Not really married, not really separated, but somewhere in between

[DaddyBear77]

DB,

It's been a while.  How are you doing?

WW

That's a REALLY good question, Wentworth! I don't know! How's that for an answer?

Actually, I'm doing pretty well, all things considered. It's been a month now since I moved into my own little space in our finished basement. Every night I go to sleep without the stress of walking on eggshells, and wake up without the jarring experience of criticism and arguments.

Now, that's part of it. The other part of it is this - during the day, every time my wife and I interact, it's still absolutely the same eggshells dance. There's still the same financial issues - for example, she's withdrawing money that we can't really afford for her to withdraw, and constructive discussions aren't possible. I'm still being criticized and talked down to in front of our daughter. So it's not like the problems went away. It's just that, somehow, for some reason, the boundaries around sleep are suddenly being respected.

The other thing I've observed is that my wife doesn't really want to spend much quality time with our daughter. She'll prepare our daughter's breakfast, and then for the entire meal, she'll sit with her iPhone while my daughter either sits and eats quietly (enforced by my wife), or if I'm there, my daughter and I will talk and occasionally my wife will join in. After breakfast, my wife either puts our daughter in front of the television for multiple hours while she exercises, takes a shower, works on her school work, etc. Or, if I'm home (weekend, working from home), my daughter will immediately come to me and I'm more than happy to spend every minute I can with her. These past 2 or 3 weekends, I've spent the entire day with her, playing, going through math and reading lessons - and... WOW has it made a HUGE difference! Between the virtual end to long drawn out fights, and the extra dedicated time I'm spending with my daughter, she's opened way up, taken huge leaps in math and reading skills, lots of great stuff. I couldn't be happier.

So all this begs the question, what's next for my marriage? Is this just a "pre-separation" before an eventual legal separation and divorce? IS there some path forward where we can do the serious work that needs to be done?

In regards to the latter (the possibility of reconciliation), here's where I stand: I love her, I'm committed to her, and I would absolutely jump at the chance for true healing and repair of our relationship. I believe we've got a lot of great things between us, we've still got some chemistry, we're still compatible in a lot of ways. We have our daughter to raise and I still believe a healthy home with two parents would be the best possible scenario for everyone. Heck, we even had some really solid plans on having a second child, and that would be great, too, IF there was a healthy marriage and a healthy home for the child to be born into.

BUT

I can't do any of that stuff alone. I can't force her to be respectful. I can't force her to see me as the person I am instead of the person she sees. I can't force her to agree to marriage counseling, which I truly believe we need, but she is steadfastly opposed to it. I can't force her to stay and live without the things she says she can't live without, and we most certainly need to cut things back at least temporarily. I can't force her to accept my parents and my brothers as part of my life and our daughter's life, which she has said she is absolutely unwilling to do. On that last point, I'm a little more willing to accommodate things like not leaving our daughter in their care, for example, but I'm not willing to exclude them and pretend they don't exist like I have been!

Anyway, I guess my point is that it seems really unlikely that enough of the "non negotiable" things will change, because so much of it depends on loving partnership and working together to find real solutions without standing so firm in one position as to exclude all reasonable compromises. This is where she has stood, forcing me to compromise nearly EVERYthing that was important to me. Now, I have the chance to stand firm in, what I think is, a fair middle ground position. Will she bend? Probably not. Can I live with that? I don't think so, not any more.

So, that's the long answer to how I'm doing. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts and feedback. And thanks again for asking, WW

[Notgoneyet]

[quote auth

BUT

I can't do any of that stuff alone. I can't force her to be respectful. I can't force her to see me as the person I am instead of the person she sees. I can't force her to agree to marriage counseling, which I truly believe we need, but she is steadfastly opposed to it.
[/quote]

  DB,
  I was in the same boat as you are 1 yr ago. She refused to go to couples MC. So I did as the C suggested started going alone, Learned some things about me that I had not concidered in the past.
  You might think what good is MC without both parties?  Well just when I was beginning to enjoy my sessions alone (4-5 times) and guess what my BPDw of 35yrs decided she better join in to make sure I was getting her side of the story straight. Image that she didn't trust me ,LOL!
  We've been going weekly ever since minus a few BAD days.(which I still enjoy alone). Today the T dug into some DEEP family of origan(abuse) issues with my w that have never been brought to surface and both of us left session with what felt like a huge load off of our minds.
   It's not just MC any more she's (BPDw) getting what she needs to help begin recovery from Addictions as well as BPD.
   Although I'm still cautious I can see a little glimmer of light at the end of this long tunnel.

   There is hope and I wish that for you too!

[Radcliff]

DB,

It was good to read your post.  Your tone feels to me like it has completely changed compared to a few weeks ago.  It may be my imagination, but it actually seems like you're better rested just from reading your post!

I cannot tell you how heartwarming it was to hear about the quality time with your daughter, and how she is progressing.  The time you are investing now will pay huge dividends as she grows.

I'm glad to hear that you are getting the rest and space to process the situation and do some thinking about what you want and where you are headed.  The fantastic thing is that now that you have the space, it is not a crisis -- you have some time to develop your perspective.  The exact same thing happened to me once I got some safe space.  I predict that you will continue to do great work processing and understanding things over the next couple of months.

I have one suggestion.  Journal your activities with your daughter and your wife's behavior for one week.  That journal may never see the light of day, but someday you may need to explain to someone how involved you have been in your daughter's wife, and even if you don't show the journal to someone, rereading it will build your confidence and you can speak to it in a compelling, warm, and confident way.  Then, every couple of months, journal for a week.

What does your wife think about the new arrangement?

[Red5]

Actually, I'm doing pretty well, all things considered. It's been a month now since I moved into my own little space in our finished basement. Every night I go to sleep without the stress of walking on eggshells, and wake up without the jarring experience of criticism and arguments.

Hello DB77,

Yes, the appropriate amount of sleep, a good solid, and peaceful routine / constitution does work wonders in ones life.

I would add that your alone time is also very good for you, as well the priceless, stress free time you are able to spend with your daughter, as we all know, our children grow up so fast, so spend all the time you can with her, as there are no "do-overs' in that regard, and she will remember all the good times you have spent together, a win win !

Yes, do what you can to preserve your health routine of sleep, and daily activates, free of the stress of your relationship, as your strength to cope with the issues will grow stronger in doing so.

I would add exercise, maybe bike ridding with your daughter, going for walks someplace nice, ie' the beach or a park... .all good stuff.

And a good diet too, do you cook?

Best regards DB77, hang in there !

Red5

[Cat Familiar]

I can't do any of that stuff alone. I can't force her to be respectful. I can't force her to see me as the person I am instead of the person she sees. I can't force her to agree to marriage counseling, which I truly believe we need, but she is steadfastly opposed to it. I can't force her to stay and live without the things she says she can't live without, and we most certainly need to cut things back at least temporarily. I can't force her to accept my parents and my brothers as part of my life and our daughter's life, which she has said she is absolutely unwilling to do. On that last point, I'm a little more willing to accommodate things like not leaving our daughter in their care, for example, but I'm not willing to exclude them and pretend they don't exist like I have been!

Anyway, I guess my point is that it seems really unlikely that enough of the "non negotiable" things will change, because so much of it depends on loving partnership and working together to find real solutions without standing so firm in one position as to exclude all reasonable compromises. This is where she has stood, forcing me to compromise nearly EVERYthing that was important to me. Now, I have the chance to stand firm in, what I think is, a fair middle ground position. Will she bend? Probably not. Can I live with that? I don't think so, not any more.

Something I'm mind-reading in your words is that you might be seeking agreement with your wife or expecting some level of cooperation.

We nons often bend over backwards trying to be amenable. What you now think is a "fair middle ground position" might actually be heavily weighted in your wife's favor.

I've gone through a marked change (initially due to a concussion last year) and now I no longer ask permission, seek compromise, try to get cooperation, or look for a "fair" resolution and my relationship is waaaaay better.

I think it's because pwBPD have a spidey-sense about looking for weakness and often exploiting it. I just say what I'm doing, knowing in my heart of hearts that I'm a fair-minded person and offer no excuses, explanations, etc.

He knows that I stand firm in who I am and what I believe and it's a wasted effort to try and dislodge me from my position. It's so counterintuitive from how I used to be. I was such an appeaser and negotiator and I always tried to find consensus. With a pwBPD, that frequently meant I had to give up myself totally and go 100% with their idea.

[juju2]

you are getting great feedback!

I am going to 2nd the motion that one person can change the dynamic...

Saw this in my co worker, 3 yrs ago, her husb didnt want the family anymore, this went on for 2 yrs.  She did work on herself... .(don't know if BPD was in this mix or not)
They got back together after two years... .

I am going thru something similar, separated for a year, it looks like I am the only one pulling for our r/s, we have 10 yrs.  It is getting bit by bit, sometimes tiny bit, better... .the things that save me:
1.  SELF CARE--A lot of it
2.  WISE CARING FRIENDS THAT ARE SAFE.
3.  CHECKING IN ON MY ATTITUDE, THAT DETERMINES EVERYTHING ELSE.  DEALING W MYSELF, HOURLY IF NEEDED, AND FOR SURE DAILY. 

It takes work, what can I say.  Being on this board helps immensely.

Some days are better than others.

And focus.  Don't let my focus get skewed because of anyone or anyone's illness!

oh, yeah, and reach out to others who are going thru stuff... .

sincerely, j
I don't have to figure anything out NOW.

[Grey Kitty]

We have our daughter to raise and I still believe a healthy home with two parents would be the best possible scenario for everyone.

Yeah, that is ideal. But what you actually have had for quite a while hasn't been a healthy home with two parents.

It has been a home with two parents in an emotionally toxic conflict. That certainly has spilled over enough that your daughter was aware of it.

What you describe now is a home with two parents mostly in a cold/silent war, not working together as parents.

Imagine what you can do to improve it. (Assuming little cooperation on your wife's part)

Seriously... .try to work out what the best you can expect this to become without your wife helping. Try to describe it in as much detail as you can, and figure out what you have to do to get there, and how realistic it is.

You can compare that to scenarios where you move out and have (presumably) some sort of split custody.

Try to stop yourself from comparing these options with the one where your wife "gets better" and "compromises", etc. Chasing after that false hope (a healthy home with two parents, one be you, and the other being your wife!) will just keep you stuck, unable to act upon and make the hard choices in front of you.

[Radcliff]

Try to stop yourself from comparing these options with the one where your wife "gets better" and "compromises", etc. Chasing after that false hope (a healthy home with two parents, one be you, and the other being your wife!) will just keep you stuck, unable to act upon and make the hard choices in front of you.

Well said, Grey Kitty.

WW

[DaddyBear77]

I would add exercise, maybe bike ridding with your daughter, going for walks someplace nice, ie' the beach or a park ... .all good stuff.

And a good diet too, do you cook?

Great suggestions, Red5 - and you know what? Another thing I've noticed is that I'm finally considering my OWN health, and I am actually inclined to implement exercise and an improved diet! So yeah, things are looking up for sure.

It takes work, what can I say.  Being on this board helps immensely.

I couldn't agree more, juju6860 - thank you for jumping in, your 3 saving items are great!

Something I'm mind-reading in your words is that you might be seeking agreement with your wife or expecting some level of cooperation.

Cat Familiar, I wouldn't say I'm expecting some level of cooperation. I'm dreaming of a scenario where cooperation exists, but I have no realistic expectation that will ever happen.

Try to stop yourself from comparing these options with the one where your wife "gets better" and "compromises", etc. Chasing after that false hope (a healthy home with two parents, one be you, and the other being your wife!) will just keep you stuck, unable to act upon and make the hard choices in front of you.

Aaand HERE we have it, Grey Kitty - very well said, indeed. My "dream" scenario keeps me stuck. Isn't that really what this whole thing has boiled down to for a long time? A combination of pretending things weren't as bad as they were, and unrealistic hope that things would change "if I just... ."?

try to work out what the best you can expect this to become without your wife helping. Try to describe it in as much detail as you can, and figure out what you have to do to get there, and how realistic it is.

You can compare that to scenarios where you move out and have (presumably) some sort of split custody.

This will take some work, but I truly believe it's a worthwhile exercise. Particularly, the part where I imagine the "best case" scenario for staying, and all the work I'd need to do, and the realistic possibility of my work having the desired effect.

   There is hope and I wish that for you too!

Notgoneyet - thank you so much - yes, she is refusing MC, but I am certainly taking the opportunity to see my own T. It has been difficult to get back in to see my preferred T but I've been able to make contact and it's just a matter of time.

[Radcliff]

Aaand HERE we have it, Grey Kitty - very well said, indeed. My "dream" scenario keeps me stuck. Isn't that really what this whole thing has boiled down to for a long time? A combination of pretending things weren't as bad as they were, and unrealistic hope that things would change "if I just... ."?

DB, you are not alone.  This describes what I did exactly!

WW

[ortac77]

DB

I can only echo that My 'dream' scenario was keeping me stuck! It is only after a long time and the chance to think things through and work with therapy that I am now able to 'let the rs go'.

It does not mean letting go of my dreams for me, they rest on doing what is right for me not what is right for my pwBPD. I have had to reach acceptance that whatever I did I could not change things for another person, let my EGO go!

I feel a calm that I have not felt for a long time because I can only focus on my best interests, its a big weight off my mind and a whole new ball game - self care.