Just biding my time

[12years]

Well, it seems things are agreed upon, as in, we are going to separate (our household, marriage), but, he doesn't do anything about it. Not surprising. I wouldn't either if I had the big master bedroom. I am like Rapunzel and I am in the tower in the upstairs guest bedroom. But, I much like being upstairs with the kids and it's quieter. In any case does a person with BPD make any decisions? How can he not be lonely and understanding that I am physically don't want to be near him for fear of a fight. And I really don't feel at all that I want to be intimate or ever could be again! How normal is this to be so disgusted with the other person and how they've treated you that you don't get any pleasure from the relationship? Though I know how to handle him and fights now with many tools I have learned, I can't get a night's rest with a big growling bear who may ruin my night or good mood so I choose to be upstairs. But sometimes the storm comes and you can see it coming swirling around! You try to stop it, but, then it's like being in a blender, you are all shaken up and can't walk straight. You are curious at to what they will say and you know they are BPD but you can't say it! You know how the conversation will progress with you being at fault. Of course.
So, how many other people sleep in separate rooms? I know this is really telling me something but I am biding my time until I can really put the ball in motion to separate/divorce. Though it seems evident to me he knows this will happen and has discussed leaving on several occasions. Do BPD's ever follow through? Can you ever trust them? This is a huge issue, separating, and instead of fighting about it, we should speak logically about it. But, I really don't believe or trust anything he does. It seems on such a major thing he would understand he should not say he's going to move out and then not. Or threaten with thoughts about that I don't have a job or won't have health insurance when we separate. Is there always so much threatening with other BPDs? I just don't believe anything he says. I know I will need a job and insurance but how nasty is this to bring it up. He also has NPD traits as well. I really think I have made the point I don't want to continue and it just doesn't get through. I am right now biding time until Fall when kids are back in school and I can work on getting a job. But, this "just tolerating it" time is so lonely for me and I feel like my life is ticking away. I really don't trust anything he says because he hardly ever does it. Even if it's watching the kids while I go to a class. He barely shows up in time for me to go to the class. I just don't see any accountability besides the paycheck he gets. I would have gone back to work sooner but to advance his career moved the whole family to Germany. I can ask anything, like can you take out the trash and you don't know if it's going to get done or there is going to be a fight about it? Are BPDs this sensitive? How is fighting a way to interact with someone who usually supposedly care about, but there is no part of the relationship left? Why is this what is done? I have to get out, but, it all seems so surreal. Especially when he goes on business trips, which there are many! thank goodness! when he isn't here, everything is great! I am great! I count the days until he has to go again! I have a plan, but, I just know it/he will get worse and there will be no accountability on his part. It will be all my fault that our marriage was ruined. How many times can you finish the conversation and you be the one who is blamed for it? I really try not to argue back. How do you talk to a person who doesn't really know you are there? I try to understand and use the tools, but I just see a shell of a person that he is. Or maybe that just how I view him.
How do I get through this biding my time? We tried everything! It's been almost 2 years of this. He goes to a counselor but it's like pulling teeth to find out when he is going again. Is everything like pulling teeth? And it's all so uncomfortable, for me, for him and the kids know it and feel uncomfortable too. I really just pray, entertain myself, stay out of the way, avoid the house on weekends, though I basically come up with legitimate things to do to be out. And it's so awkward, his parents visit and I see him escalating. It was not fun and I had tools to deal with it. But, then he doesn't remember and thought the whole visit went fine! This memory loss, I guess this is common? I highly recommended his family not visit. And I suggested I go to a hotel, but, then I didn't. So my loss there. How do I get through this time? When you know it's going to end, you have lost all hope for the relationship? Don't trust the BPD? And you know the separation period will be really hard? But a relief! Anything you can provide would be helpful to you all. I really can't believe this is still going on. This is a bit of rambling, but hopefully you can make sense of it.

[juju2]

 Hi, welcome.   You are in the right place.  So sorry to hear what you are going thru.


Any place that you can get help, go to counseling?  Do you have a closed mouth friend who will listen and not give advice... .that's important, because no one knows my path.  I need to be able to vent without someone trying to solve my problems, they know nothing about... .

Share more here.   Is he diagnosed.   There is a lot to learn, i am separated, it wasnt the answer I thought it would be!  After three weeks I begged him to come back, he said he couldn't, and here we are a year later, I don't know if we will get back together... .

The biggest thing for me is looking at my part.  It's so easy to point my finger at him.  It looked like it was all his fault too... .

When he left, my life got worse.  I miss him.

If only I had looked at my part then.  I am getting healthy, am taking classes after work, going to do stuff w friends.  It sounds like you are doing things for yourself.   

There are tools here to stop making things worse.
Read, learn, post more.   This is a caring place.

Best,  j

[Red5]

How can he not be lonely and understanding that I am physically don't want to be near him for fear of a fight.

And I really don't feel at all that I want to be intimate or ever could be again!

How normal is this to be so disgusted with the other person and how they've treated you that you don't get any pleasure from the relationship?

Though I know how to handle him and fights now with many tools I have learned, I can't get a night's rest with a big growling bear who may ruin my night or good mood so I choose to be upstairs.

But sometimes the storm comes and you can see it coming swirling around! You try to stop it, but, then it's like being in a blender, you are all shaken up and can't walk straight.

You are curious at to what they will say and you know they are BPD but you can't say it! You know how the conversation will progress with you being at fault. Of course.

How do you talk to a person who doesn't really know you are there? I try to understand and use the tools, but I just see a shell of a person that he is. Or maybe that just how I view him.

Good Morning 12 Years,

I can certainly relate to what you have written, in my own r/s; I have noted the times and events over the years that have slowly added up, and I reached, and then passed on by my own breaking point.

So much is gone now, much has been destroyed ie’ emotionally in the r/s.

My own u/BPDw has said and done so much to me that I do not think I will ever be in the r/s whom I thought I was to her… meaning possibly, that I was never that person to her to begin with, and she certainly was not who I thought she was initially, the person I thought I was falling in love with (mirroring).

This BPD phenomena… it steals everything away it seems, maybe it was never there to begin with, as I am (beginning to) learning more and more about it.

Tools, like any tool, these tools seem to wear out over time, I use the word exhausting quite a lot now.

Also, I more and more relate too, and describe myself with the term “caretaker”.

Seems I have the routines down pat now, I can feel it (BPD) rear its head, I see the dynamics, I see the “storm” coming, I know what to do, and what not to do, but it still hurts, it still angers me, even when I somehow manage to steer her away to a degree, it’s like I am dealing with a petulant teenager, as that is what she becomes, as I believe she is emotionally delayed; damaged, due to trauma (childhood), that has caused the BPD in the first place.

I too very much value my alone time, to recharge, to let my emotions cool off, to reset my mind… she used to work, had a career, she also traveled, which was a good thing, so I can certainly relate to that as well.

Sending good karma, and thoughts your way 12 Years, you are not alone here.

Red5

[Enabler]

Hey 12 years,

I was asked to leave the family house even though it was she whom was having an emotional affair. I returned 3m later much to her displeasure. Over a year ago she said she was going to petition for divorce and has only just done so. If she wants this, she can get it. Despite having full understanding of the potential for further pain if we stay together, that is my desire and I would make it work, regardless of whether or not she entered into any kind of treatment plan... .or had any cognition of her behaviours.

Like you I feel my life is ebbing away in this current period of stalemate or glacially slow movement towards divorce... .or not. Lost opportunities such as holidays with the kids, inability to buy simple things like furniture for the kids bedrooms through uncertainty about what type of home they might live in. Unwillingness to change cars because I may need the money to buy a new house and big ticket items would be frowned upon in the divorce process. Everything stops. She maintains a constant state of chaos.

Regarding the trust. Brene Brown does a good dissection of what constitutes trust. One of the elements of her BRAVING is doing what you say you’re going to do. N example... .in Nov17 we went to legal mediation, the wording for the divorce petition was decided by her. She was given instruction on how to apply. In Dec17 she gave a date in Jan when we were going to tell the kids... .she finally did the divorce petition in end of Mar18 and she went to the horse races with friends instead of telling the kids... .

I feel your anguish and have no idea how trust will ever be built between us if we ever reconcile, which looks unlikely.

Xx

[12years]

Thank you so much Juju2, Red5 and Enabler,
Every time I post on here I don't feel alone anymore! It's amazing how similar our stories, feelings are! I have gone to counseling for over 2 years. I had a great therapist in Germany who if I had still been with her she we have us divorced. They strongly believe that adults should act adult and if someone is not accountable and treats you poorly you should get out. My therapist here helps so very much as well. I have come up with this plan to get employment and then extract myself. I don't think I will miss him. The mourning was done a long time ago. I have thoughts often of things that happened between us in the past that just "weren't normal". And situations that were very out of control and odd. But, I didn't know any better, hadn't searched for answers, or felt that something was "off" that I had to search for some reason for the fighting and confusion on his part and mine. And now since it's like he's not there, or ever was, it makes it easier. But sad in that how did I not see this earlier? How can he/we be fooling the rest of the world? I guess I made it normal. Perfect wife, perfect kids, perfect facebook, perfect appearance to outside world. That in itself makes it so surreal. But the reality is that it hurts. Still does. Though you know coping techniques and tools, the BPD is hurt and takes it out on you. And can't change. To understand you may have changed and don't want to be treated like a punching bag or for them to understand their behavior hurts you. My heart has been broken and most likely can't be fixed. But, everyone is going to blame me. Especially his family. But, I see his family as shallow too, they are in part why he is how he is. I see my son acting out and over the summer I am taking him to counseling. It's not just pre-teen angst. This should have been done with my husband instead of ignored. Having fits and being erratic all the time or some of the time shouldn't be ignored. He does not have a good relationship with his brother who has called him "mentally unbalanced." I have not ever talked to his brother, only his sister, and just mentioned my husband was angry and going to get counseling and we were going to counseling. None of them really care though. I called internationally to his mother to express my concern and she just said "he's a good provider." Right. So  yelling at your spouse is ok. Not it's not! She put up with some yelling it sounds like but I believe she may also have a disorder. I can't go visit them anymore in LA because that is just a big charade. The parents just ignore. So, I made a decision much like the others to not go on the family visit to visit the relatives in LA. This decision has made me stronger. I also don't go on family trips, he is taking the kids on a trip, and I suggested fewer nights because he gets cranky with them, but, he is going to do it. But that is how the tragectory is. It's going separate in so many ways.
It's time to face up. Separate beds, separate trips, separate hobbies and friends.
I guess I have to be the one to do it. It will be better for everyone all around. I just need the strength to do it. I have a lawyer lined up and money for the divorce. Since I feel disgusted, mad and generally just exasperated by his actions which seem to be the same and nothing learned to calm himself the storms still happen. And worse now they are not remembered. How about 5 diaries that have all these years of episodes? Yes, I have them and started writing about them a long time ago to sort it out. But, how does this shallow shell of a person ever get better? I hope so for his kids sake. But again, he has not told me of his next appointment with his therapist though he promises... .promises and trust broken again and again. You would think I would get it?  I am so lonely in more ways than one but if you don't feel anything but resentment that they aren't trying to change or ever go again to a therapist, and don't feel affection as they will just twist it around, you feel the person they were isn't there. Or if you give in it's a sign of weakness because you have been so strong to get him to therapy to understand he has a way of seeing the world that is different, not from me, but that is detrimental to his relationships. The loneliness is huge. I feel appalled and disgusted and not at all attracted to him. I haven't been for a long time and when we had sex I felt sad and angry and upset. I know a BPD values this as a part of a relationship. He is not getting this, I thought this would wake him up too. I guess it's all just gone down hill. And I don't think it can go back. Or my feelings can go back. How do I get through this biding my time?

[Enabler]

That version of reality works for him, it's not so painful for him and he gets what he needs... .it's his normal. I've been reading up about Cognitive Dissonance, we all do it to a certain extent and it helps us deal with the bad feelings of things we have done to other people. If you have spent a long time doing things to hurt other people I guess you have 2 choices, feel the agony of the guilt, or mentally justify it to yourself... .consciously or sub-consciously such that you feel minimal guilt. Since pwBPD tend to have a guilt and shame phobia the latter tends to be the typical route... .emotional scar tissue I guess.

What would it take to get any feelings back for your H? What would accountability look like?

Enabler

P.S. Divorce Petition came through from W today, I've signed and returned, ball is back in her court. 

[12years]

Thank you, Enabler.

I appreciate you writing back. It seems we have similar thoughts/views. And thank you for saying "that's how he sees it." I just don't know how they live with themselves. But, that's how a normal person would view it with compassion and empathy.

So did you start the divorce proceedings or did she? Is seemed as though she was avoiding it as she went to the horse races but, I was wondering who started? Are you living separately?

I have already read the book Splitting regarding Divorcing a person with BPD or NPD. It was quite helpful though I am not to that stage yet. https://www.amazon.com/Splitting-Protecting-Borderline-Narcissistic-Personality/dp/1608820254/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525445232&sr=8-1&keywords=books+splitting.

Thanks again for writing.

[Enabler]

It's all been her, she's literally been driving the family fun bus off the cliff for 2 years since she met "her soul mate"... .another chap in the church whom she claimed to be having a spiritual awakening with. Laughable... .but laughable that I would consider continuing the relationship and rebuilding... .but that's what I believe is best for everyone. But, it takes two people to want to rebuild and she has no interest in entertaining that.

[12years]

Enabler,
Ah Ok! Well you will feel better once it's all settled. It's interesting how she being the BPD wants to get out and not keep on the same path of hurting you. She can play her tricks on someone else. But, I do understand your angst regarding the relationship wanted to somehow get it back. And messing up the family. I wanted to by my own will hold it together and make him better, but, I almost am like a dog whose been beaten too much and cringe at the thought of spending time. And, since those feelings have come about I feel I can't come around again. There was hope then extreme anger and sadness but now I just feel fear though I do know how to not argue back, etc. but sometimes they get you when you are down. Being on edge and "on" all the time has taken it's toll on me. I want calm. And I think my heart broke and can't be put back after 2 years of trying. Well, more 12 years of being his therapist, being the perfect daughter in law, sister in law, advising.
I am sorry to hear she's found another chap. It seems though alot of BPDs move on quickly but it's going to be a shallow relationship. Since you aren't giving her what she needs in way of being her emotional outlet when she's angry or upset.
You did try counseling together? How about for yourself? I have been going for 2 years or so and it helps a GREAT deal. I also listened to Ashley Berges on you tube she has specific radio show she did on BPDs. Really good stuff. Then you don't think you are the one who is nuts.  :-)

It will be good for you to break from her, it's been hard. Of course you will feel sad and miss the good times. But, it's better for everyone especially the kids without this negative energy. I want my kids to know what it's like to see a happy mommy and not be caught up in what he will do next, though, I really just avoid and am biding my time. I would be interested to hear what obstacles you come about in the proceedings. Again that SPLITTING book will help you, so it won't be all your fault. :-)

You are still at the family home? 

Again, thanks for writing back. I hope I may be giving you some advice too. It's hard to focus on your situation too long and I know I have learned things that will help others. I really hope I make it through this. I hope without too much PTSD. Ugh!

[12years]

Yeek! Sorry so many typos. I generally take a long time to write. But, it has been nice getting a few responses rapidly. :-)

[Enabler]

I am still in the family home. I did move out for a bit but what seemed to be happening was that matey boy other man was just able to encroach more and more and get his hooks into her, so I moved back in at the beginning of 2017... .that was abusive as well apparently! The thing is I had been told for years and years that I had an anger problem, which to a certain extent I did... .but really how many times can you kick a dog in the head before it bites your foot. There was/is only room in our relationship for one persons emotions (my W) so any period where I needed emotional support she fled into the arms of the pub or in this case another man. I needed emotional support because my father died in 2015 (this has been going on since early 2016 with other man).

You are right that typically pwBPD don’t want you to leave, however, they have less of an issue leaving you, in fact they seem to prefer that. An example might be my D9, she will happily leave us to go to a sleepover, but you try leaving her and going out for an evening... .all hell breaks loose. In this case the other man is my replacement, as far as she is concerned he is a better emotional fit and will meet her never ending list of emotional and practical needs (ironically his current stbxw also has a never ending list of emotional and economic needs which is the cause of their divorce... .as is his relationship with my w). She has certainly strung out the process and I am sure the coming emotional hurdles such as telling the kids, selling the house and moving will also prove distressing for her... .and not in a mean way I shall not be doing any of the heavy lifting for her. She will take ownership of the decision especially in respects of telling the kids. This is not about blame but it’s is something that should be owned and it is definitely something she needs to take responsibility for.

She is trying to go down the amicable divorce route which no doubt feels like the least emotionally painful one... .but realistically, to do that she needs to be able to have the emotional stamina to be honest. Honest about her new job, honest about her intentions with the other man and honest and open about access to the kids. We need to be cooperative with each other and she needs to be able to work with me to resolve issues head on. I fear she won’t have this stamina nor will she have the ability to agree and commit to her word and agreement on actions. This has already been proven with the horse racing incident.

I will have my ducks lined up and wait for her to be the victim... .again. I sense doubt in her actions as she does not act with courage, she acts with anger, anger generated by delusion to drive her forwards... .think horribly, feel horribly, move forwards in anger. This is not how things are achieved in an adult way. This is like hitting yourself in the face before going into battle! If this was so right, so moral, so what god wanted, then why the need to do that?

My advice is to lose the anger. Radically accept where you’re at, make a plan to make it better for you and the kids whether that be with him or without him. Your anger will only destroy you... .he’s kinda comfortable with you being angry.

[Red5]

12years, don’t have but a few moments here, if you found Ashley Burges YouTube helpful, you should also check out Kris Godinez “we need to talk” YouTube channel, very very insightful also, keep posting; we are al here following; will write more as time provides... .today was my day to feel the BPD, here we go again, part and parcel they say, today I sad to myself, .I can abide a while longer, even though my “end” was reached long ago, .and what is gone is gone, willfully or else unwittingly destroyed, but I will no longer rebuild, repair, replace... .

Hang in there 12years, the similarities are indeed uncanny!

Red5