I found out he cheated on me during our relationship (in June last year)

[blooming]

My ex contacted me this Saturday. It is the first time he contacted me since we broke up about 3.5 weeks ago. I did contact him once in the mean time because I found out he cheated on me during our relationship (in June last year) two weeks ago. When I asked him about it, he denied it. I didn't expect him to deny it that strongly, so I didn't really go against him. After that conversation I was really angry at myself because it really felt like I was letting him get away with it. He thought that I believed him. He had no idea of the hurt I was in. The fact that he denied it made it even worse, because it made me feel like I didn't mean anything to him.

So on Saturday he contacted me again. I didn't expect it to happen at all so I wasn't prepared at all. He asked me if I was going to a concert that's on next Sunday. I should have just immediately said that I didn't want any contact, but stupid as I am I for some reason couldn't get myself to do that. I'm extremely conflict avoiding. I'd rather put myself down then make the situation escalate into a fight. And I know he would probably not have reacted well if I said I didn't want any contact. So I reacted with saying that I unfortunately couldn't go to that concert because I was away for the weekend and asked him why he wanted to know. He replied by saying that he thought maybe we could have gone together because he wanted to go too. I was kind of shocked to hear that. Would he really want to try again? I find that hard to believe. Maybe he just wants to be friends? I have no idea. He was a bit annoyed that I couldn't make it and said I should get my priorities straight and that he thought I would go home earlier to be able to attend anyway. I said that really wasn't an option.

Then he asked me how I was doing, but I was on a day out with my brother so I didn't have a lot of internet and couldn't react for 4 hours or so. When I had connection again I saw he had sent another message "Is there a reason you're ignoring me for half the day?". This would have been the perfect moment to say something like "Yes, I just don't think it's a good idea to be in contact now." But oh no, I didn't. Reading that made my heart beat faster and put me in a kind of survival o-no-I-don't-want-him-angry mode, so I sent an apologising message saying noo there isn't I'm sorry I just didn't have internet connection I'm sorry. I hate myself for doing that. Making him think that he's in control again. I should be so angry at him. I should never want to speak to him again. Especially now that I know that he cheated on me and he denies it. It should have been the last drop.

I said I was doing okay and asked him how he was doing. He said he wasn't doing well at all, that he wasn't sleeping and that he had found out that day that his sister is depressed. I was really shocked to hear that. I know his sister too and she's such a sweet woman. I tried to comfort him best as I could. He then got back to the concert, saying "so you're really not coming?" and I said no and he said "ah sad, priorities, then I'll just go by myself. Have a nice weekend!" so I thought the conversation was over and said nice weekend to you too. But then he said that it was going to be less fun without me and that he thought I would've wanted to go. I said he could maybe ask someone else and that I just couldn't make it. He only replied by the next morning. He said he knew no one else to go with and compared it to another concert he went to by himself during our relationship, that I was missing a good concert again. He then went on saying that his mother was having an extremely hard time with his sister's depression, beause she was blaming herself (his parents went through a very difficult divorce, no one of the family is speaking to his father anymore, I think his father had borderline too, it fits really well). I tried to comfort him as best as I could again. After a few messages of that, he said that he was sorry for bothering me with this and that he hoped I still had a nice weekend. I said he wasn't bothering me but that I didn't really know how to help him and that it would maybe be better to discuss this with his friends and family. And that I had had a nice weekend. He said "I'm  sorry. I'll try" and "Good to hear that, talk to you later" and that was the end of the conversation.


I just hate myself for how it went. He now definitely thinks that I believe his lies about the cheating. He probably thinks he still has me in his power. Why can't I just be strong and stand up to myself and cut him off? And would he really be testing the waters for another recycle? I almost can't believe that.

Something I found quite odd too was that Saturday evening he said "I just had ice cream at my parents" and then the next day he said "My mother is really sad, so I have to go to my parents", but his parents live more than an hour travels from his place, so it wouldn't have made sense for him to go home Saturday evening and then back Sunday morning. And Saturday during the day he had cycled to his sister and back (his siter lives about half an hour from their parents). So it's just odd that he would cycle there and back and then take the train back to his parents, he could have better just taken the train from his sister to his parents. So I don't really understand that part. I think he maybe lied about being at his parents place Saturday evening? But why would he? He was messaging me the whole evening, so he couldn't really have been with another. Anyway, it's pprobably not important, just something I noticed.

[blooming]

My friends are annoyed with me too. Saying I made a really stupid mistake. That I'm being self-affacing. That I should have been stronger. That I gave in to him again. That I really shouldn't have done it. That he's an a$$hole and that I should break all contact with him and block him on all fronts. That it should be done now. That I'm giving him the idea again that I'll always be there waiting for him. That they don't understand me.

It really hurts

[Lucky Jim]

Hey blooming, Don't beat yourself up!  You declined to go to the concert with him, which is the bottom line.  Give yourself credit for staying strong.  If you keep it up, I'm sure he'll get the message.

LuckyJim

[blooming]

Hey blooming, Don't beat yourself up!  You declined to go to the concert with him, which is the bottom line.  Give yourself credit for staying strong.  If you keep it up, I'm sure he'll get the message.

LuckyJim

Well, I only declined because I really couldn't make it. I didn't say that I thought it wasn't a good idea or something. I just don't understand his intentions. I'm thinking of maybe sending him a message saying something like this:

Hey, about our conversation last weekend. I noticed that I find it too hard to be in contact with you in this way (and also to perhaps go to a concert with you). I need space and time to take distance. I hope you will understand and respect this and won't contact me again for the time being. I just can't do it now, I'm sorry. Best wishes to you and your family

Would that be a good idea? A part of me is reluctant in sending this message, because I think a part of me still wants to be in contact with him, even after all he did to me. But I know I really need to let him go.

[spero]

Hi there blooming,

How are you doing! I join Lucky Jim in responding to you about how you are feeling about yourself right now. I'd say this with kindness, don't beat yourself up. It's okay to have felt that you've made a mistake and be angry at yourself for allowing yourself to do so.

When I asked him about it, he denied it. I didn't expect him to deny it that strongly, so I didn't really go against him. After that conversation I was really angry at myself because it really felt like I was letting him get away with it. He thought that I believed him. He had no idea of the hurt I was in. The fact that he denied it made it even worse, because it made me feel like I didn't mean anything to him.

Blooming, unfortunately, your ex may not attach meaning especially towards people, in the way you and I relate to another person. This is truly heartbreaking but perhaps something i'll need to highlight, make no mistake that this is already a recycle. Any attempt to re-establish contact and have you respond back to him... .is a "recycle". It is just the level of severity to which the recycle entails.

Blooming, it seems that his text and conversations are hitting all your "soft" spots and your heart strings are being tugged.  From that position, i do believe that you're aware that you might need more time to detach before you can firmly engage in a conversation without being "affected". That is going to take time, blooming. There is alot of "empathy response" from your end toward his situation. Whether he is doing that intentionally, or unintentionally, be it conscious or sub-conscious, for any amount of reasons or justifications, it seems clear that it is affecting you.

Something else, dear blooming is that, by intentionally carrying on this conversation as it is now, as "harmless" and even without any "drama" sends him a message, that "while you have in raised something unacceptable, you're still allowing him contact to you, it just tells him "he can get away with it". It isn't going to benefit you that way, dear blooming. Unfortunately, you're not communicating that firmly to him that he understands why you've been hurt.

I just hate myself for how it went. He now definitely thinks that I believe his lies about the cheating. He probably thinks he still has me in his power. Why can't I just be strong and stand up to myself and cut him off? And would he really be testing the waters for another recycle? I almost can't believe that.

Well, as i've said blooming, its not that you believe in his lies. Unforunately, just by "engaging" in conversation further, he not only accepts that while you may not believe his version, you're not pursuing it further. That really is my concern for you at this time. This is already from what i've observed, a low level recycle for attention and connection, but more than that, i can see how much this is affecting you. Even after 3 weeks of NC, this is still pulling your heart strings deeply.

Stay strong, blooming, and like what Lucky Jim said, you've declined going to a concert with him. One step at a time, baby steps. You'll be fine and we're here to hear you out. Take good care.

Yours,
Spero.

[Lucky Jim]

Hello again, blooming, I suggest that you pause before sending that message.  Maybe put it on the back burner for a day or two and wait until the water clears.  I predict that the answer will come to you about how to respond, if at all.  For now, I suggest being patient with yourself, OK?

LJ

[Cromwell]

Hi again Blooming

Something I found quite odd too was that Saturday evening he said "I just had ice cream at my parents" and then the next day he said "My mother is really sad, so I have to go to my parents", but his parents live more than an hour travels from his place, so it wouldn't have made sense for him to go home Saturday evening and then back Sunday morning. And Saturday during the day he had cycled to his sister and back (his siter lives about half an hour from their parents). So it's just odd that he would cycle there and back and then take the train back to his parents, he could have better just taken the train from his sister to his parents. So I don't really understand that part. I think he maybe lied about being at his parents place Saturday evening? But why would he? He was messaging me the whole evening, so he couldn't really have been with another. Anyway, it's pprobably not important, just something I noticed.

You noticed it for a reason, why not take the opportunity to ask him?

Anyway, he has contacted you because he found himself back in a depressed rut momentarily, and also like I said in the other thread, he has engineered some time apart to not deal with the immediate anger or confrontation about the cheating rumors. Like you keep saying, this issue has been put on the back burner as if it never happened, and now its moving on to a bit of sweetness like wanting to go to a concert, again, about keeping you hooked in for meeting his needs. I lost how many times I counted your response to him that your not going, and he was still pressing it, someone who cant take no for an answer. what I dont understand is that you say here that you would have actually went with him, just that you couldnt, yet you didnt tell him this?

If you want advice here, from the way I look at it, you owe the guy nothing, he has cheated, lied and made you very upset. So what if he is depressed, let him languish in it, he wasnt depressed when he was cheating on you. How arrogant for him to tell you to get your priorities straight, when you told him you cant go. This is not someone who respects you, and I dont know why you would want to be with someone who you are afraid to make angry and cant speak your mind as a result. Just the same I cant figure out why I spent years doing the same.

I agree with your family and friends, they are not emotionally involved. I feel you havent really resolved what has happened already with the cheating and searching for some closure, he isnt going to give it to you and let you heal and move on from it, not by the sounds of the way he is trying to control and avoid responsibility for his actions.

Also try to avoid making assumptions too quickly based on the family painting the father as black, take all the evidence you gather with an objective and questioning mind, dont fall into the traps of believing a single thing that comes out any of their mouths. There will be a huge history there and there are always 2 sides to every story, who knows what the father might have had to put up with.

[blooming]

Hi there blooming,

How are you doing! I join Lucky Jim in responding to you about how you are feeling about yourself right now. I'd say this with kindness, don't beat yourself up. It's okay to have felt that you've made a mistake and be angry at yourself for allowing yourself to do so.

Blooming, unfortunately, your ex may not attach meaning especially towards people, in the way you and I relate to another person. This is truly heartbreaking but perhaps something i'll need to highlight, make no mistake that this is already a recycle. Any attempt to re-establish contact and have you respond back to him... .is a "recycle". It is just the level of severity to which the recycle entails.

Blooming, it seems that his text and conversations are hitting all your "soft" spots and your heart strings are being tugged.  From that position, i do believe that you're aware that you might need more time to detach before you can firmly engage in a conversation without being "affected". That is going to take time, blooming. There is alot of "empathy response" from your end toward his situation. Whether he is doing that intentionally, or unintentionally, be it conscious or sub-conscious, for any amount of reasons or justifications, it seems clear that it is affecting you.

Something else, dear blooming is that, by intentionally carrying on this conversation as it is now, as "harmless" and even without any "drama" sends him a message, that while you have in raised something unacceptable, you're still allowing him contact to you, it just tells him "he can get away with it". It isn't going to benefit you that way, dear blooming. Unfortunately, you're not communicating that firmly to him that he understands why you've been hurt.

Yes, you're totally right, that's exactly my problem. I don't want him to feel like he can just get away with it. Do you have any advice on how to communicate more firmly if/when he contacts me in the future?

Well, as i've said blooming, its not that you believe in his lies. Unforunately, just by "engaging" in conversation further, he not only accepts that while you may not believe his version, you're not pursuing it further. That really is my concern for you at this time. This is already from what i've observed, a low level recycle for attention and connection, but more than that, i can see how much this is affecting you. Even after 3 weeks of NC, this is still pulling your heart strings deeply.

Stay strong, blooming, and like what Lucky Jim said, you've declined going to a concert with him. One step at a time, baby steps. You'll be fine and we're here to hear you out. Take good care.

Yours,
Spero.

Thank you for your response Spero. I think I need to make an action plan for if he pursues further contact, because I need to be ready then and have a strong and clear response ready.

[blooming]

Hello again, blooming, I suggest that you pause before sending that message.  Maybe put it on the back burner for a day or two and wait until the water clears.  I predict that the answer will come to you about how to respond, if at all.  For now, I suggest being patient with yourself, OK?

LJ

Okay, I'll do that. I think I'll send a message like that if he contacts me again. Or do you disagree? Do you think the message isn't good?

[blooming]

Hi again Blooming

You noticed it for a reason, why not take the opportunity to ask him?

I actually did ask him, he just didn't reply to it. I don't know if that's because he didn't want to reply to it, or he just didn't find it important enough, because we were then talking about how his mother is blaming herself for his sister's depression, so he had more important things on his mind.

Anyway, he has contacted you because he found himself back in a depressed rut momentarily, and also like I said in the other thread, he has engineered some time apart to not deal with the immediate anger or confrontation about the cheating rumors. Like you keep saying, this issue has been put on the back burner as if it never happened, and now its moving on to a bit of sweetness like wanting to go to a concert, again, about keeping you hooked in for meeting his needs. I lost how many times I counted your response to him that your not going, and he was still pressing it, someone who cant take no for an answer. what I dont understand is that you say here that you would have actually went with him, just that you couldnt, yet you didnt tell him this?

What do you mean exactly? I said to him that it sounded like a good idea but that I couldn't make it. So I did kind of say to him that I would have gone with him if I hadn't been away for the weekend. I actually really don't understand why he kept on brining it up, asking if I really didn't want to go with him, because there was just no way I could have made it and he knew that.

A part of me would want to be able to go to the concert with him, as friends. But I know that I need more time apart before I can do anything like that. Now it would just bring up too many emotions and I'm not sure what his intentions would be, if he would want to go as friends or otherwise. When I first found out about the cheating I thought I never wanted to see him again, but I just can't be/stay angry at people, so I notice that I already pretty much forgave him, which is quite problematic.

If you want advice here, from the way I look at it, you owe the guy nothing, he has cheated, lied and made you very upset. So what if he is depressed, let him languish in it, he wasnt depressed when he was cheating on you. How arrogant for him to tell you to get your priorities straight, when you told him you cant go. This is not someone who respects you, and I dont know why you would want to be with someone who you are afraid to make angry and cant speak your mind as a result. Just the same I cant figure out why I spent years doing the same.

I agree with your family and friends, they are not emotionally involved. I feel you havent really resolved what has happened already with the cheating and searching for some closure, he isnt going to give it to you and let you heal and move on from it, not by the sounds of the way he is trying to control and avoid responsibility for his actions.

You're right, he didn't give me any closure on that front. He'll never give it to me. I need to think of what to do when he contacts me again. Do you have any advice?

Also try to avoid making assumptions too quickly based on the family painting the father as black, take all the evidence you gather with an objective and questioning mind, dont fall into the traps of believing a single thing that comes out any of their mouths. There will be a huge history there and there are always 2 sides to every story, who knows what the father might have had to put up with.

Hmmm I think it sounds to me very much that the father has botherline as well. He cheated on the mother for a long time and then left her for that woman, who he immediately married, but divorced (very dramatically) 2 years later. Since then he has on/off relationships all the time. He has thrown bricks through the window of the family, he has yelled at his children/the mother countless of times. He has told my ex that he wanted to commit suicide a lot of times. He always had very large opinions about my exes' girlfriends. My ex' sister went NC with her father pretty much straight after the divorce, my ex put up with him for a few years longer, but has been NC with his father for 5 years now. The mother always seemed like a very normal woman to me. She has had a happy relationshipp for 8 years now.

[MyBPD_friend]

Dear Blooming,

I'm very sorry that you're still struggling a lot with your ex and your emotions.
What you're going through is not easy, don't blame yourself for anything, you seem like a loving and caring woman, stay the way you are.

As many have already said, this is another recycle again.
If I could give any advise to you from my own BPD experience - stay strong.

Reacting in ANY way to his calls or text messages will eventually set you back and it will get harder, more depressing and confusing for you. I would suggest to completely stop any reaction to him, at some point he'll stop.

Last november I made a mistake after 6 months of no contact, a new phase of recycle followed and it was again heartbreaking. She sent me text messages that she wanted to see me, I declined.
A good phone call followed later and after that she went ST. By November, after 6 months I was doing pretty good before she contacted me.
To make it short, I went no contact with a final 'good bye' letter to her by mail. I told her I had a new number and was polite as possible, saying that I'm doing this FOR me and NOT against her.

I'm feeling a lot more free now and good.

And yes, I still think about her, but slowly emotions and thoughts will fade, it might take some more time and I'll never forget her.
BUT, I do not want any more recycle. I do not want to get hurt anymore, she is a pretty bad BPD and Cluster B woman, she is very ill and no one would be able ton help - except herself.

Keep in mind, a recycle is usually initiated by a BPD to own reasons, emptiness, depression and the need for attention, it's NOT really about you.

I wish you well from my heart.

[Lucky Jim]

Do you think the message isn't good?

Hello again, Blooming,  To me it's not about whether your message is good or bad; rather, I wonder whether it is helpful to engage by sending him a message if your goal is detachment?  Only you can figure out the answer to that question.   If you wait a day or two, I think you'll figure out the right response, if any, for you.

LJ

[blooming]

Hello again, Blooming,  To me it's not about whether your message is good or bad; rather, I wonder whether it is helpful to engage by sending him a message if your goal is detachment?  Only you can figure out the answer to that question.   If you wait a day or two, I think you'll figure out the right response, if any, for you.

LJ

You're right! That's why I decided on sending it (or something similar) if/when he contacts me again.

[blooming]

Dear Blooming,

I'm very sorry that you're still struggling a lot with your ex and your emotions.
What you're going through is not easy, don't blame yourself for anything, you seem like a loving and caring woman, stay the way you are.

As many have already said, this is another recycle again.
If I could give any advise to you from my own BPD experience - stay strong.

Reacting in ANY way to his calls or text messages will eventually set you back and it will get harder, more depressing and confusing for you. I would suggest to completely stop any reaction to him, at some point he'll stop.

Last november I made a mistake after 6 months of no contact, a new phase of recycle followed and it was again heartbreaking. She sent me text messages that she wanted to see me, I declined.
A good phone call followed later and after that she went ST. By November, after 6 months I was doing pretty good before she contacted me.
To make it short, I went no contact with a final 'good bye' letter to her by mail. I told her I had a new number and was polite as possible, saying that I'm doing this FOR me and NOT against her.

I'm feeling a lot more free now and good.

And yes, I still think about her, but slowly emotions and thoughts will fade, it might take some more time and I'll never forget her.
BUT, I do not want any more recycle. I do not want to get hurt anymore, she is a pretty bad BPD and Cluster B woman, she is very ill and no one would be able ton help - except herself.

Keep in mind, a recycle is usually initiated by a BPD to own reasons, emptiness, depression and the need for attention, it's NOT really about you.

I wish you well from my heart.

It's just that I'm scared for his reaction when I don't react. He'll probably become angry and say very hurtful things that will be very hard for me to hear.

The last few days my mind keeps cycling around all the times I know he has lied to me and all the times he has probably lied to me.

- He said to me that he only had one drink with one of his exes when she came back from the USA, while I know that he had sex with her on a regular basis for a year, cheating on his then girlfriend with her

 - He said to me he only had one date with a girl of which I know he dated for over half a year with (this was at the same time as when he was having sex with that ex and also dating another girl for a few months)

- He said to me he didn't cheat on me, but he did

- He said he had only cheated once in his life (it's at least 3 times, probably waaay more)

These are the biggest ones. He has probably lied about a lot more. For example, when we were apart he was seen kissing a girl and going home with her at a party. While he said to me that he wasn't interested in any other girls and he didn't have the energy for any of that. When I asked him about it he said they only kissed that one time and nothing else had happened. I'm almost certain he lied about that. He probably dated with her for a few weeks while we were in NC. Other things he probably lied about are all the negative stories he told me about his exes. He doesn't know I know all this of course. But it's just a mess in my head. All these thoughts.