His mood swings are getting to me

[Jessica84]

Yesterday, my BF blew up at me for reasons I still don't understand, then broke down crying. He ran to the bathroom, uncontrollably sobbing and hitting the wall. He came out with bloodshot eyes, raging. He looked like a demon. We were walking to our cars and he shouted at me the whole way.

He called a few minutes later and apologized (blamed his meds). We got together later, things were ok for awhile... .he started again... .I blurted out "STOP! JUST. STOP!" Now he was laser-focused on me. He kept asking why, are you mad?, geez, wow, you're really mad? - all while smiling, which really irked me - he was enjoying getting to me.   I said it again, "Stop. Please". Then I got the silent treatment - he slept in another room and left this morning without a word, a kiss, or anything.

After all that, he invited me over again today. I said no, I can't be around him like this. Of course, he has no idea what I'm talking about! He thought I was breaking up. When I said I wasn't, I got an earful... how I did this, said that, ruined a perfectly good day, blah, blah. Perfect day? I didn't bother trying to explain myself. He is severely depressed but so easily angered, stressed about work, worried about money... hard to be around. I want to be there for him but don't know how. His disorder doesn't give him a free pass to be abusive. It explains it, but doesn't excuse it. This is very frustrating.

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[Cromwell]

what medication is he on.

often when I interrupted the rage mode I would be shocked to see how she would almost instantly transform and always with a smirk. the fake tantrums I learned over time are a way of pushing boundaries out.

yes it didnt work the way he was hoping for, well done for putting a stop to it. you got punished by the silent treatment, but at least you have set a firm boundary that he wont be so quick to try again. I cant add anything more than to think you dealt with this maturely and the best you could for both of you.

[Jessica84]

Thank you. If my boundary was firm, I would've left as soon as he started up again, but it was late (after midnight). I was so tired and didn't want to get on the road with all the drunken St. Patty's Day drivers. Things calmed down quickly since it was bedtime anyway. His silence was punitive and uncomfortable, but quiet at least. I fell asleep with him pouting in the other room.

Doesn't matter what I do. I'm accused of being dramatic if I leave, or for not wanting to see him today to take more abuse. Can't win. He doesn't get it.

His antidepressant is Wellbutrin, anti-anxiety is Clonapin. He typically cuts himself off the Wellbutrin (hates the side effects), but he NEEDS it at least from December til about now, the "depression months". I think he's trying to wean off again, and it makes him mad that he can't - he still needs it - so he's mad he has depression. He's now looking into therapy and support groups. At last! For now, his coping method is lashing out at me, his staff, family, friends, anyone. ---> If I attack you, it's your fault for making me do it because woe is me, I have depression.

[Cromwell]

Hi again. the anti depressant he is on is (bupropion) is rarely used in the UK for depression but more as a non smoking aid and it is limited to about 9 weeks maximum useage. For the reason that it is not considered a tolerated long term treatment.

In any event, it is very rare for it to cause aggression that you describe but yes it is understandable if he doesnt tolerate the other side effects he will be agitated, but perhaps it might help since he mentioned it to encourage him to change to another type of antidepressent. Id see this as far more preferable to halfing the amount. some people take awhile to find one that works for them.  the clonazepam is highly likely not to be the issue here unless it is having a paradoxical effect on him which is not a rare problem at all. they can instead cause aggressiveness in some people, dependent on what dose they are on. I know this from personal experience with diazepam, but the same is true of all benzodiazepines which includes clonopin. it is commonly prescribed for short term because tolerance builds up quickly to it. its not used for general anxiety here but for reduction of panic attacks. problem is that if it is taken continuously, in a matter of weeks or months its effectiveness may decrease significantly.

another unfortunate side effect of anti anxiety meds in general is that they lead to a lot of fatigue which makes it hard to encourage things like exercise which would help his depression, particularly as he is halving his medication. At least if you encourage him to entertain the idea, it shows you do care and take on board his views. the worst thing to do is to stop taking the medication abruptly. if he does decide to come off he is doing the right thing by gradually coming off, but if he hasnt spoke to the doctor about it, is there an element of lack of compliance. im assuming he has BPD, in which case it is not uncommon for sufferers to sabotage the help they are receiving.

Im sorry if I couldnt suggest more about the emotional side of things, it seems you are being assertive. the most recurrent theme of when I stood up to my ex gf was that she would immediately cease what she was doing, even apologise, but then hours later there would be brewing resentment, passive aggressive behaviour, silent treatment and some sort of come back. I interpreted it as "ok I didnt get my way this time, but your not going to get away with stopping me from doing what i wanted to do".

hoping things improve for both of you.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Jessica84,

Sounds like a very unsettling situation. Were you ever afraid while he was angry? I'm glad you took some steps to set up some boundaries with him. Since I'm not familiar with your story, what is his diagnosis?

How are you using this time apart to refocus?

 
Wools

[Jessica84]

Thank you all - I know the meds are part of the problem. He goes on/off them without talking to his doctor, and doesn't take them on a regular schedule. He has a lousy T - a pill pusher, not a listener. He has all 9 traits of BPD, but 15-min appointments every 6 months will never get to the root of the problem. Officially, his diagnoses are OCD, Anxiety, Depression.

His suicidal ideation has returned. He tells me about dreams he has, fantasizes about different ways to die.

The screaming, crying and throwing things is increasing. It is scary, but I've never felt in danger. Getting others upset seems to be the only thing that brings him any joy, though he pretends it doesn't. He gets a sick satisfaction from it, then blames us when we don't want to be around him. His staff has threatened to quit. He's chasing off new clients too with his explosive anger. So it's keeping him in this vicious cycle of dwindling income and emotional support, causing more anger/depression, and more blaming of others... .

[lostandconfused6]

Unfortunately i know all to well how you feel last night my BPDbfs mood swings were every 10 min he was screaming at me in the hotel room because he caught himself in a lie my mom comes in our room and he is as nice as can be  we go down to the casino and 10 min later he is screaming at me again... .also told me some pretty hurtful things i cried then he randomly tells me he tried to kill himself 3 times in the last year i feel like this was for sympathy because he is known to do this when he has hurt me... .

I wish i could offer some advice on this but i'm at a loss myself

Is he willing to go to therapy more often?

[Radcliff]

Jessica84,

I'm sorry for the difficult time you have been having.  It can be very distressing to be with someone who has quit medications abruptly that are supposed to be tapered.

I'm not sure you can rule out any of the meds being the problem.  You mentioned that your BF is not taking the antidepressants regularly.  Is it taking the Klonapin (clonazepam) regularly?  One of the most worrisome nights I ever had with my wife was when she quit clonazepam suddenly without tapering.  I almost called for help.

But since this Web site focuses on coping tools rather than our pwBPD's meds, it seems like we'll be on firmer ground if we shifting in that direction.

It's hard to imagine trying to work the tools well in the middle of a medication adjustment, especially if your BF is doing it spontaneously against medical advice.  You're trying to deal with a moving target.  The tool that comes to mind first is boundaries.

Jessica84, I know you've been dealing with this for a long time.  Can you tell us about your boundaries against verbally abusive behavior?  What is the limit, or trigger for when you'll enforce a boundary, and what do you do?  Have you had successes?  We can definitely give you moral support, but hopefully we can help reduce the wear and tear on you a bit.

WW

[waverider]

meds can be a real issue with pwBPD as they dont really understand their limitations and side affects. They are often regarded as a quick fix, when that doesn't happen they get frustrated and have a tantrum, then junk them and look for something else. Add this to the lack of consistency in their regime of taking them the meds will struggle to work as they should.

They may make a shift in mood etc, but as this is registered as a change in their feelings it triggers them simply because it is a change.

If you are going to be in trouble no matter what you do then just focus on your boundaries and removing yourself from the chaos

[Jessica84]

Yes, boundaries. Mine is to walk away - to another room, take a walk, run an errand, go home, or hang up. He doesn't take it well when I leave for the whole night (I have my own home). When I go home, he text-bombs me and threatens a break-up. But when I go home when HE has to go somewhere, it's fine. He expects me to stay the night until he leaves the next day. Less dramatic.

This time I stayed at his place since it was so late. I was there, but in a different room, so no text-bombing. His silent treatment ended the chaos... .but I saw no point in returning for more the next day, as if he magically got better overnight. He can blame me, break up, whatever... .I'm happy to be away from it.

He knows he's suffering and extra-difficult to be around. He's been looking up local support groups for depression, online articles on how to fight it, and emailed his doctor. I hope he feels better soon. Something has to give... .bizarre behavior, even for him.

[Radcliff]

If he is reaching out for help, do you think he might be interested in DBT?  It's an impressive, supportive program that makes many folks with BPD feel better and more secure.  It has components specifically aimed at helping those with suicidal intent to feel better.

WW

[Jessica84]

I wish but he doesn't want to change therapists. This so-called doctor just gets a quick rundown of symptoms (downplayed by BF), then writes a prescription. Works out for both of them - they're looking for that magic pill, something that doesn't require any effort, or actual therapy!

Still getting silence from him... .I don't mind the silent treatment... .kind of nice, quiet, peaceful. 
I'm actually dreading talking to him again once he's done "punishing" me. I really don't want to hear his alternate reality where I was the villain who ruined his weekend.  

[CryWolf]

I wish but he doesn't want to change therapists. This so-called doctor just gets a quick rundown of symptoms (downplayed by BF), then writes a prescription. Works out for both of them - they're looking for that magic pill, something that doesn't require any effort, or actual therapy!

Still getting silence from him... .I don't mind the silent treatment... .kind of nice, quiet, peaceful. 
I'm actually dreading talking to him again once he's done "punishing" me. I really don't want to hear his alternate reality where I was the villain who ruined his weekend.  

I admire how strong and secure you come off and handling your situation. Best of luck

[Radcliff]

Jessica84, how does "reentry" go for you, coming back to baseline?  Are there things you can do to lay the groundwork for it to go smoother?  Is his blaming that you referenced really heavy, or more of a perfunctory blame outburst then it's over?

WW

[ClingToHope]

I’m sorry I don’t have time to respond to all specifically.
I am right there with you with the raging one minute to the poor me crying. To the next day nothing happens why would you want to talk about it confusion.

I wanted to say my husband was on welbutrin and had crappy side effects for him. Effexor is working well for him tho.
Best of Luck
Feisty72

[Jessica84]

Thank you! This is all so helpful. He called this morning, but in his usual way, made it awkward. "I don't know what I'm supposed to say"... ."what do you want to do?"

Why he has to make it so dramatic, like we're on the brink of disaster every time I don't see him is getting so old. I just needed a day off from his wild mood swings! I can't say that. I can't say how mentally and physically exhausting it is. By now, he's erased or rearranged the facts anyway so there's no point in rehashing it... .or trying to explain why I reached my quota of crazy after a day of screaming, crying, throwing books, mixed with just enough calm and normalcy for him to see it as a "perfectly good day"... .that I ruined.

I can't validate the invalid, I can't JADE. So I didn't say much, other than I needed a day of rest, then I changed the subject. I know he was hoping for more, an explanation, an apology perhaps? I will not apologize for taking care of my own sanity! He ended up wishing me a good day and said he'd call later... .so maybe things will be ok by then.

[Jessica84]

Great news! I just learned he is getting an award at an upcoming event I am planning. He will be notified today. I am so proud and happy for him. Hope this lifts his spirits... .ultimate validation of his peers. Also hope it's enough to soothe him for awhile and stop some of the self-pitying and erratic behaviors.

From a purely selfish point, it should at least make the call later go much better. I can congratulate and validate. 

[CryWolf]

How did the call go? Glad things seem to be going well.

[Jessica84]

No call. He sent a text instead saying he was in a bad mood, fighting his depression, and doesn't want to talk about relationship. I don't know why he thought I did? I replied "hope you feel better". No response and no call this morning.

So... .I need 1 day away from his outbursts, and he gives me 4 days of cold distance. My punishment for having boundaries.

It does make me worry a little, but that is probably the point - to heighten my anxiety, or to make me feel sorry for him, to let me know he is brewing, possibly re-evaluating our entire relationship, contemplating ending it, and trying to figure out how to blame me for it... .who knows. It feels punitive, but maybe he's just trying to pull himself together. For now, I am enjoying the peace and quiet. I hope it's not the calm before the storm.

[Radcliff]

Jessica84, great boundaries, and way to stay calm     It's great that when he doesn't re-engage as soon as you'd like, you don't pursue.   You mention 4 days of distance.  Are you fine with adjusting to that, or would you like to pull it in a little shorter?

WW

[Jessica84]

Thank you WW. Yes, better to give him space. It's always a concern when he needs days to get over some "sin" of mine, like having a boundary. But I think he's getting over it now... .

He texted last night to tell me he was having "mental attacks" so he's gone off his antidepressant, w/o telling his doc. He said it was ok, his depression should get better now. Oh yeah, that makes sense?  Claims it takes 4-5 days to leave his system... .he "knows his brain". Well that makes one of us! 

Could be his way of trying to break the silence (or explain it) and maybe blame his moodiness on the meds? Now the floodgates have opened... .he got lost driving this morning and called me for directions... .then called back to have me look up a phone #... .then again to say "thank you"... .then again to say "hope you have a nice day"... .and once more saying he was sorry he forgot to ask me how I am (but cut me off so he could "pay attention to the road".      5 calls in less than 20 minutes.

Silent treatment or blowing up my phone. Push or Pull. Life in BPD Land   

[Jessica84]

Well... .up to 9 calls now.

The last one was HEAVY. I don't know if I did more harm than good. He admitted he's out of sorts and doesn't want to make any big decisions, but thinking we should break up bc we "always" fight. He said the idea scares him, but he can't handle any kind of conflict right now (he's having suicidal thoughts). He's tired of being depressed, and a breakup would make it worse. I told him this would make me sad too and I'm sorry I haven't been supportive enough. He mentioned going to a support group for depression tonight, but worried that's like giving in to it. Told him it might be worth a try. I got "sounds like you're blaming me." Huh?

Then he said he was taking the day off, would invite me over, but scared to get in another argument since "we're not communicating well". Duh. None of the tools work when he's like this. He seemed so heartbroken, defeated, but at the same time, accusatory.

I stayed calm, but I'm running out of options here. I keep waiting for this phase to pass, but it's been like this since December. He blames me for "always fighting", but I'm the one having to dodge arguments constantly! He creates them, but thinks I do. He only sees his own pain and gets mad when I can't take the abuse or be more understanding about his 'condition'. It's like blackmail. When I use a boundary to get away from it, things go even more haywire with him. I don't know what to say or do anymore ?

[lostandconfused6]

Days like that are the worst i am going through the same thing right now just much more name calling and threats of violence along with all the blame being put on me for something he decided not to do... .

sighhh... .i just tell myself 1 day it will get better

[SunandMoon]

 Hi Jessica

You're really doing a good job of handling this! But I do understand how frustrating it is and the toll it takes emotionally.

Could be his way of trying to break the silence (or explain it) and maybe blame his moodiness on the meds?

I do think he is blaming his behaviour on the meds. Do you think he may be instinctively right?

This will sound weird, but I've sometimes lurked on BPD forums and have heard them discussing Wellbrutin and how much it messes them up. The vote seems to be for Effexor instead.

If he's going to go off his meds unsupervised anyway, perhaps you could gently steer him towards trying Effexor?

You're doing everything right but it can't work if you're fighting a chemical reaction. It must feel really bad for him too.

I also wonder if, seeing he's open to the idea of a support group, you could open the way for DBT? Maybe selling it as a type of support group / skills workshop, rather than therapy? Are there any resources near you for this?

I'm glad he's come through the tunnel and is talking again  maybe if he suggests spending time together, you can go out and do something, rather than go to his house. If there's a beach or nice park nearby, take a picnic - distraction is really useful at times like this! x

[Radcliff]

Jessica84, great job staying calm!

I told him this would make me sad too and I'm sorry I haven't been supportive enough.

Nice validation of his emotions! 
Have you really not been supportive enough?  Folks like us usually go overboard on being supportive.  If you genuinely think you were not supportive enough, OK to say this.  But be careful not to throw yourself on your sword and validate the invalid just to appease him.  This is invalidating to you, and just contributes to problems.

None of the tools work when he's like this.

The tools work.  But if you mean they don't make the situation all better, sadly, that's the truth.  You are avoiding JADE and you are using validation.  Surely the situation is much better than if you weren't using these tools.  I am sure you can remember earlier times, before you started working the tools, where you would have been making things much worse.  Give yourself credit for your progress.  You aren't where you want to be, but you've come a long way.

I stayed calm, but I'm running out of options here. I keep waiting for this phase to pass, but it's been like this since December. He blames me for "always fighting", but I'm the one having to dodge arguments constantly! He creates them, but thinks I do. He only sees his own pain and gets mad when I can't take the abuse or be more understanding about his 'condition'. It's like blackmail. 

It sounds like you're bumping up against the tension between the need for us to practice and get good at the tools, balanced against the fact that we are powerless to control the other person.  How are you doing with that?  I don't hear you saying, "If I could just get good enough at this, I could fix it," but sometimes we think that without saying it.  Are you able to live with the fact that he's going to do what he's going to do, and often you'll just need to let go and let him do it?  (If you say, "Oh sure, that's easy" I won't believe you  )

When I use a boundary to get away from it, things go even more haywire with him.

Can you give us an example?  What was the boundary you were trying to enforce, how have you enforced it, and how has he reacted?

WW

[ClingToHope]

I was finally able to read the entire thread.
I think I need to swoop you up for a spa day also.

I’m so sorry this episode has gone on so long. I know how draining it can be.

You mentioned you leave when he breaks boundaries.
So you do some self care when you do to recharge.
The leavening is good so you don’t get beaten down more but what are you doing to build yourself back up?

I’ve been finding just implementing my boundaries and no self care has made me reach my limit sooner and sooner and the inside anger doesn’t leaves just Aimee’s quietly
I’m going to try to do some building exercises for me so my tolerance can be stronger l.
Not sure what but that’s my goal.
How bout you?

[LivingWBPDWife]

I have the same problem with my BPDwife -- her mood swings are continuous, sometimes every few mins, sometimes hours, NEVER days -- LOL, I wish. Anyway, all it will do is make you crazy, since you are trying to stay in this relationship (I must for my daughter), its all about giving up on trying to understand, and simply taking yourself away as a target. I JUST was with my wife and daughter doing easter eggs with neighbors, I asked my wife to take a video of our daughter -- my wife has social media addiction, so her phone is in her hand, and she is always on it, but she looks at me as if I asked her for a loan -- she immediately dysregulated, said something mean, and I just walked away... .

You can't make sense of BPDs, they are mentally ill -- plain and simple. In your case, sounds like you are lucky and have him on meds, mine is in denial -- so I can't get her on meds, but sounds like they are doing as much damage as good --

The only advice I can give is when they dysregulate, mood swing, don't play their game, leave, go to the other room, etc. just LIVE YOUR LIFE -- its funny, I watch how all the 3 year olds act, crying, screaming, they want their way, don't get it, then I watch my wife -- she is EXACTLY like the 3 year olds, but in a 35 year old body, that's what you always have to remember -- so when my 3 year old is mean, makes me crazy, says mean things, she is just 3, I give her a pass, but my BPDwife and your husband are VERY MUCH THE SAME -- they are not mature mentally, and trapped in a younger state of mental development emotionally, no matter how much we want them to grow up, they probably never will --

So, here I am, I left the party, and wanted to enjoy the day with my daughter, but my sanity is more important, and I refuse to be the punching bag of my BPDwife, so just remove yourself, don't be mean, don't get defensive, just keep taking yourself away as the target and do something for you --

I feel for you, everyone with a BPD in their life, goes thru this each day, its horrible --

[Radcliff]

Hey Jessica84,

OK, I've been doing my homework, just noticed that you had an earlier boundaries thread:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=321339.0;all
and have been doing some hard work on it.  How are things going with your recovery from the storm?  It's a month later, with more daylight, is that helping things?  Congrats on still getting carded 

In the beginning of your boundaries thread you touched on something I'd like to come back to.  You described how it seemed to help to stay away for a short while instead of leave all night.  You also were great about articulating that leaving was to allow yourself time to clear your head, not a direct effort to control him.  Great work! 

When I was first working on boundaries for verbal abuse, I was advised to leave for just 10-20 minutes, to explain that it was because I needed a break, and to say when I'd be back.  I've read that once our fight/flight gets activated, it takes at least 20 minutes to calm down.  It sounds like you were experimenting with what periods of time you'd need to take a breather, and it seemed optimistic that you could achieve that and return before he got worse.  How has that particular issue been going in the last month?

WW

[Jessica84]

Thank you for sharing your wisdom and guidance. Sorry I haven't replied, I've been so sick with the flu.   BPDbf took such good care of me, which was a sweet surprise. Things have slowly returned to 'normal'.  I've even managed to sidestep a few landmines by adjusting my boundaries slightly. Small victories.

I no longer leave without telling him what I'm doing or where I'm going... .and if I'm leaving the house, when I'll be back. Most of the time, I don't have to go far - depends on how much time I need to feel at ease around him again... .get something from my car (5mins), shower (15mins), read in another room (30mins), trip to the store (1hr), work in office (2-3hrs), bedtime (8hrs), etc... .

I've found it works best when I can leave before things get ugly (let things calm down), but return before things get uglier (when he starts to panic/get angry that I've left for good). Delicate balance. Whatever crazy emotions swirling in him settle down much quicker when I don't engage... but also... when I don't freak him out by abruptly leaving. Not an exact science, but it's working ok, for now... . 

[Radcliff]

Jessica84,

I'm sorry you had the flu, but am glad it is gone!  That's great news about the support you got from your bf. 

It's also great to hear about your boundaries progress, and fantastic that you've found ways to reduce conflict and the wear and tear on you!  That is a good story for people to read, and b.t.w., you are now certified to teach this stuff!    You're edging up on 1,000 posts.  Keep it up!

WW