Running out of energy

[MotherWeasley]

I've been married for 15 years, and we have 4 children. Following a particularly distressing argument, I reached out to a good friend who has known me since before I was married, and works in the mental health field. She recommended the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells", and I have read it and "The Essential Family Guide to BPD". I found that the descriptions of behaviors in both books seemed to really fit my husband, so I came here for support. He has never been diagnosed with anything, although his PCP has treated him pharmacologically for depression and anxiety at various points.

I'm not really sure where to start, except to say that when we married, my husband was suffering through grief following the death of his mother to cancer. I attributed any and all depressed mood, irritability, lack of motivation, etc. to his grief. I was in grad school for nursing at the time, and he was studying to be a pharmacist. Over the years, his mood did improve, and we had a period of about 7 years when we fought very little, were both productive and active in our church and we were consumed with the joy of raising our small children (currently, the kids are aged 11, 9, 6 and 4).

About two years ago, we sold our house and moved overseas to Ireland. We didn't make as much in the sale of the house as my husband hoped, and that seemed to kick off the worst depression I've seen yet. He started drinking more than usual, and switched from beer to hard liquor. He was moody and angry much of the time. At that time, I told him that I couldn't fight with him for hours every night, and that I would move in with a friend until he was able to get mental health support. He accused me of abandoning him when he most needed me, but he agreed to get help so I stayed in the house we were renting with him and the kids.

Fast forward to present day, living with him and the kids in our new home in Ireland. He still drinks more than I'm comfortable with- but only in the evenings. He works hard at a job in Dublin, and engages with our local friends. However, he seems to have a chip on his shoulder against the church that we served while we were in America. He has some legitimate issues, but whenever he talks about people we knew before, it makes me feel almost defensive- because I still love those people and miss having them in my life.

Additionally, he has been fixated on his sexuality over the past few years. He claims that the church had "repressed" him because he didn't feel free to express the fullness of his own sexuality. He has tried to engage me in a variety of activities to "spice things up", but I find that I either find them upsetting, or they are simply not exciting to me. I'll spare you the details, but one of his major criticisms of me is that I "have no libido" or "am sexually dead". For reference, we have sex, on average, about 2-3 times a week. I consider this a major accomplishment because he is frequently critical, sarcastic or inattentive while we are together. When I share about our relationship with friends, they ask why I put up with him. However, if I so much as raise my voice to say that he has hurt me (feelings), or that I'm not interested in having sex, I usually have to endure 12-48 hours of moodiness, irritability and criticism.  
                     
So, I am hoping that this community will provide a better sounding board. Over the years, I was always able to "bounce back" quickly after we would argue. These days, I just feel disillusioned and empty. Having read the two books I mentioned, I am renewing my effort to use the "active listening" communication style promoted by the authors. But, really, I have been employing those methods all throughout our marriage. I always believed that, if I could just say the right thing, or love him well enough, he would realize that I'm not his enemy and then he'd treat me better and we could both be happy. These days, I'm focusing on what keeps me happy- but I am seriously so weary.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[juju2]

Welcome, you are in the right place
 

Sounds like there are different things going on.

This community is caring and has a lot of experience.

Did he get mental help, and did he get a diagnosis... .

Share as much or as little as you feel comfortable.

With healing, help, and hope
juju

[formflier]

I'm so pleased for you that you found us.  Your post sounds very well thought out for someone in such a distressing situation.  I believe that shows a lot of resilience and strength on your part.   

I'm positive we can help you move your family situation to a better place.  I'm positive we can help you understand some of the thought processes and emotional experiences that your husband is likely going through.

There are tried and true "strategies" and "rules" that if used consistently, will help reduce tension in the home.  Once tension is reduced, many times real problem solving can happen.

1.  Can you tell me more about the help you husband is getting?
2.  Is your husband a pharmacist?
3.  Are you getting any help or therapy?
4.  Are you still working as a nurse?

I'm sure there will be more questions later.  Looking forward to your responses.  You've found a safe place... .we can help.

FF

[MotherWeasley]

Thank you so much. I'll try to answer all of the questions in one post:
 
 1. My husband saw 2 different counselors for a period of about 3 months in the fall of 2016. He has not received any mental health diagnoses at this point. Every time I mention to him that I think he would benefit from some form of therapy, he says, "That's your answer for everything!"
 
2.  Is your husband a pharmacist? Yes, he is a pharmacist. He has worked in retail pharmacy over the past 12 years, he has moved into a research role since moving to Ireland.

3.  Are you getting any help or therapy? Yes. I am seeing a counselor locally. I can only afford (time and money) to see her every 2-3 weeks, but she really helps me re-frame things that are happening, and focus on how to communicate meeting my needs.

4.  Are you still working as a nurse? No. I am working in a research role, as well. I am not registered to practice in Ireland- but I would like to be at some point.

Thank you for taking the time to respond!

[Tattered Heart]

Welcome MotherWeasley

How amazing to move to Ireland. I've always wanted to visit. My dad's side of the family originates from Ireland and my maiden name is a very Irish maiden name but we dropped the O'. Sorry that the move has created so much stress for your family. Big changes like that can affect someone without mental illness pretty heavily. I can imagine how hard it would be on someone with BPD.

My H and I used to argue quite a bit about sex. Like your relationship we were having sex 2-3 times per week yet if I turned him down just once, it was him accusing me of wanting to be with other men, not enjoying sex with him, not loving him, etc. I changed the way I turned him down and suddenly sex isn't that important anymore.

What happened at your church that is causing him distress?

[MotherWeasley]

 I anticipated that the move would be very stressful. We have had a shared goal of moving overseas for over 5 years. Originally, we hoped that we would work with churches in the UK. To back up a bit, we both helped another couple start a church in Delaware. It was a deeply satisfying venture for both of us. My husband served as the worship leader (playing guitar and singing), and I led prayer ministry, taught and helped with kids' church. We both worked with the senior pastors of the church that sent us to start the church, and they helped to coach us through the work with the new church. After about 4 years, the lead couple, our dear friends, were just burned out by the ministry. We met and prayed and talked with our pastors and coaches, but ultimately they made the decision to close the church because it was just not sustainable as it was.

 When we went back to our "parent" church, my husband felt deflated and depressed for a long time. The church no longer had a place in it for us to minister, because over the 4 years that we had been gone, other leadership had been developed. It is logical, but it seemed to really bother my husband. I had learned over the years that small slights and perceived rejection really bothers him- and for a much longer time than it would bother me or other people. So, I tried to help him process his feelings and talk through the sense of rejection. We still went to church regularly until he got a job that required him to work every other Sunday. After that, he would often schedule something on Sundays when he was off, so we were only going once a month. I didn't mind, because I was still going to church with the kids every week.

 Our ultimate goal was to partner with a church in the UK and get involved in church leadership again. We traveled around England and Scotland, attended church conferences and made many friends. During that season, we also visited my friend from high school, who married a Brit, and introduced us to her friend. It was her friend who offered me the job in Ireland. When she offered me the job, it was after years of trying to get a Visa to move to the UK. Nothing was working, and my husband was giving up hope. I believe that God provided us the opportunity to move to Ireland because the door to the UK had been closed on us. However, by the time we moved over here, my husband was no longer interested in working with the church. We have friends in the church in Dublin who facilitated an internship for him, but he turned it down. Now that we are here, my husband has told me that he isn't really interested in going to church. I still try to go once or twice a month, but it has become an issue- something that we argue about- whereas we were in unity about church involvement when we first married. I have felt really confused, stressed and disappointed about his lack of involvement in faith, but I passionately believe that he deserves space to work out his own journey. I am trying to learn to make meeting my needs a priority, so I offered that I was willing to attend church on my own, or with the kids. However, my husband complained that he prefers to spend our weekends together. I feel like he is creating a "catch-22" where I cannot choose to attend church regularly without hurting his feelings.

 That may be too long of an answer, but it is one of the aspects of my husband's behavior that has been really distressing to me. Even now, 5 years after the closure of the  church we helped to start, my husband still wants to talk about the people in church leadership who didn't mentor him or provide a good ministry opportunity for him when we left. This is a common topic that he likes to discuss. It's stressful to me because the people he is complaining about have been like family to me over the years, and I do not feel wounded by them, but he is really looking for me to agree with him. The other day, he started to complain that nobody talks to him at the church we are (sometimes) attending here in Ireland, and I said to him (very calmly), "You are seldom ever there. Not very many people have had a chance to meet you." For once, he didn't have a snappy come back or criticism.

[formflier]

If he chooses to get his feelings hurt... regularly or not... .that is his choice.

You need to fulfill your obvious need and value of worship.

Keep the door open for him.

Should he decide to be willing to work and compromise in the future... .work with him then.

Should he choose to sit around and be hurt now... .that is his choice.


Big picture FF rule:  Don't save them from themselves... .

FF

[MotherWeasley]

Thanks for that reply, FF- it's a helpful reminder. I'm starting to learn to take care of myself, but I feel like I'm only starting to see the ways I've allowed myself to become enmeshed in my uBPDh's mental health.

A good example was last night when I got home from work and started cooking dinner. My husband got home from work early because the internet was out in his office, so he was sent home to get some work done. He collected the kids after school, and I met him at home after stopping to pick up groceries. While I was cooking, he said to me, "It looks like we will have another weekend where I won't see you at all." About a month ago, I scheduled myself to go for a 15 km walk to raise money for charity. I have been scheduling events like this since January because I find that hiking through nature is something that feeds me, one major thing I can do for my self care. We used to go as a family once a week, but when I try to suggest it, my husband isn't interested. So, I have been scheduling things for myself. I look forward to them for weeks. It's like I get to hit my reset button. I told him that I would be home all weekend except for during the walk on Saturday, and he reiterated that he feels like he never sees me. This is a common complaint that I am just not sure what to do with. I reassured him that I heard what he was saying, then asked what he would prefer in the future. He said he didn't know. He walked out of the room to get something, then when he came back in, he asked me if I had planned on a side dish with dinner. This is another common complaint of his. He has entirely left shopping, meal planning and food preparation up to me, but he reserves the right to "micromanage" my meal choices when he is in a bad mood. I said that I hadn't planned on a side dish as the meal was a one-pot meal that contained three vegetables along with meat and cheese. He told me, "This isn't like a unique thing to my family. It's expected for you to prepare a side dish with a meal." I didn't bother arguing, I just said that while I agreed with him, and typically do prepare a side dish, he had requested that I keep the shopping minimal as he has not gotten paid yet this month and funds are tight.
 The moment passed and no more was said about it. The whole family enjoyed the meal and life resumed. Then, today I mentioned to him over the phone that he could bring the kids to meet me at the end point of my walk and we could all hang out together. He said he doesn't know what he wants to do. I'm hoping that at least the fact that I addressed the issue again will show him that I hear him and I'm trying to meet him where he is- without giving up something that gives me life.
 Does anyone else have that experience, where something is bothering your SO, and in the middle of it, they start picking on you for something else that's totally unrelated? I remember one time we were literally fighting because I had squeezed toothpaste out of the tube from the middle, instead of starting at the end. I mean, I can't make this stuff up!

[formflier]

Ugg... .few thoughts.

"It looks like we will have another weekend where I won't see you at all."

This is not about the weekend plans... .it's about "abandonment".   So... I would recommend something like this.

stay friendly "Oh goodness babe... .how do you figure that?"  listen

Hey... .it looks like there is some time (note some times) where we can plan something.  I certainly would like to... .which would you prefer?"

Then... .perhaps a bit bemused after "he doesn't know"

"Ok... well... .I'd like you to pick which time you want.  I'm looking forward to it.  Please let me know."

go about your business.

  It's expected for you to prepare a side dish with a meal." I

I'm having to "talk myself down from this one."

Don't explain it... don't show him the veggies.

seriously

"I expect thanks and not complaints.  I worked really hard on this and your words hurt my feelings."

succinct... .then move along.  No more talk unless he wants to apologize... at least no more talk about food.

If he apologizes or makes any hint of an apology... take it and move on.  My guess is he doesn't apologize well.  Right?

FF

[formflier]

Listen... .I get it that much of this stuff could be new to you or seem counter-intuitive.

It might be best for you to take all this in for a while before trying to implement it.  Thoughts?

FF

[Tattered Heart]

Your story sounds very familiar to me. My H and I were both very actively involved in our previous church. I was in church leadership and he was in groups, served on the security team, and had some pretty good friendships starting to develop. Then our pastor stepped down and someone else took over. Their values did not align with ours so we left. My H has not gone back to church since, hates the idea of going to church, and rants about it quite often.

I think of someone with BPD, church and faith are hard. Being an active member requires getting into relationships with people. Relationships are hard and even harder for someone with BPD. Add in black and white thinking and they put extreme behavioral expectations on people in church, the possibility of idealizing the pastor, and the politics involved and it's explosive for someone with BPD.

It is important that you do continue to attend if it is important for you to do so.

In reading through your conversation with your H about the walk and dinner last night, we have a communication skill that might help you out quite a bit. It's called Don't JADE . We start to explain things to our pwBPD because our reasons make sense, but it just ends up angering them more.

My H often makes comments about not getting to spend time together. Usually this means that he is feeling overwhelmed with things that need to be done. A simple validation of the real feeling may help him feel listened to:

"I know it's important to you that we spend time together on the weekend. It's important to me too. I would absolutely love it if you would join me on the walk so we could spend time together but if not, that's ok too. I'll be home at X time and we can spend the rest of the evening together. Is there something special you would like to do when I get home?"

[formflier]

I think of someone with BPD, church and faith are hard. 

This is the understatement of the year. 

Religion and our apparently different approaches to it, is one of the main things currently "an issue" in my relationship with my wife.

Idealization of a church or church leader is absolutely what she does... .and it will go on for a long time, then ... ."poof"... .on to the next thing.

As far as how you address your husbands desire to spend time with you.

If you already have an activity planned... .I would certainly consider inviting him to that.  Such as... if you already planned to take a walk in the evening...

However, I would shy away from creating events to share with your husband, to help his "feelings".  Much better to let them solve it... let them create it... .etc etc.

Not a hard and fast rule... .but a general thing.  Many of us "nons" get in the habit of trying to "solve things" in order to "fix" their feelings... .that's a bad dynamic.

FF

[MotherWeasley]

Listen... .I get it that much of this stuff could be new to you or seem counter-intuitive.

It might be best for you to take all this in for a while before trying to implement it.  Thoughts?

FF

All of the suggestions have been really helpful- so thank you very much. I have tried on my own to not respond defensively, but then when I read back the transcript (so to speak- I'm not actually transcribing conversations, I just have a very good memory)- I can see that I do way too much JADE-ing. (Thank you so much, Tattered Heart, for linking to that article- it was super helpful!)

You both have given me some really good info to think about and process heading into this weekend. I've been trying to find workable conversation solutions for years, and we keep getting stuck in the same repeating patterns. I'm ready to try something different. I'm sure this will all take practice, but I can already see that I am better able to cope, and I am able to set limits around my own time that I never would have been able to do earlier in our marriage.

Recently, I have been feeling my mood dip when I head home on a Friday evening for a weekend of tiptoeing around my husband, and then I start to feel happier on Sunday evening as I prepare for a week at work where I mostly see the kids and my coworkers. I don't expect things to change over-night, but I really appreciate having concrete skills to work on that might make things better. I especially appreciate the ideas of different things to say. It really is counter-intuitive for me to just let the criticism go by without making some effort to prove my innocence. I'm shaking my head at myself now!

Thanks so much.

[MotherWeasley]

It is important that you do continue to attend if it is important for you to do so.

This is so true, and I appreciate you sharing your story, as it really resonates with my current experience. Last weekend, I even dreamed on Friday night that I was getting the kids ready for church to take them Sunday morning. When Sunday morning came, my husband was irritable and we argued briefly about going/not going to church. Long story short, somehow I allowed myself to get persuaded into staying home so we could talk. I sat down in the kitchen with him while he unloaded his list of grievances for the week. The fact that we were still talking/laughing by the end makes me feel like maybe I'm making progress at deescalating things. But, he told me about a racy dream he had the previous night (sex continues to be right at the top of his grievance list), and I started to cry, because the dream I had was about going to church. I told him, and he kind of just looked at me, dumbfounded. At least he knows it's a genuine priority for me.

I guess the way I feel right now is that I know that I have this need (going to church/ nurturing my faith)- but I hate that I have to overcome the obstacle of my husband's mood in order to fulfill my need. It's like waking up on a Sunday morning, and having to run through a thorny forest full of dark brambles before I even get the kids up, dressed and fed breakfast.

[formflier]

I've been trying to find workable conversation solutions for years, and we keep getting stuck in the same repeating patterns. I'm ready to try something different. 

Your issue and solution are right here.

While it would be great if the first "different" worked, most likely it won't... yet you will learn from it.

The most important things is not to repeat failed patterns.

Said another way, sometimes it's most important to figure out what you are NOT going to do... .then just let the rest happen from there.


FF