, but not bothered to understand what I’m saying even after multiple attempts to speak up about my needs
4) cannot hear me due to her own needs overwhelming her

   

I try to give her the benefit of the doubt and think it’s mostly the fourth option, though at different times elements of the others shine through.  I will work on being more explicit with her as far as emotional burnout equaling diminished capacity for empathy.  I have tried during emotional discussions to offer validation (a skill I am still working on) and tell her that I understand she is going through something difficult, but then let her know (as recommended by my own therapist) that I find it hard to be there for her due to being maxed out myself.  She doesn’t like it very much, but ultimately I need her to find others beyond me to help her carry the load.  She has a friend at work that she has gotten pretty close to, so that’s a good start, but I still feel so much pressure from her to take on more than I can.

mw

[mama-wolf]

So, uBPDw and I have been having an interesting exchange this week, about which I have also exchanged some emails with our couples therapist.  Again throwing this stuff out out to the board for a sanity check... .

At the base of it, I made a very basic request that uBPDw please stop sending me pictures on Instagram of a particular dog breed that she's just dying for us to get.  She had escalated from sending me 2-3 a month in the past few months to sending me 5 in the space of 12 days.

I started out telling her I know how much she wants one, and agree they're adorable.  I used soft startup language, focusing only on how it makes me feel pressured about getting another dog (no way can we do that financially right now), and how I was feeling inundated with the increased frequency.  uBPDw came back the next day and wanted me to apologize for asking her to stop, because it hurt her feelings.  Also said she was upset that I made the request and didn't leave any room for discussion (for her to argue why she should be able to send them to me).

I had tried to set a boundary, and she wanted me to apologize (say I was wrong) because she didn't like it.  And then as I express reluctance to apologize for my boundary or opinion, she shifts to demanding apology for my delivery, because only then does she decide it was the delivery that hurt her feelings.  She also said that I wasn't showing her empathy, and this particular exchange led to me telling her last night that I understand I am responsible to her for certain things (ex. working on validation) but that I am not responsible for her feelings (her dislike of my request).

uBPDw emailed a request to our couples therapist to address this soon in session, characterising it as a "tug-o-war between (1) [me] wanting to express [my] feelings or opinion and holding fast versus (2) [uBPDw's] requests for empathy."  She included this link for reference: www.gottman.com/blog/stop-trying-fix-partners-feelings/

I followed up privately with our couples therapist to tell her I am struggling with the following things:

1) uBPDw expects and demands a level of empathy from me that I am not capable of offering right now (due to emotional burnout)
2) uBPDw interprets my disagreeing with her or attempting to establish a boundary as me showing a lack of empathy (among other things such as criticism, contempt, judgement of her, etc)
3) uBPDw wants me to apologize for her feelings being hurt because I "said no" in some way.  She's used to being able to change the outcome, either in the heat of an argument or after wearing me down over a period of time through repetition and other tactics.

The couples therapist honed in on the first item, asking if I have communicated to uBPDw about my inability to offer her the empathy she wants.  I  stressed that I have told her about my emotional burnout on multiple occasions at home over the past couple of months (either while discussing something external to our relationship that has upset her, or during a brewing argument). I also reminded her I have spoken of it in at least one of our joint sessions with her.

I told her I recognize the flaw here is that I haven’t managed to address this outside of a time where uBPDw is already in a state of need.  That feels really hard to do, because she seems to be that state so very often—especially over the past few months.  I have been her primary (often only) source for emotional support for so many years, for such a broad spectrum of indignation, personal offense, frustration, self-doubt, anxiety, outrage, etc., and I have also borne the brunt of much of that being directed at me through numerous arguments.  All of this in addition to caring for her through numerous physical ailments, and I finally find myself where I am today.

I shared with the couples therapist that the sense I get is that uBPDw:

1) has heard me express my emotional burnout, but does’t want to accept it because of the implication that she has contributed to the situation
2) has heard me, but still expects me to set aside my needs to take care of hers
3) has heard me, but not bothered to understand what I’m saying even after multiple attempts to speak up about my needs
4) cannot hear me due to her own needs overwhelming her

   

I try to give her the benefit of the doubt and think it’s mostly the fourth option, though at different times elements of the others shine through.  I will work on being more explicit with her as far as emotional burnout equaling diminished capacity for empathy.  I have tried during emotional discussions to offer validation (a skill I am still working on) and tell her that I understand she is going through something difficult, but then let her know (as recommended by my own therapist) that I find it hard to be there for her due to being maxed out myself.  She doesn’t like it very much, but ultimately I need her to find others beyond me to help her carry the load.  She has a friend at work that she has gotten pretty close to, so that’s a good start, but I still feel so much pressure from her to take on more than I can.

mw

[formflier]

By debating this stuff... .by trying to solve the unsolvable... .and doing it with someone that moves the goalposts... .YOU are contributing to the dysfunction in the r/s.

OK... that was frank and to the point... .honestly... .I think you need less empathy, less tools, less trying... .and focus on a succinct clear message... .when it's not about her feelings (even when she wants it to be).

"A dog doesn't work for me right now."  (no need to discuss further).

you can't control her sending you things.  delete or block if it bugs you.  


Now... .when she is emotional over her emotions... perhaps then use tools.  When she is emotional over being told no.  Let her solve it... .you are not involved at all

I would stay away from saying "no"... .I would focus on "That doesn't work for me (you own it... let her draw her conclusions).

"That doesn't work for me right now... .let's plan to discuss this further on our couples retreat in April (you are saying yes to talk more... .but later)... .

I'm going to say this another way... .you are overfunctioning to compensate for her lack of function.  I would like you to "function"... .let her under function... .and let her experience the results of her under function.

You use boundaries to protect yourself from those results.  Said another way, boundaries make sure she can't "hand her pain" to you.  

Thoughts?

FF

[formflier]

 
I think you should "agree" that the link is relevant. 

You will no longer apologize for "hurting" your partner... you will trust that your partner can deal with her own "hurts" without you trying to "fix" them with an apology that you don't agree with.

I would further clarify that should you ever understand that you have "harmed" your partner, it is your intent to apologize and do your utmost best to "reconcile" the relationship from the "harm" you perceive that you have caused.

Reference this.

https://youtu.be/F3x-oHxGNxg


I see you "saying yes" way too much to your partners emotions and trying to "fix" or "manage them"... .it's ok to say no.


FF

[mama-wolf]

By debating this stuff... .by trying to solve the unsolvable... .and doing it with someone that moves the goalposts... .YOU are contributing to the dysfunction in the r/s.

Now... .when she is emotional over her emotions... perhaps then use tools.  When she is emotional over being told no.  Let her solve it... .you are not involved at all

Very apt description on the moving goalposts... .this is exactly why I'm working so hard on boundaries right now. 

I should clarify that the only discussion with uBPDw about any of this was the initial request that she stop sending the pictures, and the followup discussion she initiated where she asked me to apologize.  There was no debate in the first one, and I also cut off the follow-up discussion pretty quickly when she kept pressing for an "acceptable" apology.  All other communications described in my post were over email with the couples therapist only, up to and including the last paragraph.  I was working very hard this week not to be drawn into a debate with uBPDw about my request, while also keeping our couples therapist in the loop about what I felt was brewing for today's session.

I'm going to say this another way... .you are overfunctioning to compensate for her lack of function.  I would like you to "function"... .let her under function... .and let her experience the results of her under function.

You use boundaries to protect yourself from those results.  Said another way, boundaries make sure she can't "hand her pain" to you.  

The overfunctioning statement is an interesting one that I will explore more, particularly with my own T.  I do feel a strong need to work hard on my own reactions and approach, but will try to be more cognizant of how in the process I might be compensating for and removing consequences of under functioning from her.

We had our couples session this morning, and as expected this whole exchange came up.  I was able to again express the limits to my empathy, and stress that I cannot carry her pain over my feelings or opinions.  I tried to be very clear that I do not wish to hurt her, but I won't take responsibility for her not liking and struggling to accept the outcome.

I see you "saying yes" way too much to your partners emotions and trying to "fix" or "manage them"... .it's ok to say no.

Thanks for the video... .it was a good quick watch.  I have read Boundaries at the recommendation of our couples therapist from when we first started seeing her, and it forms the basis of so much of my efforts in creating my own.  The whole "saying yes" issue is something I am also working on... .like by calling a time out on the discussion/argument before those emotions have a chance to escalate, removing myself from the encounter before it has a chance to drive up my own anxiety.

Over the weekend, I pulled away from a kiss that she tried to deepen, and let me tell you that didn't go over well either.  Once again, I removed myself from the discussion and simply explained I just not in the place emotionally to reciprocate.  I don't know if she was testing the waters, seeking reassurance, or trying to gloss over our recent arguments, but I just couldn't go there.  This happened the day before my request about the pictures, so she bundled both up neatly and lobbed them at me with all of her hurt feelings... .and I didn't accept the burden.

I do feel like there should be room for more empathy than I'm able to offer right now.  I don't deny that, and hope to get there someday... .I just feel like she keeps demanding water from a dry well and won't give it a chance to fill back up.  I'm not going to accept the guilt she wants me to carry for being where I am emotionally.  No matter what she says with words, I think the "empathy" she wants from me is so closely tied to a desire that I help carry her emotional pain that she can't separate the two.  That's how it has been for so long in our relationship at least... .

mw

[pearlsw]

Hi mama-wolf,

How are you feeling? Are the suggestions of formflier helpful for you?

I want to step in to ask about your emotional burnout? That must be such a hard spot to be in... .to have this issue coming at you over and over and not feeling like you have much left to give in this or any area perhaps.  

What will it take for you to recover from this burnout would you say? What does that recovery look like when you try to imagine it?

warmly, pearl.

[mama-wolf]

Hi pearl,

Yes, FF typically has some good perspectives to consider, and I'm thankful for his contributions

As far as my emotional burnout, I really don't know what it will take to recover.  I trust my therapist to guide me through it and think she has started me on the path by helping me with tools to stop the arguments and remove myself from the situation.

Space for one thing, hence the boundary work.  Time for sure, but I have no idea how long.  A lot of self care, which I have been prioritizing.  I have been able to carve out time for regular exercise over the past few weeks, though I faltered on that a bit this week.  I am also trying to do things I know I enjoy, but that's a little harder because I find the prospect of doing these things is less appealing than they once were (depression red flag).  I'm trying to parse out whether it's because I'm not looking forward to the argument it might create with uBPDw to have even more time to myself in addition to the time I take for exercise... .or whether I really don't feel that enjoyment.

mw

[mama-wolf]

What does that recovery look like when you try to imagine it?

Thinking through this some more, I would have to add that to eventually give myself the best chances of recovery I will need to be out of an environment where I have to be constantly on guard to protect my own emotional well-being.  This would mean separation from uBPDw, and will involve a lot of turmoil to get me from here to there.  But that's why I'm on this board now... .I'm not sure there is any other path for me to truly heal myself and be in a position to be the kind of parent to our kids that I want to be.

I do think uBPDw has the capacity to work on her issues, repair her bond with D9, and be a good parent to both kids.  I want to keep her focused on that, though I know there will be a severe amount of hurt and blame thrown my way once I am able to finally step away from our marriage.  I just don't want it to spill over onto the kids.

mw

[Lucky Jim]

Thinking through this some more, I would have to add that to eventually give myself the best chances of recovery I will need to be out of an environment where I have to be constantly on guard to protect my own emotional well-being. 

Hey mama-wolf, That seems realistic to me.  In the meantime, I wonder whether there are any steps you can take to recharge your batteries, perhaps by spending time away from your uBPDw?  It doesn't have to be a big thing.  Maybe you can go to the Library for a few hours, or take a long walk by yourself, or visit a friend or family member for a night or two?  Your pwBPD will presumably try to block you, which is why I suggest you go into this mode with a ":)amn the Torpedoes" approach.  E.g., "I'm going to the gym on my own, no matter what!"

LuckyJim

[crunchtime]

Guilt tripping about "empathy" is one of the biggest problems in my own BPD relationship.

She constantly accuses me of having no empathy, so on and so on. By now it isn't surprising to me that when I tell her "No" about almost anything -- usually when I choose to stay home instead of go over her place and sleep over -- she will almost immediately resort to threatening suicide.

Extreme, yes. But sound familiar?

She is completely unable to separate her feelings of rejection and abandonment from me as an individual. To top it all off, she accuses me of "projecting" and "deflecting" when I say I'm feeling burned out and overwhelmed, or express any emotion at all... .

Sound familiar?

... .then proceeds to tell me I have no empathy and never "allow her to express her feelings." I feel like I'm the one taking crazy pills. I'm amazed at how consistently she blames me for behavior she's exhibiting and then shames/guilt trips me for it, and if that fails to work, she will resort to suicide threats -- every single time.

You're not crazy... .it's hard to remember that. I feel like I'm losing my mind daily just because of the literally dozens to HUNDREDS of texts I receive on a daily basis, especially when she's unhappy. Sometimes I will get as many as 20 messages within the span of 5 minutes if she's freaking out and of course it all comes back to me being a horrible person, having no empathy, etc.

As I type this out, it seems ridiculous. When you're in the thick of it, you don't see how ridiculous it is. Remember that.

[formflier]

Mama-Wolf,

I've got a couple more suggestions to "bring you back from burnout".
 
It's going to be a process, but it is doable.

I think you can give yourself more emotional space in the relationship.  So... when you are approached about an apology (I keep hearing this, so I'm guessing it is a favorite "tactic" of your wife)... .I think you need to change your habit to a brief listen (30 seconds... perhaps a minute), so that you can verify there is no "real emergency" (remember... .you do have to remain the real adult)

Then I want you to give her two options that work for you... .for much later, perhaps the next day... .to discuss it in detail.  

Two big goals here

1.  Give her lots of time to manage her stuff on her own.
2.  Give you time to show up for the discussion on "top of your game".

While you won't be able to completely relax and "let your guard down" it will be close.  Because you will control when you are "emotionally available" to her to discuss apologies.

Let's go back to "overfunctioning".  

Examine your emails to the therapist.  Would you be better off to have not done any of them... .let your wife send 10... .or 100.  What did you contribute that was critical to your T being able to do her job?

I'm sure you will find a few things, but I'm going to make a guess.  I'm going to suggest that if you had much less involvement in the emailing "to prepare" the therapist... .you would be in a better place.

Every little big of emotional energy you can find... helps.

FF

[mama-wolf]

LJ, yes thank you... .I am constantly on the lookout for opportunities to get a little time to myself. I tend to manage ok with shorter periods of time, especially since that doesn't end up being too much of a burden for her as far as caring for the kids.  It's  not quite enough though... .

Getting away for a day or two is logistically (and financially) pretty difficult, but I did technically manage to do this a couple weeks ago for my sister's bachelorette party.  Made it out of town for a couple days, though I wasnt exactly on my own and D9 was FaceTiming a lot due to being upset about being left at home with uBPDw. 

uBPDw has actually asked to have a day or so break herself next weekend.  She says it is her therapists suggestion, and from our many years together I know it's because she bristles at the fact that I got that "break" a couple weeks ago and she hasn't gotten one.  So that's fine... .I get the break without having to ask for it or actually go anywhere.  I don't mind that I'll be home with the kids... .they're not the source of my stress.

Crunchtime, I can't thank you enough for your note. The behavior you describe is much more severe than what my uBPDw does, but the patterns are so very similar. Sometimes I think the less severe behavior is that much more dangerous... .it has certainly kept me from seeing the true nature of the situation for many years!  I really appreciate you taking the time to share that and help remind me that I'm really not crazy.

And FF, as always thank you for the suggestions.  I plan to talk through this subject more with my T when I see her this coming week.