"You are a narcissist"

[walkinthepark247]

Throughout my marriage, I have been called many, many names by my spouse. Typically, it all relates to what a horrible husband and father she thinks I am. Truthfully, much of the anger she experiences were from traumatic events in her childhood related to men. She speaks of most men this way. For whatever reason, it just really got me down today when my wife yet again said that I am a “very selfish” person. And, that's really one of the more benign comments she has called me.

Look, I know that I am not perfect. But, I am not a “narcissist” as she repeatedly claims. Believe me, I have even done reading on this to learn more. If I were such a narcissist, selfish @sshole (as I am constantly called), why would I be spending so much time on this site trying to learn more? Why would I have downloaded countless books about bettering the relationship with someone with BPD? Why would I rush home to take the kids out because I know their mother is about to blow a gasket most days? Why would I try to plan so many events for our kids when I know you are so awkward around other people?

I know that this post doesn’t really have much coherence. I’m just feeling very low today about this. I accept that I am likely never going to get encouragement or understanding from my spouse. I have also accepted that my spouse is not likely to get better or admit that there is a problem. In fact, I told her two weekends ago what I accepted many months back: That I feel so very sorry for her. It must be terrible to go through life with that kind of anger and suspicion constantly.

I’m wondering if others are called narcissist or selfish on a regular basis? How do you deal with it? It’s ok to be human and admit that it really gets to me at times.

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[Tattered Heart]

I'm sorry you are struggling today walkinthepark247. Words that go against our character seem to be the hardest words for me to hear too.

Did something trigger?

[walkinthepark247]

As often happens, it’s when one of the kids hurts themselves or does something they aren’t supposed to do. Today, my 5-year-old hit her 2-year-old sister. I was standing there and tried to break the two up. Of course, my wife didn’t see it that way. She immediately got into “where were you?”. Going back to my wife’s childhood, she had a very traumatic childhood. She basically raised herself and was alone a lot of the time. I’m not Freud, but sometimes it is abundantly clear that this is what we are dealing with: all of that anger and frustration that lies beneath the surface even in the best of times (when it isn’t spilling over into violence or screaming).

I just get really upset by my spouse constantly implying that I’m a terrible father. OK, you’ve made it abundantly clear that I’m a terrible partner. I get it. I will likely never be able to change your mind in that regard and it really isn’t my focus anymore. But, leave me my fatherhood. Because, I’m very proud of that and would step in front of a train for my kids. In fact, I do my best to try to protect them from their mother when she cannot get her emotions together. That’s not selfish. It’s affected my health.

[Tattered Heart]

As often happens, it’s when one of the kids hurts themselves or does something they aren’t supposed to do. Today, my 5-year-old hit her 2-year-old sister. I was standing there and tried to break the two up. Of course, my wife didn’t see it that way. She immediately got into “where were you?”.

This sounds to me like she is just making noise. She felt stressed and so instead of processing that stress herself, she projects it onto you.

One response could be: "Where were you too?" but of course that would lead to her feeling attacked and blowing up. Probably not the best response.

Another response: (Ignore her statement) "Man, that was stressful. I was a little overwhelmed by it. How are you feeling?"

I just get really upset by my spouse constantly implying that I’m a terrible father. OK, you’ve made it abundantly clear that I’m a terrible partner. I get it. I will likely never be able to change your mind in that regard and it really isn’t my focus anymore.

I know it's hard to have someone tell you that you are bad father. But it sounds to me like you know you are a good dad. You don't need to prove that to her.

[Radcliff]

walkinthepark247,

You are not alone.  My wife told me I had BPD, NPD, was bipolar, suicidal, sociopathic, etc.  I was constantly told I was selfish.  I was constantly told I was a bad father (yes, that one hurts, but it's likely to continue).  All of the wild psychological diagnoses were relatively easy to shrug off.  The fatherhood comments were not.  I hear you.

For certain, you are not a narcissist.  I've seen a couple here.  You are not one of them.  I know you know this, but wanted to emphasize it!

I think Tattered Heart hit the nail on the head.  For the fatherhood thing, you are going to need to self validate.  And the reactions you get from your kids when you are there for them can also be validating.  What are some of the moments where you think, "Hey, I'm a great dad!"?

WW

[walkinthepark247]

WW,

Thanks for your kind words. Believe me, I need to hear that I am a good person sometimes. The hardest part for me about being in a long-term BPD relationship is the constant beating down and negativity that can come your way. Yes, it's easy to tell yourself that you are a good person and not the horrible/lazy/incompetent idiot your BPD spouse/SO tells you.

[isilme]

She basically raised herself and was alone a lot of the time. I’m not Freud, but sometimes it is abundantly clear that this is what we are dealing with: all of that anger and frustration that lies beneath the surface even in the best of times (when it isn’t spilling over into violence or screaming).

This struck me, as I was left in a similar situation, pretty much raising myself, neglected and alone unless I had duties to perform as the caretaker for my substance abusing BPD mother.  I found this site partly at a time when I was in a terrible place in my relationship but also was having repressed feelings tied to memories of my neglect and abuse come back, and I finally allowed myself to admit I felt rage and anger at being treated the way I was as a child.

I have been terrified of ever having kids, and we are childfree by choice... .at least, that's the easy way to explain I did not want to stick another generation with any potential repeats of my childhood or make horrible new mistakes trying to avoid the old ones... .and H's BPD making him pretty much years behind his peers in age-related responsibility, he might really want to be a dad by 60, and I will be well into or past menopause by then - he is about whre I'd put a man in his early 30s as far as things like kids at this point, he's about to be 41... .so yeah, if I'd have aspirations for kids, I'd ahve had to elave the relatisonhip.  Overall I am okay with this and will just take care of kitties. 

I think in the case of the comments and insults about your parenting abilities, and off the cuff commentary on your personal traits is often just like others have stated:  she is reacting by spewing her emotions on you - you are a "safe" target for her.  She can't manage her feelings, she has BPD.  She looks to you to do it, but rationally, we all know on here that you can't manage her feelings for her. 

In cases like "where were you," = "I see this incident causing em a meltdown as your fault" I tend to factually answer "across the room, walking towards them."  And do my very best to ignore jabs and slights.  She needs to pick a fight so she can yell more.  Don't reciprocate.  She needs to make it about you, refuse to accept the blame.  This does not mean argue, it means, internally, know you are better than her words are trying to make you be.  I can call a horse a sheep as much as I like, but I'm not going to be able to make a sweater any time soon from shearing a horse.  My words, claims, and insults won't change the facts.

Fact - you care about your W and your kids, else you'd not be here, or looking things up anywhere else, and not be worried her claims are right.

People who don't care, aren't hurt by insults and don't fall into patterns of self-doubt about their feelings and motivations.

In addition to looking for ways to remember how hard you try as a spouse and a dad, maybe you can use SET tools as a long-term campaign to get her to see kids are... .kids.  No matter her life, they will act out, they will bicker, fight, and at 2 and 5 years old, they lack the skills to resolve things many other ways.  Kids will fall, bruise knees, drop things, break things - their little bodies and their little minds are still grown, they are still developing motor skills, and this continues honestly until their 20s.  They can't grow if they are in a bubble, where every movement is controlled to prevent harm. 

She finds harm or perceived harm to them distressing.  She can't handle it, and will simply lash out if it happens.  My SIL is a bit like this, following a miscarriage she would not put the baby from her next pregnancy down, she was so worried something would happen to her, even to cook dinner shop, or take out the trash.  She was a wreck, and only know that the kid is almost 10 is she improving.  She refused to let the little girl wear shorts for a long time, in case she skinned her knees, etc.  Also, if the youngest child is 2, there are likely some internal mommy things going on.  Did she nurse?  If so, the out of whack pregnancy hormones can still be readjusting her moods and feelings even to 2 years old.  Even if not, hormones do a LOT for people's emotions, men and women.  So please remember when an emotional person tells you that you are selfish, it's not real.  It's no more real than being yelled at by a drunk.  They believe it... .then.  But as the "sober" person, you DO know better and can learn to let those comments slide off a bit, and not let them harm you. 

Thanks for working to be a better dad than I had, and not pawning your W off ont the 5 year old to "take care of". 

[Enabler]

Isilme, that was so perfectly put, especially the words of a drunk... .drunk or emotions maybe?

[zachira]

How difficult and painful it is to have a wife call you a narcissist when you are doing everything you can to save your marriage, keep your family intact, and help you children. Being told you are selfish seems to be the most common label used by borderlines to attack people they are close to and instill guilt so they can better manipulate you. My brother who is borderline told me I was selfish and never do anything for anyone after spending a week coordinating Christmas for the whole family.
What is key here is to understand how projection works. Basically it is the dumping of uncomfortable feelings a person cannot tolerate onto another person. For example, one spouse is angry, so they get their partner angry to not have to deal with their own anger. It sounds like you are having feelings dumped on you that belong to your wife. When the feelings are projections, they feel very disturbing and are hard to get rid of, because they aren't your feelings to begin with. Whatever your wife accuses you of, it is probably true about her and has nothing to do with you. Your challenge is to let her take responsibility for her feelings without getting enmeshed, and what is probably most helpful is to keep reminding yourself that these are her feelings about herself.
Many of us on the Board struggle with situations similar to yours. We are here to listen anytime.

[Enabler]

Having been accused of being narcissistic by my wife and her flying monkeys (many of which don’t know me) I put some thought into why it is I might be accused of being narcissistic. This is going to be a bit about me and my experience now... .because I’m so narcissistic you see... .siiiigh.

1) we all know that there is only room for 1 persons emotional needs, and in fact practical needs in a relationship with someone with BPD traits. So, it goes without saying that for long periods of time we “nons” suppress our true needs and desires to accommodate the more urgent needs of the pwBPD (on fire running into a lake). Our gentle requests for attention are missed/ignored or deemed unimportant vs theirs and therefore I personally get to the point where I have to match her level of desperation and start shouting. My need has turned into dysregulation and dysregulation and exhaspiration typically result in narcissistic (survival needs). It typically comes out with me as I want, I need, why have you not, why have you... .etc etc so, I’m conclusion here I could be seen as narcissistic, it is all about me me me because it hasn’t been about me me me for so long I’m emotionally done.

2) A non having a need is always lesser to a pwBPDs needs “I know you want a new pair of jeans because yours have a hole in them, but can you not see I only have 6 and that’s not even one for every day of the week”. “I know you need financial security and are planning for the future but I need to retrain as an elephant trainer because the pixies in the garden told me to”.

3) “love means you will do anything for me, that means you should sacrifice yourself for me, if you don’t, you don’t love me”. The confused nature of love when someone defines love as meeting all of their emotional and physical needs (which I might add is what a parent should supply, not two adults in a healthy adult partnership) means that rather than seeing the other partner as someone with individual responsibilities, they see their partner as a parent whom is responsible for meeting all of their primary needs and enabling their happiness. Rather than being a symbiotic relationship it turns into a saproficiial relationship where the pwBPD consumes way more of the emotional and economic resources in the partnership. You thinking of you is selfish and out of the realms of comprehension.

As much as a pwBPD is not narcissistic because they are acting in accordance with meeting their own perceived primary basic survival needs rather than gaining their special treatment based on a perception of superiority and grandeosity. I am not acting in a narcissistic fashion by being self centred to gain “special” treatment but attaining a basic level of fairness and sense of partnership (unattainable) in the relationship. Having personal wants needs and desires is not innately bad, in fact it is a good thing, what is bad is when one takes more than their fair share.

Using a numbers analogy:

BPD thinks they are at -1 and trying to get to 0, they are actually at 0 and asking to get to 1.
Non is at -1 and is trying to get to 0

**** sweeping generalisation based on MY experience******

[isilme]

“I know you need financial security and are planning for the future but I need to retrain as an elephant trainer because the pixies in the garden told me to”.

Hahahahahahaha!

Off topic a bit, but sometimes I feel that H makes grandiose requests or sets restrictive strictures on tasks to prevent them from being done.  I wonder if some things are scary to him to have completed, and so he wants them forever to be in the ether.  I am often given an equivalent to draining a pond with a slotted spoon, and if I can't it's because I am all manner of lazy and good for nothing don't care. 

I think the term narcissist is simply overused by many to mean "self-centered" and little more.  The distinctions of delusions of grandeur don't come into the use fo the word.

[Enabler]

So crudely speaking “you’re so narcissistic thinking about yourself! How could you order the Hawaiian pizza when you clearly heard I couldn’t decide between the margarita and meat feast!”