feel like writing to my ex's sister.. so i'm saying it here first

[Depression = 72% of members]

I just finished writing a letter to my ex's sister.  I feel conflicted about sending it so i am voicing it to you all first.

Basically had contact with one of my ex's friends through fb and we messaged over the weekend.  After sharing my sadness for me and my ex not being together the next day she posted pics of my ex with her new bf.  The sadism is just amazing.  My ex's friends are like extensions of her projections of me.  She lies to them of course. 

So i deleted the friend and then my ex.  It was the hardest decision that i have made but i felt more empowered that she doesn't have access to my life.  Now I did have the desire to send her sister an email before my ex gets to her about being deleted.  I want to share some things NOT in attempt to throw her under the bus but because i care about my ex and think that someone in her family should know something about her health.  Such as her getting off of meds.   

But there is a risk- they say when you unmask a narcissist they can retaliate.  I don't know what she could do except try to friend my exwife .  She could do this and make up lies to try and "win"  so that is the only risk.  Well actually the other risk is that in the future we will never be able to be friends but i'm okay with that risk. 

What do you guys think?  oh btw i didn't do this with my exwife and her family and i think i should have.  after we got divorced she went into the hospital for suicidal thoughts and i wish i had told my ex's mom and dad back then.  They were old and didn't want anyone to have a heart attack but the ramifications to me for not saying my truth or the other side of the story has been that i lost her family.

I don't know if this would save me from losing relationship with her sister/brother but i still wish that her sister knew the truth in case her sister needs help in the future?  I don't think they know she got off of meds etc.

[truthbeknown]

I just finished writing a letter to my ex's sister.  I feel conflicted about sending it so i am voicing it to you all first.

Basically had contact with one of my ex's friends through fb and we messaged over the weekend.  After sharing my sadness for me and my ex not being together the next day she posted pics of my ex with her new bf.  The sadism is just amazing.  My ex's friends are like extensions of her projections of me.  She lies to them of course. 

So i deleted the friend and then my ex.  It was the hardest decision that i have made but i felt more empowered that she doesn't have access to my life.  Now I did have the desire to send her sister an email before my ex gets to her about being deleted.  I want to share some things NOT in attempt to throw her under the bus but because i care about my ex and think that someone in her family should know something about her health.  Such as her getting off of meds.   

But there is a risk- they say when you unmask a narcissist they can retaliate.  I don't know what she could do except try to friend my exwife .  She could do this and make up lies to try and "win"  so that is the only risk.  Well actually the other risk is that in the future we will never be able to be friends but i'm okay with that risk. 

What do you guys think?  oh btw i didn't do this with my exwife and her family and i think i should have.  after we got divorced she went into the hospital for suicidal thoughts and i wish i had told my ex's mom and dad back then.  They were old and didn't want anyone to have a heart attack but the ramifications to me for not saying my truth or the other side of the story has been that i lost her family.

I don't know if this would save me from losing relationship with her sister/brother but i still wish that her sister knew the truth in case her sister needs help in the future?  I don't think they know she got off of meds etc.

[Dargumin]

I just finished writing a letter to my ex's sister.  I feel conflicted about sending it so i am voicing it to you all first.

Basically had contact with one of my ex's friends through fb and we messaged over the weekend.  After sharing my sadness for me and my ex not being together the next day she posted pics of my ex with her new bf.  The sadism is just amazing.  My ex's friends are like extensions of her projections of me.  She lies to them of course.  

So i deleted the friend and then my ex.  It was the hardest decision that i have made but i felt more empowered that she doesn't have access to my life.  Now I did have the desire to send her sister an email before my ex gets to her about being deleted.  I want to share some things NOT in attempt to throw her under the bus but because i care about my ex and think that someone in her family should know something about her health.  Such as her getting off of meds.  

But there is a risk- they say when you unmask a narcissist they can retaliate.  I don't know what she could do except try to friend my exwife .  She could do this and make up lies to try and "win"  so that is the only risk.  Well actually the other risk is that in the future we will never be able to be friends but i'm okay with that risk.  

What do you guys think?  oh btw i didn't do this with my exwife and her family and i think i should have.  after we got divorced she went into the hospital for suicidal thoughts and i wish i had told my ex's mom and dad back then.  They were old and didn't want anyone to have a heart attack but the ramifications to me for not saying my truth or the other side of the story has been that i lost her family.

I don't know if this would save me from losing relationship with her sister/brother but i still wish that her sister knew the truth in case her sister needs help in the future?  I don't think they know she got off of meds etc.

If the "retaliation", in reality can't be so bad for you then I'd do it.  Clear your conscience, if the people you message don't want to listen then that's their problem, not yours.  Thats my opinion anyway, more experienced people here might have a different view.

I can't imagine having a relationship with her sister/brother is a good idea though?  Surely cut all ties is best?

[truthbeknown]

There is only 2 retaliations that could be possible.  One that she try to contact my exwife and lie about things between us to make my life miserable or the other is tell lies about me to people in the community which she had done before to her ex but her son was aware of.

[JNChell]

truthbeknown, it may be wise to sit with this for a while before making a decision. We aren’t able to diagnose here, but NPD knows no bounds when it comes to retaliation. I understand that you’re wanting to be helpful in this situation and I commend you for that. The thing is, your feelings and emotions need care at this point as well. How do you think you can redirect your energy to focus on you and your healing? It’s not your responsibility to be a care taker to your ex anymore. It never was. I’d also like to add that going over your ex’s head and giving personal information to her sister may be viewed as a boundary violation to her friends and family and stir the pot even more. This is only my $.02. I’m sure that you will make the right decision for you. What are your thoughts on this?

[lighthouse9]

Truthbeknown,

I've been in a similar spot and sitting with the "power" to reveal somebody really puts a pit in my stomach. I've had to do a lot of what has been suggested for you here - sit with it, think about what I might want to gain, examine my motivations, etc etc. It sucks, because I know my STBXw is putting zero thought into the demise of our relationship, and I'm sitting here wondering if I should work harder to find her support. The potential for her to self-harm is there, but the kind of self-harm she's been engaging in is unfortunately the kind of stuff that people don't typically see as self-harm (drinking, working out extremely hard). They don't see the dissociation, the eating disorder (though they're catching on there), the history of cutting, and who knows what else I haven't seen, since all of this was revealed to me during/right after the breakup. Is she suicidal? She says no, but she's said some things that worry me - but not enough to tell someone else.

Here's another thing I've had to sit with: her really destructive stuff seems to only really show up in front of me. She manages to keep it together otherwise, for the most part, and who knows what kind of smear campaign she's put on about me to explain away her drinking or excessive exercise. I got clued into this when I did contact a friend of hers to express my concern. The friend was super concerned and wanted to stage an intervention. Then, after she reached out to her, she was absolutely cold to me and basically told me to move on. The day before she was telling me there is no reason to walk away from a marriage and that she'd help me fight for it. The only thing I can take from that is that the smear campaign is on, and the less I engage, the more contained it will be.

I ran into someone who is really important in her life recently, who could require her to get help, and who is extremely concerned for her. I said enough to probably make her ask herself some critical questions, but not enough to be the sole reason the wheels of support were put in motion. It was excruciating to sit there with this person, who cares about our relationship and cares about both of us individually, and hold my tongue. Absolutely excruciating. I do have some things at stake that are worth protecting from a furthered smear campaign. I also wouldn't put it past her at this point to be sowing seeds of how abusive I am, because she knows how seriously I take abuse and how accusing me of it would destroy me.

Anyways, moral of the story... .sit with it. Make a list of the situations where you would HAVE to get outside support for her and run through what that would look like. It sounds like right now you don't have reason to do that. If she's not showing people how not ok she is, then she's either capable of controlling it in front of others and is only showing you to control you (ugly truth) or she's so far from the point where she'd ask for help that even an intervention from loved ones won't work. Only rock bottom can turn some people around, and they may never hit it, as long as people like us continue to keep them from hitting it.

For me, the situation where I would have to get outside support looks like either a threat to self harm or a threat to hurt me/others. If that happens, I'm going to contact the person I was just talking about, who cares about both of us and who is in a position to sanction her and provide support. I won't let self harm or abuse become control mechanisms. If she goes down that road, then I will reach out and I will let her know I'm reaching out. No surprises. If this, then that.

Good luck to you - and maybe start a thread to send us the letter. I bet a bunch of us have similar letters we'd like to send to people.

[truthbeknown]

Lighthouse,

thanks for your input.  I think you're right.  When i tell my kids (older) something about my side of things with my exwife(uBPD) .  My exwife has the ability to turn my kids opinion of me and brainwash very easily.  My exgfs kids are very much better at looking at her like she is crazy and they manipulate her - its almost karma that her kids control her so much. 

I know she has the capacity to lie to her friends and turn them around.  My favorite quote now is: "it is easier to believe a lie then to believe your being lied to."   This is why people buy lies and believe someone who they want to be friends with or in a relationship with them i believe.

So as i sat with this and read both of your comments, i think you're right- she'll just lie or make up one.  My ex sister in law would lie about all the men who she broke up with. it was never her fault.  She would go so far as to say they tried to sexually abuse her when she wanted to explain why she wasn't with them anymore.  Of course that excuse got old so then she started being a cougar so that she could use the excuse, "they wanted more of a relationship then i could give them."  It's amazing how they morph and figure out based on other peoples reactions what excuse will work etc.   My exgf said to me "i'm still grieving my marriage."  to make me feel better about her pulling away.  However, she doesn't seem to be grieving too much with the new guy!  Now that i know she is a pathological liar I don't want to have anything to do with her and that is why i finallly cut her off as a fb friend.  I guess i know she'll use that against me with her siblings and I just thought maybe if i told the truth then they would just be aware.  But after reading your replies I think i realize that once she goes back to her sister(my ex) and talk about what i said my ex will re-engineer a response to make it seem like there's more to the story.  She doesn't know how to lose. 

I guess what is sad is that they don't care that they bounce from relationship to relationship and it doesn't seem to bother them.  So in a sense they always win by their standards even though it doesn't make sense to us.

[JNChell]

So in a sense they always win by their standards even though it doesn't make sense to us.

So, so true. Would it be safe to say that your standards and moral code are not even close to being in line with your ex’s? You’re very insightful here truthbeknown.

[lighthouse9]

So well said Truthbeknown - they do tend to always win by their standards. This is the sign of an unhealthy person - it's like the little kid who constantly changes the rules of a game in order to win.

Funny enough, my STBXw's little brother was like this and it drove me up the wall. He's a little kid, but every time I would take him outside to toss a football around we would end up playing a game of his making that let him win everything. He was old enough to learn to lose gracefully, but no one in his life cared to teach him that. I grew up learning that winning and losing were both part of sports and learned how to take my losses. Then, I went on to be a pretty stellar athlete. Her little brother really looked up to me for this, so he always wanted to play with me. I was sometimes successful with getting him to appreciate his losses or mistakes, but when I would tell my W about it she would shrug me off and say "he's just a kid, let him go" or worse would call me a bully for needing to win against a kid. Pure projection.

Total aside - but watching him being raised to always win and to not accept losses gave me some insight on her upbringing, especially when she had that reaction to me teaching him how to lose gracefully or how to make meaning out of loss.

Humility is hard for everyone, but especially hard for a person wBPD. I would rather be humbled and live wholeheartedly than win with the wrong values. I love what Brene Brown says about courage: if courage is something you value, then expect to get your butt kicked. And, she also says that she has no interest in feedback from people who aren't "in the arena" getting their butt kicked. My w could show courage at times and could show humility, but when dysregulated it was impossible. That's what maybe hurt the most - to see her devolve into something like her little brother, who needed to win, even if the prize wasn't really all that special.

I'm the real prize here  

Just kidding -

but I did tell her I was done competing. Winning and losing is valueless if you're not enjoying yourself and if you're using the ends to justify the means. This is what I tried to relate to her brother, who aspired to compete one day at the level I did as an athlete - you've gotta love what you're doing and you've gotta do the work to be worthy of the things you're achieving. Winning is nothing by their standards.

What are your standards? What does winning look like to you? Is winning important to you?

[truthbeknown]

Lighthouse,

Winning over other people has never been important to me. In fact when i was a teenager my brother would care more about winning then me and i was the better athlete.  His friends would even say "why don't you let your brother win?"   One time he and I were playing basketball and he was winning (i wasn't trying so hard).  then he elbowed me on the nose and i think broke my nose?  I got mad and allowed my athleticism to take over.  The neighbor Barney was an adult across the street and said, "so you just have to get (my name) mad and then he'll compete.   

When i was younger then that my brother and i got in a wrestling match. I pinned my brother down.  My dad was letting us wrestle in front of him.  My brother ran in the house crying and my dad called me over and said to me, "if you ever hurt your brother, you'll have to answer to me!"  My dad was 6'4 and was physically abusive to us growing up.   I think that might have shaped my idea of winning and losing. To win means you get beat up! 

As i have gone through my life i have competed more with myself then others.  When my kids were growing up and arguing i used to say, "it's not a compettion."  Meaning that i didn't value which one of them came out on top.  I valued communication.  My ex wife was all about winning and looking back i should have seen this.  When we were dating we got into a water fight at work (we managed restaurants).  She hosed me down and then i did the same back.  She played victim because i really got her.  I didn't know about all this stuff back then.

My recent gf must have sensed that i had issues with how she dealt with the kids.  Her daughter would cheat in order to win at chess and several times i said, "i'm not going to play with you if you're more interested in winning at all costs including cheating."  My exgf would not say anything to stop her other then "we like to win in this family".   Her kids controlled her and "won" all the time. 

Looking back since i unfriended her yesterday i strangley am seeing things differently.  Our dynamics would have never worked for a long term relationship because once she got off the meds she was unwilling to take feedback from me about things.  I actually learned how to deal with my exwife better because of her.  I learned that if I stroke her ego i get on her better side.  Sometimes i get more of what i want when i'm stroking her ego.  It sucks in a way but i asked myself if winning was more important or results?  So with my exgf i started to do that.  However then she turned that around on me and said i wasn't confident anymore and that she didn't get turned on by me when i wanted her or let her have her way.  So darned if you do, darned if you don't.   Push pull.   She knows how to destroy a relationship. 
Maybe there is a book in her for that ?  She wrote a kids book about letting go (go figure).

[once removed]

i wouldnt.

it seems like all these things just keep you connected.