Can BPD/npd appear normal alot of the time?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Only my first experience with a cluster b female but for just over a year she was really lovey like txting all time and phone calls to and from work. Sure we had our little fights Coz she is moody and selfish but for a good year she was always lovey and telling me the same old how she felt and this is real connection, soul mates crap. But then the moment she got first opportunity and had to go away for work with another work colleague she cheats (I find out later) and came back a completely different person like a light switch was turned off. Over the final two months from that day I never got told I love u or miss u anymore, she was almost nornal for couple weeks and then went downhill rapidly.

Can people with cluster b appear or fake to be fairly normal most of the time? Do BPD become more narcissist when they are done with you Coz I saw whole other side to her when she was getting ready to flick me. She is 35 but to me seems like her life goin more and more downhill. I know when she was in her 20s she hit her ex bf once. I never saw that kinda rage.

[Gunit1]

Only my first experience with a cluster b female but for just over a year she was really lovey like txting all time and phone calls to and from work. Sure we had our little fights Coz she is moody and selfish but for a good year she was always lovey and telling me the same old how she felt and this is real connection, soul mates crap. But then the moment she got first opportunity and had to go away for work with another work colleague she cheats (I find out later) and came back a completely different person like a light switch was turned off. Over the final two months from that day I never got told I love u or miss u anymore, she was almost nornal for couple weeks and then went downhill rapidly.

Can people with cluster b appear or fake to be fairly normal most of the time? Do BPD become more narcissist when they are done with you Coz I saw whole other side to her when she was getting ready to flick me. She is 35 but to me seems like her life goin more and more downhill. I know when she was in her 20s she hit her ex bf once. I never saw that kinda rage.

[lighthouse9]

Hey Gunit,

These are excellent questions and ones I find myself asking from time to time. What happened to the sweet woman I was married to who was so loving? Similar to yours, mine cheated and was all of a sudden like a completely different person. I was always left asking who was the real person, the woman I married or the woman in front of me?

I had the benefit of actually being able to talk to her about some of this and she relayed to me how much she lacked a sense of self and felt empty inside. For her (and for many with BPD) it's extremely painful and she went into a total self-protect mode to avoid feeling any of the emotional weight of the things she had done to tank our marriage (and almost her career in the process). So which one was the real her? Probably none of the above, because she really didn't have a sense of a "real" her. The woman I was with was as real as the woman who left me. And, the woman I was with was pretty different than the woman she was with her ex before me. I know it was exhausting for her as much as it was painful for me.

As far as your question about whether they become narcissistic or not, that depends I guess. Some folks with BPD show more narcissistic qualities when devaluing and discarding. Also though, when switching from idealization to devaluation, a person acting selfishly can feel like such an extreme from the person we knew before. In a healthier relationship, a level of selfishness would be a good thing. I know my wife mentioned feeling like she HAD to do certain things for herself otherwise she felt like she would lose herself completely. Unfortunately, these things were always impulsive and destructive, especially to our relationship.

From what I understand, they feel threatened a lot of the time and it's really tough to convince them that they're safe or that you're not a threat.

I know for me, the sudden shift in personality was really disorienting and made me question everything. How are you doing Gunit? Being cheated on is pretty awful. How are you coping?

[Foursome]

They are absolute masters of manipulation.

They are normal at first because you are.  They mirror you.  Then once you get close bam.

That narcissism you see now it them painting you black.

They look at things as one of two ways.  Either all good or all bad.

Its their defense mechanism built in to shield themselves from the sheer terror of being abandoned.

As bad as you feel right now trust me they feel that way and worse and it will never end.

[Gunit1]

Hey Gunit,

These are excellent questions and ones I find myself asking from time to time. What happened to the sweet woman I was married to who was so loving? Similar to yours, mine cheated and was all of a sudden like a completely different person. I was always left asking who was the real person, the woman I married or the woman in front of me?

I had the benefit of actually being able to talk to her about some of this and she relayed to me how much she lacked a sense of self and felt empty inside. For her (and for many with BPD) it's extremely painful and she went into a total self-protect mode to avoid feeling any of the emotional weight of the things she had done to tank our marriage (and almost her career in the process). So which one was the real her? Probably none of the above, because she really didn't have a sense of a "real" her. The woman I was with was as real as the woman who left me. And, the woman I was with was pretty different than the woman she was with her ex before me. I know it was exhausting for her as much as it was painful for me.

As far as your question about whether they become narcissistic or not, that depends I guess. Some folks with BPD show more narcissistic qualities when devaluing and discarding. Also though, when switching from idealization to devaluation, a person acting selfishly can feel like such an extreme from the person we knew before. In a healthier relationship, a level of selfishness would be a good thing. I know my wife mentioned feeling like she HAD to do certain things for herself otherwise she felt like she would lose herself completely. Unfortunately, these things were always impulsive and destructive, especially to our relationship.

From what I understand, they feel threatened a lot of the time and it's really tough to convince them that they're safe or that you're not a threat.

I know for me, the sudden shift in personality was really disorienting and made me question everything. How are you doing Gunit? Being cheated on is pretty awful. How are you coping?

How long were u together? Everything I read they don't seem to last ages but she was with guy before me for 11 years. Cheating was involved. Me only year and half before cheating and leaving for man with kids. Mine would never told me that stuff like your ex did. She became so evil and deceitful. Blamed me for everything by then end and said I was abusive all becomes I was losing my mind at the lies and knew she was cheating so we did fight alot by then. That's not acceptable though because how dare I be annoyed she's lying and cheating tho she lied all way till the end and cut me off.

I am alot better these days but it's hard Coz she works around here and tells ppl 5 months in about new rel and how it's all going really well. Of course they are soul mates... Once again that's everything I got told too.

[Gunit1]

They are absolute masters of manipulation.

They are normal at first because you are.  They mirror you.  Then once you get close bam.

That narcissism you see now it them painting you black.

They look at things as one of two ways.  Either all good or all bad.

Its their defense mechanism built in to shield themselves from the sheer terror of being abandoned.

As bad as you feel right now trust me they feel that way and worse and it will never end.

Only thing don't understand they are in decent relationship and telling u how got such a deep connection and chemistry and love u but then first chance they get they cheat and then almost like they are done with you instantly. Then go off and can have even longer relationship with someone else? This women is 35 and she's always seemed to like older men. I am 5 years younger then her.

[once removed]

people with BPD struggle with regulating emotions. a dysregulated state is really the only thing i would regard as someone with the disorder generally appearing "abnormal".

so short answer, yes. people with BPD or traits (BPD is a cluster of personality traits) appear as normal as anyone else most of the time.

Only thing don't understand they are in decent relationship and telling u how got such a deep connection and chemistry and love u but then first chance they get they cheat and then almost like they are done with you instantly.

people with BPD overstate their emotions and over invest in them. they are dreamers, and they are also fickle.

from our article on Surviving a Breakup with someone with BPD:

6) Clinging to the words that were said

We often cling to the positive words and promises that were voiced and ignore or minimize the negative actions. “But she said she would love me forever”. Many wonderful and expressive things may have been said during the course of the relationship, but people suffering with BPD traits are dreamers, they can be fickle, and they over-express emotions like young children – often with little thought for long term implications. You must let go of the words. It may break your heart to do so. But the fact is, the actions - all of them - are the truth.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality

[Gunit1]

people with BPD struggle with regulating emotions. a dysregulated state is really the only thing i would regard as someone with the disorder generally appearing "abnormal".

so short answer, yes. people with BPD or traits (BPD is a cluster of personality traits) appear as normal as anyone else most of the time.

people with BPD overstate their emotions and over invest in them. they are dreamers, and they are also fickle.

from our article on Surviving a Breakup with someone with BPD:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality

She is not diagnosed. I just feel what I went through was so different to any other break up and things she did are not normal. And know everyone acts diff even with a disorder and have diff traits but doing so much reading she fits bill for alot of the cluster b. She didn't self harm or anything. Is pathological liar though. Cheated with multi men at same time. Says same thing to new guy as she did to me.

So if their actions are the truth then she must really want to be with this new guy... For now.

Thing with us was I was jsut her affair and I know it was bad but god she was great at lying and manipulating me into thinking what we had was real and that she had massive struggles in her current relationship. Then she randomly starting cheating with a 3rd guy and is now with him only. Or much as I know. One week I'm the love of her life. The next I wasn't told I love u anymore and within weeks she became a stranger. Soon as I got angry about lies and bs she used that to say I was the abusive one, jealous, crazy and I was manipulative... Alot of projection. I can't see it being normal someone sayinf they love 2 people and then go off with a 3rd.

[Cromwell]

They are absolute masters of manipulation.

They are normal at first because you are.  They mirror you.  Then once you get close bam.

That narcissism you see now it them painting you black.

They look at things as one of two ways.  Either all good or all bad.

Its their defense mechanism built in to shield themselves from the sheer terror of being abandoned.

As bad as you feel right now trust me they feel that way and worse and it will never end.

exactly this.

my ex was a master plagiarist. she could emulate anyone and play it back when she needed to appear normal.

one of the biggest dangers of myself thinking during the initial stages that "oh, what, BPD? i dunno what that is, cant be much you seem perfectly normal to me"

[Gunit1]

Mine left everything behind for this old looking guy but he's a psychologist... Think maybe they feel safer with someone who has that background? Doesn't practice it but I'm sure prob fed her heap crap and Coz of title on his work and fact she is gullible she prob believes every work.

Anyone tell me or not if all BPDs have such massive rage? I saw angry side to mine but never a outright rage session. She could have fight with me then go and have s*x... Maybe she's more sociopath. Do BPD have that same empty stare? I got that few times over 15 months.

[once removed]

Anyone tell me or not if all BPDs have such massive rage?

Gunit1, there is no group of people that all behave the same way. if you read "all pwBPD do this", id encourage you to filter it. BPD is a spectrum disorder, ranging from very low to very high. it has over 300 different combinations. each person is unique.

having said that, "disproportionate anger" is a diagnostic criteria, for a disorder that at its core, is about difficulty regulating emotions. so "rage" is certainly a common theme in many (not all) of our stories. it should also be taken with a grain of salt. what defines "raging"? is it shouting or yelling? is it storming off? is it physical abuse?

additionally, yes, there are many with BPD traits that tend to project their anger inward rather than outward. i dated a gal with BPD traits who was the furthest thing from a "rager", though definitely had quite a storm brewing inside. one of my best and closest friends has BPD traits, same thing. incidentally, shes never broken a heart.

She could have fight with me then go and have s*x... Maybe she's more sociopath.

not likely. most of our exes on this board are not even clinically BPD, but have traits, even significant traits, and are very difficult people, but relatively speaking, are low on the spectrum of BPD. read the Son or Daughter board, youll get the idea.

i think what you are touching on is that people with BPD traits have dysfunctional coping mechanisms, and sex is often one of them, for a variety of reasons. a lot of people in general do this, have sex after a fight. it can even be quite healthy.

[Skip]

They are absolute masters of manipulation.

Foursome, I can see why you would say this. I know one thing I've learned is not to assume how we feel (e.g., manipulated) is actually what is going on in the mind of the other party.

Marsha Linehan once pointed out that if pwBPD were manipulators, they are really bad at it (meaning they have a lot of negative drama and problems in life). Master manipulators are more successful and more stealthy.

If there is a common characteristic to BPD decision making is that it is impulsive and it lacks executive function (they don't think of the longer term ramifications of their actions).

In Gunit1's case, I'm not sure I see a manipulation. She went on a business trip with a man with power/position who was likely in a vulnerable/needy state (recently divorced and years of being cold shouldered in a dying marriage) and "bam". He has someone idealizing him and giving him "worth" that he has craved for years. He in turn is adoring this and her attention. She rises to his success in life by affiliating with him and is adored.

Impulsive. Little thought for the future and the ramifications for Gunit1 or kids or... .

Can people with cluster b appear or fake to be fairly normal most of the time? Do BPD become more narcissist when they are done with you Coz I saw whole other side to her when she was getting ready to flick me. She is 35 but to me seems like her life goin more and more downhill. I know when she was in her 20s she hit her ex bf once. I never saw that kinda rage.

BPD or NPD are not behavior labels, they are labels of deep rooted thinking patterns that trace back to childhood.  A person with either affliction operates in this pattern their whole life. Both BPD and NPD "thinking" tends not to be noticeable until things break down.

I think, from a practical point and even thought 45% of people with BPD have NPD characteristics, I'd focus on the predominate traits because that will generally help you understand better what type of person you had in your life.

NPD people are self centered but generally in control, short fuse.  BPD people are self centered, emotional, impulsive. When communicating with a PwNPD, their ego is really important. When communicating with a PwBPD, their emotions are really important.

[Gunit1]

  once removed

What about fact that she said when cheating on her bf she doesn't feel guilty, she justifys it, she showed no remorse to the next one, pathological liar, shifts blame, cunning and deceitful and runs off like nothing even happened and calling next one her soul mate... Sounds little on side of sociopath as well.

[Gunit1]

  Skip

However in my situation I was already the affair partner being manipulated to stay around. Always been told lies and false stuff that she may leave the relationship and course this all came after heavy love bombs for ages way more then ever have from girl before and get me to love her and then say all this. Said deep connection, love of her life, soul mates, jealous, made sure didjt get with other girls, while lying about what she was doing, said felt no guilt for cheating and always justified it, she had weird emotional up and down feelings and also angry side, double standards, self centered very much! Why had fights, she was really weird when she drank which was often like alcohol even small amounts effected her massively.

This was for 15 months, rigjt after coming back from a trip she had work trip and boom first night cheats again, now she is in space of cheating on bf and her double life affair partner. Within weeks she devaluing both but lying about it and where she is, within 5 weeks she's discarded both. Meanwhile got called the abusive one and jealous, possessive, crazy ect and blamed for everything went wrong in her life within that time...

This sound like a BPD/npd or cluster b thing or just a total piece of crap of a human? I kmow my part in affair was wrong and felt bad, in times at start I did say it's fine we will stop as u have bf ect, I wanna find someone but then I'm sucked back into lies and once loved her or thought she loved me it's so hard to walk away when u feel this overpowering connection that u 'think' is real but turns out they can throw u away like u were nothing and delete u from their life just like that after all the many many talks of how they will always love u and only ever loved couple ppl in their 35 years of life and doesn't think ever get past wanting the great s*x. Oh no wait found new soul mate cya later.

Above can't all be from a healthy individual right? Has to me more to it spesh if even ex bf of 11 years said she was moody, lying, manipulative person with sociopathic tendencies.

[Gunit1]

Anyone think normal person can do that?

[once removed]

What about fact that she said when cheating on her bf she doesn't feel guilty, she justifys it, she showed no remorse to the next one, pathological liar, shifts blame, cunning and deceitful and runs off like nothing even happened and calling next one her soul mate... Sounds little on side of sociopath as well.

its hard to answer without specifics, but it doesnt sound sociopathic. sociopaths have major trouble with the law, and society in general. they arent just "relationship jerks". it does sound BPDish.

one possibility is that she wanted to shock you a little. i had a friend who told me things like that about her romantic life. she felt bad. she had shame. she wanted to shock me.

let me flip this around a little:

I kmow my part in affair was wrong and felt bad

but you did it anyway, right? you justified it. im not judging here, im highlighting that your perspective about her may be off and that if you put yourself in her shoes, it can be easier to see. her reasons were probably very similar to yours.

Skip has a great analogy about three legged stools and affairs. there are complex reasons why both parties gravitate toward them. BPD aside, they often end in the way you describe.

[pbnjsandwich]

Only my first experience with a cluster b female but for just over a year she was really lovey like txting all time and phone calls to and from work. Sure we had our little fights Coz she is moody and selfish but for a good year she was always lovey and telling me the same old how she felt and this is real connection, soul mates crap. But then the moment she got first opportunity and had to go away for work with another work colleague she cheats (I find out later) and came back a completely different person like a light switch was turned off. Over the final two months from that day I never got told I love u or miss u anymore, she was almost nornal for couple weeks and then went downhill rapidly.

Can people with cluster b appear or fake to be fairly normal most of the time? Do BPD become more narcissist when they are done with you Coz I saw whole other side to her when she was getting ready to flick me. She is 35 but to me seems like her life goin more and more downhill. I know when she was in her 20s she hit her ex bf once. I never saw that kinda rage.

People with BPD can turn off and on their behavior depending on who they are with and the circumstances that they are in. They use their abilities to manipulate NOT to hurt you, but to protect themselves. It will be up to you to either learn how to navigate through this relationship by setting boundaries and limits. Physical abuse and verbal abuse should never be tolerated.

[Gunit1]

its hard to answer without specifics, but it doesnt sound sociopathic. sociopaths have major trouble with the law, and society in general. they arent just "relationship jerks". it does sound BPDish.

one possibility is that she wanted to shock you a little. i had a friend who told me things like that about her romantic life. she felt bad. she had shame. she wanted to shock me.

let me flip this around a little:

but you did it anyway, right? you justified it. im not judging here, im highlighting that your perspective about her may be off and that if you put yourself in her shoes, it can be easier to see. her reasons were probably very similar to yours.

Skip has a great analogy about three legged stools and affairs. there are complex reasons why both parties gravitate toward them. BPD aside, they often end in the way you describe.

Not all psychopaths/sociopaths have trouble with the law. Some aren't as high up on the spectrum and just have no real feelings towards things.

She may have but this is like her 3rd affair that I know have once all lies come undone so there is alot to her background.
Saying the same thing to each guy how you are soul mates and have deep connection sounds a bit weird and immature to me. I fell for it yes but now see just a junk word she throws around. She lies about big and little things. She can change her whole personality.

At the start mm yes and no. Like said I said best we stop but this was when I didjt feel under a love spell yet. Then as I told her to stop playing game and just leave me alone she wrote that she is prob breaking up with her bf. She wanted to talk to a therapist... .This never happened even tho she said it did. 2 weeks go by after so much up and down and she decided to stay with bf so I said cya then. She comes to work dresses sexy as she can and says this is really hard can we talk and then says she's still confused and sucks me back in.

I. Kmow played my part but this why feel this chick has cluster b disorder as she's so suductive and addictive once she got me to fall in love with all the bs I just kept thinking hang in there she will leave him soon. As time went on I knew wasn't happy overall but I couldn't let it go as became so relient on her in a way.

[Gunit1]

People with BPD can turn off and on their behavior depending on who they are with and the circumstances that they are in. They use their abilities to manipulate NOT to hurt you, but to protect themselves. It will be up to you to either learn how to navigate through this relationship by setting boundaries and limits. Physical abuse and verbal abuse should never be tolerated.

They can? Well that's good to know as for most part she was normal. It may be to manipulate but they have to know end result will hurt u. But to cheat and lie then blame you for everything went wrong and make u out to be the abusive one they need protection from is just crazy.

Another thing she does after of course telling u how much she loves you and this is special is once replaced you she pretty well tells u we were wrong and just a result of a difficult time in her life... .So what's the excuse for next affair Coz told someone else was result of difficult time haha. Are they just full of excuses when caught.

[Gunit1]

They can? Well that's good to know as for most part she was normal. It may be to manipulate but they have to know end result will hurt u. But to cheat and lie then blame you for everything went wrong and make u out to be the abusive one they need protection from is just crazy.

Another thing she does after of course telling u how much she loves you and this is special is once replaced you she pretty well tells u we were wrong and just a result of a difficult time in her life... .So what's the excuse for next affair Coz told someone else was result of difficult time haha. Are they just full of excuses when caught.

Whats amazing is also got told another story that her first love cheated on her so she knows what feels like ect ect however she is biggest cheater I've met. I don't think this story was true I think from all lies I could say like most do they are telling u part of a true story with Web lies around it so was prob more she cheated on him.

[CryWolf]

Gunit1, there is no group of people that all behave the same way. if you read "all pwBPD do this", id encourage you to filter it. BPD is a spectrum disorder, ranging from very low to very high. it has over 300 different combinations. each person is unique.

having said that, "disproportionate anger" is a diagnostic criteria, for a disorder that at its core, is about difficulty regulating emotions. so "rage" is certainly a common theme in many (not all) of our stories. it should also be taken with a grain of salt. what defines "raging"? is it shouting or yelling? is it storming off? is it physical abuse?

additionally, yes, there are many with BPD traits that tend to project their anger inward rather than outward. i dated a gal with BPD traits who was the furthest thing from a "rager", though definitely had quite a storm brewing inside. one of my best and closest friends has BPD traits, same thing. incidentally, shes never broken a heart.

not likely. most of our exes on this board are not even clinically BPD, but have traits, even significant traits, and are very difficult people, but relatively speaking, are low on the spectrum of BPD. read the Son or Daughter board, youll get the idea.

i think what you are touching on is that people with BPD traits have dysfunctional coping mechanisms, and sex is often one of them, for a variety of reasons. a lot of people in general do this, have sex after a fight. it can even be quite healthy.

Id like to echo Once removed and say that not every person with BPD is the same. Not everyone manipulates, or cheats or is out to get you. Angry sex is okay, and its normal. Couples do this with or without BPD.

My ex bottled her emotions. She cant hurt a soul, but once something really triggers her, she would blow up. They all are not evil. My ex loved to donate to charities, great with kids and cares so much about adolescent development, etc.

[Gunit1]

Id like to echo Once removed and say that not every person with BPD is the same. Not everyone manipulates, or cheats or is out to get you. Angry sex is okay, and its normal. Couples do this with or without BPD.

My ex bottled her emotions. She cant hurt a soul, but once something really triggers her, she would blow up. They all are not evil. My ex loved to donate to charities, great with kids and cares so much about adolescent development, etc.

I def don't think they all evil or the same but mine showed evil side I don't think she was just BPD tho. She does lie in everyday life, big or small, 2 faced to all! Double standard, cheater, projection, blames everyone for her faults and will belittle u in subtle ways. Everything is about her and when she wants to do it or give u the time. She had a great side sure and most nasty stuff was done behind my back but then very clear once she was replacing me.

[Gunit1]

Also her ex before me also thought she was great person just bit of liar and moody chick however he also did want to ignore bigger picture and signs and 11 years later finds out she cheated on him with small and long affairs only to be left when she found suitable guy as next and never ending soul mate.
So they can sometimes appear loving and great but u dunno what's going on behind your back. Sure some are actually loving just very emotional and make mistakes.
Mine has alot of traits of narcissism as well so maybe that mix makes it worse. Shows no remorse or guilt.

[icky]

I think that while we are in the early stages of coming to terms with the BPD relationship, it can definitely *feel* like what our BPDx did was sociopathic, evil, sadistic, intentional, cruel, etc.

Until we have understood BPD - how it affects people and how it drives their behaviour - until we have learned to see those patterns and to realise that they were not "about us" - until we can recognise those patterns, their behaviour to us can seem very random and cruel.

I think it's important to acknowledge that, yes, that's what it *feels* like. It's awful.

At the same time, try and keep part of your brain focused on the factual information that BPD is a disorder and that it leads to dysfunctional behaviour that can be hurtful.

It's a balancing act, allowing yourself to feel the feelings of "this was random and cruel" and not getting lost in them.

If your BPDx had other traits like NPD, then it's okay to explore that.

Again, *try* and explore this rationally and calmly, without getting too lost in the feelings of being hurt and "someone did really awful stuff to me".

I think for *healing*, both sides of this balancing act are necessary. Feeling and voicing the pain but also focusing on rational explanations of human behaviour.

[Gunit1]

I think that while we are in the early stages of coming to terms with the BPD relationship, it can definitely *feel* like what our BPDx did was sociopathic, evil, sadistic, intentional, cruel, etc.

Until we have understood BPD - how it affects people and how it drives their behaviour - until we have learned to see those patterns and to realise that they were not "about us" - until we can recognise those patterns, their behaviour to us can seem very random and cruel.

I think it's important to acknowledge that, yes, that's what it *feels* like. It's awful.

At the same time, try and keep part of your brain focused on the factual information that BPD is a disorder and that it leads to dysfunctional behaviour that can be hurtful.

It's a balancing act, allowing yourself to feel the feelings of "this was random and cruel" and not getting lost in them.

If your BPDx had other traits like NPD, then it's okay to explore that.

Again, *try* and explore this rationally and calmly, without getting too lost in the feelings of being hurt and "someone did really awful stuff to me".

I think for *healing*, both sides of this balancing act are necessary. Feeling and voicing the pain but also focusing on rational explanations of human behaviour.

I guess we will never really fully understand their behaviour because one cluster b is going to act or do things differently to the next one, some cheat some don't. Why they do what they do who will really know. Mine is pathological liar so getting anything that might be truth would be hard

[icky]

Yeah, it's really difficult. I think we can help each other look for the clues here tho.

Pathological lying must be a disturbing thing to experience. I don't think I experienced it with my BPDx, tho I am not sure! I know he twisted the truth around a lot, to suit his interpretation, but to be honest, I don't know how much he lied about. I don't even know if I want to find out.

Two things spring to mind. You see a lot of people here posting that for pwBPD, "feelings = facts". And because feelings change (even radically) like the weather, I guess for a pwBPD, so do the facts/ the truth?

Also, like little children, they seem to do that thing of "It wasn't me that ate the chocolate cookies" even if it was them. It seems like they can't "hold" a negative truth about themselves, so preservation of their self-esteem/ sense of self takes massive priority over something as seeminlgy irrelevant as "truths" or "facts" to them. I guess to them it doesn't matter who *ate* the cookies, but who gets *blamed* for eating the cookies.

It certainly is disturbing to meet and interact with someone whose priorities are so completely skewed and different to our own. Meeting someone for whom "the truth" is irrelevant is deeply disturbing and makes us question ourselves and others.

When you look at all statements from a pwBPD being about "preserving/ clinging to a sense of self" and "truth" being nearly or completely irrelevant, it starts to dawn on you what the scope/ depth/ impact of this disorder is.

The "not showing remorse or guilt" may be due to the above-mentioned cookie example too. It *could* be a narcissistic thing, it could be as simple as "I cannot bear to have done something bad so I must go into denial" thing too.

I think denial is a lot less "horrible" than narcisism, so it might be worth looking into which of those 2 things it is more likely to be in your BPDx's case.

[Gunit1]

Yeah, it's really difficult. I think we can help each other look for the clues here tho.

Pathological lying must be a disturbing thing to experience. I don't think I experienced it with my BPDx, tho I am not sure! I know he twisted the truth around a lot, to suit his interpretation, but to be honest, I don't know how much he lied about. I don't even know if I want to find out.

Two things spring to mind. You see a lot of people here posting that for pwBPD, "feelings = facts". And because feelings change (even radically) like the weather, I guess for a pwBPD, so do the facts/ the truth?

Also, like little children, they seem to do that thing of "It wasn't me that ate the chocolate cookies" even if it was them. It seems like they can't "hold" a negative truth about themselves, so preservation of their self-esteem/ sense of self takes massive priority over something as seeminlgy irrelevant as "truths" or "facts" to them. I guess to them it doesn't matter who *ate* the cookies, but who gets *blamed* for eating the cookies.

It certainly is disturbing to meet and interact with someone whose priorities are so completely skewed and different to our own. Meeting someone for whom "the truth" is irrelevant is deeply disturbing and makes us question ourselves and others.

When you look at all statements from a pwBPD being about "preserving/ clinging to a sense of self" and "truth" being nearly or completely irrelevant, it starts to dawn on you what the scope/ depth/ impact of this disorder is.

The "not showing remorse or guilt" may be due to the above-mentioned cookie example too. It *could* be a narcissistic thing, it could be as simple as "I cannot bear to have done something bad so I must go into denial" thing too.

I think denial is a lot less "horrible" than narcisism, so it might be worth looking into which of those 2 things it is more likely to be in your BPDx's case.

What don't get is if their feelings change do rapidly why did she seem so in love with me for year and half and then cheat and want me gone within weeks. So year and half sure couple push pulls at start but last 6 months all lovey and obsessed until day she cheated and I knew it Coz from that trip onwards she stopped saying I love u or miss you.

She lies about everything and will tell someone slightly different story depending on who she's talking too. Told 3 diff ppl I know what we paid for her house which makes no sense to even lie about, who she is attracted too while telling me she doesn't notice other men, been heaps small things found out after the aftermath but I woukdnt want to know all the lies because it wouldn't do me any good.

I agree maybe it's denial maybe it's not but know they say alot BPD have narcissistic traits so could be that as she fits bill for a lot and just how she acts in general. I use to be taken back when told me about criticism at work and she would say they are just jealous of me... Sorta thought that sounds bit on yourself.