Personal attacks and reconnecting after an episode

[laurel1980]

Okay... .so in typical BPD or narcissist fashion... .my wife has made it her mission in life to alienate me from my family.  Yes my family has reasons to not like her, and they have made that known.  And so she feels like any communication at all that I maintain with them, is a complete and total betrayal to her.  And many times over the past couple years, she has told me it is her or them.  I refuse to cut them out of my life.  They are not the terrible people she thinks they are.  But they do care a lot about me, and don't like to see me in an abusive relationship, so yeah they have said things before.  So now, she thinks anything short of me never talking to them again, is acceptable and a betrayal of my love for her.  I have been trying so hard to try to figure out how to maintain a relationship both with them AND with her, and it just does not seem possible.  So I have found it much easiest to reluctantly go ahead and just almost never talk to my family (my parents and sister) at all.  And I can maintain a fairly decent level of peace as long as my family never comes up, and I never get any texts from them.  But one day, my mom might send me a text message, and immediately it sends us into another huge fight.

  So anyway... .we again are currently in a huge multi day fight at the moment about my family.  She insists I cut them out, I miss them and have not had hardly anything at all to do with them ever since i got with her 3 years ago.  So the subject came up again the other day, and like usual, she is so threatened by the thought of me so much as talking to them, that we are now in day 3 of this hell.

  So... .I am transgender.  Okay... .Yes... .regardless of what you all might think about that, and whether you see it as a valid thing or a mental illness, that's not what I'm here about.  But I am transgender, therefore she married a man, and after being married a while, I did spring on her the news that I'm not really a man.  Very very tragic thing to happen to a person, I know. All of a sudden, her expectation of the future crumbled before her eyes.  And I get that, and am very sensitive to it and have cried myself to sleep many many nights over the heartache of realizing what I am doing to her.  We have navigated the whole thing together, and once she realized it was something I had to do, she became my greatest support, and seems to love me even more now as a woman than she did before.  Okay.    However... .when she gets mad at me, again in typical BPD fashion, she brings out the insults and personal attacks.   

  One: It is extremely important to a transgender person to be refered to as the gender they identify with.  And she has been amazing at doing that for me.  She refers to me regularly as her wife, and refers to me as "She" and "Her" now, and it has been amazing that she has been so supportive of that.  But the day before yesterday, the other common subject for us to fight about came up, and that is the fact that I don't call her sweet names regularly.  It's just not my thing to do that.  And every couple weeks we get into another big fight about me not doing it for her.  I try to appologize and explain that it just doesn't come natural to me, but I'm working on it.  Well... .she said "Fine... .if you aren't going to call me sweet names, I'm going to start misgendering you and not using the proper pronouns for you until you start calling me sweet names."  Such an incredibly immature thing to say!  This is something I cannot change about myself, and is the subject of much emotion and sadness trying to live with being transgender as it is and all the hell I have to go through, and then for her to get so personal like that and threaten to use it against me as a way to manipulate me into being the person she wants me to be.  But wait... .it's gets even better.

  Yesterday, we tried talking again to fix things.  This time the conversation yet again go super heated real quick, and she said "I'm tired of going out in public with you and looking like a freak show!  And I'm sick and tired of having to explain to people why our family looks the way it does!"   She knew that would hurt me.  In fact out of all the things she has ever said to me when we are fighting, that was the number one most hurtful thing she has ever said.  And it hurts so bad, because she already knows how incredibly difficult it is for us trans people to go out in public as "ourselves".  Knowing that everyone is looking at us.  And I know that it affects her too.  I know it is putting her in an uncomfortable position, and her and I have talked about it many many times, and I have expressed to her many times how thankful I am that she is supportive and goes with me in public like normal.  But now that she is mad at me, her true inner thoughts on the subject seem to surface.  It could have been any other hurtful comment, but this time she felt the need to get super personal about something that is already such a sensitive subject as it is.  I called her on it, she couldn't handle that, and ended up throwing her wedding rings at me and said we are over (like she has done about 25 million times in the 3 years).  So I slept in the basement last night, and have not seen her all day today.  But... .her and our daughter were getting to go to yoga. Usually I go with them.  And it's a place where lately I have been going as the woman I am, and the yoga people are very nice and accepting of me.  But since we are fighting, and she just made it quite clear that she feels like a freak show when seen in public with me, I did not feel like going.

 So the following is our text conversation back and forth as she was about to leave for yoga.   

  So I am curious as to what your guys thoughts are about how she responds to my messages.  I don't necesarilly want anyones thoughts on the whole transgender issue.  But am specifically wondering what your thoughts are on her messages back to me and whether they are an appropriate response to my messages to her.

Her: You going to yoga
Her:Ever think it may do you good to go to yoga?  Especially when your upset and disassociated

Me:Sure it would.  I love going to yoga.  But not right now.

Her:So punish your own nervous system over your pride?
Her:And your body and mind?  That makes no sense.
Her:I have to leave in like 3 min

Me:Okay have a good time.  I would hate to come and make you feel like a freak show in front of your yoga friends, or put you in a position to have to explain why your family looks this way.  No I think I will stay right here.

Her: Seriously wow.  Way to be a passive aggressive a$$ to me when I’m trying to be kind  
Her: I needed to cry again today thanks
Her:Have a great afternoon larell

Me: You say something incredibly hurtful to me that hurts my feelings worse than anything you have ever said to me and somehow I’m the passive aggressive a$$ when I bring it up?  No no.  I’ve been waiting for you to apologize to me for that supremely f*(^% up statement, but you pretty much never do, so I just have to be sad about it and eventually get over it on my own.  But having had it said so recently, I absolutely cannot picture myself going in public with you as myself knowing that’s how you feel.

Her: I actually have never said that larell so whatever

Me: Okay  

Her: I didn’t say that I said it’s not easy every day dealing with being strong and supporting you just for you to f*(^ me off when I need you.  Jesus larell.  You turn things so crazy in you mind

Me: I realize that you were upset at the time and we all tend to say things when we are upset that we don’t mean.  But the fact is, I was incredibly hurt by what you said, and it came across as extremely personal and I am having a seriously difficult time hearing those words echo over and over in my head.  After all we have been through and how incredibly supportive and understanding I thought you were.  To hear your true inner thoughts come out in a time of heated argument…... really really hurt.  So forgive me if I am extremely hesitant to feel safe now going out in public as myself with you when I am sitting there feeling like you think we are a freak show on display.

Her: Wow way to make it all about you.  How do you think I feel larell after supporting you and your family who actually calls you a freak gets you to stand up for them saying they love you and blah blah blah.  Unreal Man.
Her: And yes people stare and yes it’s hard.  I’m a beautiful young woman and yes it seems odd to people.  Had that made me stop supporting you.  Nope.  But then how do you treat me? Huh like sh*% like I don’t care and support you every f*(^ing day just to be sh*& on.  You have no clue how hurt I am by you.  You have no idea how you have betrayed me and hurt me and allowed abuse to me and you and how traumatizing it’s been.

Me: I love you Valerie.  I love you ever single day.  I never will be perfect.  I’m sorry that it seems like I treat you poorly.  I have my weaknesses. But I try my best with what I have.  I could always be better.  But there is no justification for saying such hurtful things to your partner no matter how mad you are.  I wish you would have responded with “oh, I’m so sorry I said that and that it hurt you so bad.”  But no.  You instead continued to make me out to be the crazy one.  Whatever.  Just go enjoy your yoga class and I guess I will have to just get over this one on my own too.

Her: Seriously larell listen to what you said to me
Her: What about all I have to get over on my own with no support and empathy from you ? Have you stopped to consider that.  You hurt me big time yesterday larell that’s why I told you I’m done.  Then you go back say your sorry and the next day you act like a jerk and make it all about you and create this weird reality for yourself.

Me: Am I being a jerk right now?

Her: Also what about the hurtful sh*& you spew at me when we fight.  It isn’t one sided.  Not at all.  Stop comparing
Her: Yes your blaming me and shaming me and acting rude when I invite you to yoga.  Then not excepting any responsibility at all! It’s insane.  I cannot handle your back and forth duel personalities.
Her: Forget it just stay away from me until we can figure how to exist in one house or get another place for you.  I refuse to live like this with how you continue to hurt me and shift blame.  I’m not tolerating it and I’m not tolerating you defending your fu*^&ing family to me.  No more.

Me: I feel the same

Her: It’s not worth it.  We can’t even have sex anymore.  It’s more companionate anyway.
Her: We just need to move on larell this is going to keep happening and one of us is going to kill ourselves or the other person

Me: Yep exactly.  It is incredibly sad and I do really love you, and I’m  sorry I have hurt you, but I can’t continue living up to your expectations of me and me being hurt every time you get upset and want to say very personal hurtful things because you don’t know how else to get to me.

I have been feeling like I'm crazy all this time!  I have been seeking therapy from multiple therapists at her request to figure out MY problems.  Yes I do have a lot of childhood traumas and have complex PTSD from my childhood that causes me to get triggered by things in ways I shouldn't.  But... .the way she responds to me, and NEVER apologizes to me even when I express how hurt I was... .I am really beginning to finally see these patterns for what they are, and realizing that I'm not really crazy!  And I don't know how to salvage this!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Harri]

Hi laurel.  That is a complicated situation with a whole bunch of hurt there on both sides.  It must be so hurtful to feel that you are not accepted and that the fact that you are trans
is used as a weapon sometimes.  Did your wife ever go for counseling after you told her you were trans to help her accept the change?  You said she has been wonderful for the most part so i am wondering how you both were able to manage.  How long has it been since you told her?  I understand it was after you were married but when was that?

We have an article here on the site called JADE which stands for Justify, argue, defend explain.  I think of it as a sort of guideline for what not to do when in an argument where both parties are hurt and the conversation is going no where fast.  Here is a link:  Don't JADEIt can help reduce conflict, prevent invalidation of the other person and in my mind, it help you to not invalidate yourself by getting defensive.  Generally when people are upset it serves no purpose to JADE.  I always think of it as a tool for maintaining my self respect.  Check it out.  When JADE is combined with S.E.T. and Validation, there can be a serious improvement in communication.  Using these strategies take time and practice.

What do you think?

[Radcliff]

laurel,

I'm sorry to hear of the tough situation you're facing, but am glad you've found us.  I often say to folks, "bring us your big problems, this place can handle it."  I have been astonished at how much good can happen here.

Let me give you some direct feedback -- text is absolutely awful for problem solving.  It can get us in so much trouble!  I actually did read some nice empathy and care in your wife's first text.  Your desire to stay home was totally understandable.  But things went south quickly.  Honestly I didn't read past the first few messages because I've had so many of my own text disasters I knew that it wasn't helpful to try to parse details out of all that.  The key is to only use text for short exchanges.  Never try to make a point.  Never try to communicate feelings or hurt.

There are tools you can learn by hanging out with folks like us that will make a real impact on your life and help to reduce conflict with a person with BPD.  Check out this link on how to validate and avoid being invalidating.  Any thoughts on how your initial response might have felt invalidating to your wife?  How might you have altered your first text or two to get out of going to yoga without triggering her?

On the transgender aspect... .sadly, it is not surprising at all for a pwBPD to hit where it hurts the most.  This comes out of their own deep hurt.  I believe it to be one of the most difficult and anguishing things for us "nons" to cope with.  That said, the fact that you are reporting that she has overall been supportive is great news, and pretty impressive for a pwBPD.

Take a look at the tools on the top bar and the lessons on the right of this page.  See what you might find useful.  This message board is a great place to talk through things as you practice using the tools with your wife.  It is not simple in the real world!  Speaking of tools, and thinking of your text conversation with your wife, you may also want to check out this page on how not to JADE.

Let us know what you think about those links!  We are glad you are here!

WW

[LovingDad]

Dear Laurel,

Be proud of yourself because you started this post. The conversation you had is so firmiliar for me. I have had these kind of conversations too. It is difficult and hurtfull. It even hurt me when I was reading the conversation.

A very important thing to realize is not to see it as an personal attack. She can't control herself and therefore she has to control her environment. She hurts the people she loves the most. I feel that every week with my wife.

I only know that my wife has BPD for a couple of weeks and I have read that texting is not the best way of communicating. Furthermore it is important not to say too much. Less is more in de case op people with BPD.

When my BPDwife is outraged, arguments doesn't work. I then have to say what I see and want my opinion is. No arguments. That is very difficult, because I'm a talker, but my therapist says that is the only way to get her of her 'high horse'.

In the laste couple of weeks I have been reading the book 'The Borderline guide' this helps me now I lot. I have learned so much about BPD and how to deal with it. Now I have to teach myself what I have learned. This will be a long process, but I believe I can do this. I believe you can learn it to, because you love her so much.

I think the only way you can help her is by changing your own behavior of dealing with it. Than you can see if she changes with you. If she do, you will have a better en hopefully wonderfull relationship.

I wish you all the best and wil pray for you.

[laurel1980]

Thanks for the replies and advice!   Yes I realize that texting is always a very bad idea... .in any relationship.  Things can get misunderstood and misread so easily.  Although with her, even in person she is always mishearing me and reading things into what I say and then telling me that I said something I didn't which leaves me to wish so bad I had a recording of the conversation.  So I like that texting keeps a record of exactly what was said even though it too can so easily be twisted.

   Also... .the only reason that particular conversation happened through text is because she bannished me to the basement in my own house, and when I was trying to very calmly talk to her in person earlier, she told me to just shut up and F off because she didn't want to see my face anymore.  So having just gone through that, and then her asking if I want to go to Yoga?  Hell no!  She doesn't get to treat me that way and then still control me and have me be this loving nice person.  It doesn't work that way.  I know she has this condition, and I am the absolute most compassionate person to that to her of anyone I know.  Others tell me to RUN! GET OUT OF THAT ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP! And I tell them no.  Because I love her, and I know that it is not necesarilly within her control, and it would be very unloving of me to abandon her because of something she can't really change about herself.  Which is why I go to therapy to help myself overcome my own issues so that I can be there for her.  I don't ever suggest that she go to therapy.  I don't ever tell her that she has BPD.  I just love her, and get so frustrated that nothing ever seems to make sense.   I stand there realizing how incredibly happy we could be together, and so much in love if she would just simply stop responding to every stupid little thing with anger, and if she would stop trying to control my every move.  If she could do those two things for me, everything would be great and we could go on with our happy, loving lives. 

  But since she is so quick to respond to every single slightly undesireable situation with anger, it immediatley triggers me from the childhood trauma I have of living my entire life with an angry narcisistic mother who also responded to every little thing she didn't like with anger.  It is like I am back living with my mother again.    I feel as if I died when I got with her.  I had an amazing life and had lots of self confidence and accomplishments, and was always engaged in some creative hobby whether it was restoring cars and trucks, to flying helicopters, recording songs in my home recording studio, creating videos.  I have a lot of interests in my life that I LOVED to do.  But ever since getting with her, my life came to a complete stop.  I stand here feeling as if I walked into a high security prison and had to leave all of that stuff I loved so much outside, and I keep experiencing times of happiness in this prison that makes me not so miserable to be here, but then when the happiness goes away and the fighting comes back, I am right back to feeling lonely and depressed and trapped here, and longing so bad to get to do all of the things I so loved to do in my life again, but I can't, and have no idea when or if I will ever be able to, whether that means the security being lifted and allowing that stuff to come inside the prison, or me getting out to where I can finally live my life again.  I love her so much, and wish so bad it was possible to have her AND the other stuff that I love to do.  And I know that normally, that WOULD absolutely be possible.  Of course there are compromises when you get in a relationship and have a kid. All of a sudden there is less time to do the things you love.  I know that very well.  But... .the things you love to do should never just stop completely and leave you feeling so unfulfilled in life.   

  Right from the start when we first got together, the subject of some of the stuff I used to love doing would come up, and she would say things like "Well that seems like a waste of time."  Or "Why would you want to do something like that?  That seems kind of stupid."  And just totally would invalidate every little thing that I would tell her I used to love to do, almost as if to imply "That was the old you, now you won't be doing that ridiculous stuff anymore."  This is not at all what I pictured marriage to be like.   I pictured getting to remain pretty much the same person I was, but adding someone to my existence.  Not having to fundamentally change everything about myself to align with her expectations.

  I literally feel like a sensitive crying puppydog locked in a cage with no idea when someone will ever let me out, and once in a while someone starts walking over, and I get my hopes up that this might finally be when I get out, and get to be free again, but then no... .they just walk on by, and I have to curl back up in my lonely dark cold corner.  In this case quite literally since I am sleeping in our cold dark unfinnished basement on a mattress on the floor.  Now in case you are wondering... .being let out of that cage does not mean "leaving" her.  My desire is to be let out of the cage but still be with her and be happy.  And the only way that can happen, is for her to get DBT or some other form of really good therapy that allows her to live happy, which in turn results in me getting to live happy as well.  That's all I need.  For her to be happy, and stop trying to control every last little thing. 

  It's even stupid things like when we wake up in the morning together, I usually have to lay there for a while to wake up before I try standing up, or I will fall over.  But she gets out of bed and says "Get up and help me make the bed."  No please ever.  Just a demand.  Even when she's not upset at me.  If she needs her water bottle filled up, it is "Get me some more water."  Instead of "Would you please get me some more water?"  I don't judge her too much for this.  I figure it must have been how she was raised.  That you just don't say please when asking someone to do something for you.  It is more of a demand.  And her daughter is the same way.  Almost 6 years old and everything is a demand.  It is really difficult to nicely do things for people when they demand it.  However... .again... .I just chalk it up to how she was raised, and don't let myself worry about it too much.  It just really sucks to always feel like I am her slave that is just expected to bow to her ever need.  But I do.  She says jump, I always say how high.  I lovingly do every last little thing she ever asks me to do without complaining ever.  No matter what it is I have going on, I drop it, and do what she wants.  Because I am trying so hard to keep the peace. 

  Standing up for myself NEVER works in my favor.  Because she sees every single attempt to explain myself or requests of her to change her behaviors a little bit, as direct attacks and insults.  Even though I very kindly bring up a concern I might have which is extremely rare because I am a conflict avoider to epic extremes, she just sees it as an attack and tells me "You are being so mean to me right now!"  And I will say "I'm sorry, I love you so much and I'm just trying to figure out how we can work this out."  "You are such a jerk!  Why are you being so mean to me right now?  You have made the past three years of my life absolute hell!"  And I'm just standing there thinking back over the past three years, and thinking about all that I have done for her, and all the fun trips we've gone on together, and all the fun we have, and am so confused as to what she could possibly be talking about.  Literally feeling like I am losing my mind, and going insane.  I constantly question reality and what is normal.  I came across an article the other day called something like "7 signs your partner is a narcissist."  And it was as if it was written about my life!  I absolutely related to every single paragraph.  She does a LOT of projecting.  She will tell me all the time that I am a narcissist or that I am such a liar.  Blaming and accusing me of everything she is actually the one doing.  And to be on the receiving end of that can be so extremely aggravating and crazy making!

  Anyway... .thanks for the replies and links and resources.  I will have to really familiarize myself with this JADE thing.  I've seen other people post about it, but I don't yet have a firm grasp on just what it is and how to recognize if I am doing it or not.  So I will go research that.  Thanks!

[laurel1980]

Okay now I see what JADEing is.  And yes.  We go through this a LOT!  Because it absolutely is a natural response to Justify, to return Attacks with attacks, to Defend.  I can get very deffensive when I feel attacked and desire to be heard and understood, but that NEVER happens.  And all the time she tells me "I don't want your Explanation!"  To which I say "I know, I'm just trying to help you understand why I said that" or whatever the case may be. 

  Last night I was finally in a place where I was no longer emotionally charged at all, and was yet again just trying to be very calm with her and telling her again how much I love her, and that I am here for you when you want to talk again and work this out.  To which she again accused me of being a jerk and destroying her life.  "Okay, well I love you very much, and I'm here for you when you are ready."  "I told you we are done!  There is no fixing this!"  "Okay, well I love you.  Have a good night."  Don't know if that was the correct response to that either, but when she is in that mode, there is not a darn thing I can say or do right.

[laurel1980]

So as for the issue with my family... .  I wish so bad that I could figure out how to resolve this problem.  My family quite often reaches out to me because they love and miss me.  My wife made me block my sister on facebook.  My sister was always my best friend and cares greatly about me.  My wife is convinced my sister is a terrible, evil narcissitic person that is out to destroy us.  And therefore, any contact I have at all with my sister is seen as a tremendous betrayal to her.  This is not okay!  It is not okay for me to completely abandon my family just because my wife is threatened by them.  I don't care what anyone says, that is not okay, and it is not acceptable for her to expect that of me.  If they really were the terrible, horrific dangerous people she claims they are, then sure.  But they aren't.  Logically, if you look at what they have done, they have left us alone to live our lives, and they simply send me a text message now and then like my sister just did a few minutes ago, telling me that she loves and misses me.  That message alone would be enough to propel us into an argument about my family and how terrible and manipulative they are.  But if I were to respond to my sister by saying "Love and miss you too" then that would set us into an all out war, because my wife, again, sees every communication I make back to my sister as a serious threat to her.

  What the hell do I do?  I love my wife, but I also still love my family and I cannot just say "Well, sorry family.  It was nice knowing you, but my wife forbids me to every have anything to do with you again."  That is not acceptable.  And so absolutely wrong on every level.  So anyone that would tell me to just do that for her in order to keep the peace, is lunatic.  I hope none of you would suggest that I cut off all contact with my family just to keep my wife happy.

  I lay in bed almost every night and fantasize about going back in time to before I met her, back to when I felt genuinely happy, and fulfilled in life, and had my beloved house and 5 acres in Oregon.  And I do this even when things are at their best with her.  Does that tell you something?

[laurel1980]

Is it normal for a BPD partner to blame your hurt and sadness that THEY caused on someone else?  I was experiencing that tonight.  We had a fairly okay fight free day today, but still very upset at each other.  Just not actively fighting.  Which was really nice, and I felt like maybe we might be getting somewhere.  This evening we had a mountain of laundry to fold.  We always do that together, and usually she wants to talk as we do it.  So I was feeling good and in a place to talk, and having familiarized myself with JADE, I felt fairly well equipped to take on the calm conversation.  It went well for like an hour as we were talking, as I was just remaining perfectly calm, and staying present in the conversation and actually talking to her and owning and admitting fault in my own stuff through our fight.   But she was still insisting that my family are terrible horrid people whom I should completely wipe out of my life.  And she told me again, basically that it is them or her, but I cannot have both.  This feels like an absolutely impossible position to be in.  She will not back down on the issue.  And neither will I.  It is not at all right or acceptable for her to expect me to completely block and ignore my parents and sister who love me very much and whom I love very much.  That is just not at all okay.  I know they have their issues, but they are not terrible horrid people that deserve to just be thrown away.   

  So what she does is, she does this to me, blaming me the entire time for her destroyed life, continuing to insist my family is scum and I need to never talk to or see them again, and then I get super sad and start to cry about that.  And I told her tonight that my heart is litterally panicking and breaking right now at the thought of having to do that to my poor family.  To which she proceeds to tell me that I have co-dependency issues with my family because of the abuse they put me through, and I suffer from stockholm syndrome and that's why I THINK they love me, and THINK I still love them, when in reality they are dangerous manipulative people who need to be wiped out of my life.  When in actuality... .I do suffer co-dependency issues now, and DO suffer from stockholm syndrome... .but not for my family.  For HER!  It is the weirdest thing to recognize this!  To see that everything she is telling me my family is doing to me, is actually stuff SHE is doing to me.  And therefore the issues that come along with being abused, are indeed there, but because of HER not my family.   

  So... .sadly when I started to see that, it caused me to shut down again in the conversation to which she said she still didn't feel resolved and told me to have a good night in the basement again.    The most I have ever slept away from her because of a fight has been three nights.  This is night three.  So we will see what happens tomorrow, if we can possibly salvage our weekend.  We always look forward to the weekends together, but so often we get in a fight right before, and the whole weekend gets destroyed.  The only thing that is going to make her happy... .is for me to tell her she is right, that now I see the light, my family are collosal a holes that deserve to be cut out of my life forever.  But there is just no way I can do that!  So we are at an impass.  It is literally either her or them at this point, and I cannot do that to my family just to save a marriage that leaves me feeling sad, broken and abused so much of the time anyway.  It would be one thing if she was normal and didn't react to everything the way she does, and if I didn't get in trouble constantly for every damn little thing I do.  But the reality is, she can be an absolute nightmare to live with, and expecting me to completely cut all contact with my family who loves and cares about me, is insane and I cannot do that.  But I know what's going to happen.  She is going to play this game with me, and insist I do it, and eventually one of her friends will talk some sense into her, or she will realize that she is being unreasonable, and doesn't have anywhere to go or a job and that maybe it is stupid to lose the secure home she has over something like that.  Which it absolutely is!  I know she feels justified.  I know she HAS indeed been wronged by my family, and I feel terrible for that, and I have cut communication with my family WAAAAAY back over it.  But I still work for them, and they are still good people.  They just have a hard time respecting boundaries.  But they most certainly have done nothing that deserves complete dismissal.  But she is convinced they do deserve that, and I find myself in an absolutely devastatingly hard position here.  Is she really right?  Should I completely walk away from my family in order to save my marriage?  Or should I leave my marriage that I have been so consistently depressed to be in anyway?  I am so conflicted!  I love her to death, and she can be so amazingly loving toward me and tell me how much she appreciates and love me.  And when things are good, we have a LOT of fun together and have very similar senses of humor, and love a lot of the same things, but at the same time, there are things about her that make me crazy, and then there's her severe BPD.  I've always tended to be of the mindset that "Sure she drives me crazy, but she would likely drive someone else crazy too, and maybe I was put on this earth to be the only one capable of loving her even through her craziness."  So I stay and try my hardest to work it out.  However, now I am realizing that maybe I would just be better off taking care of my own mental well being by getting out now before it gets so much worse and we have so much more life lived together.  I just don't know.  The sad thing is, I can sit her and see how incredibly easy it would be for us to get along.  How incredibly easy it would be for me to just be able to love her, if only she would stop blaming me for EVERYTHING and stop expecting me to be so cruel to people who love and care about me so much, and stop trying to control my every move.  We could be so happy like we are during the times when those things are not happening.   I wish so bad the subject of my family hadn't come up again!  My family didn't even do or say anything at all.  It was just simply the subject coming up again, and all hell broke loose.  I am so tired of this happening! I want to just be happy and to be able to love her!  I have spent countless hours studying resources on this website and other websites, and watching YouTube videos trying to gain an understanding as to how her brain works, and what she needs from me, and I do far better than I did in the past, but every time the subject of my family comes up, it seems to be the one thing we just cannot resolve short of me never speaking to or seeing them again.  And that is just not an option.  So what the hell do I do?  Because she is not going to accept anything short of that. 

[Radcliff]

laurel1980,

Wow, as I read your posts, I really can feel for where you are.  Everything you are experiencing is totally normal, and has been experienced by many of our members.

Good work on getting started with not JADEing!  I'm confident you'll see some good results.  Celebrate every victory, and when you stumble or things take a bad turn, dust yourself off and try the next time.  This stuff is messy.

Congratulations for being resolved to stay in touch with your family!  Take a look at this page on setting boundaries.  It's not an easy topic, but it's good to get started thinking about it.  The thing about setting boundaries for me that was a huge "aha!" is that we're almost never going to get our pwBPD to agree that the boundary is a good one.  We sometimes may be able to have a constructive conversation, and never want to be "in your face" about it, but often we just have to do it.  Boundaries are about our actions, not trying to control the other person.  For example, your reconnecting with your family would probably be good to do gradually.  One place to start might be to unblock your sister on Facebook.  If your wife objects, you can avoid JADE, and validate her feelings.  Assure her that she is your primary relationship, the center of your universe.  Then see if you can change the topic, or say you need to go to the bathroom, or something to keep the discussion from going on.

The loss of activities you enjoy is also a common story.  Part of that comes with having a family, but I bet that some of those activities would be feasible now.  This pitfall of giving up our identity in an abusive relationship is a common one.  It's a big deal.  For your long term health, you need to avoid losing yourself.  What would be "low lying fruit."  If there were one activity or thing that you've given up that would be the most feasible to get back sooner rather than later, what would it be?

You are still in the early stages of this.  The tools work.  It will take some time to get good at them.  They may not get you all the way to where you want to go, but they will get you headed in the right direction.  As you get healthier, you'll be better able to use the tools, and everything will seem much less daunting.  I know that now, it must be like looking at a garage that is waste deep in junk, not even knowing where to start!

WW

[laurel1980]

laurel1980,

Wow, as I read your posts, I really can feel for where you are.  Everything you are experiencing is totally normal, and has been experienced by many of our members.

Good work on getting started with not JADEing!  I'm confident you'll see some good results.  Celebrate every victory, and when you stumble or things take a bad turn, dust yourself off and try the next time.  This stuff is messy.

Congratulations for being resolved to stay in touch with your family!  Take a look at this page on setting boundaries.  It's not an easy topic, but it's good to get started thinking about it.  The thing about setting boundaries for me that was a huge "aha!" is that we're almost never going to get our pwBPD to agree that the boundary is a good one.  We sometimes may be able to have a constructive conversation, and never want to be "in your face" about it, but often we just have to do it.  Boundaries are about our actions, not trying to control the other person.  For example, your reconnecting with your family would probably be good to do gradually.  One place to start might be to unblock your sister on Facebook.  If your wife objects, you can avoid JADE, and validate her feelings.  Assure her that she is your primary relationship, the center of your universe.  Then see if you can change the topic, or say you need to go to the bathroom, or something to keep the discussion from going on.

The loss of activities you enjoy is also a common story.  Part of that comes with having a family, but I bet that some of those activities would be feasible now.  This pitfall of giving up our identity in an abusive relationship is a common one.  It's a big deal.  For your long term health, you need to avoid losing yourself.  What would be "low lying fruit."  If there were one activity or thing that you've given up that would be the most feasible to get back sooner rather than later, what would it be?

You are still in the early stages of this.  The tools work.  It will take some time to get good at them.  They may not get you all the way to where you want to go, but they will get you headed in the right direction.  As you get healthier, you'll be better able to use the tools, and everything will seem much less daunting.  I know that now, it must be like looking at a garage that is waste deep in junk, not even knowing where to start!

WW

Thank you so much for the great words of advice and help with this subject!  It really is appreciated!  I feel almost like her, in the sense that the few times I have posted here, I almost felt like people were more inclined to tell me what I was doing wrong, rather than validating my experience.  And when you are in a relationship with someone with BPD, you seriously lack that validation.  You begin to truly believe that you are crazy, and so you reach out to others hoping for some reassurance that you are not the crazy person your wife has been trying to make you believe you are.  So just being told what you are doing wrong in the relationship tends to make me feel like "Well crap, maybe I really am crazy!"   I think it would be hugely beneficial for the members of this forum to be familiar with BPD caused PTSD, and respond with that in mind.   So thank you for validating some of my concerns.

  So... .after sleeping in the basement for my third night in a row, I knew I that most likely would be the last.  Our fights usually do only last that long at the most.  And sure enough, after an entire day yesterday of not seeing or talking to each other... .(She had to get up early for a dentist appointment, and then she stayed out and about doing stuff for the entire day while I worked at home) last evening, she came home and was actually just being nice to me, and we ate dinner together and watched half of a movie, and then when it was time to go to bed, I asked "So do you want to sleep alone again tonight?"  And she kind of grinned and said "Not really... .do you?"  "Not really."  So she let me sleep with her again last night, and this morning we were both in a good mood and laughing and joking again.  Not quite back to normal yet, and I still can't get over the terrible things she said to me during this fight that she still has not even remotely come close to appologizing for.  And I'm just getting to the point where I know this is going to be a never ending cycle.  I started to really get happy and excited at the thought of having freedom and happiness in my life again.  I started making possible plans for if we did actually separate.  I miss California so bad, and ONLY moved here to Colorado to be with her.  If I were to separate from her... .I would sell our house, give her half the money, take my half and buy a nice travel trailer, and go back to California and stay at RV parks up and down the California coast and work from the trailer, or work on my laptop on the beach, and enjoy the warm sun, and freedom and happiness.   I want that so bad it makes me sick!  I would LOVE to get to do that with her.  To just sell our house and go traveling together in warmer, nicer places, and I have the freedom to work on the go from wherever we are.  And I know she would love that too, but she has her daughter who's dad lives and works here, and we cannot take her away from him for about another 10 years or so.  That feels like a never ending prison sentence to me!  I will be almost 50 years old by time we can finally move away from this place!  And that makes me want to cry!  I want my California beaches back soo bad!  I grew up there, and it is absolutely home to me.   What in the world did I allow myself to get dragged into here?

[Radcliff]

laurel1980,

Filling in some details here, and sorry if I missed them... .
How long have you been married?
How old is her daughter?
You have no kids together, right?

Ideally, what we do here is to validate and then coach folks on using the skills.  Sometimes we're so enthusiastic about the skills coaching, we miss the validation part    Living with a pwBPD can be "crazymaking" as they say, as well as terribly isolating, so validation and support is important to all of us, as you point out.

Many, many members come here questioning the future of their relationship.  The advice I always give is to dedicate yourself to learning and practicing the tools for several months and then reassess.  If you can master not JADEing, it will help reduce conflict a lot.  Once you've got a good start on that, we can introduce another tool.

Go up to the big green bar, click on "Tools," then click on "Ending Conflict."  That article is adapted from a great book which is referenced at the end.  Does that article seem helpful at all?

OK, so you've started a new cycle, marked by returning to your own bed.  Things should be relatively calm; a good time to practice your new skills.  So, come back and tell us the next time you hit an opportunity to JADE, and whether you manage to avoid it or fall into the trap.  I'm betting you'll have something to report rather quickly. 

WW