How can you be friends with feelings involved?

[Struggler123]

So my BPD ex is still trying to be friends with me, all while she claims that she loves me and im the only one for her. The twist comes in when she readily accepted to get married to someone else. She says shes trying to make this whole thing work as friends, and its my fault that i'm not even willing to try. I don't know whats right or wrong, but I told her I can't be friends with you while I still have feelings for you. And she said your not the only one that has feelings, I still feel the same about you, I love you, don't you ever miss me? She says that if I had asked her to marry her, she would never have been in this situation, but since I was never going to, she saw an opportunity and took it. 5 phone calls, 5 texts later, I started no contact , because it was the only way I knew how. And all readily, im more confused then ever, simply because after I posted a picture to instagram, she posted a picture of herself and wrote the caption "so its been confirmed with a ring emoji." I snapped and I deleted her everywhere from instagram, snapchat, everything and ever since that she would call me once a day, sometimes 3-5x. It's day 4 of no contact. Thoughts?

[once removed]

I snapped and I deleted her everywhere from instagram, snapchat, everything and ever since that she would call me once a day, sometimes 3-5x. It's day 4 of no contact. Thoughts?

sometimes slower, and more managed can work better to achieve your goals in detaching.

hard no contact and blocking tend to amp up feelings of anxiety on both sides, whoever initiates it. this is where the party on the receiving end (her in this case) may go to great lengths to be back in contact.

my advice would be to send a note (text of some form) saying you just need some space and time to heal. i wouldnt be specific about how long.

she may protest. she may call some more times. probably after that, things will die down, and you can get back to baseline, and make any decisions about whatever kind of relationship youre willing to have with her further down the road.

what do you think?

[Struggler123]

sometimes slower, and more managed can work better to achieve your goals in detaching.

hard no contact and blocking tend to amp up feelings of anxiety on both sides, whoever initiates it. this is where the party on the receiving end (her in this case) may go to great lengths to be back in contact.

my advice would be to send a note (text of some form) saying you just need some space and time to heal. i wouldnt be specific about how long.

she may protest. she may call some more times. probably after that, things will die down, and you can get back to baseline, and make any decisions about whatever kind of relationship youre willing to have with her further down the road.

what do you think?

I think that's a good idea, but I know that the minute I send a message like that shes going to want to come into contact and I won't be able to stop myself, everytime she does that, all the feelings come back and I can't help myself. A part of me sometimes wishes that this new guy really didn't exist, but then a part of me tells me if she could lie about this new guy, she could really manipulate me. I just can't seem to understand how, she puts it on me, I asked for your permission to marry this guy, what was I suppose to say in that kind of situation, like I can't marry you right now, but that means you shouldn't marry anyone else. I just feel beat up about it.

[once removed]

if you think you cant resist any contact, then it might be better to sleep on it for a while.

on the flipside, she may continue to contact you.

[Struggler123]

if you think you cant resist any contact, then it might be better to sleep on it for a while.

on the flipside, she may continue to contact you.

I'm  usually very good at self control but the truth is a part of me still wants to hold on even though theres nothing left to hold on to. I always tell my friends that you shouldn't be 2nd option and that what I feel like right now. I gave her everything I could, just couldn't marry her cause I wasn't ready. Now I feel bad because she tried every possible way to get me to marry her, and I didn't move an inch.

[Cromwell]

I'm  usually very good at self control but the truth is a part of me still wants to hold on even though theres nothing left to hold on to. I always tell my friends that you shouldn't be 2nd option and that what I feel like right now. I gave her everything I could, just couldn't marry her cause I wasn't ready. Now I feel bad because she tried every possible way to get me to marry her, and I didn't move an inch.

If I wouldnt have eventually trusted my very deep rooted, highly repressed intuition at the time, I would have given in and be married now and in a few months time - shudder to even imagine it - would be the "new years baby" that was planned. What made it uncomfortable amidst the joy that she accepted my proposal was that she threw in a condition that she would only marry me if I would have a child with her. Initially, that suited me fine as I felt more than happy about that and would have liked to regardless, but deep down it unsettled me the way she came out with it. Looking back, if I had gone fully along with everything my life right now would be an absolute living nightmare. I didnt know a thing about her, despite thinking I did, for 3 years. Ive read a lot of experiences here about pwBPD really pressurising for marriage but then it all falls apart because the engulfment kicks in.

When you mention that you feel you want to hold on but at the same time realise theres nothing to hold on to. Maybe this is something to try and explore a bit deeper as to whether there actually might be something you want to hold on to. I had the same feeling during the course of my R/s yet there was this huge feeling of not being able to detach and I couldnt put my finger on it, why. I realise it now one of the major reasons is that my ex induced a feeling in me that she couldnt cope without me in her life. That it would make me guilty to leave someone who i perceived as so helpless and vulnerable. Is there maybe any evidence of this about how you feel? Just suggesting because it took me awhile to recognise how deep rooted that feeling was.

[Struggler123]

If I wouldnt have eventually trusted my very deep rooted, highly repressed intuition at the time, I would have given in and be married now and in a few months time - shudder to even imagine it - would be the "new years baby" that was planned. What made it uncomfortable amidst the joy that she accepted my proposal was that she threw in a condition that she would only marry me if I would have a child with her. Initially, that suited me fine as I felt more than happy about that and would have liked to regardless, but deep down it unsettled me the way she came out with it. Looking back, if I had gone fully along with everything my life right now would be an absolute living nightmare. I didnt know a thing about her, despite thinking I did, for 3 years. Ive read a lot of experiences here about pwBPD really pressurising for marriage but then it all falls apart because the engulfment kicks in.

When you mention that you feel you want to hold on but at the same time realise theres nothing to hold on to. Maybe this is something to try and explore a bit deeper as to whether there actually might be something you want to hold on to. I had the same feeling during the course of my R/s yet there was this huge feeling of not being able to detach and I couldnt put my finger on it, why. I realise it now one of the major reasons is that my ex induced a feeling in me that she couldnt cope without me in her life. That it would make me guilty to leave someone who i perceived as so helpless and vulnerable. Is there maybe any evidence of this about how you feel? Just suggesting because it took me awhile to recognise how deep rooted that feeling was.

I think part of the problem is that, I really thought I could fix everything, and a part of me was denying that she had BPD. I read about all the symptoms the 5-6th time we broke up, after that I started keeping a guard up because I was lost. How could someone just suddenly keep breaking up with you on and off, testing waters. At that point, I went no contact for 2 months, during this time she wrote me letters, and even flew in to see me, and I'd be lying if I didn't say it was the best 2 weeks I ever had. Yes, she had her anger moments but she never yelled at me, or anything too extreme. She would just show me an attitude if things didn't go her way.  I think part of the problem is that I thought that if I was still in relationship with her, I could somehow make her feel better and be what she wants me to be. She told me she went to therapists to get help for "her depression" but no one wanted to help. I think I feel responsible simply because she told me give me some sort of commitment, either we're back together, or something but don't keep in this area of not friends and not anything more. But I didn't think that she would suddenly say yes to getting married to someone else, simply because it was an arranged option because of it.  I guess that's the reason I feel like i'm still holding on because a part of me wants to believe that all of this isn't true, and that maybe we could be together again and take it step by step.

[Cromwell]

Dealing with her depression is treating the symptom and not the cause, it really is futile. The cause is BPD, but then you have to look further and realise just what exactly caused the BPD and how can this be changed. Do you think this is something you are able to do? If the answer is no, then even with the best will in the world, there is not going to be any progress and theres nothing to feel at fault for this. If the answer is that - maybe (its not a guarantee) that assisting her into engaging in some very specialised therapy, for a long period of time, is the only known way - well you would have to go through that alongside the push/pull and other dynamics with her until she may or may not eventually recover.

When I came to recognise this it made me realise that whilst I admired how good my intentions were, I had monumentally underestimated just how serious this condition is and how stacked the statistics are against achieving the challenge I took on board. For all the research ive done, stories I have read, a story of a pwBPD fully recovering after therapy is miniscule. Someone else might be more privvy to the actual statistics but for those that even avail themselves of this option as well as cooperate and comply with it through until recovery is reached, these really are huge odds you would be having to challenge yourself to support her with it.

This isnt about "giving up on someone" it is facing some real facts about the situation. Something I never did but wish I had.

[Struggler123]

Dealing with her depression is treating the symptom and not the cause, it really is futile. The cause is BPD, but then you have to look further and realise just what exactly caused the BPD and how can this be changed. Do you think this is something you are able to do? If the answer is no, then even with the best will in the world, there is not going to be any progress and theres nothing to feel at fault for this. If the answer is that - maybe (its not a guarantee) that assisting her into engaging in some very specialised therapy, for a long period of time, is the only known way - well you would have to go through that alongside the push/pull and other dynamics with her until she may or may not eventually recover.

When I came to recognise this it made me realise that whilst I admired how good my intentions were, I had monumentally underestimated just how serious this condition is and how stacked the statistics are against achieving the challenge I took on board. For all the research ive done, stories I have read, a story of a pwBPD fully recovering after therapy is miniscule. Someone else might be more privvy to the actual statistics but for those that even avail themselves of this option as well as cooperate and comply with it through until recovery is reached, these really are huge odds you would be having to challenge yourself to support her with it.

This isnt about "giving up on someone" it is facing some real facts about the situation. Something I never did but wish I had.

The truth is, even with the best therapy, the results and stats are not the greatest. I agree on that completely, and the truth is that I could have tried everything but at the end of the day, I can only show her the way, she has the one that has to walk through it. After reading what you said, I think what I realized the most is that, its not my fault, I tried the best I could and maybe this was the best thing for the both of us. I remember all the good things she did for me, but I didn't remember all the times I was good to her as well. I remember a real good friend telling me, don't try to clean up the mess in someone elses yard, until you clean up the mess in your backyard. I just sometimes wish that her feelings didn't change so constantly, I know this isn't the topic of discussion, but I need your opinion or anyone else's opinion on this because I feel like my thinking is a bit blurred.


1)If I were to marry her, would it have changed any of the circumstances, would it have made her symptoms and the breaking up die down a little?

2)Was I wrong, for asking her to give me time to have my life in order, and that I couldn't base my life based on a 1 year relationship.

3)Why is she constantly rubbing the new guy in my face (she says doesn't mean to) but telling me all about how he reminds her of me, pictures with captions such as blessed e.tc.

At first I was trying to provide her closure, but now I just want to make myself feel better, and I know you guys don't have the answers but any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you so much for all your help. I know you guys have so much else on your plate.

[once removed]

1)If I were to marry her, would it have changed any of the circumstances, would it have made her symptoms and the breaking up die down a little?

this really isnt a yes or no answer. someone with deep insecurities (would you describe her that way?) may see a quick press for marriage as a solution. typically, it is not. does it fix symptoms of a personality disorder? no. would it have provided the security she needed? its possible. its not really possible to say.

marriage is a huge change for a relationship, that cant be overstated. your relationship would have been "different". better, worse, or even both, who can say?

i think that it will help to look at this as a difference in values. and when thats the case, if that difference has a wide enough gulf, usually other problems follow. you both wanted different things. you broke up over it. it happens.

you have touched on some cultural aspects that are important to consider here. it may be less a "BPD thing" and more that she may come from a culture where a quick courtship and quick marriage are expected, and she feels that pressure. thats not for you, or not sufficient reason for you to make that kind of commitment that quickly. thats okay too.

2)Was I wrong, for asking her to give me time to have my life in order, and that I couldn't base my life based on a 1 year relationship.

no. this is a deeply held belief of yours. where many of us went wrong was in doing the opposite.

3)Why is she constantly rubbing the new guy in my face (she says doesn't mean to) but telling me all about how he reminds her of me, pictures with captions such as blessed e.tc.

id take her at face value when she says she doesnt mean to. she doesnt have a real sense of how it affects you or the inappropriateness of it. she may have poor people skills. she may simply not get it (obviously).

[Struggler123]

this really isnt a yes or no answer. someone with deep insecurities (would you describe her that way?) may see a quick press for marriage as a solution. typically, it is not. does it fix symptoms of a personality disorder? no. would it have provided the security she needed? its possible. its not really possible to say.

marriage is a huge change for a relationship, that cant be overstated. your relationship would have been "different". better, worse, or even both, who can say?

i think that it will help to look at this as a difference in values. and when thats the case, if that difference has a wide enough gulf, usually other problems follow. you both wanted different things. you broke up over it. it happens.

you have touched on some cultural aspects that are important to consider here. it may be less a "BPD thing" and more that she may come from a culture where a quick courtship and quick marriage are expected, and she feels that pressure. thats not for you, or not sufficient reason for you to make that kind of commitment that quickly. thats okay too.

no. this is a deeply held belief of yours. where many of us went wrong was in doing the opposite.

id take her at face value when she says she doesnt mean to. she doesnt have a real sense of how it affects you or the inappropriateness of it. she may have poor people skills. she may simply not get it (obviously).

Thank you so much for helping me, and answering everything that I was trying to figure out. At first I was thinking that maybe it was a manipulative technique, in order to get me to cave in and marry her. But I really hope that's not the case, because then if this guy exists its gonna be a disaster.  But yeah I suppose it could be like that, I guess I am just a bit hurt because  a part of me still wants to fix things, and now its too late, before this whole arranged marriage thing, she was willing to make it work even as a relationship, but by the time I realized what I wanted it was too late, and I guess thats the regret that I have.

[tlc232]

Struggler 123 --

Think of it this way --- you do realize what you have been through and have come to terms with the path you are on now.   Think about the guy she says she is marrying... .while she is talking to you about wishing that you both would be back together.     Do you really want to be in that guy's shoes either?    I'm sure he clueless to the fact she is talking to you about a possible future while getting married to him.   Talk about manipulation and issues.   I would look at that as "option 2" and honestly don't see either as a happy path for you for the future.   

Just a thought ---

[Struggler123]

Struggler 123 --

Think of it this way --- you do realize what you have been through and have come to terms with the path you are on now.   Think about the guy she says she is marrying... .while she is talking to you about wishing that you both would be back together.     :)o you really want to be in that guy's shoes either?    I'm sure he clueless to the fact she is talking to you about a possible future while getting married to him.   Talk about manipulation and issues.   I would look at that as "option 2" and honestly don't see either as a happy path for you for the future.   

Just a thought ---

That was a big eye opener for me, here I am just reminiscing into what I did wrong. I like the way you put it, only hard part now is telling myself that to really believe that. Because at the end of the day, I have to understand that we weren't good for each other, and maybe some day I can understand that it was at this moment, I felt free. I told her the same thing that the minute she said yes to this guy, she should have known that there was no room left for me, as friends or as anything, because the gap that it left in me, you tried to replace it with someone else as soon as possible, and no friend does that. I remember her asking me if she should say yes to this guy 3 hours before, and the same night she said yes. People ask for our opinion but ultimately make the choice that they want, and I feel like she made hers, and now it's time for me to make mine, despite how hard it is. Thoughts?

[tlc232]

That was a big eye opener for me, here I am just reminiscing into what I did wrong. I like the way you put it, only hard part now is telling myself that to really believe that. Because at the end of the day, I have to understand that we weren't good for each other, and maybe some day I can understand that it was at this moment, I felt free.

Without oversimplifying a very complex issue (I feel for you --- I spent 14 years with a person who got worse... .not better over the years, and he is "textbook" ---- you just said "I felt free".   

Free of what?   I think I already know the answer because I spent those 14 years also with a BPD.   They want to be a victim - of everything.   Of you (everything is always wrong with you), of the chaos they create themselves, of anything and everything.   Free of the guilt of wanting a normal life and not being manipulated by someone who continuously (plays) victim?

Here's where I am --- it is hard for me too.   If I don't make a change, I will never know what could have been.   I already know where I came from.   The only chance for happiness is with change -- hard or not.

Try no contact --- you'll be amazed how much you like yourself again and with time, and the decision is easier to see.
 

[Struggler123]

Without oversimplifying a very complex issue (I feel for you --- I spent 14 years with a person who got worse... .not better over the years, and he is "textbook" ---- you just said "I felt free".   

Free of what?   I think I already know the answer because I spent those 14 years also with a BPD.   They want to be a victim - of everything.   Of you (everything is always wrong with you), of the chaos they create themselves, of anything and everything.   Free of the guilt of wanting a normal life and not being manipulated by someone who continuously (plays) victim?

Here's where I am --- it is hard for me too.   If I don't make a change, I will never know what could have been.   I already know where I came from.   The only chance for happiness is with change -- hard or not.

Try no contact --- you'll be amazed how much you like yourself again and with time, and the decision is easier to see.
 

I’m so sorry I can only imagine how hard its been for you, I didn’t know about any of this prior and I was only able to understand when some friends pointed out some behavoiral abnormalities. In no way, do I blame her don’t get me wrong, but a part of me wasn’t ready to let go as abruptly as it had occurred. But, your right, I am slowly beginning to feel like myself again little by little. But yes at times I do remember all the photographs, letters, and the way she made me feel. But the truth is, no one should have to walk on egg shells when all we’ve tried to do is give them everything they felt was taken away from them. I still remember how my ex told me that I need to get help, because my tone was disrespectful, when this same purpose told me I’m a loser who can’t stand up for himself and ask a girl to marry him, because hes afraid and not courageous enough. If you don’t mind me asking, after spending those 14 years, what are your regrets? Or is there anything you would have to like to change. I apologize, if this is personal, but I would really like to hear your take on it.

[once removed]

I guess I am just a bit hurt because  a part of me still wants to fix things, and now its too late, before this whole arranged marriage thing, she was willing to make it work even as a relationship, but by the time I realized what I wanted it was too late, and I guess thats the regret that I have

this is exceedingly hard, Struggler123. you really loved this girl. you may feel like the rugs been pulled out from under you, and certainly, you were blindsided with pretty surreal news. and with all of that in mind, its natural that you would be experiencing some doubts, regrets, and what ifs. i had a lot of them myself. at the time, my resolve, would last all of a few minutes.

its going to take some grieving. its going to take some healing.  with healing, things will sort themselves out.

[Struggler123]

this is exceedingly hard, Struggler123. you really loved this girl. you may feel like the rugs been pulled out from under you, and certainly, you were blindsided with pretty surreal news. and with all of that in mind, its natural that you would be experiencing some doubts, regrets, and what ifs. i had a lot of them myself. at the time, my resolve, would last all of a few minutes.

its going to take some grieving. its going to take some healing.  with healing, things will sort themselves out.

I think part of the problem was admitting that I did, because after we broke up numerous times, I didn't want to admit to her anymore, and she noticed it. I remember her saying will you ever say i love you again, and I really thought that once things got better between us, we could work on it you know. I remember her giving me ultimatums for marriage, but I just saw them as mere threats that come and go, just like her mood swings. I honestly don't know what I was expecting, but I was just trying to buy some time, but at the same time she wanted a commitment that meant like 100% surety and things get complicated when you bring marriage and families into perspective. I guess when she exhausted all resources, she thought I wasn't going to be back anytime soon so let me just settle. I suppose the idea of someone wanting you, was actually very appealing and the amount of attention that came with it was indescribable but on the far end of the stick, there was the clinginess, the idea of me solving all problems, putting my needs after her needs. I remember telling her, why would you ask for my permission to marry someone else, and at that point I kind of knew it was over. I think part of the healing process is accepting that, I couldn't change the turn of events, had I married her, I would not have been able to fulfill the emptiness she feels and I don't want to be friends with her because I don't want want to be reminded of what could have been, I wish her the best but its wrong for her to expect me to drown with her when i'm barely reaching the shore.

[Struggler123]

How do you guys obtain self-control, before she was the one initiating contact, and now that she stopped, I feel weak and I want to tell her everything I feel but, I just feel like its gonna make a mess.

[Cromwell]

How do you guys obtain self-control, before she was the one initiating contact, and now that she stopped, I feel weak and I want to tell her everything I feel but, I just feel like its gonna make a mess.

I suppose that is a very valid risk, if the intent is to offload your feelings in the hope they will be understood by her and that some mutual understanding is reached that leads to a positive solution, that would be ideal. But then there is the risk that it has the opposite effect and will only result in more anguish instead. the self control I have is because of my intuition and knowledge that i am dealing with a person that by the nature of their condition, has a propensity to dysregulate with ease and I dont want to experience the outfall of that again. But more then that it is because I made myself an indelible promise that regardless of anything, even if this person would go through therapy and make a full recovery, I made an absolute contract with myself that I wont ever communicate with her again and in doing so, It makes it very simple and easy for me.

It helps because just how in the relationship I went "all in" and id describe my self as someone who doesnt hold back, its all or nothing for many aspects of my life. Ive used this personality trait towards NC and this makes self control very easy. I guess it is almost the equivalent if you look towards the concept of "painting someone either white or black" except ive went a step beyond that in that I wont ever regulate my decision after any period of time; its fanatical, its absolute, but its a tool that was appropiate to get the job done where I felt any other option wouldnt.

[once removed]

How do you guys obtain self-control, before she was the one initiating contact, and now that she stopped, I feel weak and I want to tell her everything I feel but, I just feel like its gonna make a mess.

its an impulse.

i dealt with it (actually, my loved ones helped me deal with it) by reminding myself that i could do all of this, say what i wanted to say, talk to her, whatever, any time i wanted. but that now was not the time.

i slept on it. i delayed gratification. in some cases, i did it several times.

and what ive come to learn is that once you master that, it will get easier for the rest of your life.

i heard a psychology trick once that i find very similar. say youre trying to eat healthier, and you get a craving for some french fries, or some ice cream. dont tell yourself "no". youll feel worse, and it has a depressive effect. tell yourself "later". youll believe it. and then usually when later comes, you wont want it, and youll pass.

tell yourself "later". sleep on it. it will pass.

[tlc232]

... .But, your right, I am slowly beginning to feel like myself again little by little. But yes at times I do remember all the photographs, letters, and the way she made me feel. But the truth is, no one should have to walk on egg shells when all we’ve tried to do is give them everything they felt was taken away from them. I still remember how my ex told me that I need to get help, because my tone was disrespectful, when this same purpose told me I’m a loser who can’t stand up for himself and ask a girl to marry him, because hes afraid and not courageous enough. If you don’t mind me asking, after spending those 14 years, what are your regrets? Or is there anything you would have to like to change. I apologize, if this is personal, but I would really like to hear your take on it.

Aaahhh... .the "you need to get help" line.   I am sure many (many) of us have heard that.   He was as deflective as a teflon pan (and I secretly called him "Teflon John"!).   And in no way do I assume that your situation is the same as mine other than the likely characteristics of your significant other with BPD.   What I am hearing you say is that there was no making her happy.    If you said yes - she thought you should have said "no".   If you said "no", well why didn't you say "yes"?    It got to a point where I even tried the opposite approach (doing what I didn't want to solicit the response opposite)... .and it worked, until I seemed okay with the result, and then it was wrong.   That wears you down... .and depresses you... .and hurts your self esteem... .  and the person who should be doing the opposite feels victorious.    Who wants to live like that?   It's a control mechanism in my mind. 

What would I have changed -- easy... .to have walked away instead of trying to be that little hamster on a wheel that never goes anywhere and never gets to the reward.   I alienated family to some degree and friends (so suspicious of friends!) and worked my tail off because there was never enough of anything to make up for how horribly he (in his mind) was treated.   So it became isolating.   All holidays and stressful situations were met with someone who always went off the deep end for no reason at all (the really deep end)... .  and I lived for 14 years with a person who always answered "no you don't" to any compliment provided (think "I love you!".   

When I write it out --- it looks even worse!    I could have spent that time with someone I enjoyed life with, but instead I felt guilty for leaving this poor man who had so much bad luck all his life, so I stayed.   I went from feeling empathy (because they do "act" caring), to working my fingers to the bone to do more, to pure depression.    The anger was off the charts and got worse over the years.    So change --- I'd have walked away early and taken back the wasted time.   Maybe that's why I may come across harsh on the topic, but my mantra is to be treated the same way you treat people.   If you aren't feeling that... .something is wrong.     

There is a great BPD booklet on this site --- did you read through that?  Let me get the link... .   

[tlc232]

If you haven't seen this one --- worth the read... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=37613.0

See Lesson 2 --- it does show that you both do not likely think alike and are having two different relationships.   

[Struggler123]

I suppose that is a very valid risk, if the intent is to offload your feelings in the hope they will be understood by her and that some mutual understanding is reached that leads to a positive solution, that would be ideal. But then there is the risk that it has the opposite effect and will only result in more anguish instead. the self control I have is because of my intuition and knowledge that i am dealing with a person that by the nature of their condition, has a propensity to dysregulate with ease and I dont want to experience the outfall of that again. But more then that it is because I made myself an indelible promise that regardless of anything, even if this person would go through therapy and make a full recovery, I made an absolute contract with myself that I wont ever communicate with her again and in doing so, It makes it very simple and easy for me.

It helps because just how in the relationship I went "all in" and id describe my self as someone who doesnt hold back, its all or nothing for many aspects of my life. Ive used this personality trait towards NC and this makes self control very easy. I guess it is almost the equivalent if you look towards the concept of "painting someone either white or black" except ive went a step beyond that in that I wont ever regulate my decision after any period of time; its fanatical, its absolute, but its a tool that was appropiate to get the job done where I felt any other option wouldnt.

I honestly respect the way you handled it, simply because you didnt let it consume you, I too am a follower of the all or nothing principle. Only problem is, after I met her I bent a lot of my all or nothing principles, and began to settle because the happy times made it seem like it couldn't get better than this, but I'm slowly trying to understand myself, and hopefully she does get better, because I know she has a lot of potential. I think its almost as if you give and give, and then that one thing you put a delay on is the one that people tend to use against you the most.

its an impulse.

i dealt with it (actually, my loved ones helped me deal with it) by reminding myself that i could do all of this, say what i wanted to say, talk to her, whatever, any time i wanted. but that now was not the time.

i slept on it. i delayed gratification. in some cases, i did it several times.

and what ive come to learn is that once you master that, it will get easier for the rest of your life.

i heard a psychology trick once that i find very similar. say youre trying to eat healthier, and you get a craving for some french fries, or some ice cream. dont tell yourself "no". youll feel worse, and it has a depressive effect. tell yourself "later". youll believe it. and then usually when later comes, you wont want it, and youll pass.

tell yourself "later". sleep on it. it will pass.

I think thats a fantastic way to control the impulses, because I tend to do that when I study to motivate myself, I never thought it could be used for other things as well. I suppose the first few days are always rough its been 5 days so its still a fresh wound, but I'm hoping for the best, trying to get myself together again. The biggest problem I feel like I've encountered is that, when they show empathy and all this care in the world, I want to believe it I really do, but something just didn't feel right. It just felt like it was pressured. I really appreciate you guys, taking out time from your busy lives, to help me out. I think we find resolutions in numerous ways, therapy is one way, but I find talking about it to people that have understood the circumstances the best way.

Aaahhh... .the "you need to get help" line.   I am sure many (many) of us have heard that.   He was as deflective as a teflon pan (and I secretly called him "Teflon John"!).   And in no way do I assume that your situation is the same as mine other than the likely characteristics of your significant other with BPD.   What I am hearing you say is that there was no making her happy.    If you said yes - she thought you should have said "no".   If you said "no", well why didn't you say "yes"?    It got to a point where I even tried the opposite approach (doing what I didn't want to solicit the response opposite)... .and it worked, until I seemed okay with the result, and then it was wrong.   That wears you down... .and depresses you... .and hurts your self esteem... .  and the person who should be doing the opposite feels victorious.    Who wants to live like that?   It's a control mechanism in my mind. 

What would I have changed -- easy... .to have walked away instead of trying to be that little hamster on a wheel that never goes anywhere and never gets to the reward.   I alienated family to some degree and friends (so suspicious of friends!) and worked my tail off because there was never enough of anything to make up for how horribly he (in his mind) was treated.   So it became isolating.   All holidays and stressful situations were met with someone who always went off the deep end for no reason at all (the really deep end)... .  and I lived for 14 years with a person who always answered "no you don't" to any compliment provided (think "I love you!".   

When I write it out --- it looks even worse!    I could have spent that time with someone I enjoyed life with, but instead I felt guilty for leaving this poor man who had so much bad luck all his life, so I stayed.   I went from feeling empathy (because they do "act" caring), to working my fingers to the bone to do more, to pure depression.    The anger was off the charts and got worse over the years.    So change --- I'd have walked away early and taken back the wasted time.   Maybe that's why I may come across harsh on the topic, but my mantra is to be treated the same way you treat people.   If you aren't feeling that... .something is wrong.     

There is a great BPD booklet on this site --- did you read through that?  Let me get the link... .   

Honestly, your very strong and you give me hope. I feel all of us go through numerous struggles in life, and no battle is the same. But to be able to face it and still come out of it feeling stronger, thats amazing. I certainly do agree with everything you said honestly I did not have it nearly as bad, and i'm grateful for that. Simply because most of the time we were long distance, and I suppose thats why it kept things control for a bit. I remember my friends asking me why I'm always on the phone and how come I never get any space, and I remember telling them oh its cause she cares a lot, but looking back at it, i'm sure she did at a given point in time, but if I didn't pick up her phone calls, the anger was real too. Then with time, I was able to teach her the whole idea of hey if I don't pick up trust me I'm right here and I'll call you as soon as I get a chance, I remember telling her I needed time for marriage, and initially she was supportive, but then it reached a controlling phase, with crying, manipulation, threats, and eventually, she came to me and then asked me if I'd be okay with this, and I remember she said yes to him 3 hours after I told her, "If he can keep you happy, and you think this is the best it will ever be, say yes." At first I thought, maybe if I said no, it would change circumstances but the truth is, she had already made up her mind by the time she asked me, no matter what I would have said, she still would have done what SHE wanted. I suppose thats how it works with them. Thoughts? I apologize for the long post.

[Struggler123]

If you haven't seen this one --- worth the read... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=37613.0

See Lesson 2 --- it does show that you both do not likely think alike and are having two different relationships.   

Thank you for the article, I will be reading about it now, just so I can understand myself better, and understand why its affected me in the way that it did. I usually bounce back quickly, but this was something out of the ordinary, and I suppose I am lucky that no kids, marriage, or commitment was involved.

[tlc232]

Honestly, your very strong and you give me hope. I feel all of us go through numerous struggles in life, and no battle is the same. But to be able to face it and still come out of it feeling stronger, thats amazing. I certainly do agree with everything you said honestly I did not have it nearly as bad, and i'm grateful for that. Simply because most of the time we were long distance, and I suppose thats why it kept things control for a bit. I remember my friends asking me why I'm always on the phone and how come I never get any space, and I remember telling them oh its cause she cares a lot, but looking back at it, i'm sure she did at a given point in time, but if I didn't pick up her phone calls, the anger was real too. Then with time, I was able to teach her the whole idea of hey if I don't pick up trust me I'm right here and I'll call you as soon as I get a chance, I remember telling her I needed time for marriage, and initially she was supportive, but then it reached a controlling phase, with crying, manipulation, threats, and eventually, she came to me and then asked me if I'd be okay with this, and I remember she said yes to him 3 hours after I told her, "If he can keep you happy, and you think this is the best it will ever be, say yes." At first I thought, maybe if I said no, it would change circumstances but the truth is, she had already made up her mind by the time she asked me, no matter what I would have said, she still would have done what SHE wanted. I suppose thats how it works with them. Thoughts? I apologize for the long post.

Struggles --- absolutely.   Life is hard enough without having to fight for two people!   Trust me -- I am here for answers too, and sharing info... .and thoughts.   So I gave up a lot of time, but I also figured out what I DON'T want.    I was married prior to this relationship, but my husband died young (illness)... .so I do know what more "normal" is.  It's hard not to expect that and to see these relationships for what they really are. 

Here's the kicker -- they will never be happy.  That's part of the cruelty of this whole thing.   You can do SO much and they will never really be happy.   They may act happy in the early elation part, but it doesn't stick. It isn't because you don't do the right things (like in a normal relationship), it's because they don't see what you do the same way that normal people do.    When they don't feel like you do enough (which I have read countless times on the forum) or truly love them the way they feel they deserve to be loved... .they go looking for it somewhere else because you are a bad person and you let them down.     

In my humble opinion --- she didn't ask you these questions (who asks their ex if they should marry someone else?) to give you closure or a chance... .she was likely (my opinion) feeding her ego and trying to make you think you should try harder.  Compete more... .  I don't see anyone winning in that.   

I have a wonderful therapist -- occasionally she has said things like "I'm sorry, but is he incompetent?" because when you don't put the person in the context of the disease, it does look pretty crazy what many of us deal with and we still run to fix things and save them, because that is the expectation -- to be their white knight.   Like in your instance trying to fix her decision to make sure for her.   Maybe think about how to look out for YOU first?   You, like many of us here, sound like you deserve someone who sees all that you really are.   They are out there, but we can't find them if we are mired in this tumultuous relationship we've been caught in.   

[Struggler123]

Struggles --- absolutely.   Life is hard enough without having to fight for two people!   Trust me -- I am here for answers too, and sharing info... .and thoughts.   So I gave up a lot of time, but I also figured out what I DON'T want.    I was married prior to this relationship, but my husband died young (illness)... .so I do know what more "normal" is.  It's hard not to expect that and to see these relationships for what they really are. 

Here's the kicker -- they will never be happy.  That's part of the cruelty of this whole thing.   You can do SO much and they will never really be happy.   They may act happy in the early elation part, but it doesn't stick. It isn't because you don't do the right things (like in a normal relationship), it's because they don't see what you do the same way that normal people do.    When they don't feel like you do enough (which I have read countless times on the forum) or truly love them the way they feel they deserve to be loved... .they go looking for it somewhere else because you are a bad person and you let them down.     

In my humble opinion --- she didn't ask you these questions (who asks their ex if they should marry someone else?) to give you closure or a chance... .she was likely (my opinion) feeding her ego and trying to make you think you should try harder.  Compete more... .  I don't see anyone winning in that.   

I have a wonderful therapist -- occasionally she has said things like "I'm sorry, but is he incompetent?" because when you don't put the person in the context of the disease, it does look pretty crazy what many of us deal with and we still run to fix things and save them, because that is the expectation -- to be their white knight.   Like in your instance trying to fix her decision to make sure for her.   Maybe think about how to look out for YOU first?   You, like many of us here, sound like you deserve someone who sees all that you really are.   They are out there, but we can't find them if we are mired in this tumultuous relationship we've been caught in.   

I'm really impressed by the way you've accomplished so much. And to be able to talk about it, is absolutely remarkable.  I'm really sorry for all the struggles you have been, and you should have been treated better, just like everyone of us. That's absolutely true, I remember if she wanted something I would give her that and plus something extra just because  I never wanted her to feel that I was not doing enough. Looking back at it, I was willing to argue with everyone that would say something negative about her, but it just got hard when she wanted me to display her everywhere on social media and honestly im not big on social media because I feel like it creates unnecessary drama on top of what I had going on with her. There was always one thing that would constantly be a problem at all times.  Honestly, I wouldn't doubt your opinion even for a second because the same very moment, I told her that I was not trying to compete with anyone else, I meant what I said that I was not getting married for a while because I need to get my life in order, and I still stick to that perspective, but she knew that I get jealous eventually and I suppose she took full advantage of that. Sometimes I feel like even this new guy is supposedly all a fabricated game, just to show that I was not able to care into all the needs she had, but I can be on the sidelines. I'm glad your therapist was able to allow you to get through all of this but most of all its the idea that you accepted that you want to move on, and thats strength. I think your absolutely right, I've been such an introvert that I began to accept that I was never gonna find someone better than her, and the truth is sooner or later, when reality hits, shes gonna realize that as understanding as I was, not everyone is going to be like that, and even if she doesn't, I think its time to burn the bridges.

[tlc232]

You are strong too!   You are here and soliciting input and thoughts and going through so much recently.   I am about 6 months away from things now.   I have a habit of putting on the armor plates over many events in life, so I think that helped.  I'm not recommending it, but it is my way to try to protect that soft part underneath.

The decision here is always what works for you ... .  what helps here is that there are many (as you read through more info) that have been through similar situations in one way or another.   We are great sounding boards to think things through.   Trust me -- I have my weaknesses every day.   I wake up and go ... .ugh... .my life isn't the same.  It's hard.  I am so alone!  There are things I miss that I'm sure many here do.   Personally, I think the companionship is the biggest hurdle for me.   Knowing someone is there ... .but then when I saw who was really there for me, well that led to speculation.   Plus, it was a big change after so many years.   But then I remember when I wake up that I hear the birds singing... .and quiet when normally it would be early morning ranting.   You have to take the little things to let "normal" back in. 

There are many long-time people here that will weigh in... .but I believe that another part of the mental illness is that they typically have someone else in the wings.   Normally not known to the other.  So they jump off your boat with an unsuspecting life raft waiting (sound familiar?).   The real strength is keeping your own boat afloat through it all. 

Whether you keep the connection or not, you will read and find what works best for you.   There is a lot to be said to "no contact" though --  sounds easy, but hard to do.   Thanks for helping me talk through it too!     

[Struggler123]

You are strong too!   You are here and soliciting input and thoughts and going through so much recently.   I am about 6 months away from things now.   I have a habit of putting on the armor plates over many events in life, so I think that helped.  I'm not recommending it, but it is my way to try to protect that soft part underneath.

The decision here is always what works for you ... .  what helps here is that there are many (as you read through more info) that have been through similar situations in one way or another.   We are great sounding boards to think things through.   Trust me -- I have my weaknesses every day.   I wake up and go ... .ugh... .my life isn't the same.  It's hard.  I am so alone!  There are things I miss that I'm sure many here do.   Personally, I think the companionship is the biggest hurdle for me.   Knowing someone is there ... .but then when I saw who was really there for me, well that led to speculation.   Plus, it was a big change after so many years.   But then I remember when I wake up that I hear the birds singing... .and quiet when normally it would be early morning ranting.   You have to take the little things to let "normal" back in. 

There are many long-time people here that will weigh in... .but I believe that another part of the mental illness is that they typically have someone else in the wings.   Normally not known to the other.  So they jump off your boat with an unsuspecting life raft waiting (sound familiar?).   The real strength is keeping your own boat afloat through it all. 

Whether you keep the connection or not, you will read and find what works best for you.   There is a lot to be said to "no contact" though --  sounds easy, but hard to do.   Thanks for helping me talk through it too!     

Thank you so much for your kind words. Your definitely right about everyone having their own ways to cope with things, and no one way is 100%. Honestly, I was always against the no contact thing because I felt like it gives the impression that you want to send a message and honestly I don’t I mean yes, I am upset but I’m not mad at her, but I just dont want to be reminded of everything in every conversation we have. I just feel like you dont talk to your friends about how intimate you were in the past or how you still love them. Its a lot to take in and just gets overwhelming. And I tend to get jealous, whenever she talks about the new guy and its a fresh wound, so ultimately I told her my goodbyes and gave her closure and now its been 6 days, I suppose it’ll be smooth ride from here on out. I really appreciate your input its helped a lot. Especially since you said the whole being alone and companionship, I remember she used to wake me up everyday and get so angry if i woke up late. And I remember telling her like what difference does it make if i just call you once im awake and shes like because I have to get my sleep too, and yes the attention is great, but the episodes where the person you thought loves you begins go hate you are not. I remember she gave me notes, and it really made me believe that she felt all those things for me, but it fades with time and I made a lot of mistakes too dont get me wrong, but there were certain things that shouldve been avoided had this been a normal relationship, I wouldve been angry for a day or two, but it wouldve been a mutual no contact.

[tlc232]

You will get honestly get to where you need to be in time --- keep reading and writing as it does help.   Lots to learn and lots of help with virtually any issue... .and definitely one day at a time!    Will be thinking positive thoughts for you! 

[Struggler123]

You will get honestly get to where you need to be in time --- keep reading and writing as it does help.   Lots to learn and lots of help with virtually any issue... .and definitely one day at a time!    Will be thinking positive thoughts for you! 

Thank you, I hope so and positive thoughts to you as well.

I apologize if this seems redunant but, there are a couple of questions that I keep overthinking, I’ve read practically everything about BPD but, I think I need someone else’s opinion.

1) Are all BPD’s prone to cheating and spending too much when they want to get feelings out of their system?

2) If I were to contact her and tell her how I feel about her, and tell her that I still want to be in a relationship with her,  but she has to let go of this other guy because I dont want to be caught in a web. Would that be a good idea?

3)Why are my feelings spiraling out of control, I was the one that didn’t want marriage but if I had known it would have hurt me like this I would have at least gotten engaged.

4) Is it possible that this new guy doesn’t exist and its just a plot to get me to cave in before shes in the same town as me, or she’s doing this so that I compete with the new guy and she can get a boost on her ego

5) Why is marriage so hard with someone with BPD?