Help ...spending, impossible boundary situation

[StormySkies]

So... .I wasn't really sure how to title this .  

 My husband's "dream" has been to own a boat.    In the past he has enjoyed occasional fishing charter trips but that's about it.   He has a habit of buying things for the life he thinks he wants, to impress others, or maybe how he sees or wants to see himself?   There's at least a dozen tackle boxes and I counted 40+ fishing rods in the garage,  along with gear for camping, mountain biking, woodworking, hiking sticks etc... .  He never actually does any of these things though - he claims he doesn't even have any time for himself or time to do anything.  He does and I would be glad to see him engage in some of his self-proclaimed "hobbies" if just to make him a happier person and give me a little space !    

We recently bought a home with a three car garage ... .one year later and we can only fit one car in the garage,  the area that was to be his "workroom" where he could "get back into his woodworking"  is full of I don't even know what.  Mostly stuff he orders on Amazon.   I counted 10 coolers out there and yet here comes the UPS truck with a very large YETI cooler.    We have three weedeaters,  and two lawnmowers (he now wants a riding one,  we have a modest sized yard)

But the boat... .I have explained that I have NO INTEREST in "boating",  I get motion sickness, little tolerance for sun,  I fished as a child because going to the fishing cabin was our family vacation but I don't truly enjoy it,  I don't want to "drive around"  in the very crowded bay and gulf - boring!,  I know our child won't want to stay out there for hours and hours so he was be impatient and cruel to her,  or sulk because he have to go in, it's a very expensive hobby and I think we should find things that we all enjoy like taking road trips where we rent a cabin and he can fish (lots of cabins have boat rentals) but daughter and I can read, go for nature walks, horseback ride etc.  Also - him taking daughter out alone is out of the question. Lastly... . 

and this is a biggie for me... .I have recently started enforcing boundaries for the first time,  I have been leaving the room and the house if I have to when he becomes very verbally abusive.    But of course - on a boat - i have no way to get daughter and I away from him.

Two months ago - he took $12K out of our savings , got a cashiers check and forced me to go with him to a local boat dealership because they had a great deal, an amazing boat !   Once we were in the car - he sped very recklessly because we had to get there BEFORE THE BOAT WAS GONE!   It was a disaster,  the dealership was very dishonest and tried to hide some of the problems with the boat (some were very dangerous like a softspot in the floor right above the fuel tank which could if stepped on wrong could cause an explosion!)  He was still ready to buy the boat - like we HAD to leave with a boat then and there.  I put my foot down and said we weren't buying an unsafe boat.    He dysregulated really bad at the dealership,  screaming at the guy how dishonest he was etc... .it was really really bad,  I have never seen him act like with anyone but me.    We put the money back in the bank account... .

A few days later - he was calm and we had a talk.   I said I was willing to consider a boat but we needed to budget for it,  he agreed - we were on the waiting list for the military harbour and told it would take about 9 months to get docked there,  that way he could take the boat out alone when he wanted since he wouldn't need help launching and recovering in the water.   It would be already on the water tied at a slip.   I said - that I didn't think based on what we saw at the dealership 12K was enough to buy what he wanted so I said let's really buckle down and save over the nine months we are waiting for the slip and save up so we can spend 20K and get something nicer (safer!) .  Also - we both took some basic navigation course 15 years ago but neither of us has any boating experience.  He has leftover money on his GI BIll (Military education $) that he could use towards courses her to work towards a captain's license.   There are lots of places to rent boats here (Florida Gulf Coast) so we could try different boats to see what sort we want/need.   And - I would have all summer to get our 7yo  in advanced swim classes.  And also take someone who knew about boats to look at ones we might buy.   I even printed out a list of things to check when buying a boat.  I really thought we "had a plan"

He immediately went back to spending every spare minute looking at boat listings,  even on his phone while in the toilet.   And then two weeks later - took 8k out of the saving and bought a boat on his lunch hour because it was such a great deal.   He was taken very very badly.    

We went out on the boat twice,  both times were horrible - he nearly grounded it half a dozen times.  Screamed and cursed at me when launching and recovering because I didn't know how to do "anything right"  .  Screamed and cursed at me while on the boat.   And the second time,  dropped anchor in a barge lane to fish and barely got the engine started before a barge was on top of us.  We would have VERY easily all died.  I have never been so afraid in my life.

Then things began to break and leak on the boat so he spent every night til 10, 11 sometimes after midnight working on the boat during the week. He would come in , and demand I bring his supper to him on a plate on the boat in the driveway because he didn't have time to eat with us.  He took the week of daughters spring break off to work round the clock on the boat.  I ended up putting her in a camp instead of us taking a family trip like we had planned  Friday and Saturday nights - he often worked the WHOLE NIGHT thru.   The spedometer, the bilge pump, navigation equipment,  communication equipment,  motor,  leaks!  nothing worked on this f'ing thing.   Packages arrived daily from amazon - parts, then new toys for the boat.   I added it up - he spend 4K on Amazon on boat stuff and maybe a couple thousand more at the local marine supply store.  Periodically - over the last two months,  he would come in to curse and scream at me about how this was all my fault that he bought this boat.  that I MADE him buy this boat because I said we could not afford to spend 60K on a new boat,  he remembers nothing of our conversations to make this happen for him - my offers of compromise.   And heaven help daughter and I if he came in and we were doing anything fun while he was out working on the boat.  

Finally, after two and a half months of this monstrous behavior - he seemed reasonable.  He apologized and  said he had a made a mistake in buying this boat.  He was able to get the boat fixed and find a marine spot for it so daughter and I wouldnt have to go out in it.   Everything seemed ok finally.

Then he started talking about selling the boat to buy something bigger, nicer, etc...   And looking at ads again.   Today - he left work earlier to drive 2 hours away to look at another incredible deal.   He informed me this morning that he is taking 20K out of savings to buy this other boat  and then he will sell the first boat and recoup all his money.    

We sold our home last year and had 100K after paying all our bills,  he insisted he put zero down on our new home and guess what we are now down to 12K in savings after he buys the second boat.   We have a rental property in another state that we have 250K equity in and have been arguing on a regular basis about it.    He wants me to sell it so we can "invest the money" in a local property and not have to pay out of state taxes and property management fees... .It's getting really , really ugly but I don't dare let him have access to that money or it will be gone.   I'm just so tired of fighting,  Im close to breaking point

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[StormySkies]

Well, I guess he decided to buy the boat.  Gave me a slip of paper this morning and told me to add it to the insurance.  I feel so sick to my stomach - this completely wipes out our cash savings.  WWIII will break out again and he's (probably) cut my access to the bank account again so there's no way to keep him from withdrawing the money.   So we'll be back in credit card debt again, after I spent years scratching and clawing our way out - we have some upcoming expenses that can't be avoided.   A car with bald tires,  daughter needs dental work,  need to replace carseats that have been outgrown (not safe),  , etc... .

I feel like I'm in a rowboat frantically bailing with someone who sitting next to me and scooping up and pouring water back in the boat. 

[Tattered Heart]

I'm so sorry that this happened. I can imagine how extremely frustrating it is. It sounds like he has a hard time with delayed gratification.

Is your name on the title of either boat? Can you list the 2nd boat so you can get it sold ASAP to recoup some of the money?

Would it be possible to separate your money from his? Move some to an account he can't access?

[Insom]

Hi, StormySkies.  Have you had a chance to check out this bpdfamily article about Setting Boundaries and Setting Limits?  I've found it helpful and thought you might, too.  Setting Boundaries isn't easy, but it's a skill you can develop over time.  They're not about setting an ultimatum, but understanding your core values:

The Idea of "Setting Boundaries" is Misleading
The terminology of "setting boundaries" is misleading and often mistaken to mean "giving an ultimatum." It is true that issuing ultimatums can be part of this life skill and at times, very necessary, however it's only one aspect of this life skill.

When we speak of the boundaries we are really speaking about our personal values and our need to get them in focus and live with more conviction. This is a lifestyle, not a quick fix to an interpersonal squabble.

This is an important point that is often overlooked. 

It sounds like there are a few things going on you could use help with.

Do you know what your values are around personal safety? 

What do you value when it comes to your family's finances?

How would you like to be treated?  How did you feel when he demanded you bring him supper?  Did that behavior violate your values.  If so, in what way?


 

 










 

[StormySkies]

I'm so sorry that this happened. I can imagine how extremely frustrating it is. It sounds like he has a hard time with delayed gratification.

Is your name on the title of either boat? Can you list the 2nd boat so you can get it sold ASAP to recoup some of the money?

Would it be possible to separate your money from his? Move some to an account he can't access?

Yes, no ability for delayed gratification.    I'm a very careful shopper - I like to read reviews , comparision shop, buy things used or borrow them etc... .     It was horrible when we lived near a costco - I'd try and always go on the weekdays so he wouldn't throw $500 worth of extra stuff in the cart. 

One source of stress in our relationship is that he often pressures me to make snap decisions on big purchases. 

Like when we moved here - it was the off-season and I got us a furnished two room condo on the beach for five months at a very good price.    However,  he wanted to look at houses the week we got here and literally forced me to buy the first and only house we looked at - even though I only agreed to go out with the agent to get a "feel" for what our budget would allow.    But our house was such a deal!  We'd never find another like it, so perfect for our family even though it had NONE of the things I wanted (fireplace, gas appliances,  sidewalks for walking, younger neighborhood with kids,  oh - and a decent school).   

 Everytime we have to take a car to the dealership for a repair, there is the danger of coming home with a new car.   One time, we talked about how nice it was to not have any a car payment and the next day ,  end up have a screaming argument in front of a dealership salesperson because there is some not to be missed trade-in on the lot.  I thought we were there to take care of a minor recall on our vehicle.

My name is on neither boat - I have more of less refused to have anything to do with the boats.   He is planning on selling the first boat but I can't imagine we will get the 8K plus the 4 - 5K he put in  it back.   If he sells it for cash - who knows if I will see that money.  And it could take a long, long time to sell it - you can't swing a cat here in Florida with out someone having a boat to sell. 

I have no money that is mine.  Stupidly,  I have spent all the years after I left the military supporting his career.   Im nearing 50 and haven't worked since I was 27.   I now have a young daughter that I am a SAHM to.  I also , again stupidly, allowed him to talk me from moving to the rural South last year so opportunities here are very limited for employment.   My husband makes very good money and we have multiple income streams.  He never questions any money I spend - in part, I'm sure because I rarely buy anything extravagant.   He puts enough in retirement and funds my IRA annually,   he insists on carrying a crazy amount of life insurance on himself so daughter and I are taken care of.    I just wish he would make a plan, a budget instead of this all over the place stuff.  It feels like he avoids us having a large nest egg as a way to insure that there is never enough cash for me to take half and leave? 

[StormySkies]

Well, it's been a roller coaster week for sure.   Last week, we argued bitterly and then he took 20K and bought the boat.    He showed up at daughters school even, she was so excited to see him     Really, he was just there so we could swap vehicles (mine is the only one big enough to tow boat).    

 He was very, very nice to me for several days.   Roses and the whole bit.   Promised he would not spend money on more boat stuff and focus on getting the first boat sold before working on the new boat.  

Then - he hasn't done anything with the first boat,  and literally worked the whole night thru Tues night.  I asked him to come in at 10,  then again at midnight,  finally went to bed and woke up at 3:15.    He's still out there working on the new boat.   Came to bed at 2am last night.  

So this morning,  he asked for the check book sine he was going to DMV.   He asked me to look over the title,  and with a sinking feeling I pointed out that the owners wife had endorsed the back covers the tax issue but hadn't filled out the front part which transfers the ownership.    He wanted me to forge her name and became enraged when I refused to do so.  

That's when I realized his rages aren't as out of control as I might have thought.  

 Before all this boat nonsense,  I had ordered new bedroom furniture to replace the 25 year old set we have now.   Our current set is chipped and broken - it's been moved 15 times and it wasn't high quality to begin with.   I've also hated that there is a drawer the he broke in a rage some 15 years ago.  

I spent quite a bit of time researching the new set and getting the best price for it.   It should be here sometime next month.   The plan was to charge it and pay it off as soon as the bill came in but now - I've been thinking of cancelling the order,  esp since I added all the new charges this week and realized he had already ordered $700 worth of stuff for the new boat in the past five days!  

Anyway - when he was raging this morning,  I noticed he cast about looking for something,  then went to the dresser and began pounding the top with his fists.   It was clear, he looked for something to smash to frighten me and CHOSE the dresser because he thinks the new set is coming next month ... .He left for work very angry... .

The people he bought the boat from live several hours away.   He messaged me that he intended to drive there and back after work... .

me:  Maybe you could overnight it there and back via FedEx so you don't have to make the drive.

him: Can't need it tonight so I can get it registered and take it out this weekend.

I then asked him to come and swap his car out for my SUV since I wasn't going anywhere else today and it's a much more comfortable and safer car than his.  Plus I had just fueled it up.    I also pointed out how sleep deprived he is.   I always drive if we go any distance since he takes meds for his restless legs if he has to sit any amount of time and the meds make him very sleepy.    I offered to drive over for him since I actually enjoy long drives,  there were a few places I wanted to stop at along the way  and that I would take the dog with me as he also enjoys car rides... . but he insisted on doing it himself.