Staying at Mom's - revisiting my childhood with adult eyes

[truthbeknown]

i recently made a decision to move in with my Mom for a few months so that i could study for a board exam while i'm going through some transitions.  My life got a little turned upside down during/after my last relationship.  I still don't know why but when i'm in a toxic relationship my career suffers too.  Not sure if that has happened to anyone else? but when i don't feel loved or have high conflict other areas of my life seem to suffer.

At any rate, i thought i' would take my Mother's offer of coming to see her and studying.  I knew that there was a risk emotionally as i was going back to the source of most perhaps how some or all of my IMAGO relationship patterns have developed with women.  

My mom exhibits traits of either BPD or NPD or just plain old cluster b stuff.  She wears a "perfect" mask out in public but behind the scenes it's a roller coaster ride for those close to her.

My step dad passed last year and she is still grieving him.  I have tons of empathy and sypathy for her but she refuses to understand my sorrow for the last r/s i got out of.

As background, everything started out rosie the first day.  Then yesterday some of the judgemental behavior started coming out.  It's basically a superior attitude like she is better then everyone else.  While driving she calls other drivers stupid and The A hole word.  This is a 75 year old woman.  
I said, "mom, you're kind of a road rager huh?"   She just justifies it because she doesn't like how they drive or how it affects her (perceptive wise).  

During dinner we were talking about a religious holiday that is coming up and i got quite.  I was having a memory of being with my ex last year at her house.  It's so painful to know i will never see her again and all the things that happened to lead me to where i am.  Anyway, she said, "what's wrong?"  I said, "oh i don't really want to talk about it but i was having a memory of last year and (the holiday) and what i was doing."  She said, "my name, you have to stop thinking about her and just get her out of your mind."   I said that i hadn't talked about her because i know it bothers her and that she probably wouldn't understand my pain.  I said that i wouldn't have mentioned anything if she hadn't tried to unlock that door but since she asked i was honest and told her.

So then she opened up about her grieving and I said that while mine is not a death it was a death of something big- a possible relationship that i thought was going to be the "one" because of our religious heritage that we shared etc.    I also made the mistake of opening up about how it's harder for me because i can't date due to my circumstances with the job etc.   Instead of having empathy for me she identified with my ex and said, "well maybe that played into her not wanting to be with you?"   It stinks that my mother can't validate my feelings of sadness but wants tons of validation for herself.  And i'm mad at myself for being tricked into being open with her again.  I think i'm just an open person because i lived in a household growing up with closed emotional people and i compensate.  I'm also probably subconsciously seeing if it is safe to talk to her about it.  I get lulled into thinking it is because she is sharing stuff with me.  Now i see the pattern.  I pick partners who are the same.  They can share their weaknessess but then they use my weaknesses against me or they use my openness to judge me.   Yes my ex wanted a guy who makes alot of money etc but it would have been nice (and its a fantasy i have) to hear my mom say, "my name, she doesn't know what she is missing! she made a mistake, you have lots of love and talent and abilities and she's going to have a hard time finding someone like you."  But instead i get her validating my ex's (who i feel was abusive to me) point of view.  It makes it hard to want to be open with her after things like this.  

She is also OCD to an extreme when it comes to what other people do.  Even if a drop of water is on her counter she'll point out what a mess that i'm making.  Now keep in mind i'm in my 50's and keep things pretty well in order.  I'm not perfect and don't want to be but that kind of obsession just can't be pleased.  I asked her not to tell her friends that i'm messy or causing a mess because her definition of mess is much different then most people.  She said, "i'm not most people and most people are slobs."   Wow.  the judgement was think again.  The black and white of her being better then most really comes through.  

So can i handle staying here?  financially if i'm going to study for this test i need this but emotionally it might be a big challenge.  

ON the other hand i felt that maybe if i could learn about my interaaction with her and stick up for myself with her then it would break the pattern of me attracting women into my life who are like her?

[WalkingWounded]

Your situation really resonated with me, truthbeknown. In my experience, returning to the parental home is a trap and I've avoided it like the plague, despite the fact I have been in a protracted period of financial dependence on my parents. I've been lucky in that I was able to maintain my apartment and autonomy, with their help, but it's used as a stick to beat me with. I feel like a prisoner, despite not being physically in the home.

I know how sad and frustrating it must be for you when you want emotional support and understanding after what you've been through. I am only now starting to understand that we can't really get what we need from our BPD moms, because it's all about them. I'm not sure they have the capacity to relate to our feelings. I'm just learning about all this, so I'm not sure. There are probably degrees of severity to the disorder, depending on the individual.

I wish you luck sticking it out for however long you need to. The last time I attempted it, it ended in the longest silent treatment ever, so I would rather live under a bridge than ever do it again.

[Harri]

Hi truthbeknown.

I still don't know why but when i'm in a toxic relationship my career suffers too.  Not sure if that has happened to anyone else?

It happened to me.  Everything was affected.  Still is BTW, but I am currently not working o it is easier for me in that sense. 

Walkingwounded said: 

I am only now starting to understand that we can't really get what we need from our BPD moms, because it's all about them. I'm not sure they have the capacity to relate to our feelings.

  I think this is correct and applies to most people with a personality disorder.  From reading your posts it seems like you are still hoping, on some level, that your mother will listen non-judgementally, be compassionate, positive, encouraging, etc.  She is who she is truthbeknown.  Has she ever been able to be those things never mind when you are hurting and in need of support? 

Knowing the above in your head and knowing it on a feelings level are two very different things.  Keep reminding yourself she is who she is.  Stop expecting her to be someone she is not.  It hurts a lot to keep going back and not really understanding what is going on or why you keep doing it.  The hurt is considerably lessened when you stop doing that.  Yes, I just stated what is obvious for most people.  It wasn't for me and for many others who post here on this board and even the boards.  Change things up.  Even if she asks you questions and seems to really want to listen, tread carefully.  Chances are she does want to hear you but her way of responding will not change without work on her part.  It is not your place to fix that or explain it.  Take care of your side of the street.

So can i handle staying here?  financially if i'm going to study for this test i need this but emotionally it might be a big challenge... .  ON the other hand i felt that maybe if i could learn about my interaaction with her and stick up for myself with her then it would break the pattern of me attracting women into my life who are like her?

Yes!  Yes!  Yes!  Yes!  I am glad you used the word challenge.  As difficult as it is and will be, look at this as an opportunity to work on yourself and learn to break patterns that have been around for decades.  You can do this.  IMO it took a lot of strength and courage to make the difficult choice to live with your mom knowing how she is.  So take the opportunity to study and to grow. 

I am not your mother but I do want to say:  "truthbeknown, she doesn't know what she is missing! she made a mistake, you have lots of love and talent and abilities and she's going to have a hard time finding someone like you."   The first part of this applies to your mom as well.  It i heartbreaking when a parent can't see through their own issues and see their own kids.

[Turkish]

It sucks that we choose what's familiar in our romantic partners.  We don't know what we don't know. 

I don't find it strange at all that your home stress bleeds over into work or school.  I received the first poor job review on 24 years 2 years ago a lot due to the emotional impact from my ex.  Not even a token 1 or 2% raise that year either. I kind of recovered, but not entirely

Two years ago,  I broke down crying by myself in the Chem lab at work due to the stress of having my mom live with me.  I used to pride myself on never crying or coming close, starting at 14 due to school bullies and my home situation.  I switched that part of me off for 27 years... .I'm not encouraging you to cry if needed,  but only to acknowledge that the emotional stress is real and it  affects us. 

You've been here a while,  longer than me.  You mostly posted to the Leaving Board, or whatever it was called back then.  Now's the time to get the Improving tools under your belt,  yes?

We have them in the lessons at the top of the board,  but I think they are best laid out in Lesson 3 on the Bettering Board.  Are you familiar with any of them,  even SET?

T

[truthbeknown]

Turkish: thanks for your kind words.  I'll imagine you're my mom- .   

no to the tools.  I've been so overwhelmed that i have been focusing more on learning about narcissism etc for the last two months.  What my mom doesn't and can't understand and even other people who haven't been through this is the deepness of the connection to them changing in front of our eyes.  They just don't get it.  If another person tells me to "just get over it" i think i'm going to scream.  I wish i could do the vulcan grip and mind meld and show them my pain. 

She was so dysfunctional and now she is in a stable relationship with a new guy.  He doesn't know she is just using him for his money but he probably doesn't care because the sex with her is great.

I feel like i was in a relationship with a prostitute.  But at least if i had been I could've justified her being with someone else before we were done.

anyway- i digress.   See i can't stop talking about my pain.  it stinks.  I hate being in pain.  My mom lives in Az and my kids live in the midwest so staying here might be good for me but i would miss my kids. 

[truthbeknown]

Harri:   I meant to give you credit for being my mom in this post.  but I'll give all of you credit - thanks for sending me your support.  I felt trapped coming here but maybe some good will come of it.  She definitely wants to support me financially here which can be a trap but part of me doesn't care right now.  Maybe i will later?  but I'm in a weakened state so i hope i can make the best decisions?   What's weird is my exgf was totally dependent on her parents and that is why she was looking for a guy with money (i wasn't fitting that bill).  So on one hand, i have empathy for her but i still couldn't stay friends with someone who abandoned me just to improve her financial situation.
Alot of men are complaining about this these days.  I don't know if there are many real healthy relationships out there these day.  It's time to look into android partners like in the newest version of blade runner.

[Turkish]

The Tools aren't to change another,  but to perhaps give you peace on your side.  No to the tools? I respect your decision. 

My mother made false accusations of criminal elder abuse against me.  Are you safe there,  especially given how she shows another face behind closed doors?

Not to bring other board issues here,  but my ex and her Beau had the honeymoon.  It turned into DV and police action after two years.  I only know because we have kids. 

[truthbeknown]

T:  I meant "no, i haven't used the tools or No to the tools question"   I am sorry, my mind is scattered and didn't complete my thought.

So (yes i would like to find out more about them

Thanks for sharing about your ex.  I think my ex is more of a Narcissist and they don't know how to lose and seem to find what they are looking for.  From my experience, the ones who are Narcissist are highly manipulative and find ones that they can control whereas the borderlines tend to just take whoever is available?   

I am in shock about how many people will just sleep with somebody and stay with them as a drug of comfort these days. I feel like a minority and I don't want this.  If it isn't real, i don't want it. 
One woman who i met through a writing group has become like a pen pal and she kicked a guy out who was being very disrespectful during her daughters hospitalization and then just took him back because she was lonely.  In her case, i see that exploding again.   In my ex's case, who knows but it still hurts like hell that people will sleep with anyone just as an emotional security blanket.

Am I safe?  Yes physically i am safe.  I am just susceptible to being manipulated emotionally right now because she controls all the money strings. 

Another problem that i'm having is getting psyched up for studying.  I have this block and i don't know why i'm not excited about it.  I feel like i have no energy to do it and i'm sabotaging myself quite possibly.  That's not her fault but mine. 

I miss my kids already and they don't know i'm here.   I hate having to keep it a secret but their mom doesn't need to know i'm taking the test or why i'm here.

[Turkish]

I'm glad you are safe. The tools,  adjust the r/s verbiage as needed,  are on the Bettering Board best collated: Tools for communication, validation, and reinforcement of good behavior

The top level articles are,  in my opinion,  the best place to start.  They link at the bottom to discussions on each lesson.  You can access them by clicking on the Tools drop down in the green bar at the top of the site,  starting with Wisemind.

It must be so hard to be away from your kids.  I'm rooting for you to finish what you're doing to be reunited with them 

[truthbeknown]

I'm glad you are safe. The tools,  adjust the r/s verbiage as needed,  are on the Bettering Board best collated: Tools for communication, validation, and reinforcement of good behavior

The top level articles are,  in my opinion,  the best place to start.  They link at the bottom to discussions on each lesson.  You can access them by clicking on the Tools drop down in the green bar at the top of the site,  starting with Wisemind.

It must be so hard to be away from your kids.  I'm rooting for you to finish what you're doing to be reunited with them 

Thank you.


an update:

Last night something happened that really triggered me.  My mother and i had been getting along and we hung out a little bit yesterday running some errands etc.   Driving with her is difficult because she is SOO judgemental and such a road rager.  She swears at other drivers and calls them stupid.  I feel like i'm with an alien when she gets in that mode.  She just shifts into this part of her that i just don't understand.  It's like she has no shame about her behavior and feels totally justified.

The reason this behavior scares me is that my exgf who cheated on me was like this once she got off her meds.  The ex didn't swear and still wore a pretty good mask (more covert) but what is similar is or was the judgementalness of me and the ability to justify her behavior.  Again she wasn't as overt about it so it was harder to confront her and i suspect that is why she just started messing around with someone else rather then outwardly judging me.  It was a passive aggressive way of getting back at me for not being perfect?

So going back to last night:  i was in another room watching something on the tv and i got up to get a drink and heard my mother talking to one of her friends in the other room.  She was telling her friend "and he can't have gluten, soy and dairy- it's just weird".   She gossips alot and also tears down people so that she can look good.  That's just something that i know about her behavior patterns.  I had just spoken to her about this issue a few days prior and asked if she had any problems with me to address them directly to me and not complain about me to her friends.  She agreed.  The reason we had that conversation was because she was complaining about me being a messy person and i dripped one drop of water onto a floor mat in front of her kitchen sink. 

I want to qualify these experiences by saying that i know that alot of mom's can be overbearing or controlling of their kids but this triggers me because it not only touches on some deep childhood wounds that i experienced because of this type of behavior, but i wasn't old enough to defend myself when i was younger.  My dad used to kick my ______ based on her distortions over little drops of water and the like.    So while maybe others might think that i'm over-reacting to her behavior? I think i am having a chance to deal with this as an adult and seeing where it goes. 

So rather then barge in on her conversation and get angry, I left the house and went for a drive to a park near the house.  I sat with myself and my emotions.  I was more sad then angry which is my MO right now.  I am not mad at my abusers just really sad that they can't see what they are doing is so hurtful.  That they don't have the ability to have empathy for others.  I remember my exgf's Oldest son telling his mom that she has ZERO empathy.  He said, "mom you have sympathy, but ZERO empathy."   That conversation was the beginning to the end of my relationship with her.  Her son was feeling comfortable confronting his mom in front of me which i suspect was a big deal for him.  He had a lot to get off his chest. 

So I thought about that and other things while i was out walking around.  I had sent her text telling her i was out and would be back later but no details of why i left so suddenly.  When i came back she greeted me and asked if everything was alright.  I said, "not exactly."  She asked what i meant by that and i told her what i was feeling.  Right or wrong i knew that i had to do this for myself and I was prepared to handle the consequences.   So i told her that i felt hurt by something she said to her friend on the phone.  She seemed oblivious.   I told her the details of what I had heard her say. I asked her why she did it when she told me that she wouldn't in a previous conversation? 

She completely distorted her viewpoint on what she said, saying, "i was just telling my friend that i couldn't cook for you because you had allergies."   I told her what i had heard and she apologized. 
I sat down and just looked at her in sadness that I have a Mom that justifies the hurtful things that she does because of her own distortions.  Yes she did apologize abut somehow i didn't feel it was sincere.  Why?  because i don't believe she'll change.  I believe the next time she has the opportunity to throw me under the bus to look superior with her friends she will take it again.  It's just what she does. 

she wanted to know why i was so sensitive?  Actually, she  said, "gosh you're so sensitive. give me a break."  That kind of language is triggering to me because it feels dismissive.  It's like i was sitting there watching all my relationships with women that i have had flash before me in front of my eyes realizing that it all must stem from this dynamic.  this must be what I attract because the jekyl and hyde dynamic has been big in my life.  I felt like I was Keanu Reeves in the last Matrix movie where i go back to the city to fight against Smith.  My Mom is like Smith- the opposite of who i am- we're opposite programs.  She having NO empathy and me having WAY too much!  Perhaps we cancel each other out that way. 

So I answered the statement about my sensitiviity by telling her a story from my childhood.  I told her about a time when she went to visit her mom and i was a kid.  I told her how i clearly remember sitting in the car with my dad while we waited for her to come down from talking to her Mom.  Grandma was always nice to us kid but she really twisted my mother's heart around.  My mom and dad had travelled 18 hours to come see her and all she could tell my mom was the following, "it's your fault that i'm sick.  You come here and stress me out and now i'll probably wind up having to go back to the hospital.  Why do you even come here?"   That was what my mom told us.   Whether it's true or not I don't know but I do believe my grandma could be this way with my mom.  I could be wrong but at any rate i told my mom, "as a little kid I sat there and felt sad because i knew you wanted grandma to just love you instead of being critical of you."  I asked her if she remembered that and she said "no".   I said, "mom, I love you and i'll I really want is for you to love me for who i am.  I'm not perfect and yes i have allergies but when you make fun of me to your friends it's hurtful and i don't feel loved when you do that."  She said, "my name, if i didn't love you i would not have you here and would not be helping you."  The "helping you"  is her doing things or buying me things.  She thinks that buying things are love and I know I'm not here to change her personality- believe me i know but I did know in that moment that i would have to stand up for myself.  I knew maybe there was a risk that she would try to say that i'm "too sensitive" etc  and tell someone else about how sensitive i am but i didn't care.  The inner child in me felt good that my adult self spoke his piece. 

She apologized again and said she was not trying to hurt me.  I wished that i could make her understand that her judging ways have shaped my life with women but I can't expect that.  I could judge her back but I don't want to.  I just wanted to cry.  I actually did have tears after I told her about grandma and her.   I believe that she thinks that because i have allergies, because i am going through these career changes, because i feel sad over a woman that i'm weak.  From things that i have read about narcissistic personalities they can "despise" people for being "less then" what they're superior mindset expects.  So maybe in learning about all this stuff i know too much?

I don't regret telling her why i was upset.  I don't expect her to change but I needed to hear myself stick up for myself. 

My exgf said to me right before the end, "i know you are walking on eggshells with me."  She was perceptive and yet could not deal with my perceptivenesss.  I suspect my mom can't deal with my perceptiveness either because on some level doesn't that mean that they have to confront their own shame if it is reflected back what they've done?   

Perhaps my sensitivity is a mirror that my mom doesn't want to see but one thing is clear.  I'm back at the Source of where it seems like my relationship issues started.  I don't know if i believe that healing things with Mom will change my future interactions with women but who knows.  Maybe it's just changing me? 

thanks for listening for whoever had time to read this.

[Harri]

Hi again truthbeknown!  I think you did very well by speaking up and sharing your feelings.

Like you said, it is very important for you to hear yourself speak and for your inner child to know that you will defend him.  I'm so happy you changed things up and without expecting your mom to fall in line too.  That is huge!  She may, she may not.  What is important is that you found your voice and you are making connections.   

I don't know if i believe that healing things with Mom will change my future interactions with women but who knows.  Maybe it's just changing me?

Changing you and learning how you respond to triggers and then learning new ways to cope with them may very well have a positive impact on your choice of a future partner.  Your interactions will improve too as you learn to communicate your feelings rather than squashing them down.

Good job!   

[Turkish]

I'm so happy you changed things up and without expecting your mom to fall in line too.  That is huge!  She may, she may not.  What is important is that you found your voice and you are making connections.

I agree with The Board Beagle that this is huge!

My favorite boundaries discussion is here (click on the quote link for the whole discussion):

This thread is about "examples".  In this thread we will discuss your value, your boundaries and how to defend your boundaries.
 
For some background information with more depth, there is a great discussion regarding the 3 types of boundaries (mental, emotional, physical) that everyone should read on this thread:
 
BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence
 
Remember, our values and the boundaries of those values aren't about someone else. They are about how we choose to live our lives.
 
I have an eye analogy.  Eyelids play an important role in protecting our vision, right?  In this case, vision is the value.  To have good vision, dirt and dust are seen as harmful to the eye - thus we need a boundary to keep our eyes safe. Eyelids block the dirt and push the dust out - this is our boundary defense in action.
 
Eyelids don't try to control or punish or change the dirt, they just protect the "vision", consistently, day in, day out - often in subtle ways, sometimes in very visible ways - 400 million times in a lifetime.
 
Relating our boundary defenses back to the value is very important.  If we don't do this, we run the risk of loosing sight of our objective - and we may make matters worse. To be constructive, we need to have realistic values and we need to understand what our responsibilities are if we want to truly live them. Talk is cheap.
 
There are 3 parts, the values we have, the boundaries of those values, and the actions we take when the boundaries are threatened.
 
Some examples:

Value:	Important aspect of life that I commit to live fully.
Boundary:	Defining what falls outside of my value, what is unacceptable.
Action:	One of the options I have when a boundary is threatened.

Value:	I treat everybody with respect
Boundary:	It is not respectful to dominate or control by screaming
Action:	Communicate my values. Lead by example (education - proactive)

Value:	I treat everybody with respect
Boundary:	It is not respectful to dominate or control by screaming
Action:	When a hot topics begin to simmer, I redirect the discussion to a safer topic.  (incident avoidance - proactive).

[truthbeknown]

Harri and T:

Thanks for your feedback in this post. 

I think a shift happened tonight.  We went to one of her friends house for dinner.  There were mostly people her age there but her female friends really liked me.  I had a really good conversation with one of the ladies about her son going through a really tough relationship like we hear about on this board all the time.  She was very empathetic. 

When we came home my mom and I discussed the fact that i got a message from my exgf today wishing me a happy holiday.   I have not answered and posted a new/different post about this (feel free to read if you'd like).   But she saw me communicating on my phone about this with some friends. So we had a talk.  I finally told her the whole story about what happened. I realized i had been protecting my exgf by not telling my mom the whole truth about what happened.  I told her the whole story including how i got recycled and she had sex with me and then told me she wanted to be with other guys the next day.  She told me, "my name, that's not the kind of woman you want to be with.  You want someone who is going to love you for who you are and not one that is not mentally stable."  She went on to say that now that she knows the whole story that she would block her number and not answer her because it's tearing me apart.  She said, "my name, i know you are fond of her but think of her like a food allergy and even if you like that food if you eat it you're going to get sick."  Now that is ironic because i had been telling myself this lately.   I felt like she was being protective toward me instead of judging me for not getting over her.  I actually felt like she was offering some emotional support!   Holy _____   That was a shift for sure.   

I have wanted to feel like i mattered to my exgf and also to my mom.  My mom told me that it will be okay and that she loves me.  I think saying my piece to her last night made a difference. 

She went back into one small criticism about me leaving stuff around the house and i worked with her to reframe it by asking questions.   I told her that i respect that she has OCD but I also would like to ask that she sees the possibility that not everyone is like her; that i'm considered pretty organsized and clean compared to most people and yet i won't be perfect or be able to pass her standards.   She said that she doesn't expect me to be perfect and that she just has a problem with things being out of order.  SHE ADMITTED SHE HAS A PROBLEM!  Whoo hoo  that was a breakthrough!   

I said, "well lets tackle this problem together.  If something bothers you lets clean it together or show me how you would like it to be rather then in hindsight telling me how bad i am at doing something that i don't know how to do in your viewpoint."  She told me that she wasn't saying i was bad and that she just doesn't want a mess around.   

Anyway i thought it was a breakthrough.   I said that i wasn't perfect for my ex either.  She said, it wasn't you it was her and she was not able to know what love is.   That's not your fault. 

So seems like progress is being made.