I'm having difficulty as we approach the end

[LightAfterTunnel]

Hi all,

I'm not sure that this is the correct thread for my post so it can be moved if necessary. Though I believe more people here might know my back story and so I don't have to recount our history.

So my lawyer and I have planned everything so that if my BPDw does not want to discuss/consent to a divorce (which obviously is not and will not happen) that we will be in front of a judge for a hearing roughly in the middle of June. Timed so that our children will have just finished school. Also, I have contacted a new therapist, on advice from my T, to see me and my wife. This is something my BPDw has wanted so that we can "save our marriage". My conditions to seeing the new T together had been that it is not to salvage our marriage or work on us but rather to work on communication between the two of us. Specifically, that we discuss, or try to discuss at least, the issues of most concern such as our 3 children and not put them in the middle. My T thought it would be good to have these discussions all out in front of a professional so that they are aware of her inflexibility on the situation, as well as keeping an eye on her and any worrisome emotions/expressions that may come out as things progress. My BPDw would not agree to see the T with my conditions until recently but now we are set to begin in one week.

Furthermore my lawyer and T both have been wanting me to be as open as possible with BPDw about the divorce. In the past, the subject of divorce always strikes fear of abandonment issues and usually ends in angry eruptions rather than any actual discussion of the issues at hand, so over the last 6 months I've avoided it. However, on the advice of my T and lawyer, I have been very calm and directly open with BPDw over the last 6 weeks or so regarding my feelings and wants.

Over the last 3 weeks, my BPDw has been trying harder than I have ever seen in 11 yrs of marriage. I have been trying to brush it off as her playing good to get me back as she has done countless times in the past. But strangely enough we have had a handful of very open discussions recently about what she is going through. We have discussed openly her incorrectly projected anger, non coherent thinking at times, and extremely inappropriate extinction outbursts. She has openly told me (a little) about what she and her T are working on regarding CBT. We have openly talked about her past DBT course in 2006 for BPD. She has been openly apologizing to me for many past events, something that never ever happened!

I am astounded and somewhat shocked by how much she is aware of herself and of how much she is trying to make us work.

However, I am too experienced now and I know that sooner or later she will revert back to having troubled episodes. As all of us, non or otherwise, we go through funks. But I know her funks will be very bad at times. And I just can't handle them anymore or watch my kids learn from them.

So I'm writing all of you all this because I'm realizing that maybe, just maybe, my BPDw has finally hit the point at which she is willing to be vulnerable, willing to delve into herself, willing to try... .and it is me that is not wanting to be there for her. All of this is making my emotions on leaving her very difficult. I'm wavering, which I haven't done in a long time. I don't know if I should try to engage her with more open discussions.

Is her "awakening" or opening up normal as divorce arrives? Did any of you go through similar experiences?

Your advice and comments are much appreciated.

Happy Easter to all!

LAT

T

[livednlearned]

I am too experienced now and I know that sooner or later she will revert back to having troubled episodes.

It takes a lot of strength to have strong boundaries, something many people here struggled with in their BPD marriages, me included.

Your wife's ability to regulate her emotions probably depends greatly on who is in her immediate environment, and how well they assert boundaries.

You asserted a strong boundary and she is responding well to it.

That has been my experience with my SO's daughter, who is likely BPD. I imagine she has such a weak sense of self that boundaries feel strange and elusive, even as she craves them.

If she is no one inside, then how would she know what is her and what is me? It falls to me to create the boundaries she craves, and in doing so, she seems to feel secure.  

For me to have good boundaries, my self-care needs to be gold standard. I come first, period. Then I have the strength and piece of mind to help someone who is high needs. Setting and enforcing limits is hard work when you're doing it for both of you.

And I just can't handle them anymore or watch my kids learn from them.

This suggests that your first to-do item is to practice self-care. You may find that your strength increases as she begins to focus on her instead of you. That could give you some momentum to practice more self-care. What are you doing for yourself right now?

Can you give yourself some time before you make any decisions?

About her... .

DBT is typically a very intensive treatment, sometimes with longer term inpatient stays. Is that what she is considering?

What kind of commitment would you need to see? You are at a point where you want to see action, not words. You are also exhausted and worn down, which is not an easy place to be for supporting someone with BPD.

Is there a halfway point between marriage and divorce that you are considering?

[juju2]

Hi L

good job reaching out !

Would this be your first divorce?
Haven't read your other posts.

I have experience around divorce, married to a workaholic/rageaholic for 17 yrs, we have 2 kids, they were 4 and 9, when the divorce was final.

It was a huge blow to our children.  My former spouse was in a funk for 3-4 years, actually I think everything got worse for all of us after the divorce.  Unfortunately, no one I talked to mentioned that after divorce things can get worse... .  especially for the kids.

I also am separated for 1 yr, from DxBPD, untreated, we lived together 10 years.  We are trying different things, meeting up, talking on the phone, to see what is possible for us.  Just last week he apologized to me, over the house being a mess, our entire r/s he would blame me.  He said he now realizes it wasn't my fault...
.!  Miracle.  I thought I never would hear any apologies... .  so i can relate to your wife getting better... .
Also, I have been working on me: going to al anon, working the 12 steps, volunteering in my community, lost 50 lbs, am taking two classes at community college, got a new job, upped my wardrobe, try to spend social time around positive people, a lot of changes for me;he is supportive of these changes... .  it took me a while to get into motion around my life---i always blamed him, that my life was messed up because of the things that happened in our r/s.  I didnt understand it is a mental illness.  That was then...

I see now that our problems, be it me not having tools, patience, good attitude, around BPD,
And him, not appreciating me, and other stuff.

I read the 2nd book of Divorce Busters, it's called Divorce Remedy.  Good stuff on r/s, what one person can do.

Guess because i saw the fallout from divorce, am trying really hard to see what works.  Every day is a new day.  When i get honest about my issues, that creates a space for me to be open w my s.o.

If i keep on open mind, things can change.

best,

j

[ForeverDad]

Your concern that she may be behaving better, less obstructive, etc is valid.  You set a boundary... .Things are so bad that divorce is the only solution.  She's only now, with no other choice, seeking a way to keep you.  And yes, the zillion dollar question is whether she will follow through.  I've seen it mentioned here that unless she is doing it for herself, changing her entire worldview and perceptions, then it may not last.  While anyone in therapy will have relapses, the question is whether they are only temporary.  Will she get back on the wagon?  Time will tell.

However, you've suffered with this for years.  You as an adult have a right to say No More.  You also have concerns for your children.  You want to establish a home for the children free from rants, raging, blaming, demands, ultimatums and manipulation.  You have reason to express your concerns during the negotiations.  If she will truly negotiate.

[LightAfterTunnel]

Hi all,

Thanks for all your replies as always. Hearing your words really helps me reflect on everything and better come to a conclusion. Once again it has worked. Thank you.

I tried to respond to your points below:

This suggests that your first to-do item is to practice self-care. You may find that your strength increases as she begins to focus on her instead of you. That could give you some momentum to practice more self-care. What are you doing for yourself right now?

As for self-care, I feel like much of my current happiness and mindfulness has come from it. I have found a rhythm of things I enjoy doing outside of my family and work responsibilities. I play with my children as much as possible. I go to therapy regularly and practice breathing exercises frequently.

Can you give yourself some time before you make any decisions?

Well... .I can always postpone the strategy that me and my lawyer have thought out. However, I definitely have a fear of this since in the past I was so poor at holding boundaries. In reality, it would mean holding off for another year the process if things were not to progress for us because I would try to time it again to take place when my children are not in school.

This is most likely the safest approach to take if I see our communication and her willingness to open up continues, especially in front of the new T beginning next week.

DBT is typically a very intensive treatment, sometimes with longer term inpatient stays. Is that what she is considering?

She took a DBT course in 2006 that lasted 3 months and met weekly or twice a week. It seemed to me to be quite intensive. No, she is not considering going back to do another one. Currently, she has a T who has been working with her using CBT techniques. Regarding the past DBT course, recently in our conversations she has stated that she was a very different person back then and has made significant progress from that point in her life. In response to her, I stated that I don't doubt she is much different and for the better, however that many of her attitudes/reactions I have been worried about in our r/s are still pertinent to what she was in therapy for and that she needs to continue to practice what she had learned or her tendencies will rear their ugly heads. This is where she has been openly asking me to stay and help her work on it in therapy now.

What kind of commitment would you need to see? You are at a point where you want to see action, not words. You are also exhausted and worn down, which is not an easy place to be for supporting someone with BPD.

Is there a halfway point between marriage and divorce that you are considering?

Well, this is exactly the point... .what do I need to see? I need to see her open up and be vulnerable with me so we can approach the issues as a team. There needs to be action and not just words as you say.

As for a halfway point, I haven't thought of one and I honestly don't know what one would look like. What do you mean?

Would this be your first divorce?

... .Unfortunately, no one I talked to mentioned that after divorce things can get worse... .  especially for the kids.

Yes, this would be my first divorce.

And yes I do worry that the divorce in itself will bring its own set of problems. Up until recently, my wife has not been very forthcoming on her issues and openly was lying in front of the T we saw together last year. I have spoken to her about this recently as well and I have asked her how can I trust her? She has told me that she was scared and felt that I wasn't taking responsibility for my part in the issues. It's only a beginning to discuss openly but she is finally admitting to her part in it. However, I now feel that if she is willing to be open that we could more appropriately delve into so many discussions that have needed to take place and haven't. If we can make progress then I know that no matter what our children have seen thus far in our dysfunctional r/s that they will see us working it out. And if we can demonstrate this to them then this will also be a huge benefit. But that is a lot to hope for given the reality thus far.

While anyone in therapy will have relapses, the question is whether they are only temporary.  Will she get back on the wagon?  Time will tell.

You have reason to express your concerns during the negotiations.  If she will truly negotiate.

Exactly. I guess only giving it another try together in front of a T and giving it time will tell.

I plan on speaking to the T in front of my wife as openly and honestly and with empathy as possible. I guess it will be up to her to engage and grow. And another chance for myself as well... .

[ForeverDad]

Well... .I can always postpone the strategy that me and my lawyer have thought out. However, I definitely have a fear of this since in the past I was so poor at holding boundaries. In reality, it would mean holding off for another year the process if things were not to progress for us because I would try to time it again to take place when my children are not in school... .

Exactly. I guess only giving it another try together in front of a T and giving it time will tell.

If you have serious concerns about her not making (sufficient) progress, based on past slow progress, then beware of approaching this as "trying again".  Otherwise, she is almost surely going to hold out that carrot of "this time it will work".  And you will find yet another year gone by.

Perhaps one strategy or perspective for the counseling sessions is to remark that if you divorce then there's always the possibility that once she has recovered (sufficiently) you could then ponder whether to remarry.  Strategy.

Another factor to ponder:

One of our most prolific posters some 5-10 years ago was JoannaK.  In a few of her posts she made an observation... .  She wrote that if persons who work to attain some recovery then they would not be the same persons as before and there was a real possibility the relationship would not survive, one or both had changed that much.

[LightAfterTunnel]

Thanks ForeverDad.

The strategy you suggested is a nice option to have in pocket in the therapy session.

Likewise, the JoannaK quote-to-ponder you posted is quite on target as to some concerns I have been crunching internally. Specifically, after many years of a dysfunctional r/s and after 4 years of individual therapy myself, I realize that I have changed drastically and this has made me reflect on what I want in a r/s as my new self. My wife, maybe somewhat at a slower pace, and maybe with more difficulty due to BPD, will likewise have a similar growth and change in her wants.

Will we both want and search similar things  assuming we are able to even get through this therapy stage?

I don’t know.

[livednlearned]

From earlier posts, I know you have some concerns about how your daughter is doing.

I would never say that I divorced my ex because of my son, but it was my concerns about then S9's well-being (and frankly, mental health) that motivated me to divorce. I saw no viable way to get our son the support he clearly needed if I stayed married. For one, he needed a mental health break from his dad, just to get his cortisol levels back somewhere manageable. He had a lot of anxiety, including tics, and has some sensory defensiveness that made him particularly susceptible to environmental stimuli. My ex started a campaign to label all therapists and doctors as kooks, and anytime someone became involved in S9's care, there was n/BPDx tearing it all down.

At the end of the day, I did not have the strength nor the capacity to care for n/BPDx without seriously harming S9, not to mention my own mental health issues activated by the stress of our marriage.

I held out some hope that my ex would get better when I left. My T said that leaving might not be good for him, but staying was clearly too triggering for someone so reactive.

There is a word, I think it's called satisficing, where you make a decision based not on having all the information, but on having just enough. It's hard to make decisions under those conditions, but sometimes that is the best any of us will ever have in these hard relationships.

I'm sorry it's so hard, and I imagine this must be tugging at your heart strings. I wish you lots of peace and calm while you figure out how best to move forward.

You're not alone