Help with reversing a breakup, getting her out of her disengaged state

[juju2]

Awesome A

Am happy to hear about the positive changes€

juju

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ABC123987]

I listened to her, yes, but more importantly validated her experience rather than challenging it or defending myself. But MORE IMPORTANTLY: I'm now listening to MYSELF. I'm able to respond in real-time to questions from her under pressure, and did that very well, because I am somehow able to validate my own feelings and verbalize a response. Before, my mind would be racing to figure out what the right thing to say was, because I didn't know which response was 'valid'. Weird, not sure if that makes sense.

I don't know which parts of what you wrote are valid for her.

I will take a look at the Karpman Diagram tomorrow.

I don't think I need to do much extra reading or understanding at this point. The biggest change as I mentioned was in me. I have zero anxiety and a weird confidence that I'm not used to. I feel validated, and don't need her to validate my feelings - I think that's why I was able to listen, validate hers, and take responsibility for my part in this without shame, guilt or upset. I'm not even anxious about her deciding she's done with me. Again, I think it's because I'm not seeking validation for myself from her, and I think the anxiety was tied to lack of getting that. I'm self-sufficient now.

In fact, I no longer have the urge to discuss anything that happens in our relationship with any of my friends, get anyone's opinion, or try to determine if I'm seeing things right or interpreting things properly.

Left her place around 8am, haven't heard anything from her at all, and I'm comfortable with that. Heading out with a good friend of mine to dinner shortly, and feel very ... .free and relaxed.

I think the key thing I needed was understanding that I was not getting validation in childhood, well, not understanding it, but *integrating it*, and I was trying to extract that from others, her especially, and that's what I used close relationships for. I simply don't feel that urge or pressure or neediness any longer. What a difference.

*I'm the one who needed fixing.*

Chapter 3  (I think), of Loving Someone With BPD, "The power of validation" or something like that. Listening to that chapter did something to me.

[CryWolf]

amazing to read the changes you are making and positivity coming in your life.

[ABC123987]

We are now back to where we were, not just before the break up (which wasn't a good place to be anyway), but back to a full two years ago when we were absolutely 'together', before the chaos of her separation and divorce over the past two years triggered distance and break ups off and on, anger, and more.

So, did I fix myself, or did I 'fix' her?

1. I fixed my own, separate problem of needing external validation from her and others about the state of our relationship, etc. I wasn't certain whether this was a temporary state, or whether whatever I did in my head permanently changed that. It's permanent. I simply don't have the urge nor do I care to justify, explain, or talk about our relationship with anyone and hoping I can get 'advice'. It doesn't bother me that some of her good friends don't like me, found me too 'needy' and so on. I simply don't care. If they're around they'll see the changes or they won't and I have no need to explain myself to them. (And I'm only explaining myself here because it's anonymous and because I want to close out this thread so others might benefit. But this is my last post.).

2. With my own self-validation issues dealt with, I can sit with her and not be upset, not defend, explain, rationalize, or otherwise INVALIDATE what she was feeling, no matter what she says. It's not about being right or wrong about things - it's about validating her feelings and experience - once that's done, the rest will take care of itself. Since Friday, we've gotten back to her being completely open with me the way she was prior to two years ago.



How can you 'fix' yourself? I don't know. But if you're with a pwBPD or not, you need to validate what your partner is saying and feeling, or it will lead to bad outcomes. BUT FIRST: You must be certain you are not needy, and if you are, that you first fix your own self-validation problems. If you don't, it will be extremely difficult to make the relationship work or be better, because you will still 'defend' yourself either directly, or by feeling hurt by them. You must get to the point where you can be present with them, you can hear harsh criticism without flinching or being upset or taking it as the 'truth', and then you can focus in on what they are feeling, not what they are saying.

There may be other issues you need to deal with, but at the core I believe self-validation and then the ability to validate the experience and feelings of the other person is where you need to start.

Over and out.

[ABC123987]

I'm posting here even though I said the last post was my final because I have some information I think may help many of you. Go read or listen to the book "Attached" by Amir Levine MD. I'm finding this particular perspective of attachment styles is helping me understand myself much better and helping me change for the better. (I'm the anxious attachment style; M is the avoidant attachment style).

As for us, we are back together, but she is still devaluing of me, criticizing over small things, but there is a pattern. This happens after we have become closer, more intimate. I know I said she fits the BPD profile, and many of her behaviors do, I don't think she would meet the diagnostic criteria. Hard to say without her going and seeing someone. However, this new perspective from "Attached" is a much better fit for the patterns of behavior I see from her.

Example: we had a very wonderful evening Tuesday, were very close and intimate. I went to work the next morning, and went back around 1pm to drive her to the airport. She was furious I had taken the leftovers from our takeout to work, even though she acknowledged that I had asked her if I should take them or leave them here for her, and she said take them.

She said she would take the metro to the airport, even though I had taken leave to drive her there specifically as we'd discussed the night before.

All of this completely fits into the 'avoidant' attachment style, and our roller coaster relationship fits the anxious-avoidant trap described in the book.

Thanks for listening, and hope this helps some of you.

[wellthisisnofun]

ABC, I've been following your thread and wishing you well. This quote from a few weeks ago caught my eye:

I think my situation is easier, but maybe that's simply because I've become more stoic about all of this. Years ago I would be beside myself with anxiety, fear, hurt. Now I just feel content and happy.

Any idea *how* you were able to change in that way? That's where I'm struggling. In my "wise mind" I see that the relationship I'm in is not a good one for me and will likely never change - but I can't seem to feel good about that, and instead just have lots of anxiety, fear, and hurt, as you put it, over the loss of "someone" or the "idea of someone." And it's particularly hard when you recognize your own codependent tendencies and how they contributed to the enmeshment (we've been married for 10 years - seems like we are >< this close to divorce). Any insights, practical suggestions, etc., would be astoundingly appreciated.

[ABC123987]

You ask, any idea *how* I was able to change in this way. That -is- the right question, but how to provide an answer that actually helps?

In the following, there is you, and there is the other person. For this, assume the other person is the one you're obsessed with, because that's really what it is. That would be your pwBPD or other pw other issue(s) (go read the book, Attached, by Dr Amir Levine - attachment styles are extremely useful as a model).

1. It isn't about the other person, it is about you. You HAVE to stop making the focus of your thoughts and actions about anyone other than YOU. As long as you make it about the relationship with the other, or about them, you are lost.

2. That does NOT mean you can't and should not interact with the other person, or stay in a relationship with them. In fact, staying in the relationship will give you the ability to practice new behaviors and see their effect.

3. But you MUST be centered (self-centered if you like).

4. That does NOT mean the other person should be focused on you, or do what you want, or should meet your expectations. Get that through your head. They don't OWE YOU ANYTHING, and you don't owe them anything.

5. You HAVE to stop expecting the other to be or do what you want or expect. Period. You have to let it go, all of it. You have to learn to become secure in yourself. In the words of the Attachment book, which is just one model, you must learn to have a secure attachment style.

That will take practice.

I have a friend who is having difficulties - she is the anxious attachment style, to the max. Here is a text conversation with her from today. I post this here because it shows better than I can explain what I mean by a secure attachment style:

START OF MESSAGING:

HER:
   And I don't know if he can provide “secure” He’s secure in his own way but he just doesn’t know how to give me a hug and give me some kind of consolation. My old boyfriend max always knew how to console me and move on .

ME:
   I’m in a meeting right now, will get back to you later. Just saying that you have an opportunity to sort yourself out in this relationship, whether it ends up lasting or not. If you leave this one, you’ll just do this all over again with the next man, and the next, and the next. You’re free to do that of course, but what’s the hurry? Why the rush? You’re the one who is pissed off but you need to take responsibility for your portion of that, and you aren’t. Back in a bit.

HER:
   No rush. I’ll still be crazy in a bit.

ME:
   I believe you have really let yourself down in this specific instance. You did not take responsibility for yourself, you made him responsible for your anger and upset, and you are making him ‘pay’ for it. Seriously, he may have been a bit inconsiderate, but from the behavior I experience from M sometimes, what he ‘did’ was so insignificant it doesn’t merit your anger in my opinion.
   You chose to wait when he was late. You chose to become pissed as a result of your waiting. That’s not on him. And his phone died. I can’t count the number of times I said I’d be back in an hour and it was two or three because I went off to do other things. And his phone died.
   Even if he was being avoidant, you have a responsibility to set boundaries, and what you did instead was do protest behaviors. You said, “I’ll make plans for myself in the future.” Frankly, stop it.
   What you could have done instead, and what you can still do, is recognize that he is not always timely or accurate about when he’s going to return. You can set a boundary: “Listen, XXX, sorry I got worked up, but I really wanted to go to the gym and work out with you. I still want to, but in the future, if you say you’ll be back at a certain time for a workout and aren’t, I’ll wait 5 minutes, and then go workout on my own.”


HER:
   That’s a healthy response. I did apologize when he got here last night

ME:
   Yes, it’s a secure response. It recognizes and accepts that you want him there, but if he’s not, it’s ok, you’ll still go do waht you want or planned. Instead, in this instance, you made him the bad guy, you worked yourself up, you had all kinds of anger, because you weren’t being responsible for yourself. You are not his responsibility. If you want to wait 2 hours for him to return and miss your workout, that’s on you.

HER:
   My therapist suggested that I ask him if I can tell him when I’m feeling really insecure/anxious/crazy. So I asked him. He said sure except what happens if his phone dies. I said I’m working very hard to change this part of me. His response was “. I’m not trying to change you”. I just replied with I’m changing for me - and I would like to try to communicate when I’m feeling really spun up

   And yes your reply above is exactly what I should have done.
   And i know that.

ME:
   If you text him and it isn’t delivered, that should be an indication that his phone died. If you both have iphones that is.

HER:
   It was delivered .
   But not read
   But the kids tried to call him and it was odd
   Off * so it was dead.

ME:
   It doesn’t matter. If he doesn’t read or answer, and is late, give him the benefit fo the doubt. Go do what you planned to. Live your life.
   (Might be his macbook accepting the message?)

HER:
   It is. His MacBook accepts iMessages.

ME:
   Then that’s why it said 'delivered'.
   You need to lower your expectations, and live your life. I feel so much better now that I’m not demanding that she be or do what I want, or even what she said she would do but didn't. When she doesn’t do something she said she would, if it’s significant enough, I’ll gently tell her I’m disappointed, but it’s ok. And will go do whatever I was planning to do. When she attacks me, I know it's not about me, it's her freaking out because she feels overwhelmed and too close and intimate, and has to push me away, and she does it by finding fault in me and using it to push me away.
   Don’t make him the center of your  life, or expect to do everything together. Make your plans to include him, but when he’s not available, go do on your own.
   I could never ask M to let me contact her when I’m freaked out, at least not right now. For me, to be coming from a secure place means I stand on my own two feet and deal with s*h*i*t myself. It’s my responsibility to take care of myself, and disappointment is ok. It is not her responsibility to meet my needs or expectations. But if she can't meet my needs, I have to do that for myself or move to another relationship that does.
   I’m hopeful, but I am ready to say let’s just be friends if the extreme avoidant behavior of hers continues, or she’s not meeting my needs over the long term. I won’t have a relationship exclusively with her if she isn’t affectionate with me, and if she continues to actively or otherwise make me feel insecure in this relationship. I will be calm and gentle about it, but I will go to platonic friends or friends with benefits and date other women if her behavior is a continuation of making me feel insecure, regardless of whether she can help it or not. BUT, I will be clear about why I am putting us in the friends category, that she makes me feel insecure in the relationship, with specific examples of it. Then it’s up to her if she wants to work on it or not.
   With him, you can say, “Hey, right before I go on travel, you start becoming avoidant and weird. Maybe it’s because you don’t want me to go, and I get that. But I’m always thinking of you. When you become avoidant, I start freaking out, and I’m working on that.”
   I’m in no hurry, and I’m learning a lot. I think M and I will be fine. I’m being very calm about whatever happens, and keeping it in perspective.

HER:
   I pulled a 'you' and made him hug like a real hug. Sat on his lap. Gave him a kiss. Now I’m going to go do some stuff for myself.

ME:
    Worked for me, esp when I'm using it humorously.
 
HER:
   Making him a good dinner tonight. Too

ME:
   Are you going overboard the other way now?

HER:
   Nah, I make dinner for us a lot. Food and movies is what we do best.

END OF MESSAGING

(FYI - I don't consider the word sh*t to be pornographic. Whoever runs the BPD forum needs to allow for reasonable cuss words. It's ridiculous to edit that out, IMO).

So the answer to your question, how did I change: I somehow got to the point where I realized that everything is ok. If we don't work out, that's ok, and my pushing on it or pursuing M was actually making things worse. Get a life. Do what you enjoy. Grow yourself. Reading the Stoic philosophers helped me as well. There are only a few things you can truly control; everything else you have to let go of, do your best, but have zero expectations.

The path is different for everyone I think. Read the Stoics. Read "Attached" by Amir Levine. Determine if your anxious, secure or avoidant attachment style. Practice being aware of what is going on. Stay with your experience. UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE OK. Understand that you can have other relationships in the future. Don't think that you have to stay because you won't ever find anyone else. Don't make it about the relationship. Stop chasing the relationship. Stop giving up your life for the relationship. The relationship, if you move to a secure, stable internal life, will take care of itself. And if it doesn't, if it ends, then there really was nothing you could do about it in the first place. Move on if that's what happens. Often though, when you take care of yourself and become secure in yourself, it changes the dynamics, and the other is forced to change. Hard to say whether that means the relationship will survive or not. BUT IT'S NOT ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP. IT IS ABOUT YOU AND YOUR LIFE.

Ultimately, you have to be the one to get yourself unstuck. I hope what I wrote above can help. You have to live your life. If you are consumed by the relationship, if you are focused on it, spending all your mental energy on it, that is extremely dysfunctional and damaging to you. Stop doing that. As you become more secure in yourself, you won't take things personally, you will start enjoying your life, and the relationship will take care of itself.

I saw a movie not long ago, The Holiday, with Cameron Diaz - not my favorite actress, but go watch it on Netflix. The British woman who goes to the US trading houses, the guy she was with shows up, it's telling. Trust me. Go watch the movie.

[ABC123987]

i want to add something to what I wrote yesterday (as if that wasn't a lot already).

You have to be responsible for your own needs, actions and reactions. If you put that on the other person, or if you blame their behavior for not having your needs met or for your actions and reactions, then you are not taking responsibility for yourself, and things will not change.

You are responsible for having your needs and wants met, not the other person. You are not their responsibility. Get that through your head and your relationship with them will almost certainly improve. If you don't, you are essentially demanding that they meet your needs.

Here's the interesting part: While many of your needs in a relationship can only be met by the other person, THEY ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO MEET YOUR NEEDS. It is you who are obligated to assess whether your needs are being met, to communicate your needs to your partner, and see if they can or want to meet your needs. If they don't or can't, then it is YOUR responsibility to determine if you are willing continue in the relationship where it doesn't meet your needs, or if you want to leave it. If you stay, you have to stop expecting them to meet your needs, because that's now on you - you chose to stay in a relationship that wasn't meeting your needs even after you communicated what those needs are to your partner, and your partner cannot or will not fulfill them. You cannot blame your partner for not meeting your needs; you have to take responsibility for staying in a relationship that does not meet your needs. In the same way, it is their responsibility to communicate their needs to you, and for you to determine if you can or want to meet their needs in the relationship.

I was obsessed with my relationship with M, I was always thinking about it, trying to 'manipulate' it, censoring myself to 'protect' it and prevent her reactions, acting out when her behavior towards me was not what I wanted or hurt me, and so on.

As long as I was focused on the relationship, I wasn't focused on taking care of myself, evaluating whether the relationship was meeting my needs, and communicating effectively what my needs were and how her behavior was affecting me.

I've always had an anxious attachment style (in the vernacular of the model used in the book "Attached", and I always eventually gave up myself for the relationship, usually very quickly, and lived for the relationship, instead of being myself and bringing who I was into the relationship on a continuous basis. That is a guaranteed way to screw up yourself and your relationship.

I started turning the corner with the BPD books when it struck me that none of M's behavior was my fault. I do think my anxiousness and pursuing her more intensely during the times she would pull away exacerbated her negative behaviors, but my actions were a trigger, not a cause of her behavior generally or towards me.

She was the cause of her own behavior, and she always was. I was taking on responsibility for her behavior as if I had any control over it. I was taking responsibility for her behavior as if what I did or didn't do, said or didn't say, was why she behaved as she did. She may have been reacting to my actions or words, but *how* she reacted and responded was always on her, not on me, and positive or negative reactions from her were never about me.

I can't make someone love me and act in a positive loving way towards me. What made me think I can make someone treat me badly and act in negative ways towards me?

Something from The Four Agreements is relevant here, the second of the four agreements:

Don’t take anything personally: Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality as perceived in their own minds. Become immune to the opinions and actions of others.

And that's 'how I did it' - it's how I changed, and is probably the best answer I can give you.

A blend of reading the Stoics, reading BPD books, the book "Attached" and probably others, including the Four Agreements, led me to the realization that I cannot control much of anything, really, even myself to a large extent, but what I could control was how I thought about these things.

I don't know whether M would meet the BPD diagnosis or if her behaviors fit that model extremely closely, and I don't know if I'm barking up the wrong tree with the "Attached" book's attachment styles model. But it doesn't matter, because the result was that it changed what and how I thought about my role in relationships, and my lack of responsibility for myself.

The point is that the BPD books, the Attached book, and all the other reading and thinking I've done has LED ME TO UNDERSTAND THAT I AM NOT THE CAUSE OF OTHER PEOPLE'S ACTIONS, REACTIONS OR BEHAVIORS.

In the head of your pwBPD or other, it's never about you - it's always about them, what they're experiencing, how they think, feel and act based on past and current experience or whatever is going on in their own mind and body. Certainly you can have an effect on them - if they are overwhelmed with emotions they don't know how to handle, being pushy and demanding about changing, being closer to you, or pursuing them will likely add more pressure and make their feelings of overwhelm that much greater, BUT YOU AREN'T THE CAUSE of their inner life to begin with.

And here's the kicker: IN YOUR OWN HEAD, IT IS ALWAYS ABOUT YOU. Everything you're doing in the relationship is about YOU, not them. You're the one who is expecting the other to be different, to change, to meet your expectations, to treat you better or to be different than they are. That is all about YOU and YOUR needs, not theirs. And you need to take responsibility for that.

In your head, it is all about you, and that is how it SHOULD be. You should be focused on what you want and need in the relationship and in general. It can't be any other way. No one else can digest your food for you. That has to be done by you. It is normal and natural for everything to be about you in your own mind. That isn't 'selfish' in the negative sense, so get over the BS now. Proof? If you love your partner, who is doing the loving? Where is that coming from? Who is having those feelings? Who is expressing those feelings towards your partner? YOU, YOU, YOU and YOU. Love comes from you, because of what YOU feel, what YOU value, what YOU want. So it is always about you. You do things for your partner because YOU love them. Are you getting

I will say that the Attached book's model has been so much more helpful to me than all of the BPD books combined (though the chapter on the hidden power of validation in one of them was extremely helpful to me). I had gotten to the point where I understood that M's behavior was not my responsibility, but I didn't have a way of thinking about her behavior that I could use to adjust my responses to meet her needs or to de-escalate. More importantly and primarily, it has helped me understand MY behavior, my 'attachment style' (anxious) and how I often made things worse - read about protest behaviors in the anxious and avoidant attachment styles - "Well, if you won't show up on time, I'm never going to make plans with you again." is a protest behavior, not a healthy response.

Before you say, "Well, that's you giving up your needs for her or censoring parts of yourself for the relationship," I will tell you you're so wrong. I love her, and adjusting my approach to make our interactions healthier comes from me feeling much more secure about MY attachment style. I'll assess whether my needs are being met later and will communicate my needs and how I feel with her, and will keep re-assessing. If my needs aren't being met and I've communicated clearly, calmly and without blame or expectation, then I will change the nature of our relationship, offer her the opportunity to remain friends, and date and find someone who can meet my needs, and someone I can meet the needs of in a relationship.

I no longer obsess about our relationship, I'm no longer preoccupied with it, thinking about how I can 'manipulate' the situation, no longer playing 'games' and my protest behaviors have disappeared. I'm available, non-interfering, and happy. I've moved a considerable way to a 'secure attachment style' and it has made a world of difference.

M and I had an intimate, close evening last Tuesday. The next afternoon, she was distant and attacked me for taking the leftovers to work that morning, "Thanks for leaving me something to eat; and you're so selfish" despite the fact, and she acknowledged this, that I had asked her if she was going to eat them or should I take them to work - she told me to take them to work. So it wasn't about the food, it was about her feeling too close, and having a need to push me away. Instead of debating with her, or trying to 'recover', I was calm, and when she asked, don't you think it was selfish, I said calmly, "No, I don't think it was selfish of me. I asked you if you wanted them, you said take them to work with me." Then I let her work and sat outside surfing the web for a while. I drove her to the airport (she was adamant she would take the metro instead, even though I took leave from work to drive her, but my calmness and not engaging in the 'dispute' I think brought her around). She was still distant when I dropped her off, but I wasn't phased by it. I let it be. When she texted me, I replied directly and without embellishment or humor or acting like I was trying to 'reverse' the distancing. When she came back on the Friday, I didn't go over there, and she didn't invite me, until the Sunday, "Want to come over for a minute?". I said, ok, went over and over the course of 3 hours she warmed up to me again. She's on work travel this week, and I'm 'available' when she texts (no games), but I'm not 'pursuing'. I'm doing my own things and enjoying NOT mulling over the relationship constantly. It is such a liberating feeling, and the relationship is improving. She is now asking my WaYD? at least 3 times a day which hasn't happened in a long time. She wants to connect, and I'm now stable enough to not want to reciprocate any of her past negative behaviors.

If she becomes very negative and attacking again, I won't take it personally, because it's not about me.

During our 3 hours on Sunday, I communicated my needs more directly. She said I should keep the house (I'm going through separation and divorce). I replied, "You say that now, then you say the opposite. You want me to keep it because you can spend time here with me, but then you want to go back into the city and live there on your own the rest of the week, and that hurts me and doesn't work for me. I decided she can have the house, and I'll live in my apartment. I won't ask to move in with you, so don't worry about feeling pressured about it." She said no, we would both live at my place part of the week or weekend, and then we would both go live at her place the rest of the work week for a good commute."

Right before dropping her off at the airport, I said, "Ok, here's how this is happening. I'll pull up to the United entrance, get out of the car, walk around, and we will hug and kiss and say goodbye properly," in a serious way but with obvious humor in my tone. She said she doesn't hug when she's been in a relationship or a long time; I replied, "Really? So no more hugs? That doesn't work for me. Not the kind of relationship I want." We got there, hugged, kissed and said goodbye.

I'm over my fear of stating my views and needs directly. I simply now do it calmly and without blame or anger or getting worked up.

My advice:

- Read "Attached"
- Work on getting yourself to a secure attachment style
- Understand that the other's behavior is never about you
- Understand that you cannot change them or their behavior

Do that, and you will likely find that the other person automatically adjusts and changes because you have, and if it's not positive, if things get worse with them, you can give it some time, but if it stays that way, you need to assess whether it's the right relationship for you.


You say you've been married for 10 years. I haven't read these books yet, but bought them on advice from the friend I mentioned in my last post and will read them soon. Maybe they'll help you. Again, focus on you, not her, not the relationship or marriage. (I think the relationship or marriage is like happiness - it's not something you can directly work on, it's a side-effect of other things like your thinking and behavior):


The Divorce Remedy: The Proven 7-step program for saving your marriage

Divorce Busting: A step-by-step approach

Both are written by Michele Weiner-Davis



Good luck, and if you have specific questions, post them and I'll try and answer them.

[ABC123987]

It's been a long time since I posted here. Updates:

- We are no longer together. We didn't actually, explicitly break up; I just stopped going over to see her and eventually stopped all texting. More on that below.

- I found a great therapist who confirmed what was going on in this relationship, and why I pick women like M. I won't go into great detail, but I'll give you a sense of what was happening in me.


First, I want to be very clear: while it is not M's fault that her personality is fragmented, it is her responsibility now to resolve her own issues. Period.

Second, while I did have a part to play in this dance, it was a passive part. I was not in her face about anything, I never yelled at her, nor did I snap at her or otherwise treat her badly. I was a victim of her borderline behaviors, but a willing one because I stayed as long as I did.

I was a willing 'victim' because I have / had some traumas in childhood that caused me to stay, to experience the abuse and continue to do so, and to go quiet. I may even say that I 'picked' her out somehow knowing how she was going to be, to try and recreate the childhood traumas I'm told so that they could be resolved. That's not how to resolve them, however.

The traumas I had were with a emotionally sadistic mother. I didn't realize this until I'd gone through about two months of therapy, once a week. I had done a lot on my own to sort myself out with respect to M, successfully, so that by the time I started seeing this therapist, I was mostly stable and free of much of the hold M had on me. but the underlying causes from childhood that caused me to be a victim instead of standing up, facing the behavior and addressing it directly were still not resolved.

My advice? Don't focus on the borderline, turn the spotlight on yourself. The rules of this forum are that you aren't supposed to tell others to get out of the relationship. I'm here to tell you that you may need to do exactly that, at least for a few months, to get your bearings, to stabilize and that you absolutely need to understand your motives for being in the relationship. Yes, when the behavior is really good, it's amazing, but underneath we know what's going on and we pick people based on what's going on in us.

I recommend reading Ego State Therapy -- it's what I think goes underneath what happens in all of us, and what's underneath, the next layer down, of Walking on Eggshells. It gets at the root of what's happening. Integration of your ego states is what you want to aim for.

M is toxic to relationships. She destroys all of the romantic relationships she has. She told me, not long after we first met, that she toyed with men and threw them out, tossed them aside. Her perpetrator (a term you'll understand better when you understand ego states better) turns on whomever she is in a romantic relationship with. If it's a triangle, like ours, her perpetrator focused on him until he was out of the picture. Within days of her divorce, the perpetrator's focus turned on me. She told me the 'part time was working well for her', that she 'couldn't see being full time with anyone'; one day she wanted me to move in with her; a week later, sometimes sooner, she couldn't imagine us moving in together. She toyed with my feelings, and as my therapist asked towards the end of the first session: You do know you're being abused, right?

Those are signs of a fragmented, split personality. You think it's going to get better, but it will NOT get better until the borderline gets into therapy and works on integrating the splits. Don't fool yourself that they can do it on their own -- they cannot. (Yes, maybe a few can, but it's safer to assume they can't -- get help). But until they want to get the help, until they choose to get the help, it's not going to get better. YOU need to focus on YOU, and work to understand why you're with this person, and why you stay. Make decisions based on that.

My life now is so much better. I do miss her, but the her I miss is one split off part of her personality; the other one or ones I don't miss. That's the problem -- because of the split personality, you're actually with multiple people (well, that's a bit of exaggeration -- at the very extreme, you do get Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), which is true multiple personalities without any awareness or memory of the others; borderlines do have ego states that are more separate and disparate than you'd want, but they aren't multiple personalities). I was with a woman, M, where part of her (one or more ego states) loved me and was lovable, and other ego states were mean and nasty. Again, not her fault that this happened -- these splits occurred in childhood -- she was emotionally and physically abused as a toddler. But that doesn't excuse or fix anything. If she'd been amenable to therapy or even was ok discussing what was going on, I'd have given it more time.

Last day I was over she was upset, asked me to stop by -- said she was miserable, that her ex was happy (she was upset about that too), that she didn't want to date, that she was tired of waiting for me, etc. etc. She blamed all of her misery on me and others. She took zero responsibility for her own behaviors. She demanded that I change, that she was fine the way she was. I looked at the future and I didn't see this getting any better.

While I did make progress on my own, this therapist is great. I decided to give it a few months to see if it was worth continuing -- it's the best money I've ever spent (and I'm paying out of pocket). To put it simply, the split off parts of myself are integrating. It's frankly amazing, and I feel great.

Good luck!