Practice: How do I respond to this text in a constructive way?

[JoeBPD81]

1st thing I hear after waking up is the phone with a text from my gf:

(This is going to be too graphic for some people. Reader discretion is advised.)

Good morning. Two days in a row you wake me up with your toilet trips. And what really bothers me is that the kids don't even have doors to their bedrooms and you're just not one bit careful. You blow your nose like you're alone. You handle the toilet paper like you're having a fight with it. You have the door wide open with the light spilling into everyone else's abodes with us sleeping. Please be more careful. I didn't tell you yesterday to have to experience it again twice night/morning. This kind of thing makes me believe that if I had said something in a rude crude manner I wouldn't have had to say it again today. Also ever since I told you how your hairs on the toilet affect me there's been an increase of those for me to find, which I take as you testing me or something. And I am trying to not react and OK, but it's a pity to waste so much energy on that, tbh. Anyway.

The context is that she doesn't believe we can have a future, but she is living with me with her 2 kids, because otherwise they would be homeless. I pay all the rent and house expenses, and not because I'm loaded, I'm burning through my savings to do so.

Being in a conflict relationship, I read that as agressive and disrespectful, but I might be wrong, biased by our history. How did you read it before the context? I know the language is polite and the request to be careful to not wake them up (10 minutes before their wake up time), reasonable. But I see things that are out of line, Am I disregulating, or are those things there?

As you can imagine, I already walk in eggshells, I am careful. I live in a prison full of norms that are not mine, and don't make much sense to me. And now I can't use the bathroom when I need to?

I'm a hairy guy. I even used a hair cutting machine to cut the hair from my body, from the knees up, so she wouldn't find so much hair around. It's f-ing humiliating. And for what? So she can think what? that I will my hair to fall more in order to bother her?

I used to keep a bucket of water ready at night so I didn't flash, and I'd made less noise. I don't remember what she said, but she threatened me "If I find that bucked full with water again... .Something". I took the bucket to the trash, and I told her "the bucket is not worth an argument".

I used a plastic spoon, so I don't bother her with the sound of the metal in my coffee. She told me one day how disgusting I was because I had a spoon fetish and I use weird spoons.

I try to not go nº2 at home, and I hold it until I get to my office, so I don't have to hear any comments about it.

I don't close the door completely (but I don't leave it open either) so I don't make noise closing and opening it. The point is I do try to be as careful as I can, I try so much I'm not even a bit comfortable in my own home. And I feel like I'm an unwanted tenant at HER home.

What I want to say (but I won't) is: "Tell you what, to compensate what a pain in the ass I am, this month I'll pay all the rent, how about that?" "If you lived in someone else's house whould you also tell them how to go to their own bathroom?" "If you can't respect me as a human being with the same rights as you or the kids, if you don't love me enough to be kind and cut me some slack, can you look at the whole picture and see that your energy is not wasted, that you have a house for free? That I put up with the kids waking ME up whenever they are bored, that I spend my days either staying out of your way, or helping with homework"... .

For the time being I only answered "Good morning. Message received".

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[sladezy]

This reminds me of similar situations with my ex, getting kicked out of our bed for snoring. I would even wait until she was asleep every night before I went to sleep so it didn't disturb her, no matter how early I had to start work in the morning. This sounds like a terrible situation for you to be in and now I'm reflecting on my own behaviour at the time I think to myself, what the hell was I thinking. Maybe setting some boundaries or conditions of her continuing to live with you rent free could be discussed. It is your house and it sounds like you are being taken advantage of.

I don't really know how to respond to the message but I think you probably answered the best way possible for the time being. Maybe take some time to sort out your limits and address it later. My doctor told me once nothing will change unless it is resolved and if it can't be resolved all we can do is manage it.

It's good to hear some of your story since you've been really helpful to me. I hope some of what I've written can help you in some way.

[BasementDweller]

Oh, I'd BIFF the hell out of this one!

https://www.biffresponse.com/blog/how-to-reply-to-angry-texts-emails-4-biff-response-examples/

"Good morning back! Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me on the noise level in the house. I appreciate that we both care about everyone in the family being happy and well rested. Understandably, some noise results from a family member going to the toilet, which is why I am careful about these things already. I look forward to us working together to ensure that everyone's needs for both sleep and hygiene are properly met. Have a great rest of the day!"

And leave it there. Any more sarcasm that comes back - ignore it. You have addressed the issue. Full stop.  

There is a nearly 100% chance she will be like "What the heck?" Your calm and formal reaction might even come across as completely shocking and confusing - as it is NOT what she's expecting. Good. Derail the insanity with an absolute refusal to engage in it.

AndHell, eat with a metal spoon and ___ at home. Set a boundary that you will take into consideration her concerns about noise and hygiene, but you will ALSO meet you own needs for food and a toilet, and this is basic biology 101, and it needs to be respected. Period.

[JoeBPD81]

Thanks a lot for the responses. They are really helpful.

BasementDweller, what'sHell?

sladezy, thanks a lot for pitching in, of course it helps. We all sometimes can only listen and understand, but that matters a lot. Having your answer so soon turned my anxiety down a lot.

I'm interested in my level of misreading this text. Am I taking it out of proportion? Or is it normal that I'm mad as a monkey?.

50% I'm mad at myself for being a pushover. A woman hit me with her umbrella, a few minutes ago, and I said "I'm sorry". WHHAATTT? I'm sorry for hitting your umbrella with my face? . But I'm like that. And being like that, being unable to disrespect others, I find it more alarming when others disrespect me (because I judge things said as "I wouldn't say that to anyone, specially someone I care about".

[BasementDweller]

And if that sounds harsh - it's because I know where you are coming from and I had to deal with my BPDbf's frequent controlling criticisms about how I did everything wrong from peeling a hard boiled egg, to placing the toothpaste on the wrong side of the sink, to also closing the door too loud. Just hearing your story makes me bristle with indignant rage. On your behalf.

Finally one day, I had to say "Your concerns are duly noted, and do not need to be brought up ever again. I will take your concerns into consideration, but at the same time will continue to sometimes do things as I damn well see fit. Deal with it."

An extinction burst of epic proportion followed, followed by... .him dealing with it. Sometimes you actually do, (fragile pwBPD or not) have to say "CUT THE ___" let them have a tantrum, tune it out, and move along. Tough love.  

I just saw your latest post.

I would say her message was aggressive and hostile and also accusatory and belittling. I think it's highly unlikely you leave hairs on the toilet to test her. In any context, I would see her message as highly inappropriate. You have every right to be furious. It's not that she's essentially saying in a horrifically rude way "I'd like it a little quieter and cleaner around here." It's the way in hich she is drowning her request in sarcasm, accusations and insults. A non disordered person would state that the noise and mess can sometimes be bothersome, and offer to work together to find a solution. A pwBPD takes these inconveneiences as personal insults that were intended to upset him or her. I finally had to make it clear to my partner that anything he wanted to say has to be said respectfully, devoid of any sarcasm, taunts, or aggressions, or it will not be heard or considered. He blew up for a bit, but has now dramatically improved. Once he learned his needs will NOT be tended to if he expressed them rudely, he adjusted - because after all, the end goal isn't really a fight that they want - it's to be heard. I gave him only one option if he wanted to be heard - talk to me with respect. It's sad to even have to explain this but they really don't get it, and were often raised in abusive households with a mental illness component, and nobody taught them this. His mother had raging BPD and his father was an avoidant alcoholic. Not the best role models for teaching manners. ;-)

Perhaps you have been a pushover, but sometimes we concede to avoid conflict. I did it at first as well, without even realizing it initially. And I am a hell of a stong person who has always had a reputation for not taking any crap from anyone. After a while, I snapped, and put my foot down. HARD. I had to.

And I think you need to as well. Or she will only increase the absurdity of her demands. You are doing nothing wrong by using a toilet, having hair, or eating with a spoon. Do not apologize for, or allow yourself to be humiliated by this. Her behavior is embarassing. Not your biological needs.

You might also tell her eventually "I welcome you and your kids to continue living here, and in return I ask for your respect that I will need to use the toilet or eat on occasion and yes, you may hear it. If you cannot abide by this, I understand you may wish to find a quieter living arrangement."

Underlying message, stripped bare: "This is my house and if you and your kids want to live here, I will not tolerate your disrepect, and I will conduct myself as I see fit to meet my hygiene and food needs, without apology. If you don't like it, you know where the door is."

FFS mean "For ___'s Sake".  

[BasementDweller]

That last entry was full of typos, and the editing feature disappeared before I could fix them. I also sent too soon. :-(


On Edit:


I would say her message was aggressive and hostile and also accusatory and belittling. I think it's highly unlikely you leave hairs on the toilet to test her. In any context, I would see her message as highly inappropriate. You have every right to be furious. She's essentially saying in a horrifically rude way, "I'd like it a little quieter and cleaner around here." The way in which she is drowning her request in sarcasm, accusations and insults is the problem, not the request itself. A non-disordered person would state that the noise and mess can sometimes be bothersome, and offer to work together  with you to find a solution. A pwBPD takes these inconveniences as personal insults that were intended to upset him or her, and responds as if under attack. I finally had to make it clear to my partner that anything he wanted to say has to be said respectfully, devoid of any sarcasm, taunts, or aggressions, or it will not be heard or considered. He blew up for a bit, but has now dramatically improved. Once he learned his needs will NOT be tended to if he expressed them rudely, he adjusted - because after all, the end goal isn't really a fight that they want - it's to be heard. I gave him only one option - if he wanted to be heard - talk to me with respect. It's sad to even have to explain this to an adult but they really don't get it, and were often raised in abusive households with a mental illness component, and nobody taught them this. His mother had raging BPD and his father was an avoidant alcoholic. Not the best role models for teaching manners. ;-)

[sladezy]

Basement, I wish I could word my boundaries like you just did there.or even fully establish what mine are. It may be to late for me to even bother.

Joe, I read the message although well worded as having malice, disrespect and an attempt to belittle or control you. However my own experiences in very recent times could infact be bias here. In my relationship it felt like I was in a constant power struggle. I never fought for full control, only to be equal but her not having the ability to compromise meant it was always an uphill battle being made look inconsiderate then having to repay my debt through requested acts of kindness (slavery) with no end in sight.

[JoeBPD81]

She told me yesterday "Someone made noise and woke me up around midnight". As I went to bed at 23.20, and I try to move like a ___ing ninja, I thought it wasn't me.

I wake up 2-3 times a night because S6 puts on some fairy-tales on mp3, and turns up the volume just for kicks.

[juju2]

Hi,

You could always pause.

Sometimes thete isnt anything for me to say, except, thank you for sharing.  or, "you might be right."(that also means they might be wrong)  cease fighting w her illness.

After I pause.  Pause again.  Pause.  Pause.

Because I learned on here, this isn't about me, I  really dont want to try to combat w their illness, it will end badly. 

I think most of the time when this aggression pops out, it's like we are their safe place to have a sh#* fit.  I don't have to get in the sandbox and have one back!

The emotions that it brought up in you, is revealing.  You mention the things you do for them.
Your attitude is not very pleasant regarding them.
Am not being critical, just notice.   My attitude determines my world.  People can feel it.

Maybe you want a different attitude regarding the people you say you love?  Remember, pwBPD are sensitive, she may be reacting to your attitude.?

Do you know how to get an attitude that more accurately reflects your values?


I am dealing w alot right now too.  My attitude has been a primary aspect of life now.
Thank you,  j

[JoeBPD81]

You can be critical.

I'm mad today. I find myself thinking "I hate... ." But I don't really know what. I don't hate her, or them, but I hate living like this.

I knew I wouldn't be pleasant, I needed to vent that somewhere. But I would appreciate if you can explain what you saw in more detail.

I do things for them, and I was happy to do them. Then when I hear "you don't even try", it puts everything in a new perspective. I know love doesn't expect anything in return, but it is human to want to be a bit appreciated.

[lighthouse9]

Hey Joe,

I'm really sorry you're dealing with this and then having to hear about it over text, too.

One of my biggest regrets with my STBXw was how much I let my OCD get in the way of things at home. It got really bad at one point and I saw a doctor and went on meds, but only after learning that my wife was fed up with me and falling for someone else. I did what any caring person would have done- shaped up and took responsibility for my issues.

I think basement dweller hit the nail on the head here re: setting clear limits and calling her out (using the tools of course). When my wife was leaving, she cited my OCD as a reason she couldn't take it anymore and had to cheat on me 6 months after I turned things around and lie to me with such a level of cruelty that I can't believe  I ever entertained for a second that I deserved it. I told her that this was a marriage and that if she would have come to me, I would have gotten the help I needed. In fact, I had already proved that. It felt so unfair that she just kept resenting me for things I didn't know were bothering her and when at the end of the day these were things that made me feel awful, too. I needed help, not enabled and certainly not blamed for her later bad behavior.

Now, mind you, this is a person who likely has BPD, so asking her to put limits on me or talk to me about things would have prevented her from her plan to be the victim. Cry me a river. And, I never had these problems to this extent until I suspected she has painted me black but refused to talk to me about it when I tried to bring up her unhappiness. Then, my only way of feeling like I had any control was to insert routines around the house that seemed harmless as a coping mechanism but were ultimately making things worse.

I don't have BPD (been through psych evaluation so I feel pretty confident about that). What would have worked with me might not work for your partner. But, it sounds like basement dweller has had some success and ultimately the real success is setting limits for yourself and not living in a prison that you don't deserve to live in.

I hear you that there are some tough scenarios in your specific situation, given the whole potential homelessness situation and the two kids. But, this is kind of ridiculous. And, if she can't step back and see how she's affecting you when you do set those limits, then this will never end and you'll be that frog in boiling water who has no idea that someone keeps turning up the heat.

Trust me- I would have done anything to have my crap called out sooner- but when she couldn't do that then I knew there was more at stake here. Deep down, what prevents you from setting those limits and letting her deal with the consequences? I can tell you that it can actually feel freeing for a person to give up some control, if they're doing the work and learning to manage their triggers. How might you create that freedom at least for you, and lead the way for hers potentially, too?

Good luck and don't beat yourself up for being mad- this stuff is maddening.
L

[BasementDweller]

Basement, I wish I could word my boundaries like you just did there.or even fully establish what mine are. It may be to late for me to even bother.

Thank you - I didn't have a grasp on it right away... .but I had to learn as I went along for my own sanity.

[JoeBPD81]

The thing is, I know this is disregulating, and painting me black. Other times she cries because she had given me hell for losing my hair, when she knows perfectly I can't posibly help it. She knows I was ridiculed since childhood for having too much hair. I clean after me, but it goes everywhere.

I want to read everything again when I'm not angry, and have a plan. Thanks a lot.

[BasementDweller]

Good luck, Joe -

And remember... .you can set boundaries without being cruel. Asking to be treated with respect, firmly, but politely is ok, as is refusing to engage if there is hostility.   

Give it some "cooling off" time if you need to. You did acknowlege her message, and did not escalate the situation. That was a good step.

[juju2]

I did not mean to be critical at all.  Please accept my apology.

I think BPD people can get so extreme, it brings out everything in me, mostly the bad.  So then, I am reacting to their disease.  In that moment, I've lost myself. 

I can't react to their disease.  I have to pause, not fight against an illness that i can't win.

I can call a safe friend, and say, what do you like about me.  What do you appreciate about me?  Safe person who knows me. 

I have to monitor, am I about to blow my stack.?

I don't know about anyone else, pent up resentments of all the stuff I did for him,no appreciation, all the bad things he said and did, it became more than I could process.

So I have to make sure when I do something, for anyone, it is without strings. 

Why do I have to always be the one doing things...

It takes me time to think things thru, find out what is going on w me.

Thank you,
j

[JoeBPD81]

All that came after a day when she was very affectionate. Lots of hugs.

Once I -Made the mistake? of kissing her, and she seemed to like it, she ligered on it. Then when I was already in bed, she came and hugged me again. It took my laptop out of the way, and she took that as if I was ready to make a move, and she got scared and ran away.

After pushing me away by those complaints, and a couple of days of limited words, today she explained to me how she doesn't want to be that close to me ever again, and how scary it is for her, etc. We already had talked about it, and I promised to keep things in a safe place for her. And I also explained that I wasn't making any move.

Today, I kept my answers short and validating, but she was very altered, and kept crushing my heart, and getting angrier and angrier by her own comments, and assumptions. 

She told me she would hug me more, if it didn't mean so much to me. Which is a cycle, because it wouldn't be a good deal if she hugged me more. When I don't have any affection and then she hugs me for the 1st time in 2 months, it IS an emotional moment to me. How can it not?

I read: "If you weren't alive, or if you were a robot, it would be easier for me to interact with you".

I get that my emotions scare her. But her emotions are a big deal every minute. Can't she see that?

I was minding my bussiness, respecting her space... .I wanted to go lunch alone to a nice place (still going). But now I go with my heart racing, and holding back my tears.

[juju2]

wow.  I am so sorry you are going thru this.!

my situation is really strange, especially when it comes to physical stuff.
this may he too much info for here, will do editing.
We from the start, early on, had relations.it was fantastic, great, and he could not climax.  So, I thought it was me, something else, who knows.  It happened every time...
... .

After a few weeks, or a week, I asked him if it was me.  He said, let me call my doctor.  He was up front w me when we met he had BPD. I didn't know what that was... .i figured if he knows he has it, he is working on it, no prob.
He is also recovery from something 19 yrs.
So, doc says that one of BPD meds could cause this, he said we could give you something else.
He gets new med, everything is great!

fast forward, two wks later, same issue from before.
I asked him one day, a couple of days later, is it me?  he said no, I had to go back on the other med, the new one made stomach aches and g.i. stuff.

Anyway, that is our sex life now for yrs 1-10, 2017
Is when we separated.  His story changed during that time, that i didnt want to have sex... .

So it has been our main issue we couldn't solve.
we kept trying, same results.  I felt shame that my partner could not have satisfaction.

I blamed myself.

At the end of 2016, we had become like roommates.  He said he wanted to have sex again, with someone else if need be.  Early 2017, I asked to live alone, I said we had gotten so toxic, that we needed space. 
We dated, it seemed like things were getting worked out.  Then Apr 2017, he had a surgery that affected that area to a worse degree... .

So we dealt w this somewhat on top of the other issue.

In October he dropped me from his life, he disappeared for two days, when i texted him to meet w him, he told me he is seeing someone, that he is dating others, sleeping w them. He said, "I have not been a slut." its been not that much... .

That's what I have been dealing w since oct 21,2017.

We started couples counseling, we had agreed to that prior to october, and it took 60 days, we didn't get appt til end nov.
T. is excellent.  She knows everything, we both spilled our guts.  He likes her, says she is a good T.
She has experience w BPD, has two people in her family w that.
She asked us if we could meet eachother once a wk neutral ground for coffee.  So we go to starbucks once a week.
T says we never built a foundation of friendship, we have no foundation to solve problems or communicate even.

We are doing this, baby steps, for 3 and a half months now, a few hiccups.  It is going very well... .

He says he only wanted to be friends, the T asked what he wanted.  I want it to be more.
So the T asked if i was willing to be friends.  I said yes...
...
He hasn't brought it up about being just friends, I see him inching closer.  More like centimeters, tiny things are improving... .i can see his blaming me for everything slowly melting.  Somehow I believe perhaps, it is working.
The only major issue now, he sees someone, I think I know her, he is very discreet, and they spend a lot of time together, like every weekend.

Some people say it could just be friends w benefits.  Idk.
It is concerning.  Him and i spend 1.5 hrs each week.  that is like a limit he puts on our time.

and last nite was coffee, before meeting me, he said i" have to keep it short, I have homework."
So he doesn't really value our one mtg a week, if he can't manage this.  The time we have is not increasing... .thats concerning.  Last nite i texted back, we can just make it next week... .i showed strength.!  we both had to get art supplies  so we spent exactly 1.5 hours doing that.  Exactly.
I behaved great, didn't share anything heavy, was calm, fun, dressed great, carefree.  You all know my thought.  So does one trusted friend.

Sorry this is so long.

my life is up and down.

Thank you for reading,  j